titantiger

Happy_Noodle_Boy said:

titantiger said:

Happy_Noodle_Boy said:

titantiger said:

Happy_Noodle_Boy said:

titantiger said:

Happy_Noodle_Boy said:

For people wondering why the new low end iMacs didn’t come in at previous generation’s lower price point, it's kinda typical for Apple to reset the price with a major redesign. 

iMac G3 started at $1299 
iMac G4 started at $1299
iMac G5 started at $1299
iMac Intel stated at $1299
iMac Intel AL started at $1199
iMac Intel AL thin at  $1299

With the exception of the G4 each one went down in price over it's lifetime and then with a single exception the price went back to 1299 with the next redesign. The G4 iMacs were a little weird because they had the eMac come out which took the place of low end iMac. So there shouldn't be much surprise  when it comes to the price tag, it’s been remarkably consistent. Also, if you adjust for inflation the iMacs today cost about half as much as the original G3.

This makes some sense.  My only issue with this one compared to previous redesigns is that you didn't step backwards in functionality outside of when they finally ditched the optical drive with the last version of the Intel aluminum one.  Before, the iMac either kept the same number or even added USB, Thunderbolt or Firewire ports.  It kept ethernet as a standard option, not a configurable one for more money.  And the only differentiator in the $1299 one and the same size ones that were more expensive were things like more memory, larger HDD or SSD, or a faster processor.  The entry level one didn't lack any features or functionality that the upgraded one had - it just had a slower processor, integrated graphics instead of discrete ones, less RAM, less storage space.  

But with this one, they did return to the $1299 entry price but regressed on these kinds of things - just two thunderbolt ports, no ethernet.  It doesn't come with the Touch ID keyboard.  It's just, to me, a step backwards in terms how Apple has handled these redesign transitions in the past.  

To me, dropping legacy ports seems totally inline with what has happened in the past, Firewire 400, Firewire 800, Thunderbolt 1+2, USB 1+2, dial-up modems, IR sensors, VGA/Various display ports were all in the iMac at one point but were dropped  (IR got dropped twice!) as the product moved forward. This one has USB 4 and Thunderbolt 3 so while they reduced the number of ports they at least progressed the technology. 

As far as the entry level one simply being differentiated by processor, graphics and ram and storage, that isn't correct. When Apple introduced the iMac DV it had a DVD ROM, Firewire and a VGA port that the entry level iMac introduced at the same time didn't have. Similarly when the CD-RW and Superdrive were announced, those features weren't options for the entry level. There may be other examples but I'm not going to look through the entire history of iMacs. 

In the end it is all kind of subjective, when the iMac first came out there were wildly different thoughts on it only having USB and ditching the floppy. Over the two decades of it's of its existence there has always been pretty strong and disagreeing opinions when Apple has updated the product. So there is no reason to think this round would be any different. When it comes to thinking this is a step backward, that's totally your prerogative and while I disagree I see where you are coming form and respect that opinion. Hat to Apple for keeping it consistently controversial. 

But in this case, they didn't drop legacy ports.  They just gave you fewer ports, period.  The mid and upper level versions give you four, the $1299 gives you two.  That's not something they'd done in the past.

They dropped the USB Type A ports from the previous models = Dropped legacy ports. The new models have USB 4 which wasn't present on the previous models. So all the new models support USB 4 while the older models didn't.

When the slot loaded iMacs were first announced the intro level had two USB ports, the mid tier was the iMac DV and had two USB ports, two Firewire 400 ports and a VGA port, the iMac DV SE two USB ports, two Firewire 400 ports, a VGA port and a DVD ROM. So they have had two ports on the low end and five on the mid and high end before. 

This time is slightly different, while the low end machine has fewer ports it at least has the faster ports unlike the slot loaded iMac which had the slower of the four ports. 

But when the dropped a legacy port, they replaced it with whatever the more current version was.  You ended up with the same number of ports in the end.  Or really close to it. With this one you're going from six overall ports (seven if you count the SD card reader) to two.

