PShimi

melgross said:

PShimi said:

melgross said:

davidmalcolm said:

Well that's good to hear since I already ordered mine! The only thing that my 9.7 inch iPad Pro needed really was more RAM. Part of me is bummed about the lack of A13, but if I remember from the presentation the A13 was really geared more toward power efficiency for phones they didn't get a massive performance boost out of it. I'm just really hoping this doesn't turn out to be some BS update where they release another one in the fall with an A14X that blows this one out of the water.

currentinterest said:

davidmalcolm said:

Well that's good to hear since I already ordered mine! The only thing that my 9.7 inch iPad Pro needed really was more RAM. Part of me is bummed about the lack of A13, but if I remember from the presentation the A13 was really geared more toward power efficiency for phones they didn't get a massive performance boost out of it. I'm just really hoping this doesn't turn out to be some BS update where they release another one in the fall with an A14X that blows this one out of the water.

I think there is a good chance they will do just that. I am hanging on to my iPad Pro 10.5 inch until the 5G version ships.

PShimi said:

I too am wondering about this. Despite the time between updates of the iPad Pro - I had expected the update in Sept/Oct this year.
Could it be that Apple rushed out an update now for all those who suddenly have to work from home? Maybe (but unlikely).
It is suspect that the keyboard will not be ready till May though. As if they were not originally planning to release it that early.

Thoughts of the iPad3 come to mind. I remember the iPad 2 came out, and it felt like an improved though warmed over iPad 1. I knew the retina display would be coming, so gave it a pass. Eventually it did - in the form of the ipad 3 - with it's massive back and larger battery. It was the iPad everyone had been waiting for. Six months later, along came the iPad 4 - thinner, lighter, faster.

I would not be surprised if a new version of the iPad pro comes out later this year with a better CPU.

On another topic - how do you all feel about the price? iPad Pro 12.9 + 512GB upgrade + wifi/cell + keyboard + pencil = ¥220,000 (about $2060).
MacBook Air 2020 + i7 1.2Ghz 10th Gen + 512GB + 16GB = ¥170,000 (about $1600)
Interestingly, Mac Book Pro 13 2019 i7 1.7GHz 8th gen + 512GB + 16GB = ¥230,000 (about $2150)

I remember when the iPad was significantly cheaper than a laptop. It's no longer the case (for iPad Pro).
It makes it a difficult proposition to sink that much money into a machine that has the limitations of the iPad (and believe me, I do want one - I've been waiting for this update to buy the 12.9 model).
The Air config above is likely exactly the same in terms of overall performance to the Mac Book Pro. The Air is not really 'lighter' (something like 80 grams) it is not really smaller (the volume is about the same); the screen is almost as good as the pro, the keyboard is better than the pro (I'm sure a Pro update is in the works), better battery life, though you lose the touchbar. I wonder if $550 is really worth the difference to most people?

(For those that wonder about the CPU difference):
The Air i7 1.2GHz option is likely the i7-10510Y (though the turbo boost speed 4.5 single core, 3.2 all cores does not match Apple's 3.8 spec - it's not clear what Apple's spec really means - single core, or all cores, or two cores?)
The Pro i7 1.7Ghz option is likely the i7-8557U (passmark 10470)
Can't find any benchmarks on the i7-10510Y even though it came out in Aug 2019... odd. The memory bus speed of the Air i7 1.2GHz is lower than the pros, but the generation is 10 vs 8, so the overall performance is likely not too different that it would make any meaningful difference in day to day use (I have no stats to back this up, because I can't find any, it's just a hunch).

It’s been a year and five months since the last one, dubbed the 2018 model, which I have, and am typing on right now. It’s highly unlikely that they will release one later this year. Not Impossible, but highly unlikely. You guys are basing your thinking here solely on the word of Kuo, who is wrong often enough, and particularly so about dates. The time of flight camera was also predicted by him to come out later this fall, and he was wrong there. I’m confident enough so that I ordered one as soon as it was released. I’m curious about the SoC as well, but the Z does ATI on shows that there’s something unusual going on there. Their mention about a new thermal envelope design for the chip also shows something new is going on. In the other article about the release the other day, people were complaining about it still having 5GB of RAM. Now they know they were wrong.  Why don’t we wait until it’s actually here before griping about things you don’t know about?

