lorin schultz

randominternetperson said:

lorin schultz said:

randominternetperson said:

neilm said:

ap1971 said:

Quick question. I need a Macbook Pro without Touch Bar.  Is any model available now? 

"Need"?

No, other than maybe old stock in the retail chain, or possibly a refurb — either of which would mean settling for the old keyboard. Not a good idea. 

Other than price, there's no obvious reason to prefer the non-TB version of the MBP. If you don't like the TB, just ignore it. It's not in the way. And with the TB you get the fingerprint reader, which is well worthwhile, and with this new MBP the physical ESC key has now been restored, which matters to some people.

Maybe he spends all his time emulating a VT-220 terminal and is addicted to those physical F-keys.  I'm sure there are 2 or 3 users out there with that use case.  Yes, Apple has "abandoned" those (niche) users.  Oh well.

As someone else mentioned, it's common for production software to make extensive use of the function keys. My bread-winner app, Pro Tools, uses them for switching editing modes, something I do almost as often as hitting "play." Not having them would significantly impact my workflow and productivity.

Have you actually tested this hypothesis?  Have you tried working with one for a few days and seeing if your muscle memory doesn't solve the (potential) problem?

Personally, I like the touch bar and prefer it for things like changing volume and brightness.  The only things I used the physical keys for were for those actions (which are better done with a slider than key presses).  But I suppose I'm not "pro" enough.

If you didn't use the old F keys constantly for a primary function of your software, it's not surprising that you wouldn't miss them. I suspect spending an afternoon editing in Pro Tools would give you a different perspective. You'll be hitting an F key every few seconds.

To answer your question, yes, for a while I tried to work with just the laptop's keys, Touch Bar, and the mouse. It's certainly possible, but it's comparatively cumbersome and much slower. I TOTALLY understand your point about muscle memory, but in this case there really is a difference in efficiency. I now just carry a full-size keyboard with me. I'd prefer not to, though.

cgWerks said:

I can understand that all developers aren't going to want to go through the App Store, so if this is a move towards that, I get the concern. But, why not want to sign an app?

One reason may be the specific coding structure Apple requires for approval. It’s not just a case of submitting an app for Notarization, the app has to meet a bunch of conditions relating to how it’s written. Depending on how an app was developed, meeting those requirements may involve a lot of work.

Another reason may be that an app does something that Apple will never approve, no matter how it’s coded. MakeMKV comes to mind as a possible example. It converts Blu-Ray discs to MKV files. Apple is probably not going to provide its blessing to an app like that, so Notarization may not be an option.

fastasleep said:

lorin schultz said:

fastasleep said:

lorin schultz said:

StrangeDays said:

MplsP said:

StrangeDays said:

GeorgeBMac said:

I get it why they designed it this way.   But, essentially, it makes it a $2K+ disposable computer (it can't be upgraded and it can't be repaired) and that just goes against my grain.  I think I would have to carefully balance the benefits of the computer (and specifically how they would benefit me) and weigh that against the limited repair and upgradeability.

On the other hand, these are aimed at the truly "pro" market -- meaning not just power users but those who make their living with these machines.  So, for them, if it breaks they will be more inclined to treat it like any other piece of equipment and replace it.

Non-user-upgradable doesn’t mean “disposable”. It means you can’t upgrade it. It surely can be serviced if the need should arise. You can also resell it, as well as recycle it. Just like an iPad or even a car, neither of which most consumers ever perform repairs themselves on. 

It’s like complaining that your TV is “disposable”, despite having an expected lifespan of many, many years, and TV repair still being a thing. (I’ve had my expensive, non-user-serviceable plasma for almost a decade.)

That being said, despite being in IT I don’t know anyone, pro or consumer, who repairs their own laptops, TVs, or even cars (other than brakes or oil which isn’t really repair). Apple doesn’t design its products for DIY tinkerers. 

That's a bit of a self fulfilling prophecy - if something is made incredibly difficult to repair, you won't repair it.

I have to agree with wizard and bobolicious - components which get a lot of wear and/or are likely to need replacing, should be made so it's at least easier to do so. Take the keyboard - it's a mechanical component that's exposed to the environment and gets a ton of use. Even if the new design is more reliable as hoped it's still going to be one of the higher failure items. Is there any real reason they couldn't have fastened it with screws?

Apple also touts its environmental record, but one of the best ways to reduce environmental costs of products is maximize their life span. A design that prevents repairs goes against that. A modular design would be really nice, but modularity costs space, so that's a compromise that gets made in the name of size, but they've gotten to the point that they might as well just encase the entire thing in epoxy.

Concentrate real hard folks....MBPs are serviceable. They don’t need to be upgradable, or user-serviceable, for this to be true. I’ve had mine serviced before...sacre bleu!

Me too, and was shocked to the point of almost crapping myself at the cost!

Replacing the keyboard in my 2016 15” was almost $500! For a KEYBOARD.

It may be possible to repair a MacBook Pro but it sure ain’t practical.

Did you ask for a refund after they implemented the keyboard replacement program? You can probably get your money back. 

I didn’t have to pay but the invoice still shows what it would cost me today now that my AppleCare coverage has expired. The repair involves replacing the entire layer of the computer, including case component, batteries, keyboard, and trackpad. That adds up to a lotta dough.

A bad RAM chip will cost $815 (replace logic board).

The design of these boxes makes repairs really, really expensive.