From the last G3 iMac to the last 21.5" iMac "thin" aluminum, you had at least 4 ports even on the lowest model:

Last G3:  2 USB-1, 2 Firewire 400 (4 total)

First G4:  3 USB-1, 2 FW 400 (5 total)

First G5:  3 USB-1, 2 FW 400 (5 total)

First Core Duo:  3 USB, 2 FW 400 (5 total)
First 20" Alum.:  3 USB, 1 FW 400, 1 FW 800 (5 total)
First 21.5" Alum.: 4 USB 2.0, 1 FW 800 (5 total)
First "thin" 21.5" Alum.:  4 USB 3.0 (4 total)

And all of the above had ethernet for no extra cost.  And somewhere around the Core Duo stage also had an SD slot

But now for the lowest model you get no ethernet unless you pay extra, no SD slot, and just 2 Thunderbolt/USB 4 ports.

That's what I'm getting at.  This is a big difference from past patterns.

Okay I see what you are saying, that wasn't total clear when you said; "The mid and upper level versions give you four, the $1299 gives you two. That's not something they'd done in the past." It sounded like you saying there had never been a difference between the tiers of a new model. 

I concede that that the new iMac has fewer ports than the previous iMac and that is new. I still disagree that it's a big deal, but that's okay. 

Happy_Noodle_Boy said:

titantiger said:

Happy_Noodle_Boy said:

titantiger said:

Happy_Noodle_Boy said:

For people wondering why the new low end iMacs didn’t come in at previous generation’s lower price point, it's kinda typical for Apple to reset the price with a major redesign. 

iMac G3 started at $1299 
iMac G4 started at $1299
iMac G5 started at $1299
iMac Intel stated at $1299
iMac Intel AL started at $1199
iMac Intel AL thin at  $1299

With the exception of the G4 each one went down in price over it's lifetime and then with a single exception the price went back to 1299 with the next redesign. The G4 iMacs were a little weird because they had the eMac come out which took the place of low end iMac. So there shouldn't be much surprise  when it comes to the price tag, it’s been remarkably consistent. Also, if you adjust for inflation the iMacs today cost about half as much as the original G3.

This makes some sense.  My only issue with this one compared to previous redesigns is that you didn't step backwards in functionality outside of when they finally ditched the optical drive with the last version of the Intel aluminum one.  Before, the iMac either kept the same number or even added USB, Thunderbolt or Firewire ports.  It kept ethernet as a standard option, not a configurable one for more money.  And the only differentiator in the $1299 one and the same size ones that were more expensive were things like more memory, larger HDD or SSD, or a faster processor.  The entry level one didn't lack any features or functionality that the upgraded one had - it just had a slower processor, integrated graphics instead of discrete ones, less RAM, less storage space.  

But with this one, they did return to the $1299 entry price but regressed on these kinds of things - just two thunderbolt ports, no ethernet.  It doesn't come with the Touch ID keyboard.  It's just, to me, a step backwards in terms how Apple has handled these redesign transitions in the past.  

To me, dropping legacy ports seems totally inline with what has happened in the past, Firewire 400, Firewire 800, Thunderbolt 1+2, USB 1+2, dial-up modems, IR sensors, VGA/Various display ports were all in the iMac at one point but were dropped  (IR got dropped twice!) as the product moved forward. This one has USB 4 and Thunderbolt 3 so while they reduced the number of ports they at least progressed the technology. 

As far as the entry level one simply being differentiated by processor, graphics and ram and storage, that isn't correct. When Apple introduced the iMac DV it had a DVD ROM, Firewire and a VGA port that the entry level iMac introduced at the same time didn't have. Similarly when the CD-RW and Superdrive were announced, those features weren't options for the entry level. There may be other examples but I'm not going to look through the entire history of iMacs. 

