klink172
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Boeing 737 Max pilots didn't have flight simulators, and trained on iPads instead
They’re beyond the speciation and the focus is on the MCAS for good reason. The position of the screw jacks in both accidents and the near identical flight profile in the same phase of flight is plenty of evidence.dewme said:
I'll wait for the root cause failure analysis to be completed by aviation safety and aeronautical experts prior to jumping to any conclusions. Correlation without causation and uninformed speculation is leading to bogus reasoning and infantile logic, e.g., "these planes are too complex to fly." Let's see where the evidence leads and see what corrective actions are issued. These are complex engineered systems whose flight characteristics, ability to fly, and reasons for not flying under certain circumstances are fully deterministic.sflocal said:
Why? The 737-8 is pretty much identical physically as the prior planes, sans more elaborate software. Same controls, etc. It's not like there's a physical defect that caused the planes to crash. If a 737 pilot with thousands of flight-hours starts on a 737-8, why re-learn everything that hasn't changed? If all it is is software about this anti-stalling feature, I really don't have a problem with training on something as humble as an iPad if it's for information-use only. Sure, simulators would be much better in any situation.poisednoise said:
I don't think the suggestion is that just anyone off the street was put in the 737-8 cockpit after a few hours on an iPad, that's obviously ridiculous.wood1208 said:Don't believe what you read. Pilots are trained in many ways including flight simulators,cockpit practical flying,etc. Than, they fly for thousands of hours call on job perfecting skills.
AppleInsider said:
That's just about plausible, but still criminal - quite possibly literally.It was determined that, at least in the case of the Max, pilots with prior 737 experience [my emphasis] learned about the new plane using an iPad for two hours, as well as a 13-page handbook of differences between the Max and earlier models.What I have a problem with is Boeing's lack of transparency here. if all it takes is a software fix, great. The problem I have is testing/training on the updated software. Buggy software on my PC could cause it to lock up, requiring a reboot and life moves on until a fix is made. Buggy software in the 737's flightOS could cause the plane to literally fall down from the sky, killing hundreds of people. That kind of unreliability is inexcusable. Boeing really needs to step up here, which to me seems like they're asleep at the wheel.
It's nonsensical to compare the product quality practices, reliability engineering, availability engineering, safety engineering, and overall design scrutiny that goes into military and commercial aviation products compared to "PC grade" or most any consumer-oriented product. There are a plethora of poser product development organizations out there who blow around a lot of hot air about being "lean six sigma" organizations. The problem is that almost none of them were ever proven six sigma organizations before they tried to become both lean and six sigma. They might be doing pretty good on the "lean" part, but both lean and six sigma, that's a very high bar to jump over for the first time and all at once, especially if you never got the six sigma part nailed. Boeing has the six sigma part nailed and an impressive safety record across their entire product line. So yeah, they've been "stepping it up" for many decades and will absolutely get to the bottom of why these two aircraft crashed.
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Boeing 737 Max pilots didn't have flight simulators, and trained on iPads instead
A specious conclusion. The aircraft experienced a false input into he MCAS which caused an control surface deflection the was not overridable. Pilots here have submitted reports reports of anomalies with the system that, luckily, weren’t as catastrophic as the other two.SpamSandwich said:
There have been no instances of crashes in the US, so all signs point to pilots with a severe lack of training and experience so far.poisednoise said:Apart from the mention of iPads, I'm unclear why this has appeared here, but I'm utterly astonished if this is the case (it seems to exist as news currently only also on flightaware and a few other non-mainstream news sites).
It seems the more we learn about this fiasco the more it would appear that there should be prosecutions brought against people who made these decisions at Boeing, quite possibly charges of manslaughter. I'm currently booked on a return flight on a 737-8 in July, and I really hope by that point the decision's been made that they all need to be scrapped and start again.
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Boeing 737 Max pilots didn't have flight simulators, and trained on iPads instead
There are times when training allows for self-schooling (paper/iPad) and times where ground school and/or sim is necessary. Cost drives decisions and cost very much drove this decision. Boeing was pressured by SWA to certify the MAX so that sim would be unecessary thereby eliminating those costs and keeping sim time available for other training. Sim time, btw, is a very in-demand resource.
With pressure from the airlines, Boeing pulled strings at the FAA to certify the MAX so that pilots could do self-schooling and qualify on the differences of the MAX. That schooling was highly deficient in what it covered.
Its one thing moving a person from a Honda CRX to an Accord - very easy and mostly intuitive. Try moving a person from a CRX to a Tesla with only a few minutes of explanation and you get a better idea of what Boeing did.
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Jony Ive talks Steve Jobs's vision for Apple Park, design inspiration from 'Star Wars'
Are you implying that they're going to blow up Alderaan?smaffei said:Am I the only one that noticed that all of Ive's "Star Wars" inspiration comes from the Empire's design school?Says a lot about Apple's current trajectory…
