It really irritates me when someone like Jobs or Ballmer acts like people don't know what else is on the market when they say there's nothing like their product.
Overall, this is a good evolution of the iphone. Still not as revolutionary as the first though.
It really irritates me when people don't understand business or marketing. What do you expect Jobs to say? "Hey, we have a new phone. It's pretty much like the old one but some things are better. The Sprint EVO 4G's camera has more megapixels. I guess there is no reason to buy this phone." Seriously!
What part of the announcement do you feel was hype.
In reviews Sprints 4G was only found to be marginally faster than AT&T's 3G but a significantly larger drain on the battery. I would call that being suckered by hype.
At this point, the 4g radio drains the battery in about 4 hours if there is no 4g service. Sprint even tells people to turn the 4g radio off if they are out of coverage. I think they shouldn't have to, but the technology isn't there yet to detect and automatically toggle. If you are within coverage, it doesn't drain the device any faster.
4G speeds also are very dependent on which city you're in. At ppcgeeks, a person posted 3.22mbps dl speed with 4 bars while I've seen other people getting above 8mbps.
Finally, the 4g radio isn't as much of a sell as you think. I mean it's nice and all, but I know it's not something I look at first and I know I'm not alone from what I see people saying about it.
On my last trip I took an iPod, cell phone, GPS and digital camera and finally realized, this is silly. So I was ready to replace all these devices with the new iPhone announced today.
Unfortunately, the maximum storage staying at 32GB throws a wrench in my plans. I held off buying an iPod touch for several release cycles until its storage finally went up to 64GB. Now I don't want to do the same thing with the iPhone. But I also don't want to carry both an iPhone and an iPod touch around with me. Plus, I figured I could get a good price for the iPod to help pay for the new phone!
But, in this argument about ppi and eye resolution, we have to remember that each pixel is comprised of Red, Green, and Blue spots. Those spots are much smaller than the entire grey pixel they comprise. This is not understood by some posters here. So if there is one red pixel in a field for black it will be smaller than one pixel of light grey (or white), in that field of black.
Good point. Apple didn't go the cheap route and use a cheaper PenTile Matrix display (they throw away something like 33% of the color info?).
The display does look impressive. Another thread on slashdot actually prompted me to look at the HTC Evo specs. They are actually quite good (on paper), although history has taught us that they tend to skimp on quality in various aspects (EVO still uses the same crappy PenTile display).
In any case, I don't have any interest in switching from my iPhone as I don't have any issues with AT&T, and the new iPhone 4 looks very enticing to me. I do wish they would expand on the Bluetooth profile support a bit (any word on that yet?). I'm also a bit surprised that they stuck to 2.4Ghz for the Wireless-N. Still an improvement in any case.
But, in this argument about ppi and eye resolution, we have to remember that each pixel is comprised of Red, Green, and Blue spots. Those spots are much smaller than the entire grey pixel they comprise. This is not understood by some posters here. So if there is one red pixel in a field for black it will be smaller than one pixel of light grey (or white), in that field of black.
True however two red pixels side by side will have a space between them where as two gray pixels will not (have as much). But I'm just splitting hairs. The new display is still probably the best out there.
What is a 6-axis sensor package (i.e., what are the 6 axis, and why is that different/better than a 3-axis, XYZ sensor package)?
I'm still on page 2 so someone else may have answered this, but the 6 axis bit refers to up, down, left, right, forward, back I believe. Sixaxis was also the name of the PS3 controller.
It really irritates me when people don't understand business or marketing. What do you expect Jobs to say? "Hey, we have a new phone. It's pretty much like the old one but some things are better. The Sprint EVO 4G's camera has more megapixels. I guess there is no reason to buy this phone." Seriously!
LOL! No I don't expect him to say all that, but don't talk to us like children. Calling the iPad magical really is a great example of what I'm talking about here.
OR, he could go in the opposite direction and make it even MORE absurd. "What God would use to call people" seems like a pretty good sales pitch
Happy to see they actually have engineers who understand how photography works, instead of the marketing department using making the choices.
The backlight system he describes is correct. More pixels is good but you also need more light as you add more pixels. Most phone manufacturers add more pixels which decreases the amount of light each pixel can gather. They use other tricks to make up the difference.
