rogifan_new

dysamoria said:

rogifan_new said:

dysamoria said:

Eric_WVGG said:

rogifan_new said:

Eric_WVGG said:

> “He's forming his own design firm, and Tim Cook is very clear on how he'll be contributing to Apple going forward. ‘Apple will continue to benefit from Jony's talents by working directly with him on exclusive projects, and through the ongoing work of the brilliant and passionate design team he has built’”

2013: "Scott Forstall will be leaving Apple and will serve as an advisor to CEO Tim Cook in the interim.”

Do you think Scott got more than a birthday card from Cook since leaving the company?

I'm not saying there's bad blood, but this is just corporate-speak. Ive is out.

Except when Forstall left he barely got a mention by Cook and was not quoted in Apple’s press release at all. Ive was plus gave an interview to discuss it. Of course that doesn’t mean this isn’t just an exit strategy. But the announcement is very different to what happened with Forstall.

Well I would argue/speculate the difference is Forstall was fired, and Ives is just bored out of his mind and amicably departed.

Anyway I hope you're right. I'm an Ives fanboy; I know the iOS 7 thing was controversial, but ultimately it had to happen. iOS 6 (and Bondi Blue era Mac OS) were embarrassingly garish, this shit had to grow up. Keyboard reliability aside, I love modern Macbooks. Ives brought us the future, full stop.

If you’re an Ive fanboy, maybe you should learn to spell his name.

Also, there was next to nothing wrong with iOS 6’s visual design. My iPhone 4 still runs it because I refused to cripple and uglify it with iOS 7. Every time I use it, I see how beautiful it is compared to today’s ugly iOS. Low contrast UI elements, flat Corel Draw-style oversimplified clipart icons, and borderless text as buttons isn’t the future. It’s a massive detour from the beauty, intuitiveness, and readability that put Apple on top with iOS and iPhone. We have pocket-sized print-level resolution displays with fantastic color capabilities, and the current over-simplistic UI skin barely takes advantage of this.

By the way, that’s all it is: a skin. The only actual GUI change was the control center; everything else is the same UI elements, reskinned as harder to look at (and lacking any visual cues as to what the control is). Dark mode might help, marginally, but it too looks like a clumsy shift to mere tone/color opposites, not a mode made with curated design choices.

Pretty much every thing you wrote is subjective. In my opinion, because we now have these beautiful retina displays we don’t iOS and prior heavy design. Anyway Apple has slowly been dialing it back in the other direction. Almost to the point where I think some things are too bold now (like the player controls in the music app). But there are a lot of other changes in iOS 13 I really like. I definitely wouldn’t want to go back iOS 6 which looks so dated to me. Of course that’s just my personal preference.

I remember when Windows 8 came out. Some thought it was brilliant and the future of UI design; others hated it with a passion. Then Windows 10 came along and it looked more like Windows 7 (a flatter version) than Windows 8.

Actually a fair amount of the complaints I’ve made about the iOS 7 redesign over the years aren’t subjective but are actual design language issues. There’s no accounting for taste, but things like contrast, distinctiveness,  and readability aren’t subjective. I won’t go into details about GUI design because people seem to think there’s no such thing as correct UI design and experts are labeled “arrogant know it alls”, and “Apple pays people to do this work, why do you think they wouldn’t have the best people possible who know more than you...” I’m not saying that’s what you’re going to say, it’s just what I see frequently and I’m tired of arguing with it.

Windows ... is Windows. Windows 8.1 didn’t bother me any more than any other Windows. I have always hated the design of Windows, except for Windows Vista, which was the one everyone hated and I thought was a minor improvement. The flat garbage Microsoft took on after that was ... meh. Linux picked up on it. And then Apple went there too (it boggles my mind that they copied the flat minimalist nonsense of two other operating systems instead of maintaining their own look). I don’t mind Windows 10 any more than the average Windows (I still hate it, but not more than average). But the thing about Windows’ flat minimalism is that it’s readable. Its new GUI (the modern part of the schizoid UI) is even duller and more full of whitespace than Apple’s iOS, but it’s more readable on average, even on a low resolution screen. The color choices and font sizes work better and they still seem to be willing to use at least outlines & shapes for buttons and other controls.

elijahg said:

macplusplus said:

radarthekat said:

dysamoria said:

Eric_WVGG said:

rogifan_new said:

Eric_WVGG said:

> “He's forming his own design firm, and Tim Cook is very clear on how he'll be contributing to Apple going forward. ‘Apple will continue to benefit from Jony's talents by working directly with him on exclusive projects, and through the ongoing work of the brilliant and passionate design team he has built’”

2013: "Scott Forstall will be leaving Apple and will serve as an advisor to CEO Tim Cook in the interim.”

