Urei1620

ibill said:

Obama's DOJ are behaving like terrorists.

I'd argue that the DOJ is practically a state terrorist organization, getting done what terrorists or unfriendly foreign governments could not pull off.

Yeas Loretta, Americans do not trust the DOJ. You let Jim Clapper and Keith Alexander off the hook after lying under oath to Congress, yet you coerce companies to do what you want with your unconstitutional overreach of power. 

jmgregory1 said:

I think, what Apple should do is to not only do what the FBI is asking, but go a step further and create a new version of iOS that is completely open and hackable so the government has access to everyone's data - and so that the Russian, Chinese and other nefarious hackers can steal everyone's data, bank accounts, etc.

It's just ridiculous that the FBI is hanging its hat on this one iPhone, which just happens to be the one thing the perp didn't destroy...hint, hint, maybe because it's got nothing on it worth hiding...

the US Govt is not interested in keeping your data secure. They are hypocritical and flat out liars. It is a fact from the Snowden leaks, that the US Govt is more interested in finding zero day threats, not to patch them (or let private companies know of threats) to keep everyone safe, but to exploit them to spy on the wide population or mount cyber attack to other countries. They go a step further and infiltrate industry groups to water down encryption standards, so that they can break them easily. Now the FBI and DOJ are forcing Apple to undermine data security of their products. The US Govt is shortsighted in every thing it does and fails at everything it does.

The US Govt clearly does not have America's best interests in mind and we are now left with the private sector defending our interests. It is sad.

terrorists have succeeded in spreading fear to the wide population by using governments to do their bidding. They have also managed to have governments do what they themselves could not do, undermine the Constitution (US), our principles as a free society. The way governments should fight terrorism is to do exactly the opposite. That's is, to FERVENTLY protect privacy, to make everyone feel secure, to adhere to the Constitution, to strike the proper balance between law enforcement and civil liberties, and to improve government so that it can serve better.

Dave S said:

Are we saying that we are so paranoid that we do not trust our gov't not to do something illegal like look at other phones when they shouldn't if they have that ability?  Again, when we assume crime will occur on that level, those who put forth the argument, I suspect, have much bigger issues with the gov't than this evidentiary issue.  I work on the assumption that we have to trust the system.  If not, we lose.  Is it abused, sure.  Everything is.  We are still the best system in the world and, generally, if our gov't abuses something, we usually find out.

I can see why the gov't would have real evidentiary issues at trial if it were not able to show exactly how the info was extracted.  That said, in this instance, the gov't, as I understand it, is looking from more of an investigatory standpoint than prosecutorial.  As a result, on these facts, I would not let the gov't have any more than the info itself.  Where it was on the phone and how it was extracted would only become an issue in need of determination in the event the matter went to trial and the prosecuting attorney wanted to use some of the info as evidence showing the truth of what was asserted.  If that were the case, I truly believe Apple has this obligation even if it means some lack of overall security.

After all, we are all 90% good and it is only when we act collectively that things get scary (big companies and gov'ts).  So, the vast majority of us wont have our info stolen and, if we do, it wont be the end of our world.  On the other hand, defending ourselves from true threats of mass murder is serious.  We need to accord these men and women in our gov't the ability to do their job.  If they abuse it, shame on them.  Regardless, I would hope we get a fair and reasoned opinion that takes these things into consideration.  I appreciate the dialogue.  It has brought me a bit more toward the middle.  Regardless, I think we are overthinking this particular situation.  The judge should simply order disclosure of the contents and nothing more (certainly nothing that would threaten Apple's proprietary rights).

Once Apple creates this custom OS, the US Govt will demand to have it. the Govt will require it to be done for every firmware revision. It will set the precedence. Also, the US Govt IS UNABLE to hold on to anything critical safe. There are thousands of contractors and less than honest people working for the government. This GovtOS if created will leak out in no time. I bet you $1 million. This will compromise security for ALL iPhone users. Trust me, Snowden walked out from the NSA as a contractor with thousands of files and the NSA did not know...They do not even know how many files he took with him. History shows that you cannot trust the Govt to keep critical information or software safe. The US Govt is a national security risk.