The OLED complaint about Apple ignores what they've done (and patented) with this display. It's gathering the surrounding light and amplifying it to enhance the display. You can't yet overpower the sun -- but at least those pixels in the sun, will be brighter BECAUSE of the light hitting the display.
And most consumers aren't going to be looking at processor speed -- IF they can edit HD video they just recorded -- then they are looking at it in terms of "what can I do."
The Android is a good phone and good competition -- but the geeks are all entranced by what they CAN DO -- if you've got X service pack, Y app with Z service and align the right direction. I don't have any of these google phones yet -- but the lack of a store and a "walled garden" and forcing providers to support the features, rather than turn them on and off at will is going to cause a bit of regret once average users get these phones.
I'm wondering how useable these phones will be after 2 years.
But the new hardware features on this phone are really going to create envy for 3GS owners -- it's a really solid upgrade, but that front-facing camera phone is going to mean videoconferencing at home and office.
So you agree with Jobs then when he says it's as revolutionary as the first? That's all opinion I guess. I'll say that comparatively it's definitely looking to be the best, ESPECIALLY at the price it's going for.
Now my dilemma: Pay $200 Sprint ETF, pick up this for 200 and pay extra each month, OR, get an Evo for 450 and pay less than at&t lol. (Also, I have to consider wireless tethering on Sprint, which is something I use constantly.)
I see this phone as being far ahead of whatever's out there now. Do I see it as revolutionary? Well, yes, in a way I do.
What we've been seeing is that when Apple implements a feature, it becomes an important feature to have. It becomes used. When other companies have introduced the same features, we haven't seen that. One reason is as Jobs has said, Apple sweats the details. They get it right. Android phones have a fair amount of poorly thought out features. The OS is still wonky and crude. It's not just my opinion, but the opinion of even the reviewers in many cases, even if they liked the phone. The same thing is true of the hardware. As I said, a crappy 5 MP camera, which is what these other phones mostly have, isn't impressive. If this camera proves to be as good as it looks to be, then it will make a major difference. The same thing is true of the 720p recording. I've seen that on a couple of other phones, and it's not very good. If Apple's 5 times zoom works in movie mode, it could be spectacular, if it works the way I think it might. We can look to the 5 MP sensor for that. You only need 921,600 pixels for 720p. We've got almost 6 times that. Zooming to 5x will still leave us with more than we need. It will remain sharp throughout the entire zoom range.
This phone can actually be a substitute for the $150 and cheaper digital cameras that people still buy in large numbers. That would be revolutionary. But, even now, iPhones are the biggest contributor to Facebook pictures.
It reminds me of the 8 hour recording time that VHS has in relation to the 5 hour record time of Beta. It sucked. It really wasn't useable. This is like a lot of the features of other phones. The features exist, but they aren't good. Apple's are good. Yes, I know that Beta died out. But Apple isn't Sony, and the iPhone isn't a Beta machine.
I'm willing to bet that Apple's video calling will be used, while that of others won't. That makes that feature, on the iPhone, revolutionary.
The OS is better too. Apple now has covered the features other phones were offering in more poorly functioning fashion. 7 hours for 3G talk. What other smartphone comes close to that? The highest rated Android models all have fairly poor battery life. 40 hours music. Who else has that?
It's the totality of the package that matters. If you want to pick out a feature out here and there from other phones, that's fine. But it tells you nothing about the whole experience. And in that, this phone is revolutionary, as have the older ones been.
I see people who don't like Apple on other sites going meh about this, but that's just because it's an Apple product. I pay no attention to it.
AT&T's plans now cost less than they did. The difference may not be all that much. Sprint and T-Mobile offer slightly cheaper plans because they aren't doing that well, and have no choice.
Apple developed- and perfected, I imagine, a new type of steel and glass for iPhone 4. This is revolutionary. No other phone maker I can think of goes to such extremes to not only make their products function as best as possible, but to be as aesthetically pleasing. What other phone is essentially scratch proof? The little things perfected are what make Apple and its products revolutionary.
I think if there hadn't been so many rumors about it, the person wouldn't have even said it. There's just so much talk about a cdma iphone for Verizon though.
