arkorott

Is this still the thread on the TB ? 

I was encouraged as some info started trickling (posts 604 and 605), but there have been dozens of posts on semantics and etymology, racism and class clashes and a lot of bickering too...

Can be get back on topic ?

@WayTools_Support: can you please share in broad strokes what other significant hurdles remain on top of the firmware update ?

1. I've advocated for stuff like that - that is, IF (big "if") Treg finds no bugs you need to fix before shipping, how long would you keep Treg testing going just to be sure it is okay? 

2. I disagree with you

Ok, we agree on #1 and agree to disagree on #2 (enforced refunding):

You can't rationalize where to draw the line of when is ok and when it is not ok, because you can't. Is is a line not to be crossed. I think you agree that my previous example with Ford repossessing you car because you criticize them is ridiculous, right ?
Well, this is not that different.
The only difference is that in this case it is easy to accomplish and therefore you CAN do it, and the other it is not only illegal but also impractical so you CAN'T do it. Doing things because you can does not mean it is the right thing to do even if you want to.

1 year warranty
1 year replacement if they come out with a better version
Very low replacement price if you ruin your device.

True. When GR materializes all of these will be relevant. I do not recall much of the last one. Where did you read about that ?

edit: typos

WayTools_Support said:

Any chemically-based device, if not stored properly, can degrade just by sitting on the shelf.  That’s true of any kind of battery, or even just a bottle of certain liquid compounds,  since they are chemically based.

In particular, if cells are allowed to get hot, they will degrade on the shelf.

But any competent manufacturer stores their lithium ion cells at proper temperature, and charge level, to stabilize their shelf storage life.

As a result, the practical life of the cells is dominated by the number of charge / discharge cycles used.  Not time on the shelf.

A properly stored battery can last up to 20 years on the shelf. A 500 cycle life provides service for say, 3 years, like your phone.

Ergo, storing it properly for 3 years before entering service has no material effect on the 3 year useable life.  

To say they’ve ‘expired’ is contrived to mislead customers.

Tesla power walls are guaranteed for 10 years, and cars for 8 years.  Both warranties assume significant usage.  Shelf storage is gentler, so they will last even longer.

An iPhone’s battery, stored for 2 hours on the dashboard of a car parked in hot sun, can be permanently ruined. Does this mean the shelf storage life is 2 hours?

Obviously not, our phone batteries last years, not 2 hours, and we know not to leave them in the sun.

So stripping off the qualifier of “stored properly ” removes the entire meaning of the statement.

Good info. Did not know that. Seems reasonable. What about the state of the charge ? 

When you post the update this month at WT site please try to give enough info to covey a sense of timing for general release (with as many qualifiers and conditionals that you need). Thanks

dabigkahuna said:
I do hope this is the month we finally get the update. And while I am quite sure there will be things we'd like to know that they won't tell (nor should they), I certainly hope there is a lot of info we want. It certainly won't include a shipping date. We already know that the update comes first, followed later by Treg testing (we don't know how much later), and we certainly don't know how long that will last because, until we test, we don't know if we'll find problems.

Yes, but the update could be comprehensive enough to give not only a sense of the status of the firmware but convery also a sense of when GR COULD materialize given a set of assumptions, ie if after 3 months of TREG testing ok we move to production and shipping, etc

On the enforced refunds topic: I disagree with you. Feels like crossing a line that should not be crossed. I am not aware of any other company doing the same. People should not need to write in posts in the RANTS section of WTF "please don't cancel my order". Every time I read that phrase I inwardly cringe. Don't criticize Ford because they might come and reposes your car in the middle of the night. Oh but they deposit the money right away, so it must be ok, right? No, it is not.

Edit: typos

idea2go_twitter said:

One post from an individual who visited Waytools while traveling giving his impression of the technology and the people.  The other post from an individual that I've come to know and respect (through the testing discussions) with a strong technology background 

Thanks, I had read the 2nd one but not the first. Nice read. I am sure as I said above in my "attitudinal theory post" that Mark fits the profile of some tech geniuses I worked with. He must be able to charm his audience with the knowledge and passion when he turns it on. Everybody that met him seem to be in agreement. He must be very likable, charismatic and perhaps brilliant.

It fits my mental potential profile of him perfectly. But perhaps also the other not so positive aspects I mentioned in that post too that could explain quite a few posts here and at WTF that add no value to WT.

I have no doubt the TB is great piece of tech and most others who have ever placed their orders at one time might be in agreement.
I am now much more patient and willing to wait a bit longer than before given other experiences I outlined in other posts.
I do believe it will ship (sometime).

My issues summarized are:

- The banning: I (and many others) were unjustly banned. I could even post a link to a thread at WTF that got me banned for your to read (wouldlovetobuy at WTF) but besides the point.

- The "enforced" refunding: I can't believe that most if not all of posters at WTF need to clarity "please do not cancel my order" if they feel that what they point out is even marginally critical. People are afraid to talk even in the Rants section of WTF. That is nuts and I might say unprecedented.

- No Project Status Communication: Since early 2018 communication has degraded dramatically. They used to be frequent, then quarterly, the last in July 2018 after quite a few months gap and with not much new info, and since then we are not getting any updates. I started the "next updates post" at WTF, (quite popular with 374 posts and 25k views) because of the delay of WT posting an update. Now you can read a few others there in its place. People have been requesting updates and we are not getting them. Just a few comments here and there but nothing that outlines the overall project status and gives a sense of GR timing. 
Even here, I have asked them quite a few times for a more comprehensive updates even on broad terms with tentative dates but no luck as of yet.

- Too much time invested by WT in calling out potential secret unnamed organizations working against it, bad actors, etc etc, instead of them talking about their product and project status updates.