Do you think Scott got more than a birthday card from Cook since leaving the company?

I'm not saying there's bad blood, but this is just corporate-speak. Ive is out.

Except when Forstall left he barely got a mention by Cook and was not quoted in Apple’s press release at all. Ive was plus gave an interview to discuss it. Of course that doesn’t mean this isn’t just an exit strategy. But the announcement is very different to what happened with Forstall.

Well I would argue/speculate the difference is Forstall was fired, and Ives is just bored out of his mind and amicably departed.

Anyway I hope you're right. I'm an Ives fanboy; I know the iOS 7 thing was controversial, but ultimately it had to happen. iOS 6 (and Bondi Blue era Mac OS) were embarrassingly garish, this shit had to grow up. Keyboard reliability aside, I love modern Macbooks. Ives brought us the future, full stop.

If you’re an Ive fanboy, maybe you should learn to spell his name.

Also, there was next to nothing wrong with iOS 6’s visual design. My iPhone 4 still runs it because I refused to cripple and uglify it with iOS 7. Every time I use it, I see how beautiful it is compared to today’s ugly iOS. Low contrast UI elements, flat Corel Draw-style oversimplified clipart icons, and borderless text as buttons isn’t the future. It’s a massive detour from the beauty, intuitiveness, and readability that put Apple on top with iOS and iPhone. We have pocket-sized print-level resolution displays with fantastic color capabilities, and the current over-simplistic UI skin barely takes advantage of this.

By the way, that’s all it is: a skin. The only actual GUI change was the control center; everything else is the same UI elements, reskinned as harder to look at (and lacking any visual cues as to what the control is). Dark mode might help, marginally, but it too looks like a clumsy shift to mere tone/color opposites, not a mode made with curated design choices.

iOS 7 was all about Tufte’s concept of non-data ink.  I’d bet every dollar I have that Ive is a student of Tufte. 

I don’t know. What I know is that high resolution Retina display would require a lightweight interface in terms of processing. 3D effects, text shadows, natural textures were all beautiful, previous designers did nothing wrong. Meanwhile they had a price in the age of Retina displays and consequently they had to go away. Retina fits more data thanks to high resolution, why waste that very precious space for “skin”? And recall that that was Federighi who introduced the new interface, not Ive.

What? You spout a lot of rubbish sometimes. The iPhone 4 had a retina display, and was able to handle the Forstall UI just fine. In fact there's more translucency and 3D animations in the iOS7+ UI than there was in the skeuomorphic one. The UI was designed by Ive, who introduced it is irrelevant.

zoetmb said:

I actually think this is a good thing.  While many of Ive's designs were brilliant in many respects, he always placed form over function.   So we have the MBP in which the overwhelming design objective was thinness, but in doing so removed the ability to replace/upgrade battery, storage and memory.   What we don't know is whether or not this was imposed upon Ive by marketing as a way to force people to buy new computers more often. 

We have beautiful looking phones (although most competitive phones look just about as good), which look great in advertisements, but are so fragile that you have to place them in a case anyway, so you're never really seeing the phone as intended.   I can't tell you the number of times when I've seen someone handling their phone without a case and thinking, "oh..that's a really nice looking phone" and then realizing that I had the exact same model (but mine was in a case).   And while it's become less of a factor over time due to improvements in battery tech, it's ridiculous that an end-user can't replace the battery in an iPhone.    Would you buy a car in which the car had to be returned to the dealer to replace the tires, headlights or battery?   

I actually hope that Ive doesn't have all that much involvement with Apple once he launches his new firm.   I think it's time for new blood and new ideas.   I hope the people taking over design at Apple have radically different ideas from Ive's.