In the end it is all kind of subjective, when the iMac first came out there were wildly different thoughts on it only having USB and ditching the floppy. Over the two decades of it's of its existence there has always been pretty strong and disagreeing opinions when Apple has updated the product. So there is no reason to think this round would be any different. When it comes to thinking this is a step backward, that's totally your prerogative and while I disagree I see where you are coming form and respect that opinion. Hat to Apple for keeping it consistently controversial. 

But in this case, they didn't drop legacy ports.  They just gave you fewer ports, period.  The mid and upper level versions give you four, the $1299 gives you two.  That's not something they'd done in the past.

They dropped the USB Type A ports from the previous models = Dropped legacy ports. The new models have USB 4 which wasn't present on the previous models. So all the new models support USB 4 while the older models didn't.

When the slot loaded iMacs were first announced the intro level had two USB ports, the mid tier was the iMac DV and had two USB ports, two Firewire 400 ports and a VGA port, the iMac DV SE two USB ports, two Firewire 400 ports, a VGA port and a DVD ROM. So they have had two ports on the low end and five on the mid and high end before. 

This time is slightly different, while the low end machine has fewer ports it at least has the faster ports unlike the slot loaded iMac which had the slower of the four ports. 

Happy_Noodle_Boy said:

titantiger said:

Happy_Noodle_Boy said:

For people wondering why the new low end iMacs didn’t come in at previous generation’s lower price point, it's kinda typical for Apple to reset the price with a major redesign. 

iMac G3 started at $1299 
iMac G4 started at $1299
iMac G5 started at $1299
iMac Intel stated at $1299
iMac Intel AL started at $1199
iMac Intel AL thin at  $1299

With the exception of the G4 each one went down in price over it's lifetime and then with a single exception the price went back to 1299 with the next redesign. The G4 iMacs were a little weird because they had the eMac come out which took the place of low end iMac. So there shouldn't be much surprise  when it comes to the price tag, it’s been remarkably consistent. Also, if you adjust for inflation the iMacs today cost about half as much as the original G3.

This makes some sense.  My only issue with this one compared to previous redesigns is that you didn't step backwards in functionality outside of when they finally ditched the optical drive with the last version of the Intel aluminum one.  Before, the iMac either kept the same number or even added USB, Thunderbolt or Firewire ports.  It kept ethernet as a standard option, not a configurable one for more money.  And the only differentiator in the $1299 one and the same size ones that were more expensive were things like more memory, larger HDD or SSD, or a faster processor.  The entry level one didn't lack any features or functionality that the upgraded one had - it just had a slower processor, integrated graphics instead of discrete ones, less RAM, less storage space.  

But with this one, they did return to the $1299 entry price but regressed on these kinds of things - just two thunderbolt ports, no ethernet.  It doesn't come with the Touch ID keyboard.  It's just, to me, a step backwards in terms how Apple has handled these redesign transitions in the past.  

To me, dropping legacy ports seems totally inline with what has happened in the past, Firewire 400, Firewire 800, Thunderbolt 1+2, USB 1+2, dial-up modems, IR sensors, VGA/Various display ports were all in the iMac at one point but were dropped  (IR got dropped twice!) as the product moved forward. This one has USB 4 and Thunderbolt 3 so while they reduced the number of ports they at least progressed the technology. 

As far as the entry level one simply being differentiated by processor, graphics and ram and storage, that isn't correct. When Apple introduced the iMac DV it had a DVD ROM, Firewire and a VGA port that the entry level iMac introduced at the same time didn't have. Similarly when the CD-RW and Superdrive were announced, those features weren't options for the entry level. There may be other examples but I'm not going to look through the entire history of iMacs. 

In the end it is all kind of subjective, when the iMac first came out there were wildly different thoughts on it only having USB and ditching the floppy. Over the two decades of it's of its existence there has always been pretty strong and disagreeing opinions when Apple has updated the product. So there is no reason to think this round would be any different. When it comes to thinking this is a step backward, that's totally your prerogative and while I disagree I see where you are coming form and respect that opinion. Hat to Apple for keeping it consistently controversial.