Apple unveils redesigned, thinner iPhone 4 with two cameras

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  • Reply 121 of 507
    boeyc15boeyc15 Posts: 986member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by arklab View Post


    OK, I get to be the seal that jumped in the shark tank.



    For me, nothing compelling. Even the wireless N is only on 2.4GHz.

    Shoot, how long has Apple been putting 5GHz in even their cheapest computers?

    Kinda like not putting USB 3.0 on the 17" iMac I got my wife a few months ago.

    Great PC, but hardly cutting edge features.



    This makes me very happy with the purchase of two 3GS iPhones this weekend (with unlimited data plans) as AT&T stores offer 30 day price guarantee - so only $99 each!



    The screen is actually bigger, too. I really don't need a cell phone screen I have to enlarge with a projector to tell the improvement.



    I don't need to video conference (which AT&T will never allow over their 3G anyway).

    Isn't that what the Macbooks are for?

    Not bad to have, but no big deal ether.



    And I wonder if the iMovie app won't work with the 3GS when upgraded to iOS 4?



    Any way, for me just not that much more.



    OK, now to rip me a new one!

    Thanks for reading





    Just to clarify, you mean for 3GS owners?

    Well, for 3GS owners I have to agree... but it is tempting



    They are improvements no doubt. And very nice.

    But are they compelling... hmm not for this 3GS owner... yet.



    Camera update is tempting. I really like my 3GS camera, just needs that little bit improvement. Hopefully much improved reception with the fancy antenna. Definately will get the iOS 4 though.



    Think about it... how much more hardware items can they cram into these things? Its going to get down to better(not more) hardware and better software.
  • Reply 122 of 507
    mstonemstone Posts: 11,510member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Felman View Post


    I work in photography where a print standard is 300dpi so we make sure no pixel is visible but it is possible to go a bit lower and still have adequate quality. Having 326ppi is just great and even assuming you have those 3 subpixels per pixel, 109ish sppi is still incredible!



    The 300 dpi standard for printing is a completely different issue. Modern print is made of of dots arranged in a pattern. A typical screen pattern is 150 lines per inch. Therefore if a photo is 300 dpi that means that there is twice as much color information as required. Theoretically if the picture was only 150 dpi but the pixels precisely aligned with the dot screen, it would look identical to the 300 dpi printed photo. In all likelihood the screen and the pixels won't align so the 300 dpi guarantees that there will be no resolution degradation due to interpolation when the image is screened to 150 lines.
  • Reply 123 of 507
    ewtheckmanewtheckman Posts: 309member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by calguy View Post


    Hard to believe but I don't have an iPhone yet since I am on Verizon -



    I think it's interesting that AT&T is offering upgrades to anyone whose contract expires in 2010 provided they agree to another 2 years. That kind of suggests that the September rumors of a Verizon iPhone may just be true, and AT&T is taking advantage of these last few months of exclusivity to lock in as many customers as possible.



    To me, I only needed two things to buy an iPhone this year: Verizon (and I was willing to wait until September for that) and 64 GB. Since one of the devices the iPhone would be expected to replace is my old iPod, it needs to have enough capacity to at least hold what my current iPod holds, which is roughly 40GB. (Since an iPhone does so much more, I have to figure on current usage + storage for new uses, making going backwards a non-starter.)



    ::: Sigh ::: I guess I won't be getting an iPhone for the next 2 years. Android, here I come.
  • Reply 124 of 507
    mfagomfago Posts: 24member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Bowser View Post


    Further, there are literally BILLIONS of receptors in the retina, with MILLIONS in a linear inch. There is no way a display of 326 ppi is higher resolution than the millions of receptors in a linear inch in the retina.



    What is the angular resolution of the human eye, and what linear distance does this angle correspond to at 12" away? I believe Steve was claiming that it is 300 dpi.
  • Reply 125 of 507
    anonymouseanonymouse Posts: 6,926member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mortenandersen View Post


    I think those who have asked for a bigger iPhone screen, certainly want a bigger screen for A PHONE, which is pocketable, and so forth, so the answer iPad surely must be a misunderstandig of what these people/users (and I) would prefer, namely an iPhone with a 4 og 4,3 inches screen. Not too big or heavy, still pocketable, and much more use userfriendly both for eyesight in general and for many applications too.



    If it were even the slightest bit larger than the current 3GS, I wouldn't be able to fit it in the same jeans pocket as my wallet, which would force me to either a) come up with an entirely new pocket strategy or wardrobe, or b) start carrying a man bag.
  • Reply 126 of 507
    felmanfelman Posts: 21member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Mooch View Post


    did they say anywhere what the 4 countries are that are getting it June 24?



