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Contact tracing app vetted by Apple found to share data with Foursquare and Google
Absolutely right. The whole point (and of lockdown) is to manage the infection rate and buy time until we have an effective vaccine. The alternative is to let nature take its course and achieve herd immunity by letting the weak (those who get a bad reaction) just die. Not much of a strategy for a government or an individual.mjtomlin said:apple ][ said:Sorry, but I won't be downloading any of these "contact tracing" apps, no matter who is behind them. They are a bit too late also, in my opinion, now that things are beginning to relax and loosen up everywhere. The hysteria has gone far enough.
I completely disagree with you... NOW is the best time to start contact tracing and using this Exposure Notification API. ANYTHING to help warn people that they might be infected so they can quarantine themselves to mitigate the spread of the virus to others.
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Contact tracing app vetted by Apple found to share data with Foursquare and Google
Really? I trust Apple (beyond the usual errors that everyone makes), mostly because their motives are clear. At worst, it's not in their selfish interest not to protect our data. You have to pick who you trust but you do have to pick someone; if not, bin that smart phone, and the feature phone, because the network tracks them all. They kind-of have to, of course, so they can deliver your calls to you.lkrupp said:Anyone who downloads and installs these contact tracing apps should have their heads examined. We can’t trust ANY of these bastards, including Apple.
As to "these tracing apps", they aren't all the same. The Apple/Google framework is yet to be released* so it can't have failed already, the UK's NHS app uses entirely an different implementation and they've open-sourced their software so that the ethical hackers can help them improve it.
You can't use the fact that one app sounds as though it's dodgy to condemn the whole class. That's like saying Android phones are poor so iPhones must be too.
*My bad: it was released yesterday. I think my point still stands.
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Apple-Google Exposure Notification system worthless due to privacy policies, health expert...
And I thought that was why the UK government spends so much money on the NHS (National Health Service).inTIMidator said:
Governments do not give a sh!t about saving ANY life unless they can control or tax it.jcs2305 said:
Unless it was your life saved, or a person you cared very much about. Then there would be no mention of silliness. 🤦♂️apple ][ said:
No sorry, they will just have to die. One life is not worth it.gregoriusm said:Or save even one life...
The saving 1 life argument is a very silly one to make in my opinion. -
UK 'racing' to improve contact tracing privacy without Apple and Google
We (in the UK) seem to be developing the same trait that I see in the US: we automatically assume that everything the government, civil service or any other authority does must be wrong/useless/vindictive. We all like to moan, it's therapeutic after all, but it's important to be level-headed about serious issues. Creating or spreading fake news is not sensible, particularly about this worldwide crisis.seanj said:
Ladies and gentlemen, we have a conspiracy theorist in the house! This is the kind of vitriolic fake news communists in the U.K. spout all the time these days. Not surprisingly the public voted for Brexit, destroyed their party in the recent general election, and why the government has the highest poll ratings and confidence ever.darkpaw said:Reasons why I'm not going to use this app:
- The development of the app was given to a specific company. It was not sent out to tender. Now, you can argue that we don't have a lot of time and we needed it developed quickly, BUT...
- The reported budget for the app was £250 MILLION... (Not sure on the veracity of that figure, but it's been widely reported. It may just be part of the deal between UK.gov and Palantir/Faculty.)
- It is being developed by both Palantir (run by the right-wing billionaire Peter Thiel) and Faculty...
- Faculty is an AI startup run by someone called Marc Warner...
- Marc Warner's brother is Ben Warner...
- Ben Warner was recruited to Downing Street by Dominic Cummings (if you don't who DC is, he's basically an unelected advisor to our inimitable dickwad, Boris Johnson)...
- Ben Warner was instrumental in the Vote Leave campaign.
Further:
- Dr Ian Levy is Technical Director of the National Cyber Security Centre. He put out a blog post pretty much saying, "Everything is fine. We won't grab your data, no-sireeeee, and we absolutely won't expand the remit of this app, until we absolutely feel the need to do exactly that". Within hours, NHSX said they'll expand the remit of the app where necessary. So-called "mission creep".