For all the repairs that were not covered in full in the last decade or more, I think the few that weren't were all covered under the flat repair program which was like $310 for a MBP. In a couple cases, that included other items I didn't even request to be repaired. One repair got me a new logic board, new top case, new display, new hard drive, new RAM (even tho I tossed that and put my old RAM in). $310! That would've been wayyyyy more on a component-based repair. Seriously, always try to get the flat rate whenever possible and mention everything you know might be flawed. It gets shipped off, everything possible fixed, and back in a couple days. It's amazing. BEST SERVICE EVER.

That would be awesome, but I don't know where you'll find a $310 repair for a MBP now. Mine cost substantially more.

I reported three faults:

- Bad butterfly keyboard
- display discolouration
- loose USB-C connector

$519 Top case (had to replace the entire assembly just for a failed keyboard).

$973 Logic board

$782 Display assembly

$109 flat rate labour. That amount applies whether they replace one component or several. On the occasion described above it was $109 for multiple items. The next time the same $109 labour rate was applied for replacing a single component. So, $109 every time they service the machine, on top of the flat-rate component cost(s).

There were also costs for a couple IO boards and a heatsink, bringing the total bill to CAD$2445.00.

All those prices are in Canadian dollars, so three-quarters of those amounts in US dollars.

In my opinion that's freakin' insane and demonstrates a serious downside to Apple's current assembly methods.

sflocal said:

DAalseth said:

This covers an interesting arc. Adobe went from an ambitious upstart trying to unseat an established, albeit arrogant, standard, to becoming the arrogant standard.

Right now I do whatever I can to avoid using Adobe software. The final straw was when they went to overpriced rental software that forced updates whether you wanted them or not. They are just abusive and arrogant and overpriced. Fortunately I don't HAVE to use it for my work so I have the option. More and more though, I hear from my friends that DO use it that they are looking at alternatives or at least wish they could use alternatives. And alternatives ARE out there. The unrest is growing. Soon options will appear and Adobe is going to be unseated.

I'm Betting On AFFINITY

I remember the years of paying over $1,500 for whatever version of photoshop, only to upgrade a few years later like clockwork.

Now I pay $10/mo for PS AND Lightroom.  It would take 10+ years to pay that for one version of PS I paid years ago.  

Not sure what math you’re using, but it’s a bargain compared to what I was paying.  Sure, they’re arrogant, but what company isn’t? 

The economics of going with Adobe was just better than going with a small player that I’m not sure would be around in a few years.

That $10 per month gets you Photoshop, not InDesign. Neither does it include Illustrator, which some may argue is as essential to the print production chain as Photoshop.

The cost for what’s described in the article is $53 per month for a freelancer or $80 per month for a shop. Compare that to what the Master Collection used to cost and it’s comparable. Compared to the old Print Collection it works out to more.

It used to be possible to manage cost somewhat by selecting a package with only the apps you needed. Now your choices are only Photoshop/Lightroom or everything they produce. You can, obviously, still subscribe to individual apps, but the cost saving is gone.

Mike Wuerthele said:

DuhSesame said:

Mike Wuerthele said:

DuhSesame said:

MplsP said:

DuhSesame said:

MplsP said:

Interesting article. One thing I noticed when looking at the new 13" MBPs was how well they perform. Like indiekiduk said, they bench well above what you'd expect just by looking at the clock speed.

I just read the article by Andrew O'Hara who had to send his MBP in for repair due to the ports and graphics chip failing. One of the things I wonder was whether the graphics chips were inadequately cooled, causing early failure. It sounds like he routinely connected to an external monitor, so they were likely worked harder than if they had just been running the laptop screen and I don't know if the graphics chips have any thermal throttling mechanism like processors do.

Which one?

https://appleinsider.com/articles/19/07/15/i-replaced-my-mac-with-my-ipad-pro-for-a-week----heres-how-it-went

Well, he didn’t say anything else, but the port is loose.

Second paragraph, FTA: "The graphics chip was failing, making external monitors unusable and video editing a chore. My USB-C ports had become loose —cables would physically disconnect randomly. And the keyboard alternated between typing no spaces to typing superfluous characters."

I was referring to “graphics chip was failing”.  We didn’t know what caused it.

Yeah, no idea. 

That said, there's been other claims here of premature failing of the machine. It's a 2016 15-inch MBP. While I appreciate what people want, and how long machines can live, nearly three years in of heavy use can't really be considered a premature failure.

Point of comparison:

My 2016 15” MacBook Pro went in for service at 2.5 years old. The faults were:

1. The keyboard. In addition to the typical, ostensibly debris related issues, two commonly used keys were worn out. They could be made to work by pressing the edge of the key at an angle, but not with normal typing.

2. The USB-C ports had become so loose that drives would disconnect with the slightest bump.

3. The screen was discoloured. A large area had a faint blue haze. I don’t know if that’s similar to Andrew’s graphics issue, but I suspect not as this was evident only on the device screen (not external monitors) and didn’t change over the course of a day. It was there on power up and looked the same at the end of the day as the beginning.

4. The Apple Genius who evaluated the machine for intake determined that it needed a new logic board. He didn’t say why and I forgot to ask.

The last issue resulted in having to have it repaired twice, as they installed the wrong logic board the first time. When I got it home I discovered it had a slower CPU, lower spec GPU, and only 512GB of storage instead of 2TB.