ihatescreennames

gatorguy said:

ihatescreennames said:

gatorguy said:

ihatescreennames said:

gatorguy said:

AppleInsider said:

So it appears for now that using RCS to send messages between iPhones and Android is not encrypted. That also means that if any iMessage group has even one Android member in it, the group's conversation can potentially be read.

The same is true for an Android owner. If just one iPhone user is part of the Google Messages conversation then the entire group may be compromised.

 This is the number one reason that Apple should be aggressively involved in closing up their end of RCS. It makes everyone's messaging vulnerable as long as they don't, even those messages between iPhone owners that can't be sent with iMessage for varying reasons.

The same can be said for people using Android phones that don’t support RCS. Google should be aggressively encouraging them to update to modern OS, it makes everyone’s messaging vulnerable as long as they aren’t. 

Of course, iMessages have been encrypted from the start, so even if I send a iMessage to a person using an iPhone 4 it will be encrypted. 

Recent data shows the percentage of Android users already actively using RCS messaging is estimated to be around 70-80% in regions with widespread carrier support. With Samsung now committed to using Google Messages with E2EE as well, those numbers will be going even higher. If someone has a fairly recent Android device, RCS is enabled by default. 

Based on my contacts alone that seems reasonable. I’d say about 20% of my Android contacts don’t support RCS. Google clearly still has work to do there. On the other hand, 100% of my iPhone contacts support iMessage.

It's doubtful that 100% of your contacts support iMessage.

As long as every message is from a fellow iPhone owner and remains within iMessage, yup 100% support it. That's one of the things I like about my iPhone. But things are never constant, and like with iMessage, 100% of my Android contacts have RCS support with Google Messages, though there are some who choose to use other messaging apps instead, same as some iPhone owners who by choice don't use iMessage. 

But I think you're missing the point entirely, just ignoring it.

If every person you want to contact has only an iPhone then iMessage is all you need. I have both Android and iPhone owning friends, and I'd wager you do too. The only reason my conversations between all of us can't be private and secure is primarily Apple's fault. Were it not for lack of encryption we'd be good. Google Messages is not lacking in privacy, security and for the most part, features. 

None of the Android phone owners you know will ever have iMessage, Apple won't allow it, so that's not an option for a huge percentage of smartphone users. But as soon as Apple catches up we can all communicate securely anyway, iMessage or not. 

Just to be clear, I said 100% of my iPhone contacts, that’s opposed to my Android contacts. 

It’s great that 100% of your Android contacts have RCS support, but several of mine do not, and by your own statistic of 70-80% RCS penetration you are probably an outlier here. So, if one of my no-RCS Android users were in a group chat with only other Android users there would be no E2EE (why do we use a “2”?!) in their chat.

You seem to be saying all messages between iPhone and Android users would be E2EE if only Apple would get on board, but that clearly isn’t the case since not all Android users have phones that support RCS. Even if Apple rolled out an update to iOS tomorrow that fully supported E2EE RCS there would still be Android users out there that either don’t or can’t support it.

Here’s another thing, if there’s still a reasonably large chance that sending a message to an Android user won’t be able to use RCS then why should Apple rush to offer it? Apple knows that all messages sent using iMessage are encrypted, as do many iMessage users, and all messages sent to an Android user are not encrypted. If they enable encrypted RCS now there’s still not much of a guarantee that the message will be able to be sent encrypted. That’s adding potential confusion to the process. Once Android gets to something much closer to 100% coverage than the current possibly 70% coverage then I’d expect Apple to offer it. Right now, not so much. (I mean, obviously)

gatorguy said:

ihatescreennames said:

gatorguy said:

AppleInsider said:

So it appears for now that using RCS to send messages between iPhones and Android is not encrypted. That also means that if any iMessage group has even one Android member in it, the group's conversation can potentially be read.

The same is true for an Android owner. If just one iPhone user is part of the Google Messages conversation then the entire group may be compromised.

 This is the number one reason that Apple should be aggressively involved in closing up their end of RCS. It makes everyone's messaging vulnerable as long as they don't, even those messages between iPhone owners that can't be sent with iMessage for varying reasons.

The same can be said for people using Android phones that don’t support RCS. Google should be aggressively encouraging them to update to modern OS, it makes everyone’s messaging vulnerable as long as they aren’t. 

Of course, iMessages have been encrypted from the start, so even if I send a iMessage to a person using an iPhone 4 it will be encrypted. 

Recent data shows the percentage of Android users already actively using RCS messaging is estimated to be around 70-80% in regions with widespread carrier support. With Samsung now committed to using Google Messages with E2EE as well, those numbers will be going even higher. If someone has a fairly recent Android device, RCS is enabled by default. 

Based on my contacts alone that seems reasonable. I’d say about 20% of my Android contacts don’t support RCS. Google clearly still has work to do there. On the other hand, 100% of my iPhone contacts support iMessage.

gatorguy said:

AppleInsider said:

So it appears for now that using RCS to send messages between iPhones and Android is not encrypted. That also means that if any iMessage group has even one Android member in it, the group's conversation can potentially be read.

The same is true for an Android owner. If just one iPhone user is part of the Google Messages conversation then the entire group may be compromised.

 This is the number one reason that Apple should be aggressively involved in closing up their end of RCS. It makes everyone's messaging vulnerable as long as they don't, even those messages between iPhone owners that can't be sent with iMessage for varying reasons.

The same can be said for people using Android phones that don’t support RCS. Google should be aggressively encouraging them to update to modern OS, it makes everyone’s messaging vulnerable as long as they aren’t. 

I suppose it depends on the time scale. Is Indonesia expecting $1B in investment per year or could it be spread out over 10 years? Apple may make a commitment to invest $1B over time if that makes sense to them.

It remains to be seen if the FBI might realize such a breach was inevitable, just as a backdoor in Apple's encryption would inevitably be breached by bad actors.

No