Last i checked, thought can't be heard further than 6 inches away from its source
I am really excited about it -- if it was onsale today (instead of June 24), I would go get it now. rright now. Just ditch the meeting I have in 7 min and go.
but it isn't, so I'm gonna whine about my one complaint:
only 32G. I waited 2 years and only am getting 32G. The touch has had 64G for a year; I'd cheerfully pay an extra $50 for 64G.
(grumble, grumble)
>> I think they REALLY need a portable storage system that connects to the dock port or something. Here's the real kicker -- how many MINUTES of HD video are you really going to edit with a max of 32G? Maybe 15?
Storage space is as important to video editing as a good antenna and battery life are to a phone. So I'd even go with a thicker phone myself, if it went up to 128G. Everything else about these seems to be a great balance of performance vs. usability - but yes, the storage size is really a problem when you consider the new HD features and video editing.
Nope. I was hoping to replace three devices (phone, Palm TX and iPod) with one. Going to Android means I'll be able to reduce that to two, but the iPod won't get retired. I won't be able to go to an iPod + iPhone setup (even later) because there's only one checkbox per item in iTunes to manage what does and doesn't get synced.
LOL! No I don't expect him to say all that, but don't talk to us like children. Calling the iPad magical really is a great example of what I'm talking about here.
I know what Jobs means when he says it's a magical device, although i'd use a different word, i get the jist of what he's saying.
I picked one up for the first time last week and it really is special. 100's of other people queing up to try 20 iPads on display is something i haven't seen since the iPhone and even then not to this extent. There was clearly something magical or special or whatever you want to call it keeping these people on the iPad for so long. Truly amazing device. Lets not get complacent now.
I am really excited about it -- if it was onsale today (instead of June 24), I would go get it now. rright now. Just ditch the meeting I have in 7 min and go.
but it isn't, so I'm gonna whine about my one complaint:
only 32G. I waited 2 years and only am getting 32G. The touch has had 64G for a year; I'd cheerfully pay an extra $50 for 64G.
(grumble, grumble)
64 would not cost $50 more, so you wouldn't be doing that. That, and 64 GB will be available in a few months for people like you. MAYBE holding that back for a special launch of some kind?
Are you sure you are actually familiar with the biology of vision itself?
And, for that matter the psycology -- what people see, and how they perceive what they saw?
Please do enlighten us with your expertise. Your initial lecture does not suggest you do.
Equating precision with the size of a reinal cell? But then again, if it cannot display anything, how can it be the arbiter of precision, and more important, perception?
I heard, a team of scientists (one of them a professor at Harvard) won the Nobel prize for their seminal work on the biology of vision. You may want to brush up on their work and those who followed on their research. There is also a great body of work on the psychology of vision.
CGC
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bowser
I teach vision science in a major California, university, the claims about this display are patently false.
First, I'll overlook the claim about what the human retina can display, that's just wrong. The retina doesn't display anything, it's not a projector. Rather, it is an information gather device that has light projected on to it. It's nothing like a display at all. And, even if SJ meant display as in a projection screen, which is only partially correct, it doesn't change facts about the acuity of human visual perception.
The human retina is actually capable of picking up details finer than the width of a human photoreceptor itself. This is sometimes measured with what's called vernier acuity, the ability to detect if two lines are offset from one another.
Further, there are literally BILLIONS of receptors in the retina, with MILLIONS in a linear inch. There is no way a display of 326 ppi is higher resolution than the millions of receptors in a linear inch in the retina.
I'm very saddened to see this misrepresentation of the capabilities of the display in the new iPhone. It will only give the trolls food.
