plovell

vbmalone said:

I always feel the people that are so concerned about the government seeing our personal data must have something to hide.  When are people going to realize that using any type of electronic device or the internet to document your lives and personal data are no longer a secret.  If you don't want anyone to see it don't put it on your phone, computer or the cloud.  Use a good old fashion notebook that would need a search warrant.

The point that you miss is that the Fourth Amendment says that our private stuff is private. Look seriously at your first sentence ...
"I always feel the people that are so concerned about the government seeing our personal data must have something to hide"
This is bass-awkward. The government does not have an automatic right to see everything we do. It has to have a reason, and then a warrant.

The issue with people documenting their lives with FaceBook etc is entirely different. They are choosing to eviscerate their privacy, unwisely in my estimation. There is no compulsion that they do so. But I regard my personally-protected electronic devices as part of my house. A number of Courts, although not all, agree with that position. If you want to see it, get a warrant. 

JohanSilentio said:

Nice try, Apple Insider. But no cigar...or whatever it is folks like you smoke. Now it's time to come clean and help your Uncle Sam close this case on those mass murderers. Or maybe you're on their side. Maybe you think mass murder is cool, hmmmmm?

But Johan, what the heck are YOU smoking ??  The case on these two is closed. They're dead. Seriously deceased. Game over, man!

The FBI and local police have already established that they didn't have helpers, weren't part of a larger cell and weren't involved with or directed by any foreign terrorist organization. They had sympathies with some, but weren't "part of" those organizations.

So, just what do you want in order to "close this case" ?? 

Saying that you just want the FBI to have the contents of their phone is "cool" but totally beside the point.
(1) it is not and never was "their phone". It is a phone from the employer (the county health dept)
(2) they had their own, personal phones, and these were thoroughly destroyed
(3) do you really think that he would have put serious, incriminating stuff on his WORK PHONE?? Seriously, do you?? When he had his own, private phone?

So, Johan, try for a second post and do better this time. Think about the scenario and do some research first. This community is forgiving but tolerance does have its bounds. You're pushing them already.

DjTBA said:

 What I'd like to know  does Apple plan on dealing with that pesky little thing called a Federal Court Order to help the FBI. Their plan of throwing OS software under the 1st Amendment is delusional at best.

It's called the "appeals process". The Federal Court Order is subject to appeal, which Apple has already initiated. There are several reasons why this Order will probably be quashed. First is that the Order under the All Writs Act is inappropriate since there is specific legislation (CALEA). A second is that the action required is "unduly burdensome" since Apple does not have the software, but would be forced to create it. Third is that, as the Order is written, the task is impossible. It specifies that the bypass code MUST run in RAM and must not change what's in flash storage. As I understand it, that's not how DFU mode works. It writes the image to flash. Whether or not the First Amendment issue is delusional or not is of no consequence.

msantti said:

plovell said:

Anyone who believes this case is about terrorism just isn't paying attention. The FBI doesn't need the contents of this phone - they already have a few-weeks-old version and it's most unlikely that there's anything of substance to be had. remember - this is a work-supplied phone, not his personal one. That was thoroughly destroyed. Is it likely he put incriminating details on his work phone rather than the personal one? No. The two shooters are dead, so no more charges there. The police and FBI have already established that they were not part of a bigger terrorist cell, or a network of cells, although some people have been charged with non-terrorist offenses. Nor were they under the control of or affiliated with any foreign group. So what's the big upside for the FBI to get this data? None, for this specific case. What it is is the test case to force Apple ro build the tool for them to use in the other nine pending case (yes - despite FBI Director's comments that this is for one case only, there are at least nine others that have been filed). None of these are terrorism-related, by the way. And the New York DA says that he has 175 iPhones that he wants Apple to unlock. So, we all see where this is going and it is not to a good place. Of course, the biggest supporters of the FBI here are China, India, Saudi Arabia and other Gulf states with repressive regimes. They will most certainly push on Apple for this tool if it is ever built. That is why it is important that it never is.

What happens next time?

And the time after that?

Even Michael Hayden, former director of the NSA and the CIA, has said that the FBI's position is wrong. 

The point here is that all the warrantless-collection did not stop 9/11, nor did it stop this case. Nor the Boston bomber. The police and FBI had information but didn't connect the dots. They're looking for one or two needles in a very big haystack. Is more hay going to help?? No.

But getting more hay will put the rest of us at risk. Backdoor crypto is a threat far greater.

Anyone who believes this case is about terrorism just isn't paying attention. The FBI doesn't need the contents of this phone - they already have a few-weeks-old version and it's most unlikely that there's anything of substance to be had. remember - this is a work-supplied phone, not his personal one. That was thoroughly destroyed. Is it likely he put incriminating details on his work phone rather than the personal one? No. The two shooters are dead, so no more charges there. The police and FBI have already established that they were not part of a bigger terrorist cell, or a network of cells, although some people have been charged with non-terrorist offenses. Nor were they under the control of or affiliated with any foreign group. So what's the big upside for the FBI to get this data? None, for this specific case. What it is is the test case to force Apple ro build the tool for them to use in the other nine pending case (yes - despite FBI Director's comments that this is for one case only, there are at least nine others that have been filed). None of these are terrorism-related, by the way. And the New York DA says that he has 175 iPhones that he wants Apple to unlock. So, we all see where this is going and it is not to a good place. Of course, the biggest supporters of the FBI here are China, India, Saudi Arabia and other Gulf states with repressive regimes. They will most certainly push on Apple for this tool if it is ever built. That is why it is important that it never is.