At the same time, a Google exec said publicly that there's a problem with battery run time on Android phones - it's very low. He blamed developers whose apps let processes run when the apps are in the background. In other words, a bad multitasking system. This is Android's "openness" - the openness to let developers make battery-sucking apps. And this is even before Android phones get Flash.
No idea what your post has to do with mine.
I never argued anything about "openness" or the battery performance. Just that Google showed off some new features in 2.2 that fall under the "why hasn't this been done already" category.
Some done so simply that you'd think you were looking at an Apple demo.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris_CA
Android sold very little the first year.
iPhone (June 2007) has been out 15 months longer than Android (T-Mobile G1 - Sept 2008).
1 company makes iPhone.
At least 16 current manufacturers for Android phones plus another half dozen (phone manufacturers) coming online. Plus tablets, E-Readers and netbooks, etc.
How does that detract from Android's success? That's the whole point of Google's philosophy behind Android. That anyone can use it on whatever device.
Having actually read the book myself, I find Google fits the Big Brother criteria better than Apple does.
My guess is that the only people at Google pushing this meme are folks who think '1984' refers to a Macintosh commercial and have never read the actual book.
Work with Apple. Learn what is going on and why. Take it back and duplicate it.
Apple was not very smart here. Google had no where else to go in their minds. Who selects the Board of Directories anyway? And of what use are patients?
I think you have your story backwards... Apple visited Xerox and got their GUI/mouse ideas there. But you have to understand, what Apple did with their GUI was completely different than the direction Xerox was going. They were going to use it as a pointing device for applications, not be integrated as the primary input method for the OS. Similar to how drafting/CAD pointer pucks were later used.
If anything... Apple is Apple and Google is Microsoft. Apple showed their prototypes to Bill Gates and several other Microsoft employees to show off what they had done, and you know what they did with that.
Anyway... Google being on the board is not so strange. The companies were not direct competitors at the time. He served there for years. Once it be came clear they would be competitors, he did the right thing and resigned.
Did he take any knowledge with him? Unlikely. He obviously didn't realize that Apple's iPhone would be so revolutionary or he would have resigned long ago and Google wouldn't be playing catch up like they have been.
Google has been dying to find a niche so they are no longer a one trick pony. Try to look at this objectively... they are not innovators here. They are taking advantage of all the other cell phone companies fear of Apple... the cell manufacturers are basically begging them to come save them , but few people realzie that most of the sales are simply filling the vacuum that Microsoft has left completely open by their own phone OS failures. It's not Apple they're battling yet.
I believe so. Apple's not in this to be the biggest player, they're in this to make a ton of profit and make devices they like to use. They're not going anywhere, and iPhones will continue to be iPhones and loved by many, but people who think iPhones will be the dominant smartphone OS are probably delusional.
Of course, iPhone will be far, far more profitable than Android is. Depends what your intentions are. Profit vs openness.
This sudden 'openness' of Google comes as a bit of a shock to me. It sounds like they've found a very neat fig leaf indeed. Or is it a smokescreen?
I wonder what drives Google.. altruism? Dollars? My gut feeling is that Apple is quite a bit more honest about their intentions than good ol' Google.
Is this a joke!?!? Apple created a phone how they felt it should be created.. alot of people really liked it and CHOSE to buy it.
In what way does this compare to a totalitarian dictatorship which makes its decisions for people. I'll admit it was similarily lame when apple used this tactic in the 80's, but at least then people really had no choice apart from do it their way or go with out.
Now people have hundreds of choices for cellphones and choose.. again CHOOSE iPhone because they prefer what it offers.
Honestly, I like the people at google and usually respect and connect with the things they say.. but this was just retarded.
This is a common tactic of corporations and government figures in the US.. by trying to scare people into doing what they want with the big communist boggieman!! (or socialist or totalitarian) They're just words. People's lack of education on these words is what does the damage. Basically what Google is trying to acomplish here is tell people "Essentially if you buy an iPhone, that means you love Kim Yong Il."
Fuck off Google.
It's a serious point but this has to be post of the thread!
I love how right after he says this, he walks past his open MacBook Pro.
Why is that surprising? Apple makes the best computers. And Google's never been ruthless like that. They work with everybody. Including their competitors. So why would they not use Macs? Heck, some of their online Android demos show functions (like the Wifi hotspot) work with a Mac. They even did a live demo of a Nexus One running as a hotspot providing a wifi connection to an iPad.
It's really the media and fanboys that play up the Apple-Google conflict. "OMG, can't believe he's using a Mac!" "oooooh the irony." Please.
It was a hilarious dig at the competition. Jobs does them during keynotes all the time. And they are funny then. I always thought his pictures of current smartphones when he launched the iPhone was most hilarious and a real solid dig at the Nokia crowd. It's just part of putting on a show and riling up the audience. Gundotra's comments were pretty funny on screen. But seems much more stark in print, of course.