I think you are right.
However, while we have all heard what Kuo thought, I actually expected the release in June (it fits with the cadence of their AX releases), and is/was good timing for the Olympics. The keyboard has clearly been in the works over two years (the 2018 Pro had connections moved for it) and the earliest they can get it out is May. Now maybe that's a result of the Coronavirus, but maybe, just maybe, they were going to release that in June too... which is why they couldn't get it out in time for the sudden March release.
This leads me to think that the A12Z SoC is not what Apple were originally intending to use. Every new Pro release has been at least 30% faster - and Apple talk about it every time, just not this time. The the increase in speed whilst there, is likely not as significant as it usually is. If the A12Z is in fact an A12X with all GPU cores enabled (from 7 to 8) on TSMC's 7NP process (7% faster, or 10% less power requirements than the 7N process the A12X was on). The thermal envelope might simply be TSMC's better process. Apple also apparently 'tuned performance controllers' (I think that means when and where parts of the chip are shut down to reduce power load and heat, other parts can be clocked higher and the extra heat they produce doing that balances out? Not sure.)
I really do think there is an A13X in the works, and I think Apple realised with the testing production problems resulting from the virus that they could not get it ready by June. Rather than miss a sales opportunity of the Olympics (as it was) it made sense to take an existing chip and use a new process to make the A12Z instead. Thinking of the Olympics, I have no doubt that journalists would be very happy with the new Pro and that keyboard - I'm sure they are a target for Apple.
At the end of the day, it's going to be a good improvement, no doubt, but I just have that sneaky suspicion it is not quite as big a jump as we were all hoping. Regardless, I'm sure it's a fantastic machine - and I do want one.

We'll have to wait for it arrive and see some bench marks done on it before we'll really know.

PS Sorry, I have tried to edit this a few times. I don't know why it is creating a link across the entire text.

It takes two years to come out with a new processor. So there’s no way apple rushed this one out the door. If it were the same, other than for slightly increased clocks, possibly you could have some argument for it, but there are major changes. More cores, new thermal management. This was all done well in advance. Everything else you’re saying is just guesswork. We’ll have to see what Anandtech says when they review it,

I'm not sure how long they take to develop new processors. It might even be three years or more. Certainly different parts of the processor will be done by different teams, for different amounts of time.
I hear you though. It's unlikely they would be rushing things out the door last minute. I just cannot shake the feeling though that something's up.

As for major changes, I don't think there have been major changes other than a minor manufacture process improvement and the enabling of a GPU core that was always there but disabled. As you say though, we'll have to wait for Anandtech (and others) to work out what improvements Apple actually made. Thanks Melgross. A good weekend to you!

sagan_student said:

PShimi said:

Which is exactly the point. Apple seem to be trying to shift people from buying a traditional laptop, to buying an iPad and accessories. I have no doubt the iPad is cheaper to manufacture, and extra accessories all add profit to Apple's bottom line. Considering this, the iPad is quite simply, over priced. The Air is definitely the better buy, by a long shot. It just isn't as cool and hip as all Apple's ads try to tell you the iPad is.

I am confused by what you are suggesting. You are correlating the iPad with the cost of an iPad Pro, which is disingenuous. If you are simply wanting a consumption device, then the iPad or maybe the iPad Air is for you. These are both substantially cheaper than the Pro. For those that want to supplant their current laptop and iPad workflow with one that is just an iPad, like what I have done, then the iPad Pro is the choice. I could either buy a 64 GB iPad Air and the best MacBook Air for 2188 CDN plus tax OR I could buy a 256 GB 12.9 iPad Pro with the pencil and magic keyboard for 2000 CDN plus tax. For me I would rather have just one device for all my needs, then two; saving me 200 dollars. This may not be for everyone, but it is definitely not over priced.

I'm sorry. Very poor writing on my part. I was talking about the iPad Pro, not the iPad.
I completely agree with you that in terms of cost an iPad Pro is cheaper than an iPad and a laptop. Makes sense.

I would agree with other commenters that 16GB RAM is more important than lots of storage. 16GB / 512GB is the standard I go for (photography, programming, web design).

I was actually just comparing these options on the story about "2020 iPad Pro models feature 6GB of RAM, U1 chip across the board"
And wrote the following in comments:

"On another topic - how do you all feel about the price? iPad Pro 12.9 + 512GB upgrade + wifi/cell + keyboard + pencil = ¥220,000 (about $2060).
MacBook Air 2020 + i7 1.2Ghz 10th Gen + 512GB + 16GB = ¥170,000 (about $1600)
Interestingly, Mac Book Pro 13 2019 i7 1.7GHz 8th gen + 512GB + 16GB = ¥230,000 (about $2150)"

The point of my previous comment (as pasted above) is how similar the machines are. I think that if you want to be able to hand write notes / draw diagrams / pictures the iPad is the only choice (and I would recommend the Concepts app with its infinity canvas). If you are predominantly doing things with a keyboard - writing emails, documents, and have no real need for drawing things, then an Air is significantly cheaper, and will do you just fine. If you are writing software, compiling, doing heavy video editing, and portability is a requirement (well, that's what this article is about, right?) then the Mac Book Pro is for you. I don't think it could be made any clearer.

