arkorott

@dabigkahuna ;

It works both ways. For example, you refer to test units. Some use a slightly stronger “beta unit” and some go all the way to “prototype”.

No, it doesn't work both ways. Let's not get into semantics or particulars on if the test units are prototypes or from production runs. WT already clarified they are from a production run.

The point is that regardless they are from a production run, the units they sent treggers are TEST units sent to a limited number of people in the TEST RELEASE GROUP for the purpose of TESTING, under NDA, with soft with expiry date, you are not free to sell or give away them (you do not really own them).

So the fact that this group previously placed a yet unfulfilled order, this does not even come close to "shipping to paying customers".

It gets repeated over and over and it is simply not true. It is how a nasty used car sales salesman would twist facts to you and MISLEAD you. 
Somebody that does not read everything and only skims through this comments section / WTF and WT availability page seems to think that WT is/has already shipping orders and it is not true.

Many have already pointed this out repeatedly. This is not about putting WT down. It is about clarifying something that is not true, no matter how much WT wants to position themselves. For whatever (valid) reason the launch and release has been postponed 4+ years.
Just own it. No lies needed.

edit: if that is not the case why has only a few people received theirs and many others did not ? What is the criteria for shipping orders out of order ? I am sure there would even be legal claims to be made if that was the case.

I will now go back into wait mode for the promised update and then ask questions for clarification as needed.

@dabigkahuna & @WayTools_Support ;

Well, fine, our orders were not "fulfilled". But we were shipped a TextBlade and we are customers

It is exactly that, what I meant when I said mentioning repeatedly "shipped to paying customers" is a twisted technicality borderline falsehood.
If you had shipped, everyone would be asking "where is mine? I have not received anything".

a) Nobody's orders got fulfilled so far.

b) TREG people received a TEST UNIT which they do NOT OWN, cannot resell it or give away, under NDA, and with expiry date soft.

So technically yes, they are customers because they placed a (still unfulfilled) order, and yes they got shipped a test unit,
BUT NO, WT has not shipped to "paying" customers.

It would be more honest to say: 

After 4+ years all our paid customers are empty handed. Only a small subset of "hundreds" of testers have received a test unit.
We still have no clue when we will fulfill our end of the bargain and ship the orders to customers.

It is understandable you would not want to look that bad, so AT LEAST stop repeating over and over that misleading assertion because it is a lie, and makes your customers angry.

WayTools_Support said:

weirdosmurf - hundreds of TextBlades from production-tooled molds and processes have shipped to paying customers.  

That’s not general release yet, but it is an important accomplishment, and customers like it.  Those are good things.

Sorry to interject myself in here as I promised myself I would not, but your repeated misrepresentation of TREG people keeps rubbing the wrong way.
A TREGGER has signed an NDA and units use soft with expiration date on them. Correct me if that FACT is wrong.
The units they have they do not really OWN them, correct ?
TREG  = TEST RELEASE GROUP. TEST is even in the name coined by WT.

We only know of 131 such cases carefully compiled by DBK but even if there are perhaps  more it is WAY MISLEADING to label that as "shipping to customers" (although technically correct in a far fetched & convoluted way - like a nasty used car salesman would).
Repeating such "twisted technicality borderline falsehood" is disingenuous at best.

TREGGERS are TESTERS. (even "hundreds")
THOUSANDS of paying CUSTOMERS with paid orders (in advance years ago) have never received anything yet.
SO NO, YOU HAVE NOT SHIPPED TO US (YOUR CUSTOMERS) YET.

We are still waiting....

We know why folks who want to interfere with general release would talk-down what’s already been achieved.

Nobody is trying to interfere with anything. Quite the contrary:  they just want YOU to SHIP ONCE AND FOR ALL for GOD's SAKE.

You might have done a lot of great things so far and feel a well deserved pat in the back is due, but do you really expect that customers that have already waited for years with nothing to show in their hands will pat you in the back and compliment you ?