It's too bad people play up the competition as a bad thing. It's a good thing for consumers. Both sides will work hard to get better products, which benefit all of us. And you'll also get choice. Don't like AT&T (or the iPhone exclusive carrier in your country)? Well now you can get decent phone on another network. It's not all or nothing. Imagine the iPhone having no market on the competition. People who don't like/want/use the iPhone exclusive carrier in their country would be forced into a terrible choice between their network and a really good phone. Conversely, I am willing to bet that competition from Android has probably advanced the iPhone's upgrade cycle by quite a bit. There are probably upgrades we'll see this year that Apple might have considered holding off for another year or two. I'd argue that it's the same for prices too. Because of competition, iPhone prices may come down faster. Who knows, maybe we'll see a BOGO deal on iPhones some day! Healthy competition benefits us all.
It really is Mac vs PC from the 80s all over again. That's not to say PC is better than Mac, but far more people will use PCs than Mac. Apple simply can't monopolize the entire market with their couple iPhone models.
While very similar and tend to agree, however, there might be some differences to consider.
In PC world then as is to day, its content creation and for a majority, microsoft office rules. Just no getting around that.
In smart phone/device world, there is not that 'must have' app. These devices won't or aren't content creators(yet). They are information reception devices. So, the most easy and secure may win out. Anything else... do on a PC/MAC. And the hardware/software integration experience does matter.
That said, Apple iphone OS has its work cut out for it. Android 2.2 packs a lot of features.
IMO - apple needs to improve file share and add print capability. Continue the performance and batt improvements. Some free 'cloud' and wireless sync(at least with host computer over wifi) ability would be good. And yes, keep it simple for the rest of us non-techies.
Google may sell more stuff in the end, but there will always be a strong market for the quality alternative Apple has consistently offered.
I think that you are right, and therefore, you have no reason to fear. All this talk of one company or product "killing" another is generally silly.
Was the reference precipitated by Apple once being at death's door? Or is it because Apple grew up during an era when other platforms (like the Trash80) literally did die?
I find it all a bit bizarre. Especially when the meme gets spouted by the CEO.
iPhone (June 2007) has been out 15 months longer than Android (T-Mobile G1 - Sept 2008).
1 company makes iPhone.
At least 16 current manufacturers for Android phones plus another half dozen (phone manufacturers) coming online. Plus tablets, E-Readers and netbooks, etc.
Are you comparing on US market or global? You know US market is a small yard comparing to global.
This is the same as saying that AT&T is second or first and T-Mobile is small. In the USA it is, but in the world At&T does not count and it does not approach to size and scale of T-Mobile that runs its own networks and also owns many small GSM operators known under different names. That's why I stick to T-Mobile as a foreigner living in the USA, but traveling a bit.
Yes, but it's still Google's Google Search. They aren't giving anyone the source code so they can go set up Stevie's Search, which produces exactly the same results as Google's. They are a company based on proprietary software, and all this talk of openness from them is, as it is with Adobe, just a smokescreen intended to befuddle week minds.
Ah. So now it is "based on". That is very different from your original comment.
... It's really the media and fanboys that play up the Apple-Google conflict. ...
Well, no, it's actually Google that is playing it up. Using the Big Lie and accusing the competition of the sins which it itself is the most guilty of. It's pure propaganda from Google, trying to shape the perceived truth to its own ends.
This is a common tactic of corporations and government figures in the US.. by trying to scare people into doing what they want with the big communist boggieman!! (or socialist or totalitarian) .
Political parties also engage in this boogeyman strategy. Note that two entities often use each other as PR boogeymen, while simultaneously cooperating behind the scenes to preserve and advance their power over smaller rivals(e.g. political "bipartisanship", international trade agreements, Jobs and Schmidt playing footsie at the coffee shop). The name calling in public is just part of the courtly dance they do.
iPhone (June 2007) has been out 15 months longer than Android (T-Mobile G1 - Sept 2008).
1 company makes iPhone.
At least 16 current manufacturers for Android phones plus another half dozen (phone manufacturers) coming online. Plus tablets, E-Readers and netbooks, etc.
It seems to me that the logical conclusion is that Apple's vertically integrated model is deficient, if market share is a priority.
Comments
At the same time, a Google exec said publicly that there's a problem with battery run time on Android phones - it's very low. He blamed developers whose apps let processes run when the apps are in the background. In other words, a bad multitasking system. This is Android's "openness" - the openness to let developers make battery-sucking apps. And this is even before Android phones get Flash.
No idea what your post has to do with mine.
I never argued anything about "openness" or the battery performance. Just that Google showed off some new features in 2.2 that fall under the "why hasn't this been done already" category.
Some done so simply that you'd think you were looking at an Apple demo.