Well I bashed the iPhone 4 design when it was first leaked. Somehow Apple has a way of making it look so good... and have to admit the iPhone 4 is starting to woo me as well. There's an interesting quote from BusinessWeek: ?Just improving [the iPhone] every year enables competitors to catch up to it very quickly,? but I have to disagree. It has been 3 years since the first iPhone and Apple has been "just improving it" ever since. Only now, after 3 years do they have a few legitimate competitors. To the average person, the features of the iPhone 4 are more than sufficient - and also allow easy transfer of an iTunes library. But Apple's biggest competition is not Andoid right now, its their network, or lack thereof. Unfortunately, Apple did not announce a Verizon handset today, solidifying rumors that Apple is in deed tied to a 5 year contract with AT&T which is looking more and more like a ball and chain. As the masses migrate to smartphones, they will inevitably migrate to their networks of choice, increasingly not AT&T in larger cities. Otherwise, the new iPhone looks like a winner. It will sell just as well and better than it has. But if if if they could squeeze Verizon into its offering... boy they would explode in growth.
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It really irritates me when someone like Jobs or Ballmer acts like people don't know what else is on the market when they say there's nothing like their product.
Overall, this is a good evolution of the iphone. Still not as revolutionary as the first though.
It really irritates me when people don't understand business or marketing. What do you expect Jobs to say? "Hey, we have a new phone. It's pretty much like the old one but some things are better. The Sprint EVO 4G's camera has more megapixels. I guess there is no reason to buy this phone." Seriously!
What part of the announcement do you feel was hype.
In reviews Sprints 4G was only found to be marginally faster than AT&T's 3G but a significantly larger drain on the battery. I would call that being suckered by hype.
At this point, the 4g radio drains the battery in about 4 hours if there is no 4g service. Sprint even tells people to turn the 4g radio off if they are out of coverage. I think they shouldn't have to, but the technology isn't there yet to detect and automatically toggle. If you are within coverage, it doesn't drain the device any faster.
4G speeds also are very dependent on which city you're in. At ppcgeeks, a person posted 3.22mbps dl speed with 4 bars while I've seen other people getting above 8mbps.
Finally, the 4g radio isn't as much of a sell as you think. I mean it's nice and all, but I know it's not something I look at first and I know I'm not alone from what I see people saying about it.
64GB was never going to happen especially with what Apple will announce next.
Unfortunately, the maximum storage staying at 32GB throws a wrench in my plans. I held off buying an iPod touch for several release cycles until its storage finally went up to 64GB. Now I don't want to do the same thing with the iPhone. But I also don't want to carry both an iPhone and an iPod touch around with me. Plus, I figured I could get a good price for the iPod to help pay for the new phone!
Argh...
But, in this argument about ppi and eye resolution, we have to remember that each pixel is comprised of Red, Green, and Blue spots. Those spots are much smaller than the entire grey pixel they comprise. This is not understood by some posters here. So if there is one red pixel in a field for black it will be smaller than one pixel of light grey (or white), in that field of black.
Good point. Apple didn't go the cheap route and use a cheaper PenTile Matrix display (they throw away something like 33% of the color info?).
http://blog.javia.org/nexus-one-disp...pixel-pattern/
http://www.displaymate.com/Nexus_iPhone_ShootOut.htm
The display does look impressive. Another thread on slashdot actually prompted me to look at the HTC Evo specs. They are actually quite good (on paper), although history has taught us that they tend to skimp on quality in various aspects (EVO still uses the same crappy PenTile display).
http://phandroid.com/2010/03/23/htc-...hed-by-sprint/
In any case, I don't have any interest in switching from my iPhone as I don't have any issues with AT&T, and the new iPhone 4 looks very enticing to me. I do wish they would expand on the Bluetooth profile support a bit (any word on that yet?). I'm also a bit surprised that they stuck to 2.4Ghz for the Wireless-N. Still an improvement in any case.
But, in this argument about ppi and eye resolution, we have to remember that each pixel is comprised of Red, Green, and Blue spots. Those spots are much smaller than the entire grey pixel they comprise. This is not understood by some posters here. So if there is one red pixel in a field for black it will be smaller than one pixel of light grey (or white), in that field of black.
True however two red pixels side by side will have a space between them where as two gray pixels will not (have as much). But I'm just splitting hairs. The new display is still probably the best out there.
What is a 6-axis sensor package (i.e., what are the 6 axis, and why is that different/better than a 3-axis, XYZ sensor package)?
I'm still on page 2 so someone else may have answered this, but the 6 axis bit refers to up, down, left, right, forward, back I believe. Sixaxis was also the name of the PS3 controller.
