davidw

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davidw
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  • Google fined $177M by South Korea for abusing smartphone dominance


    sflocal said:
    I'm a bit mystified by this.  Why don't they allow others to fork Windows then?

    I find it odd that a government is forcing a company to make its own product (test, based on open-source) to be modified by others and used in however they want.  

    I supposed if they're to do that, then Google should require that it no longer be called Android.  So odd.
    It's Google that is allowing the forks of open source Android. No one if forcing Google to do this. Microsoft does not allow anyone to fork Windows. 

    The problem is that Google do not allow any device maker to market a device using a fork of open source Android, if they also market a device running the Google license version of Android.  Samsung is not allow to market a phone using a fork of open source Android because they sell phones that uses the Google license version of Android. The license version of Android comes with the Google Play Store installed and support all of Google services. 

    LG was going to make the Fire tablet for Amazon, that runs on a custom fork of open source Android, but had to drop out because they were selling phones and tablets  that had the Google license version of Android. They didn't want to risk losing that license by also making a device for Amazon, that was going to use a fork of open source Android. This is what Google is getting in trouble for. 

    It's like how Microsoft got in anti-trust  trouble when they prevented PC makers from selling computers with Linux, by threatening to cancel their Windows license. 

    Here's a nice but long article detailing how Google controls Android. Both their license version and their open source version. 


    https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2018/07/googles-iron-grip-on-android-controlling-open-source-by-any-means-necessary/
    muthuk_vanalingamsireofsethwatto_cobra
  • Apple not a monopoly but must allow alternate payment methods for apps, judge rules

    rundhvid said:
    davidw said:
    jcs2305 said:
    georgie01 said:

    So you think you're smarter than the judge? Go apply for her job.  Apple's a company, not your friend.  Sooner you realize that the better your life will be.  Apple got exactly what it deserved.
    So you believe that Apple should be required to allow developers to put their apps on Apple’s App Store for free and users download them for free and the developer can charge for the app outside of Apple’s App Store. So then Apple makes no money for providing a really easy place for the developers to distribute apps while spending money for the resources and infrastructure to maintain a secure App Store?

    Talk about a spoiled and entitled attitude…
    I have paid for Netflix and Youtube Premium outside of the app store for years now. Netflix premium is what actually made me aware of the 30% charge that Apple adds if you do the recurring payment through the app store. I was paying $12.99 a month , but I kept seeing the price advertised as $9.99? Eventually it dawned on the extra $3.00 was being put back on me because of Apple charging them 30% to handle the payment? I cancelled my subscription on my iPhone and set up my monthly billing through youtube's website. I have been paying $9.99 ever since.

    You can also sign up for Disney+ or their bundle with ESPN+ and Hulu on Disneyplus.com and pay them directly instead of through the app store.


    These services didn't steer me like Epic did by offering alternative payment options within the app, but the end result is still the same.



    That is wrong. One do not get a discount from Netflix (or YouTube Premium) for paying outside the platform. Whether paying on Android, iOS or a computer, Netflix charges the same.

    For one

    There is no $9.99 Netflix subscription plan. The lowest cost plan now is Basic and cost $8.99. Basic plan can only stream on 1 screen at a time and no HD. The Standard plan cost $13.99, stream on 2 screen at a time and has HD. The Premium plan cost $17.99  has 4K and can stream on 4 screen at a time. 

    For two

    $9.99 is not a 30% discount from $12.99. A 30% discount on $12.99 would be $3.90. So if you got a 30% discount, it should cost you $9.10.

    For three

    I don't think you can pay for your Netflix subscription on YouTube. And even if you could, you would not get a discount.

    For four

    About the only way to get a discount on your Netflix subscription is to buy discounted iTunes gift cards and use your iTunes account to pay for your subscription. But this has ended for new subscribers.

    https://runningwithmiles.boardingarea.com/a-trick-for-cheaper-netflix-has-ended-with-one-big-exception/

    I been paying for my Standard Netflix subscription for over 15 years now. I started when Netflix was only a mail order DVD rental business. And i've been paying using auto CC deduction since the second or third month. No discount given and no discount ever offered when they became a streaming service on mobile devices using their free app.  