Android sold very little the first year.
iPhone (June 2007) has been out 15 months longer than Android (T-Mobile G1 - Sept 2008).
1 company makes iPhone.
At least 16 current manufacturers for Android phones plus another half dozen (phone manufacturers) coming online. Plus tablets, E-Readers and netbooks, etc.
How does that detract from Android's success? That's the whole point of Google's philosophy behind Android. That anyone can use it on whatever device.
Having actually read the book myself, I find Google fits the Big Brother criteria better than Apple does.
My guess is that the only people at Google pushing this meme are folks who think '1984' refers to a Macintosh commercial and have never read the actual book.
And the end-user is what Apple is ALL about today. People want integration and ease of use...coupled with fantastic design. If they didn't, ...
If they didn't, then Windows PCs would dominate the PC market. Oops!
Work with Apple. Learn what is going on and why. Take it back and duplicate it.
Apple was not very smart here. Google had no where else to go in their minds. Who selects the Board of Directories anyway? And of what use are patients?
I think you have your story backwards... Apple visited Xerox and got their GUI/mouse ideas there. But you have to understand, what Apple did with their GUI was completely different than the direction Xerox was going. They were going to use it as a pointing device for applications, not be integrated as the primary input method for the OS. Similar to how drafting/CAD pointer pucks were later used.
If anything... Apple is Apple and Google is Microsoft. Apple showed their prototypes to Bill Gates and several other Microsoft employees to show off what they had done, and you know what they did with that.
Anyway... Google being on the board is not so strange. The companies were not direct competitors at the time. He served there for years. Once it be came clear they would be competitors, he did the right thing and resigned.
Did he take any knowledge with him? Unlikely. He obviously didn't realize that Apple's iPhone would be so revolutionary or he would have resigned long ago and Google wouldn't be playing catch up like they have been.
Google has been dying to find a niche so they are no longer a one trick pony. Try to look at this objectively... they are not innovators here. They are taking advantage of all the other cell phone companies fear of Apple... the cell manufacturers are basically begging them to come save them , but few people realzie that most of the sales are simply filling the vacuum that Microsoft has left completely open by their own phone OS failures. It's not Apple they're battling yet.
I believe so. Apple's not in this to be the biggest player, they're in this to make a ton of profit and make devices they like to use. They're not going anywhere, and iPhones will continue to be iPhones and loved by many, but people who think iPhones will be the dominant smartphone OS are probably delusional.
Of course, iPhone will be far, far more profitable than Android is. Depends what your intentions are. Profit vs openness.
This sudden 'openness' of Google comes as a bit of a shock to me. It sounds like they've found a very neat fig leaf indeed. Or is it a smokescreen?
I wonder what drives Google.. altruism? Dollars? My gut feeling is that Apple is quite a bit more honest about their intentions than good ol' Google.
"If you believe in openness, if you believe in choice, if you believe in innovation from everyone, then welcome to Android," Gundotra said.
He forgot to mention "if you believe in pornography"
Is this a joke!?!? Apple created a phone how they felt it should be created.. alot of people really liked it and CHOSE to buy it.
In what way does this compare to a totalitarian dictatorship which makes its decisions for people. I'll admit it was similarily lame when apple used this tactic in the 80's, but at least then people really had no choice apart from do it their way or go with out.
Now people have hundreds of choices for cellphones and choose.. again CHOOSE iPhone because they prefer what it offers.
Honestly, I like the people at google and usually respect and connect with the things they say.. but this was just retarded.
This is a common tactic of corporations and government figures in the US.. by trying to scare people into doing what they want with the big communist boggieman!! (or socialist or totalitarian) They're just words. People's lack of education on these words is what does the damage. Basically what Google is trying to acomplish here is tell people "Essentially if you buy an iPhone, that means you love Kim Yong Il."
Fuck off Google.
It's a serious point but this has to be post of the thread!
No idea, but it'll be a greater number.
Android is on 59 carriers. How many is iPhone on?
I checked this the other day. According to the Apple support pages, the iPhone is available through 155 carriers worldwide.
I'm surprised that only 59 carriers sell Android phones.
I love how right after he says this, he walks past his open MacBook Pro.
Why is that surprising? Apple makes the best computers. And Google's never been ruthless like that. They work with everybody. Including their competitors. So why would they not use Macs? Heck, some of their online Android demos show functions (like the Wifi hotspot) work with a Mac. They even did a live demo of a Nexus One running as a hotspot providing a wifi connection to an iPad.
It's really the media and fanboys that play up the Apple-Google conflict. "OMG, can't believe he's using a Mac!" "oooooh the irony." Please.
It was a hilarious dig at the competition. Jobs does them during keynotes all the time. And they are funny then. I always thought his pictures of current smartphones when he launched the iPhone was most hilarious and a real solid dig at the Nokia crowd. It's just part of putting on a show and riling up the audience. Gundotra's comments were pretty funny on screen. But seems much more stark in print, of course.
