dk49

longpath said:

dk49 said:

This is exactly what I was thinking Apple might do. But I was hoping they would pump money into Magna and ask them to build a US plant. Having Magna as a partner would have allowed Apple to have complete control over manufacturing process, without needing to be associated with an existing auto manufacturer, and thus not worrying about dilution of their brand. They could have also build their own car platform with assistance from Magna, instead of using Hyundai's E-GMP platform. That would have allowed them to build it exactly as per their needs.

The article says that Apple will use its own battery technology. But if they are using Hyundai's E-GMP platform, they would probably have to stick with the battery included in that platform, unless Hyundai allows Apple to customize the platform with their own batteries.

The platform would easily allow battery tech from Apple to be substituted, as long as it fits in the same bay. My concern is whether the platform is structurally dependent upon so-called mild steels being used in the battery box, which will render it vulnerable to salt rot. Hopefully, it is a design that’s adaptable to high nickel alloys, which resist rust and corrosion better.

GG1 said:

dk49 said:

CloudTalkin said:

dk49 said:

If Hyundai decides to Ditch Apple, and Apple doesn't find another car manufacturer ready to assemble their cars, it will become really tough for Apple. They will have to build their own factories which will further delay the project. Though I wonder why Magna didn't say yes to it. They are basically the Foxconn for car manufacturers. And I am sure Apple must have approached them earlier.

Like you, I think Apple contacted Magna early in the process.  Probably one of the first companies Apple contacted.  I think 2 things made Magna an unacceptable partner. 
1. Location - I really think Apple desires a US assembly location.  The infrastructure for manufacturing and assembling their general tech (phones, computers, tablets, etc) is concentrated in Asia.  That's not the case for cars, and assembly in the US could even be cheaper.   Magna has no N. American plants.  It's rumored (again) they're looking to open a N. American plant, but that rumor has surfaced many times over the past couple of decades.
2. Capacity - I've no doubt Magna could handle Apple's initial assembly and volume.  Apple's thinking long term.  Scale and capacity would be Magna's issue.  Magna doesn't have an advantage in ether of those factors that could compete with Hyundai's capacity.  Hyundai/Kia has the ability scale their production to meet any capacity Apple may need.  Magna doesn't have that ability.  They already contract manufacture Jaguar's I-Pace and E-Pace, Toyota's Supra, BMW's 5-Series and Z4, and MB's G-Class.  

When this story initially broke, I said Apple was looking for an OEM/contract manufacturer, not a brand partner.  Some people are still incorrectly looking at this from a brand partner perspective.  Not really sure why.  Questions like, "why Hyundai and not BMW, MB, Porsche, or [insert luxury brand here]" still abound.  None of those brands would ever consider being an OEM manufacturer.  They would have the same concerns that Hyundai is expressing about brand erosion, 'cept their concerns would be magnified because their brands are waaaaaaay more valuable and influential than Hyundai's.  That's not a knock on Hyundai.  That's just reality.

I agree with you on the aspect of finding a manufacturing partner. I had mentioned the same thing when people were like "Hyundai sucks. Why not BMW?". If Apple has to build its own factories, it's going to make this project much more complex and time consuming, and delay it by a few more years. 
Though Apple might indirectly partner with Magna in a way they did with Sharp for manufacturing LCD displays. They can pump in half of the money (or more) in Magna required to make a N. American plant. A financial push from Apple, combined with the long term benefits might be enough for Magna to start building a plant in N. America.

I agree that a US location is key, and maybe Magna could be persuaded to build in the US. And Hyundai/Kia seem to have their hands full with the popularity of their cars now (new Sonata, Palisade, etc.), so they may not have the capacity. And the quote from the Hyundai exec tells me it won't happen. Both want total control. Hyundai are not a contract manufacturer.

So I wonder if Apple may buy or partner with an EV company such as Lucid or Rivian. IMO both companies have taken the time to develop their vehicles and have not made splashy marketing/tweet claims. In other words, a similar behavior to how Apple operate (and total opposite to Nikola and Musk's tweets). And both are located in the US.

>>>>>>>>>

I don't think Apple will ever co-brand their cars. It would want a complete Apple branded car. Lucid or other similar manufacturers might not agree to it. And Lucid did made quite a lot of buzz when it introduced its cars, so it's not short on marketing. Only way Apple and Lucid could combine is if Apple baught Lucid. 

CloudTalkin said:

dk49 said:

If Hyundai decides to Ditch Apple, and Apple doesn't find another car manufacturer ready to assemble their cars, it will become really tough for Apple. They will have to build their own factories which will further delay the project. Though I wonder why Magna didn't say yes to it. They are basically the Foxconn for car manufacturers. And I am sure Apple must have approached them earlier.

Like you, I think Apple contacted Magna early in the process.  Probably one of the first companies Apple contacted.  I think 2 things made Magna an unacceptable partner. 
1. Location - I really think Apple desires a US assembly location.  The infrastructure for manufacturing and assembling their general tech (phones, computers, tablets, etc) is concentrated in Asia.  That's not the case for cars, and assembly in the US could even be cheaper.   Magna has no N. American plants.  It's rumored (again) they're looking to open a N. American plant, but that rumor has surfaced many times over the past couple of decades.
2. Capacity - I've no doubt Magna could handle Apple's initial assembly and volume.  Apple's thinking long term.  Scale and capacity would be Magna's issue.  Magna doesn't have an advantage in ether of those factors that could compete with Hyundai's capacity.  Hyundai/Kia has the ability scale their production to meet any capacity Apple may need.  Magna doesn't have that ability.  They already contract manufacture Jaguar's I-Pace and E-Pace, Toyota's Supra, BMW's 5-Series and Z4, and MB's G-Class.  

When this story initially broke, I said Apple was looking for an OEM/contract manufacturer, not a brand partner.  Some people are still incorrectly looking at this from a brand partner perspective.  Not really sure why.  Questions like, "why Hyundai and not BMW, MB, Porsche, or [insert luxury brand here]" still abound.  None of those brands would ever consider being an OEM manufacturer.  They would have the same concerns that Hyundai is expressing about brand erosion, 'cept their concerns would be magnified because their brands are waaaaaaay more valuable and influential than Hyundai's.  That's not a knock on Hyundai.  That's just reality.