     

    Back to school, Buddy: the mathematics of discount vs surcharge is a little more complicated than that 👀😳🥸


                  9,99

    +                30%

                  2,997

    --------------------

    =         12,987

    --------------------

    That's not the way it's done. 

    If Netflix is charging $12.99 for their Standard plan, Apple commission would be $3.89. If Netflix were to save on the commission and wanted to pass that saving to the subscriber, they would discount the $12.99 by $3.89 and not by $3.00. This is not like a surcharge or sales tax that the buyer pays. It is a commission that is based on the selling price of the app sold (Without any tax added), that the seller has to pay.

    If the buyer had to pay Apple the 30% commission after paying $9.99 and the seller collected the commission and turned it over to Apple, then it will work out the way you stated. But that is not the case. The seller is paying Apple the 30% commission based on the  price the buyer paid for it (without the tax). Apple does not remove the cost of the commission that the seller might have added to the final price, when calculating their commission. 

    Look at it this way. If Netflix wants to make $9.99 from selling a subscription plan, after paying the 30% commission, they don't charge $12.99 ($9.99 + $2.99). If they charge $12.99, Apple commission would be $3.89 not $2.99. And Netflix would only make $9.09. That's because Apple's commission would not be based on $9.99 but on the final selling price of $12.99. Netflix would need to charge $14.27, in order to make $9.99, after paying the 30% commission. 

    It goes like this 

    x -.3x = $9.99           where x is how much they have to charge in order to make $9.99, after paying the 30% commission (.3x) on x.

    3.33 x - x = $33.27

    2.33x = $33.27

    x = $14.27 


    BTW- if this guy been paying his/her Netflix subscription with iTunes for years, then Netflix would only be paying Apple a 15% commission after 1 year. Why would Netflix be giving him/her a 30% discount for paying outside iTunes? 

     
    elijahgrundhvidwatto_cobra
  • Apple not a monopoly but must allow alternate payment methods for apps, judge rules

    mubaili said:
    Apple could just ask any app that provides link to external payment must also support IAP, and the prices in the outside link must not be a better deal than what is offered in the IAP, and then drop the commissions to 10%, and call it a day. Would that stand in the court?
    That's the way it is now. No platform, not Apple, Google, Microsoft, Sony, Amazon or Nintendo, would allow a developer to sell their products that can be used on their platform, that can also be used on other platforms, cheaper on the other platform. And no platform owner would allow Epic to charge less, for playing the same game on another platform. If it were cheaper to play Fortnite on a Playstation, than on an Xbox, Microsoft would complain about it and force Epic to charge the same to play on an Xbox. 

    For instance, why would Microsoft agree to let Epic sell V-Bucks at a discount on their own website, that can be spent by players using an Xbox? All the Xbox players would just go online, using the Xbox none the less, to purchase their discounted V-Bucks and spend those V-Bucks while playing Fortnite on an Xbox. While bypassing Microsoft commission and yet be able to take advantage of what the Xbox has to offer.  

    When Epic advertised V-Bucks for iOS and Android at a discount, when purchased on their website, just before they were kicked out of the Google Play and Apple App stores, they had to offer the same discount on the Xbox, Playstation and Switch. They had to to appease Microsoft, Sony and Nintendo. Even though Epic still had to pay the 30% on game consoles.

    But iOS and Android players did not receive the discount if they purchased their V-bucks using iOS or Android. But Epic got kicked out soon anyway  and none of the already downloaded Epic Fortnite app could be updated to take advantage of the discount. So Epic gave these iOS and Android players matching V-Bucks that were already in their account, that can be used on other platforms. 


    https://www.theverge.com/2020/8/13/21366259/epic-fortnite-vbucks-mega-drop-discount-iphone-android/

    https://fortniteintel.com/epic-games-offer-free-v-bucks-to-mac-ios-users-following-apple-ban/36286/

    So even if Epic were to offer a discount for V-Bucks on iOS or Android, iOS and Android players would not really be getting a discount from Epic for not having to pay Google and Apple the 30%. Xbox, Playstation and Switch p[layers would also get the same discount, even though Epic is still paying the 30% there. 