It's too bad people play up the competition as a bad thing. It's a good thing for consumers. Both sides will work hard to get better products, which benefit all of us. And you'll also get choice. Don't like AT&T (or the iPhone exclusive carrier in your country)? Well now you can get decent phone on another network. It's not all or nothing. Imagine the iPhone having no market on the competition. People who don't like/want/use the iPhone exclusive carrier in their country would be forced into a terrible choice between their network and a really good phone. Conversely, I am willing to bet that competition from Android has probably advanced the iPhone's upgrade cycle by quite a bit. There are probably upgrades we'll see this year that Apple might have considered holding off for another year or two. I'd argue that it's the same for prices too. Because of competition, iPhone prices may come down faster. Who knows, maybe we'll see a BOGO deal on iPhones some day! Healthy competition benefits us all.
Either compare all Android devices to all iPhone OS devices (including iPod Touch and iPad) or compare any one Android phone to the Apple iPhone.
But that information is not at all useful if one wishes to compare all Android OS phones with all iPhone OS phones.
Why restrict yourself to such subsets? They are useful for certain purposes, but useless for others.
Why don't they open up their AdSense and search algorithms? Of course the fuck not.
....
It really is Mac vs PC from the 80s all over again. That's not to say PC is better than Mac, but far more people will use PCs than Mac. Apple simply can't monopolize the entire market with their couple iPhone models.
While very similar and tend to agree, however, there might be some differences to consider.
In PC world then as is to day, its content creation and for a majority, microsoft office rules. Just no getting around that.
In smart phone/device world, there is not that 'must have' app. These devices won't or aren't content creators(yet). They are information reception devices. So, the most easy and secure may win out. Anything else... do on a PC/MAC. And the hardware/software integration experience does matter.
That said, Apple iphone OS has its work cut out for it. Android 2.2 packs a lot of features.
IMO - apple needs to improve file share and add print capability. Continue the performance and batt improvements. Some free 'cloud' and wireless sync(at least with host computer over wifi) ability would be good. And yes, keep it simple for the rest of us non-techies.
I fear you are right.
...
Google may sell more stuff in the end, but there will always be a strong market for the quality alternative Apple has consistently offered.
I think that you are right, and therefore, you have no reason to fear. All this talk of one company or product "killing" another is generally silly.
Was the reference precipitated by Apple once being at death's door? Or is it because Apple grew up during an era when other platforms (like the Trash80) literally did die?
I find it all a bit bizarre. Especially when the meme gets spouted by the CEO.
Android sold very little the first year.
iPhone (June 2007) has been out 15 months longer than Android (T-Mobile G1 - Sept 2008).
1 company makes iPhone.
At least 16 current manufacturers for Android phones plus another half dozen (phone manufacturers) coming online. Plus tablets, E-Readers and netbooks, etc.
Are you comparing on US market or global? You know US market is a small yard comparing to global.
This is the same as saying that AT&T is second or first and T-Mobile is small. In the USA it is, but in the world At&T does not count and it does not approach to size and scale of T-Mobile that runs its own networks and also owns many small GSM operators known under different names. That's why I stick to T-Mobile as a foreigner living in the USA, but traveling a bit.
Yes, but it's still Google's Google Search. They aren't giving anyone the source code so they can go set up Stevie's Search, which produces exactly the same results as Google's. They are a company based on proprietary software, and all this talk of openness from them is, as it is with Adobe, just a smokescreen intended to befuddle week minds.
Ah. So now it is "based on". That is very different from your original comment.
... It's really the media and fanboys that play up the Apple-Google conflict. ...
Well, no, it's actually Google that is playing it up. Using the Big Lie and accusing the competition of the sins which it itself is the most guilty of. It's pure propaganda from Google, trying to shape the perceived truth to its own ends.
This is a common tactic of corporations and government figures in the US.. by trying to scare people into doing what they want with the big communist boggieman!! (or socialist or totalitarian) .
Political parties also engage in this boogeyman strategy. Note that two entities often use each other as PR boogeymen, while simultaneously cooperating behind the scenes to preserve and advance their power over smaller rivals(e.g. political "bipartisanship", international trade agreements, Jobs and Schmidt playing footsie at the coffee shop). The name calling in public is just part of the courtly dance they do.
Ah. So now it is "based on". That is very different from your original comment.
No, not at all.
Android sold very little the first year.
iPhone (June 2007) has been out 15 months longer than Android (T-Mobile G1 - Sept 2008).
1 company makes iPhone.
At least 16 current manufacturers for Android phones plus another half dozen (phone manufacturers) coming online. Plus tablets, E-Readers and netbooks, etc.
It seems to me that the logical conclusion is that Apple's vertically integrated model is deficient, if market share is a priority.