    US



    France



    Germany



    UK



    Japan



    that makes a shit load of people already... add 20 more a month later and everything else before 2011 and that'll make the Apple piggy bank ring a few times...
  • Reply 127 of 507
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 13,377member
    This beast is very desirable but honestly an unlocked version would be just the nuts. So any word on it being locked to AT&T?



    By the way I know about the unofficial unlocks I'm just interested in a supported unlocked iPhone from Apple. Frankly the only reason is to support operation in countries outside the USA without going broke.



    As to AT&T and keeping this phone locked I have to wonder why they bother? I mean really it is not like we have an alternative network to operate on.



    Dave
  • Reply 128 of 507
    arklabarklab Posts: 37member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by boeyc15 View Post


    Just to clarify, you mean for 3GS owners?

    Well, for 3GS owners I have to agree... but it is tempting



    They are improvements no doubt. And very nice.

    But are they compelling... hmm not for this 3GS owner... yet.



    Camera update is tempting. I really like my 3GS camera, just needs that little bit improvement. Hopefully much improved reception with the fancy antenna. Definately will get the iOS 4 though.



    Think about it... how much more hardware items can they cram into these things? Its going to get down to better(not more) hardware and better software.



    My main point was that for me and many others like me, a $99 3GS 16G iPhone is a better deal.



    And that Apple is not (mostly) doing better hardware - just what is "good enough" to sell new stuff to the faithful.

    Nothing wrong or dishonest about it, but not much to create / convert many new faithful.

    It's always their call, after all.
  • Reply 129 of 507
    chronsterchronster Posts: 1,894member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post


    How many times is "revolution" supposed to happen?



    Jobs said it was as revolutionary as the first. I think that's a bit of a stretch is all.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by sflocal View Post


    Unlike the landfill-destined Android phones, this iPhone is a seriously polished hardware/software combo. It works, and Apple's borderline-clinical attention to detail is what will continue to keep the iPhone the platinum-standard for everyone else to reach.



    I'll take SJ's viewpoint of what the market is like anytime compared to your perception of it is.



    And as usual, the rest of the competition is watching all the webcasts while their copy-machines are warming up. Why do any real R&D when they can get it for free from Apple?



    Even with the iOS4 coming out, I'm willing to bet they already have an early prototype of iOS5 working deep in the caves of Apple Skunkwerks. They just bring shame to the competition.



    I'm sold. The moment it's available - and the waiting lines dissipate - I'm getting one! My trusty 2g iPhone will happily retire as a iPod Touch.



    I'm a consumer who's been watching this closely along with reading about and considering the Evo from Sprint. Jobs is a salesman who is trying to sell you something. Yes, our perceptions are a little different, but you go ahead and trust whoever you want.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by maccherry View Post


    But Apple can release just one phone a year that will out sell 10 phones by HTC in the same period.

    HTC can kiss my a**. By the end of the year HTC will have dropped another 40 phones onto the market while Iphone coast along kicking major tail.

    Apple is in a league all its own.

    Don't ever mention Apple and HTC in the same breath. LOL!



    Not only that, but HTC makes phones for different carriers. Like literally will rework the same phone 3 different ways for 3 different carriers if necessary. That doesn't stop the phones from evolving though.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ghostface147 View Post


    Free thought yes. Free speaking? Nope. He wants to speak, he can do it at his own show.



    I see your point, but again, he was only saying it because it's such a hot topic right now. If Jobs had him thrown out, that would have been an even bigger dick move lol.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by masternav View Post


    And if it's already been asked or commented down thread I'll edit this off again.



    Well the resolution of the screen is better than anything I can think of, but at some point on a phone it really doesn't matter all that much, and 480x800 has been around for a while. Front facing camera, 720 video recording, these are around as well. No doubt the iphone 4g has things that put it ahead of the crowd, but not by leaps and bounds as the salesmen would have us believe

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post


    It's just as irritating (IMO of course), to have folks like you try to knock the thing down by implying that there is "nothing new" though.



    It can be compared to other phones sure, but it mostly blows them away on every point. The screen is the highest resolution screen you can get on a mobile, period. The 720p video recording is better than you'd find on any other phone, etc. etc.



    If a product really is better than the rest (and we know it won't be that way forever), taking the opportunity to say "ours is the best," is the only honest way to frame things IMO.



    What do you expect Steve Jobs to say? Is he supposed to come out and go "Well, all phones have this stuff in them, ours is a bit better than the rest, but hey, make up your own mind." And then walk off?



    I never said there was nothing new. Just the things he mentions as revolutionary do exist, and aren't as far ahead as he makes it out to be. But like you say, what do we expect from him? He's trying to sell the device.



    I'm anxious to see how their 720p video recording compares to other devices. They said UP TO 30 fps. That doesn't mean it'll be 30 fps all the time.