AniMill said:

Totally gonna get that new keyboard. One question though, what’s happened to the Magic Connector on the iPad? Has it been deprecated, eliminated? Does the new keyboard get power or power the iPad? I see the USB-C port, so I’m guessing no connection to the iPad. Bummer.

I think the connector is unchanged. The keyboard for the iPad Pro 2020 will work on the iPad pro 2018 - so the connector must be exactly the same for that to be possible.

wizard69 said:

Call me what you want but nothing about Apple “service” impresses me over the last 5 years or so.    The idea that Apple has competent people in the stores and service centers is really a hold over from what people got a decade ago.   For the most part Apple can’t support its own hardware beyond simple fixes.    Service / support screw ups are why I have a Linux box on my desk right now.  

All of this is especially distressing when hardware prices have sky rocketed beyond all reason.  Why people defend Apples pricing is beyond me, the value isn’t there anymore.  Back in 2008 when I got into Macs again the Apple Tax was bearable.  These days between the initial high costs and the screwing you get if something is out of warranty going Apple is just stupid.    People need to wake up the Apple of old is gone.  

Mmm. I originally got into Macs because my wife was a designer when I met her, and she used an iBook (2002 ish). I played with it from time to time. It was nicely made, with care and attention to detail. OS 9 was not my favourite though. When we came back to Japan, I found the box of her iBook, and in the box was non other than an OSX sample disk. Well, I just had to give that a go. I was hooked from that point on. It was a different beast, and started me down the Apple road... First I bought a G5 iMac, which was sorely under powered. While a nice machine, I was disappointed when I realised how slow it actually was in terms of cost performance. I had believed all of Apple's marketing (do any of you remember their 2005 website? How amazing and forward thinking the Power PC was?
I was still using a windows box at the office, but kept looking at Apple's laptops. I really liked the keyboards on the Power Macs. When the first Intel MacBook Pro came out in 2006, I snapped one right up. it was, shall we say, magic. The Mac had soul. I never felt tired using that machine. The keyboard was the most comfortable keyboard I had (and have had) on any laptop. The only problem it ever really had was the battery expanding (2008?). I took it to the Mac Store in Ginza, spoke to a Genius, in English no less, and they replaced the battery free of charge. I could not believe it. Just wow! (unfortunately the replacement did the same thing after about two years). I still have the machine, and fire it up from time to time just for kicks. The screen colours have shifted a lot, but fortunately using a colour calibrator it can be sorted out.

My 2013 MacBook is still my daily driver. It too had a battery expansion episode about two years ago. Apple replaced it (along with the keyboard as they do) for a reasonably low fee, and service was quick and friendly. No real complaints there. I do find the Apple store increasingly difficult to navigate though - where can I pay for this? Look for someone, who then points you to someone else, who then tells you to stand 'here' and then eventually someone comes along with their portable payment processor (I know that's not the right term, I forget). Years ago almost anyone could process the payment. It felt like a breeze of fresh air. Not like now.

Bought a Mac Pro in 2009, and flashed it with 2010 firmware to install a 6 core 3.2GHz XEON which was quite a bit faster. Considering it was identical hardware, I felt a bit annoyed that I had  trick the Pro into updating itself.
I think this is the point around when I began to have doubts about Apple. There was just a feeling that things were not quite as they should be. That did not stop me buying a 2010, 2013 and 2018 MacBook Pro, various iPads and every second iPhone (I've got to the point now I do not want to change my phone for at least 6 years - we'll just have to see if I can get the carrier to give me a decent rate).

Increasingly though there is something amiss. I know Apple has no soul, it never really did (well, perhaps in its infancy it did), it's just a massive massive corporation. But, Apple's products used to have a certain warmth to them, soul even. They were personable. Things feel more and more sterile now. It's the only term I can think of that succinctly paints a picture of how Apple seem to be becoming. The joy of simply using a computer to get things done with efficiency and without fuss, with a little elegance and finesse is slowly being strangled to death.

Is the Apple of old really gone?

PS Yes, prices have certainly sky rocketed, even adjusted for inflation they make little sense. Then again, as this topic was about service, and specifically the new Mac Pro - I am still confounded as to why Apple put silly overpriced Intel parts into a machine when AMDs CPUs (which I am absolutely quite sure they had sample copies of early on - there is code in OSX specific to AMD CPUs after all) completely destroy Intel's CPUs. It is, how shall I put it, not logically clear or understandable. I've looked into this at depth, and I cannot find a real reason, other than perhaps some corporate agreement.