Perhaps iF we were all in TREG we would shower you with applauses and parades, but first you need to fulfill your end of the bargain, which is ship the friggin' units, FINAL or TREG units TO YOUR LONG STANDING AND EMPTY HANDED PAID CUSTOMERS.

edit: I suggest you add a third button to your command & control setup: besides the "BAN" and "REFUND" buttons, please place another "SHIP" button, and press it. 

WayTools_Support said:

Arkorott - you’ll find good answers to your tech questions in our next updates on our forum and website.  Please look there.

ok, then. Thanks for the answer. Will wait for the update and then ask questions as needed x clarification. Thanks

edit: BTW, as we are very close to the end of May do you know more precisely when will you post it ?

@WayTools_Support:

Please do not engage in the same behavior you condemn in the same breath:
Instead of attacking the posters answer the questions please. (Even if you feel slighted do not engage in bickering / personal attack & defense)
==>That would be a more productive use of your time and comments sections of this article and much more valued by your audience.

A few points:

a) DBK does not need you to defend him. 

b) He is not the only "real customer". You have very many past, present and future prospective customers in this audience. Don't get confused.

c) The Assembly / MC argument was interesting (not the attacking parts in any direction), BUT it was a side argument at best, and completely unrelated to the topic in question. Why engage on that but dodge all product & project questions ?

d) Just answer the PRODUCT & PROJECT questions please. That is what we are all here for. We have not received 1 single product & project answer except you will provide a technical update before the end of May after 1024 posts so far.

IMAGINE THIS. You are not WT and this is not about the TB. You are a regular customer:

1- You are a customer that placed an order for something years ago, and you have not received it because of delays for WHATEVER (valid) reason

2- You are engaged enough that you have not forgotten about it, and in fact you read about it almost every day for 4+ years

3- It is only natural you would be upset, anxious & frustrated, and wanting information on the product & status of the project

4- INSTEAD of a deluge of information, the information you receive as a customer has been less and less and now almost nothing and even the updates are lately not coming almost at all.

5- The vendor (proudly & constantly) offers refunds for frustrated customers as if that solved anything. You just want your thing.

6- There is an exclusive very small group of testers that have had units for years and tell you constantly how great the product you can't have is. How "worth of the wait" it is.
(Side comment: Kind of bizarre situation that somebody that has what you want, tells you that you should be happy you don't have it and you should be happy to keep waiting. That is what "worth the wait" means for us. WE will tell YOU later if it was worth the wait or not).

7- After you post at the vendor site, you get silenced like in a police state. You get banned & perhaps even forcefully refunded too for your troubles.

8- You believe you did nothing to warrant being banned. When you email the vendor, you receive no response, or you get one liners or comments that have nothing to do to what you posted. The best you get is "we will let the ban stand for a while". 7 months more go by and you are still silenced.

9- The vendor does not post much info on the product & project, but spends a ton of time discussing unrelated Apple stuff helping a tester with his computer, cooktops, helmets, and airplane crashes. BUT NOTHING on the project status dodging every question and postponing any answer to future upcoming updates. 

10- You see a glowing review article and you jump into the comments section but the vendor only engages in attack and defense posturing, and provides nothing substantial and dodges every product & project questions, and only promises an upcoming update.

==> Have you been able to follow this exercise and visualize yourself as this customer ? Can YOU imagine how YOU would feel ? THINK ABOUT IT.

Suggestions:

1 - Do an AMA as it was suggested many times. Perhaps after the technical update it would be great to have a Q&A session (on topic).

2 - Unban people reminding them of the WTF forum rules and move this discussion to your site. Some of us engage here because we have no other venue. Capiche ?

3- Provide more info and answer questions. Unless you have a gag order by a court it is incredible that you are not eager to share much more and have your "come to Jesus moment" and spill clearly what the situation is and what can be expected. It would relieve you a lot of the stress and would help you in your troubled relation with your customers. WE ARE YOUR CUSTOMERS.