PShimi
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Apple's A12Z Bionic chip could be a re-binned A12X
Forgot to mention - the 12X 8th GPU was probably turned off for heat / power consumption reasons.
I had initially thought this was for better yelds, but that's less likely.
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Apple's A12Z Bionic chip could be a re-binned A12X
A12X is TSMC's N7 process (fact)
A12Z is TSMC's N7P process (educated guess)
N7P is 10% more efficient for power use.
The 2020 iPad Pro has a smaller battery, an SoC at the same frequency, yet an additional GPU core turned on - but can run longer at top frequencies (Apple said so) and has the same run time (Apple said so).
This means it must be a newer process, not just better binning.
N7P process is already used for the A13 chip - it's not some special delux process.
The A14X is likely to be N5 for example.
As for RAM - it is not part of the SoC Eriamjh.
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A rollable iPad won't break at the hinge, and Apple keeps working on one
Just like the movie Red Planet (2000) - they had rollable screens then. It was pretty cool.
Ah! Just read US Patent No 10,602,623, interesting.
What exactly are Apple patenting here? It seems - a display that can fit in a hinge, how it would bend, and how the layers of the display would be kept in place and not buckle.
Essentially they are using a flexible display semi laminated to the inner surface of a transparent material, the gap filled with material (maybe even a gel) with the correct refractive index that it would make the display look closer to the surface.
Imagine a book - this would be used on the spine. With two standard display panels on the front and back cover.
The spine display integrates with the front and back covers such that you can's see the join between the displays.
Now, if you have a phone like this, and were to open the phone like a book (only you look at the cover of the book instead of inside the book) you would now have a tablet.
The grooves cut into the material are so that it can bend. That's standard, nothing new.
I didn't see the rollable screens from Red Planet in this patent though.
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2020 iPad Pro's A12Z shows little improvement over 2018's A12X in early benchmarks
I think Apple wants to get LiDAR into people's (developer's) hands sooner rather than later, because:rain22 said:Well... isn't that just indicative of Apple innovation of late.
when they release the iPhone 14 later this year, it would help their marketing if there were apps that actually took advantage of it.
They tweaked the SoC a bit, presumably to perform better with the LiDAR.
The RAM speed is curious though. I'd read about it a couple of days back, and thought perhaps the SoC was clocked higher and the stepping resulted in the RAM being clocked slightly lower. But now we see the SoC is the same GHz, so who knows.
There is another reason for this release - they wanted to sell more units - and if you tell people 'the iPad Pro is great, but hasn't been updated in a while' they hold out. Now we have lots of people stuck at home, that are being told 'there is a new model' - most people who were holding out will probably 'rush out' (online) and buy it.
I am still waiting for the newer iPad Pro with an A14X in Oct this year. While we shall have to wait and see if that really happens, I feel like it will (it's a feeling, rather than because I read something somewhere). I was one of those burned by the iPad 3, not happening again.
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2020 iPad Pro models feature 6GB of RAM, U1 chip across the board
I had read someone's comment somewhere weeks back. It struck a chord at the time, but looking back now I can find no proof whatsoever that there were ever more than 7 GPU cores physically present on the SoC.melgross said:
I don’t know why you would thing the extra core was always there, when photos of the chip clearly show 7 cores.PShimi said:
I'm not sure how long they take to develop new processors. It might even be three years or more. Certainly different parts of the processor will be done by different teams, for different amounts of time.melgross said:
It takes two years to come out with a new processor. So there’s no way apple rushed this one out the door. If it were the same, other than for slightly increased clocks, possibly you could have some argument for it, but there are major changes. More cores, new thermal management. This was all done well in advance. Everything else you’re saying is just guesswork. We’ll have to see what Anandtech says when they review it,PShimi said:melgross said:davidmalcolm said:Well that's good to hear since I already ordered mine!
The only thing that my 9.7 inch iPad Pro needed really was more RAM. Part of me is bummed about the lack of A13, but if I remember from the presentation the A13 was really geared more toward power efficiency for phones they didn't get a massive performance boost out of it.
I'm just really hoping this doesn't turn out to be some BS update where they release another one in the fall with an A14X that blows this one out of the water.currentinterest said:
I think there is a good chance they will do just that. I am hanging on to my iPad Pro 10.5 inch until the 5G version ships.davidmalcolm said:Well that's good to hear since I already ordered mine!
The only thing that my 9.7 inch iPad Pro needed really was more RAM. Part of me is bummed about the lack of A13, but if I remember from the presentation the A13 was really geared more toward power efficiency for phones they didn't get a massive performance boost out of it.
I'm just really hoping this doesn't turn out to be some BS update where they release another one in the fall with an A14X that blows this one out of the water.
It’s been a year and five months since the last one, dubbed the 2018 model, which I have, and am typing on right now. It’s highly unlikely that they will release one later this year. Not Impossible, but highly unlikely. You guys are basing your thinking here solely on the word of Kuo, who is wrong often enough, and particularly so about dates. The time of flight camera was also predicted by him to come out later this fall, and he was wrong there. I’m confident enough so that I ordered one as soon as it was released. I’m curious about the SoC as well, but the Z does ATI on shows that there’s something unusual going on there. Their mention about a new thermal envelope design for the chip also shows something new is going on. In the other article about the release the other day, people were complaining about it still having 5GB of RAM. Now they know they were wrong. Why don’t we wait until it’s actually here before griping about things you don’t know about?PShimi said:I too am wondering about this. Despite the time between updates of the iPad Pro - I had expected the update in Sept/Oct this year.
