brian green

I have the 7 Plus 256GB model and I paid out around a grand for it then.  While I'm sure there are TONS of people out there who can shell out a grand all the time for a phone, it really hurt to purchase it, but I knew it'd last me several years.  I'll one day purchase a new one, but that won't be this year, and probably won't be next year either.

GeorgeBMac said:

brian green said:

This comparison reminds me of the days when Phil would do a speed test on stage with the latest and greatest PC versus the Mac, and the Mac would always win.  It was a smack down.  

I think the best thing we can do as a computer community is show Apple that they persistently come up short, and that engineers ought to actually focus on the best specs possible, rather than settling for average or bare minimum for a premium price point.  

I'd love to see Phil out there again with a MacBook Pro trouncing the competition like they did in the old days.  Sadly, when all of the components are off the shelf compatible to every other manufacturer, Apple would have to make the conscious decision to spec out a laptop with that specifically in mind, and it's my opinion that Apple engineers have no plans to be the best in regard to performance.  

I am aware that a critical component to functionality is the OS itself and Windows 10 has made significant improvements in stability from what I've read.  MacOS is stable, and functional, while I believe we're well past the days of seeing significant improvements and speed increases from one version of the OS to another.  Most of us run the latest version and it "just works", much to our daily contentment.  I feel the significant disparity is revealed in speed of workflow throughput.  We've seen 4k become the standard for video, and HEVC has proved a significant space saver while remaining visibly lossless to the average user, yet creating more work to be done by the CPU and GPU.  I have not seen a noticeable speed improvement with the change of filesystem to APFS either.   When we're seeing other laptops outperforming the MacBook Pro, it's not only a loss of pride in the brand we choose to spend our hard earned money on, it's also taking more time because the laptops we're offered by Apple Engineers are less capable than those by other manufacturers.  

It has been my opinion, for several generations of Mac products, that Apple Engineers have cared significantly less about performance, and more about esthetics.  While Apple laptops look nice, they fall short in providing the best performance for their Prosumer users, which is truly unfortunate for those of us who refuse to leave the Mac ecosystem.  When the components of laptops are largely from the same vendors and assembled by other manufacturers, it's harder to differentiate them.  While I hope Apple persists in incorporating more of their own chips into their products, I am finding it difficult to imagine the day when Phil will be back out on that stage showing us the Mac trouncing the PC once again.  At least the Mac will look nice though.

Not that I disagree with anything you said, but comparing MacOS to Windows only on the basis of stability, is only part of the equation:   MacOS is generally more user friendly and world's more secure.  For me, security is a major selling point.   (On the other hand, Windows has more "apps" available).

And too:  Don't forget the entire Apple Ecosystem that simply doesn't exist in the world of Windows.   I love how my Apple Watch unlocks my MacBook and how my messages flow between my Watch, my phone and my MacBook - etc, etc, etc,....

And, even on the strictly hardware basis:   Apple tends to provide products that go beyond simple glitzy technical features and instead fit the needs of the user.  It's what set Steve apart:   The blend of technical guru and artsy/humanities genius where he could blend the two to come up a product that was greater than the sum of its parts.  Apple continues to do it on their other products but has been falling off lately on their Mac line.  I have confidence that they'll get the mojo back (even if they stick to off the shelf components).

I agree completely with what you've said, and I'm fully immersed in the Mac ecosystem.  My first Mac ran System 7.  My primary concern is, and this is purely my opinion, that Apple Engineers have chosen to choose less than the best components while choosing to embrace the esthetics of the form factor, be it desktop or laptop.  I have both.  

I remain cautiously optimistic that Apple will somehow create a chip of its own specifically for those with video work.  If you would like to experience true pain, work with RED video sometime.  As it is, I find 4k video shot on an iPhone using HEVC to be taxing in FCP when, again in my opinion, the MBP ought to chew it up and spit it out without so much as breaking a sweat.  This has not been my experience.  Perhaps Apple ought to create a MBP with a different form factor specifically for those who do video work that will stress the system significantly more than the "typical" user in their day to day workflows.  As I see it, Apple Engineers are not interested in breaking from their absolutely-thin-is-best policy, and that, in my opinion, is truly unfortunate for all those who use their laptops for more than classroom work or boardroom presentations.  

At this point, I'd be more than happy with Apple re-releasing the old G3 "Wallstreet" Powerbook form factor (mine still works), with all of the heat management to keep it cool for video editing.  I don't mind a thick laptop, and I don't mind a heavy laptop, especially if it's a beast using MacOS and kicking ass and taking names.  

This comparison reminds me of the days when Phil would do a speed test on stage with the latest and greatest PC versus the Mac, and the Mac would always win.  It was a smack down.  