- The app ONLY works for NHS England, so spending any time with someone from, say, Wales or Scotland, won't work because they won't be using the NHS England app; they'll be using the NHS Wales or NHS Scotland app.
- The app will NOT work with the Apple/Google solution which means if you go abroad, neither your device nor anyone else's will match, so will record zero interactions.
So, no. I won't be downloading this app.
The Apple/Google solution would've been exactly what we needed, and it works across borders. Apple even provided the source code necessary to create a functioning app. Sadly, our government thinks it's the dog bollox when it comes to everything, so they've gone off on their own.
You wonder why the UK currently has the highest number of Covid-19 deaths in Europe? Because our government is pathetic. Our MPs are idiots. Our Health Secretary, Matt Hancock, said he wanted to test 100,000 people a day by the end of April. 30th April comes along and lo and behold we hit 122,000 tests! Oh, sorry, no, we hit 76,000 tests. The other 46,000 tests were actually just mailed out and hadn't actually been used. They did this to save his political career. In the days following the 30th April we tested 66,000 people then 56,000 people.
The UK is an f-ing joke.
So I agree with Seanj and I urge everyone to check so-called facts before repeating them. The problem with conspiracy theories is that they appeal with their apparent simplicity and the opportunity to say "You're naive, I know better than you". They are also impossible to disprove because conspiracy theorists simply reject all contrary evidence as being part of the conspiracy. So, hot news: the Tooth Fairy is real, all those parents are lying about where the coins came from and you try proving me wrong
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I think it's best not to bring Brexit into this though. I do believe it's real, however unlikely it seems, and I do believe we're stuck with it now.
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UK 'racing' to improve contact tracing privacy without Apple and Google
When Lewis Carroll had the Queen of Hearts say "Sentence first, verdict afterwards" in Alice’s Adventures in Wonderland, he was being satirical. I think it's a little early to write-off the NHS app when it has yet to start its large scale testing.
I urge those commenting on this to read the Ian Levy article before leaping to conclusions. For starters, the NHS app works keeps all contact data on device until (and unless) the user chooses to report that they are unwell - just like the Apple/Google solution. The data then reported doesn't contain location data except a manual, broad approximation to your home address (there's no GPS data), all the identities are anonymised (like Apple/Google). If you don't believe the data stays on device then ponder how long it will take someone to discover if it is reporting data without user choice.
The difference is in the processing where the NHS app, at the expense of a potential privacy impact from holding anonymised data centrally, can do more analysis of how the virus affects the population. You need to go to the last page of the supporting document to read what this is but, essentially, the centralised data allows analysis of the spread from the perspective of the contacts with the reporting (sick) person, not just the reporting person; it is intuitively clear that this is more powerful.
There is a privacy concern but, here and now, there are lives at stake. Later on, there must be a robust discussion on how the tracing is going to stop and the data be protected from non-covid analyses.
I share concerns over the practicality of the app using Bluetooth whilst in background: if they haven't got a decent solution to this then they really have screwed up. However, AI reported on 27th April (Britain's NHS rejects the Apple & Google COVID-19 exposure notification technology):
"Engineers have met several core challenges for the app to meet public health needs," an NHSX spokeswoman told the BBC, "and support detection of contact events sufficiently well, including when the app is in the background, without excessively affecting battery life."
and:
The BBC notes that Apple and Google have supported the British team, and NHSX's own statement repeats that. "We are working with Apple and Google on their welcome support for tracing apps around the world,".
And suppose that all this is not (quite) true: this will be the only app usable in the UK. For better or worse, are you really not going to run it and support easing the lockdown and saving lives because there might be a small (or even big) privacy impact later? I'm Mr Paranoid when it comes to giving up my data (I don't use Facebook, as a random example) but we live in exceptional times and I shall be making an exception here, even if HMG might screw up later.