Could it be that Apple rushed out an update now for all those who suddenly have to work from home? Maybe (but unlikely).
It is suspect that the keyboard will not be ready till May though. As if they were not originally planning to release it that early.
Thoughts of the iPad3 come to mind. I remember the iPad 2 came out, and it felt like an improved though warmed over iPad 1. I knew the retina display would be coming, so gave it a pass. Eventually it did - in the form of the ipad 3 - with it's massive back and larger battery. It was the iPad everyone had been waiting for. Six months later, along came the iPad 4 - thinner, lighter, faster.
I would not be surprised if a new version of the iPad pro comes out later this year with a better CPU.
On another topic - how do you all feel about the price? iPad Pro 12.9 + 512GB upgrade + wifi/cell + keyboard + pencil = ¥220,000 (about $2060).
MacBook Air 2020 + i7 1.2Ghz 10th Gen + 512GB + 16GB = ¥170,000 (about $1600)
Interestingly, Mac Book Pro 13 2019 i7 1.7GHz 8th gen + 512GB + 16GB = ¥230,000 (about $2150)
I remember when the iPad was significantly cheaper than a laptop. It's no longer the case (for iPad Pro).
It makes it a difficult proposition to sink that much money into a machine that has the limitations of the iPad (and believe me, I do want one - I've been waiting for this update to buy the 12.9 model).
The Air config above is likely exactly the same in terms of overall performance to the Mac Book Pro. The Air is not really 'lighter' (something like 80 grams) it is not really smaller (the volume is about the same); the screen is almost as good as the pro, the keyboard is better than the pro (I'm sure a Pro update is in the works), better battery life, though you lose the touchbar. I wonder if $550 is really worth the difference to most people?
(For those that wonder about the CPU difference):
The Air i7 1.2GHz option is likely the i7-10510Y (though the turbo boost speed 4.5 single core, 3.2 all cores does not match Apple's 3.8 spec - it's not clear what Apple's spec really means - single core, or all cores, or two cores?)
The Pro i7 1.7Ghz option is likely the i7-8557U (passmark 10470)
Can't find any benchmarks on the i7-10510Y even though it came out in Aug 2019... odd. The memory bus speed of the Air i7 1.2GHz is lower than the pros, but the generation is 10 vs 8, so the overall performance is likely not too different that it would make any meaningful difference in day to day use (I have no stats to back this up, because I can't find any, it's just a hunch).I think you are right.
However, while we have all heard what Kuo thought, I actually expected the release in June (it fits with the cadence of their AX releases), and is/was good timing for the Olympics. The keyboard has clearly been in the works over two years (the 2018 Pro had connections moved for it) and the earliest they can get it out is May. Now maybe that's a result of the Coronavirus, but maybe, just maybe, they were going to release that in June too... which is why they couldn't get it out in time for the sudden March release.
This leads me to think that the A12Z SoC is not what Apple were originally intending to use. Every new Pro release has been at least 30% faster - and Apple talk about it every time, just not this time. The the increase in speed whilst there, is likely not as significant as it usually is. If the A12Z is in fact an A12X with all GPU cores enabled (from 7 to 8) on TSMC's 7NP process (7% faster, or 10% less power requirements than the 7N process the A12X was on). The thermal envelope might simply be TSMC's better process. Apple also apparently 'tuned performance controllers' (I think that means when and where parts of the chip are shut down to reduce power load and heat, other parts can be clocked higher and the extra heat they produce doing that balances out? Not sure.)
I really do think there is an A13X in the works, and I think Apple realised with the testing production problems resulting from the virus that they could not get it ready by June. Rather than miss a sales opportunity of the Olympics (as it was) it made sense to take an existing chip and use a new process to make the A12Z instead. Thinking of the Olympics, I have no doubt that journalists would be very happy with the new Pro and that keyboard - I'm sure they are a target for Apple.
At the end of the day, it's going to be a good improvement, no doubt, but I just have that sneaky suspicion it is not quite as big a jump as we were all hoping. Regardless, I'm sure it's a fantastic machine - and I do want one.
I hear you though. It's unlikely they would be rushing things out the door last minute. I just cannot shake the feeling though that something's up.
As for major changes, I don't think there have been major changes other than a minor manufacture process improvement and the enabling of a GPU core that was always there but disabled. As you say though, we'll have to wait for Anandtech (and others) to work out what improvements Apple actually made. Thanks Melgross. A good weekend to you!
That said, I can't find an x-ray image of the A12X die either - not even one. There are plenty of graphic based images of the A12X (released by Apple) but not one x-ray (while there are many of the A12).
The comment got me thinking, and I convinced myself that perhaps sometimes there were defects in the manufacture process in the beginning and having eight cores would allow them (TSMC) to disable one and usually (if not always) have 7 working. This is common in AMD / Intel CPU manufacture, and keeps the yield up (which I'm sure you are familiar with).
Thinking about this more now though - given the cost of space on the SoC it seems unlikely they would do this. I don't know how good TSMCs yield rate is, but perhaps defect rates are very low that they would not do this.
Thanks for your comment.