I think the best thing we can do as a computer community is show Apple that they persistently come up short, and that engineers ought to actually focus on the best specs possible, rather than settling for average or bare minimum for a premium price point.  

I'd love to see Phil out there again with a MacBook Pro trouncing the competition like they did in the old days.  Sadly, when all of the components are off the shelf compatible to every other manufacturer, Apple would have to make the conscious decision to spec out a laptop with that specifically in mind, and it's my opinion that Apple engineers have no plans to be the best in regard to performance.  

I am aware that a critical component to functionality is the OS itself and Windows 10 has made significant improvements in stability from what I've read.  MacOS is stable, and functional, while I believe we're well past the days of seeing significant improvements and speed increases from one version of the OS to another.  Most of us run the latest version and it "just works", much to our daily contentment.  I feel the significant disparity is revealed in speed of workflow throughput.  We've seen 4k become the standard for video, and HEVC has proved a significant space saver while remaining visibly lossless to the average user, yet creating more work to be done by the CPU and GPU.  I have not seen a noticeable speed improvement with the change of filesystem to APFS either.   When we're seeing other laptops outperforming the MacBook Pro, it's not only a loss of pride in the brand we choose to spend our hard earned money on, it's also taking more time because the laptops we're offered by Apple Engineers are less capable than those by other manufacturers.  

It has been my opinion, for several generations of Mac products, that Apple Engineers have cared significantly less about performance, and more about esthetics.  While Apple laptops look nice, they fall short in providing the best performance for their Prosumer users, which is truly unfortunate for those of us who refuse to leave the Mac ecosystem.  When the components of laptops are largely from the same vendors and assembled by other manufacturers, it's harder to differentiate them.  While I hope Apple persists in incorporating more of their own chips into their products, I am finding it difficult to imagine the day when Phil will be back out on that stage showing us the Mac trouncing the PC once again.  At least the Mac will look nice though.

Years ago, I had a G4 MBP, that got so hot that I had to purchase an aluminum stand for it with integrated fans that would blow cool air along the bottom of the laptop in order to keep it cool.  I’m not sure how the G4 laptop’s heat and the i9 compare, but I remember that was what we had to do in order to cool it.

I also remember a photo that was shared on this site of a rendering of a G5 laptop that was three inches thick, most of which were heat dissipation fins on the bottom with the words “Because You Couldn’t Wait” written above it.  The solution back then was to abandon the PPC chipsets and migrate to Intel.

The question I have is a technical one, and one I don’t have any knowledge about, but I’m sure many members of this forum do.  We know that Grand Central Dispatch is a part of MacOS and that tasks can be divided up among multiple cores to speed up workloads.  The question I have is, is it possible to use this feature to have an older chip in the MBP with more cores that can complete the tasks faster than the newer chips because the older chip produces less heat?  Not sure if that’s the case, but it would seem that MacOS’s UNIX base would allow such a thing to happen.  Sure, it’s the Sherman Tank answer to the problem but from a layperson’s perspective, it seems to me that more cores running slower ought to be able to complete tasks faster because there wouldn’t be thermal throttling.  

Another thing I’ve wondered about is whether Apple could integrate the A10 Fusion (or whatever’s next) into the laptop in order to complete tasks in a cooler manner than the Intel chip?  We already know that the A10 Fusion is able to handle 4k video editing, because we can do it on the iPhone and iPad.  Wouldn’t it be possible to use the chips in tandem to complete work faster, creating less heat?  Using the Intel chip for functions that the A-Series chips can’t complete while having more cores to separate tasks out just seems like a possible next step.  

It seems we’re at a point where we’re having to see Apple Engineers come up with alternative solutions just like they did back in the G4 MBP days.  Maybe it’s time for Apple to offer one version of the MBP that isn’t thinner, is deliberately bigger and packed with more cores and better heat dissipation hardware for those who do need a mobile video editing machine rather than something that’s just being used for Office applications.  Then again, as is often the case, maybe Apple just doesn’t care about the video editing folks who need solutions in the field because the numbers don’t suggest they’d make enough money?

I have to be honest in saying that I wish Jony Ive would be replaced by an Engineer that actually shoots video all the time, edits video all the time, and actually cares about that functionality rather than it looking “pretty” with chamfered edges.  The pendulum has swung so far toward “looks” that the “functionality” side seems to be ignored because it gets in the way of “pretty”.  Apparently, nothing was learned from the Mac Pro fiasco.

racerhomie3 said:

If you can’t use common sense with your electronics, you don’t deserve one .

Oh we can’t possibly hold people accountable for their idiot choices like sitting on their phone.  Americans can’t take responsibility for their choices, so they have to sue a corporation over it.  It’s this same cry baby mentality that has lead us to having insanely long warning labels and lawsuits over everything.  It’s ridiculous.