Isn't Apple using their own internally-developed battery specs?
They are using LiPoly across the board, but they seem to have mastered their own management system to increase efficient and life.
It really irritates me when people don't understand business or marketing. What do you expect Jobs to say? "Hey, we have a new phone. It's pretty much like the old one but some things are better. The Sprint EVO 4G's camera has more megapixels. I guess there is no reason to buy this phone." Seriously!
LOL! No I don't expect him to say all that, but don't talk to us like children. Calling the iPad magical really is a great example of what I'm talking about here.
OR, he could go in the opposite direction and make it even MORE absurd. "What God would use to call people" seems like a pretty good sales pitch
Happy to see they actually have engineers who understand how photography works, instead of the marketing department using making the choices.
The backlight system he describes is correct. More pixels is good but you also need more light as you add more pixels. Most phone manufacturers add more pixels which decreases the amount of light each pixel can gather. They use other tricks to make up the difference.
The OLED complaint about Apple ignores what they've done (and patented) with this display. It's gathering the surrounding light and amplifying it to enhance the display. You can't yet overpower the sun -- but at least those pixels in the sun, will be brighter BECAUSE of the light hitting the display.
And most consumers aren't going to be looking at processor speed -- IF they can edit HD video they just recorded -- then they are looking at it in terms of "what can I do."
The Android is a good phone and good competition -- but the geeks are all entranced by what they CAN DO -- if you've got X service pack, Y app with Z service and align the right direction. I don't have any of these google phones yet -- but the lack of a store and a "walled garden" and forcing providers to support the features, rather than turn them on and off at will is going to cause a bit of regret once average users get these phones.
I'm wondering how useable these phones will be after 2 years.
But the new hardware features on this phone are really going to create envy for 3GS owners -- it's a really solid upgrade, but that front-facing camera phone is going to mean videoconferencing at home and office.
J
So you agree with Jobs then when he says it's as revolutionary as the first? That's all opinion I guess. I'll say that comparatively it's definitely looking to be the best, ESPECIALLY at the price it's going for.
Now my dilemma: Pay $200 Sprint ETF, pick up this for 200 and pay extra each month, OR, get an Evo for 450 and pay less than at&t lol. (Also, I have to consider wireless tethering on Sprint, which is something I use constantly.)
I see this phone as being far ahead of whatever's out there now. Do I see it as revolutionary? Well, yes, in a way I do.
What we've been seeing is that when Apple implements a feature, it becomes an important feature to have. It becomes used. When other companies have introduced the same features, we haven't seen that. One reason is as Jobs has said, Apple sweats the details. They get it right. Android phones have a fair amount of poorly thought out features. The OS is still wonky and crude. It's not just my opinion, but the opinion of even the reviewers in many cases, even if they liked the phone. The same thing is true of the hardware. As I said, a crappy 5 MP camera, which is what these other phones mostly have, isn't impressive. If this camera proves to be as good as it looks to be, then it will make a major difference. The same thing is true of the 720p recording. I've seen that on a couple of other phones, and it's not very good. If Apple's 5 times zoom works in movie mode, it could be spectacular, if it works the way I think it might. We can look to the 5 MP sensor for that. You only need 921,600 pixels for 720p. We've got almost 6 times that. Zooming to 5x will still leave us with more than we need. It will remain sharp throughout the entire zoom range.
This phone can actually be a substitute for the $150 and cheaper digital cameras that people still buy in large numbers. That would be revolutionary. But, even now, iPhones are the biggest contributor to Facebook pictures.
It reminds me of the 8 hour recording time that VHS has in relation to the 5 hour record time of Beta. It sucked. It really wasn't useable. This is like a lot of the features of other phones. The features exist, but they aren't good. Apple's are good. Yes, I know that Beta died out. But Apple isn't Sony, and the iPhone isn't a Beta machine.
I'm willing to bet that Apple's video calling will be used, while that of others won't. That makes that feature, on the iPhone, revolutionary.
The OS is better too. Apple now has covered the features other phones were offering in more poorly functioning fashion. 7 hours for 3G talk. What other smartphone comes close to that? The highest rated Android models all have fairly poor battery life. 40 hours music. Who else has that?