    This is also true for nearly all subscription services and IAP, whose purchases are accessible on multiple platforms (by usually using a free app). Netflix, Spotify, Apple Music, YouTube, HBO, Disney, Hulu, etc. all cost the same, no matter which platform you close to pay from.

    But one can get a discount by purchasing discounted iTunes gift card and using iTunes to pay for them. (One can do the same on Android with discounted Google Play gift cards.). This includes the IAP of V-Bucks.

    https://www.yahoo.com/now/secret-way-discount-netflix-every-160513614.html


     
    n2itivguywatto_cobra
  • Apple not a monopoly but must allow alternate payment methods for apps, judge rules

    jcs2305 said:
    georgie01 said:

    So you think you're smarter than the judge? Go apply for her job.  Apple's a company, not your friend.  Sooner you realize that the better your life will be.  Apple got exactly what it deserved.
    So you believe that Apple should be required to allow developers to put their apps on Apple’s App Store for free and users download them for free and the developer can charge for the app outside of Apple’s App Store. So then Apple makes no money for providing a really easy place for the developers to distribute apps while spending money for the resources and infrastructure to maintain a secure App Store?

    Talk about a spoiled and entitled attitude…
    I have paid for Netflix and Youtube Premium outside of the app store for years now. Netflix premium is what actually made me aware of the 30% charge that Apple adds if you do the recurring payment through the app store. I was paying $12.99 a month , but I kept seeing the price advertised as $9.99? Eventually it dawned on the extra $3.00 was being put back on me because of Apple charging them 30% to handle the payment? I cancelled my subscription on my iPhone and set up my monthly billing through youtube's website. I have been paying $9.99 ever since.

    You can also sign up for Disney+ or their bundle with ESPN+ and Hulu on Disneyplus.com and pay them directly instead of through the app store.


    These services didn't steer me like Epic did by offering alternative payment options within the app, but the end result is still the same.



    That is wrong. One do not get a discount from Netflix (or YouTube Premium) for paying outside the platform. Whether paying on Android, iOS or a computer, Netflix charges the same.

    For one

    There is no $9.99 Netflix subscription plan. The lowest cost plan now is Basic and cost $8.99. Basic plan can only stream on 1 screen at a time and no HD. The Standard plan cost $13.99, stream on 2 screen at a time and has HD. The Premium plan cost $17.99  has 4K and can stream on 4 screen at a time. 

    For two

    $9.99 is not a 30% discount from $12.99. A 30% discount on $12.99 would be $3.90. So if you got a 30% discount, it should cost you $9.10.

    For three

    I don't think you can pay for your Netflix subscription on YouTube. And even if you could, you would not get a discount.

    For four

    About the only way to get a discount on your Netflix subscription is to buy discounted iTunes gift cards and use your iTunes account to pay for your subscription. But this has ended for new subscribers.

    https://runningwithmiles.boardingarea.com/a-trick-for-cheaper-netflix-has-ended-with-one-big-exception/

    I been paying for my Standard Netflix subscription for over 15 years now. I started when Netflix was only a mail order DVD rental business. And i've been paying using auto CC deduction since the second or third month. No discount given and no discount ever offered when they became a streaming service on mobile devices using their free app.  



     
    radarthekattenthousandthingsthtn2itivguywatto_cobra
  • Epic asks Apple to reinstate developer account so it can re-release 'Fortnite' in Korea [u...

    I'm not aware that S.Korea new law placed a ban on Apple 15%-30% commission. Just that developers can use their own payment systems. This is not like the suits going on  elsewhere, where developers are complaining about Apple 30% commission as being an abuse of a "monopoly".  

    i would think all Apple have to do is to tell Epic that they will be allowed in the Apple App Store in S. Korea, as soon as they develop a payment system that keeps track of the 15% or 30% commission, that they would still owe Apple. (Or whatever commission rate Apple negotiate with developers with their own payment system.) Since Epic would probably still be required to collect the sales tax for S. Korea, it shouldn't be too hard for developers to also collect the "Apple tax" for Apple. 

    I don't remember Apple ever claiming that the App store 15% or 30% commission is solely for processing the payment for the developers. Though there seems to be a lot of people that seems to think that that's all the commission pays for.  
    spock1234Detnatordarkpawllamawatto_cobrajony0