It's the totality of the package that matters. If you want to pick out a feature out here and there from other phones, that's fine. But it tells you nothing about the whole experience. And in that, this phone is revolutionary, as have the older ones been.
I see people who don't like Apple on other sites going meh about this, but that's just because it's an Apple product. I pay no attention to it.
AT&T's plans now cost less than they did. The difference may not be all that much. Sprint and T-Mobile offer slightly cheaper plans because they aren't doing that well, and have no choice.
Why? No free thought allowed?
I think if there hadn't been so many rumors about it, the person wouldn't have even said it. There's just so much talk about a cdma iphone for Verizon though.
Last i checked, thought can't be heard further than 6 inches away from its source
I am really excited about it -- if it was onsale today (instead of June 24), I would go get it now. rright now. Just ditch the meeting I have in 7 min and go.
but it isn't, so I'm gonna whine about my one complaint:
only 32G. I waited 2 years and only am getting 32G. The touch has had 64G for a year; I'd cheerfully pay an extra $50 for 64G.
(grumble, grumble)
>> I think they REALLY need a portable storage system that connects to the dock port or something. Here's the real kicker -- how many MINUTES of HD video are you really going to edit with a max of 32G? Maybe 15?
Storage space is as important to video editing as a good antenna and battery life are to a phone. So I'd even go with a thicker phone myself, if it went up to 128G. Everything else about these seems to be a great balance of performance vs. usability - but yes, the storage size is really a problem when you consider the new HD features and video editing.
Android has a 64GB phone?
Nope. I was hoping to replace three devices (phone, Palm TX and iPod) with one. Going to Android means I'll be able to reduce that to two, but the iPod won't get retired. I won't be able to go to an iPod + iPhone setup (even later) because there's only one checkbox per item in iTunes to manage what does and doesn't get synced.
LOL! No I don't expect him to say all that, but don't talk to us like children. Calling the iPad magical really is a great example of what I'm talking about here.
I know what Jobs means when he says it's a magical device, although i'd use a different word, i get the jist of what he's saying.
I picked one up for the first time last week and it really is special. 100's of other people queing up to try 20 iPads on display is something i haven't seen since the iPhone and even then not to this extent. There was clearly something magical or special or whatever you want to call it keeping these people on the iPad for so long. Truly amazing device. Lets not get complacent now.
I am really excited about it -- if it was onsale today (instead of June 24), I would go get it now. rright now. Just ditch the meeting I have in 7 min and go.
but it isn't, so I'm gonna whine about my one complaint:
only 32G. I waited 2 years and only am getting 32G. The touch has had 64G for a year; I'd cheerfully pay an extra $50 for 64G.
(grumble, grumble)
64 would not cost $50 more, so you wouldn't be doing that. That, and 64 GB will be available in a few months for people like you. MAYBE holding that back for a special launch of some kind?
And, for that matter the psycology -- what people see, and how they perceive what they saw?
Please do enlighten us with your expertise. Your initial lecture does not suggest you do.
Equating precision with the size of a reinal cell? But then again, if it cannot display anything, how can it be the arbiter of precision, and more important, perception?
I heard, a team of scientists (one of them a professor at Harvard) won the Nobel prize for their seminal work on the biology of vision. You may want to brush up on their work and those who followed on their research. There is also a great body of work on the psychology of vision.
CGC
I teach vision science in a major California, university, the claims about this display are patently false.
First, I'll overlook the claim about what the human retina can display, that's just wrong. The retina doesn't display anything, it's not a projector. Rather, it is an information gather device that has light projected on to it. It's nothing like a display at all. And, even if SJ meant display as in a projection screen, which is only partially correct, it doesn't change facts about the acuity of human visual perception.
The human retina is actually capable of picking up details finer than the width of a human photoreceptor itself. This is sometimes measured with what's called vernier acuity, the ability to detect if two lines are offset from one another.
Further, there are literally BILLIONS of receptors in the retina, with MILLIONS in a linear inch. There is no way a display of 326 ppi is higher resolution than the millions of receptors in a linear inch in the retina.
I'm very saddened to see this misrepresentation of the capabilities of the display in the new iPhone. It will only give the trolls food.