    I also find it interesting that you mention the screen resolution when people have been mentioning other phones' higher resolution for a few years now only to be told that sort of thing doesn't matter.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    Except that Jobs is right. There isn't another phone out now that comes within a mile of this one. And there won't be for a while yet.



    It's true that other phones have (crappy) 5 MP cameras. Big deal. No one else has a working front facing camera using video chat yet that works well. The software has been withdrawn that supposedly works fairly well, and the only software that is out, hardly works at all. Neither as yet allows camera switching in the middle of the call.



    No other phone has 7 hours of 3G calling, or 10 hours of video, or 40 hours of music.



    None has a screen that's anywhere near as good.



    None has a gyro that will make gaming, and other programs much better and versatile. Nintendo already mentioned Apple as their biggest competitor, this will hurt them much more.



    I could mention others, but that's enough.



    So you agree with Jobs then when he says it's as revolutionary as the first? That's all opinion I guess. I'll say that comparatively it's definitely looking to be the best, ESPECIALLY at the price it's going for.



    Now my dilemma: Pay $200 Sprint ETF, pick up this for 200 and pay extra each month, OR, get an Evo for 450 and pay less than at&t lol. (Also, I have to consider wireless tethering on Sprint, which is something I use constantly.)
  • Reply 130 of 507
    felmanfelman Posts: 21member
    Quote:

    The 300 dpi standard for printing is a completely different issue. Modern print is made of of dots arranged in a pattern. A typical screen pattern is 150 lines per inch. Therefore if a photo is 300 dpi that means that there is twice as much color information as required. Theoretically if the picture was only 150 dpi but the pixels precisely aligned with the dot screen, it would look identical to the 300 dpi printed photo. In all likelihood the screen and the pixels won't align so the 300 dpi guarantees that there will be no resolution degradation due to interpolation when the image is screened to 150 lines.



    Oh well thanks for teaching me that! Didn't know all the details!



    You interested in a job opening in Vision Science for University students?...



    hehe
  • Reply 131 of 507
    dick applebaumdick applebaum Posts: 12,527member
    .



    I've found that surfing these AI threads is much more enjoyable since I installed Click2Chronster!



    .
  • Reply 132 of 507
    cmaboltcmabolt Posts: 3member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by EWTHeckman View Post


    I think it's interesting that AT&T is offering upgrades to anyone whose contract expires in 2010 provided they agree to another 2 years. That kind of suggests that the September rumors of a Verizon iPhone may just be true, and AT&T is taking advantage of these last few months of exclusivity to lock in as many customers as possible.



    To me, I only needed two things to buy an iPhone this year: Verizon (and I was willing to wait until September for that) and 64 GB. Since one of the devices the iPhone would be expected to replace is my old iPod, it needs to have enough capacity to at least hold what my current iPod holds, which is roughly 40GB. (Since an iPhone does so much more, I have to figure on current usage + storage for new uses, making going backwards a non-starter.)



    ::: Sigh ::: I guess I won't be getting an iPhone for the next 2 years. Android, here I come.



    My exact thoughts... I'm a mac lifer...but tired of waiting for apple to get their sh__t together and spread the joy! Android here I come. By the time my new contract is up, there will be a better iphone and a faster verizon network with all the bugs worked out of it anyway.

    Cheers
  • Reply 133 of 507
    tenobelltenobell Posts: 7,014member
    He did say that they kept the pixel size of the camera sensor the same and added a backlighting feature to help add more photons to the higher pixel density. These are the little things necessary with increased pixel density to actually take a better image.



    Other phone manufacturers increase megapixels by shrinking pixels.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    Except that Jobs is right. There isn't another phone out now that comes within a mile of this one. And there won't be for a while yet.



    It's true that other phones have (crappy) 5 MP cameras. Big deal.



  • Reply 134 of 507
    masternavmasternav Posts: 442member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Bowser View Post


    I teach vision science in a major California, university, the claims about this display are patently false.



    First, I'll overlook the claim about what the human retina can display, that's just wrong. The retina doesn't display anything, it's not a projector. Rather, it is an information gather device that has light projected on to it. It's nothing like a display at all. And, even if SJ meant display as in a projection screen, which is only partially correct, it doesn't change facts about the acuity of human visual perception.



    The human retina is actually capable of picking up details finer than the width of a human photoreceptor itself. This is sometimes measured with what's called vernier acuity, the ability to detect if two lines are offset from one another.



    Further, there are literally BILLIONS of receptors in the retina, with MILLIONS in a linear inch. There is no way a display of 326 ppi is higher resolution than the millions of receptors in a linear inch in the retina.



    I'm very saddened to see this misrepresentation of the capabilities of the display in the new iPhone. It will only give the trolls food.



    yeah - get the receptor thingy BUT how does the visual center process all that data? We are talking perceptivity here not receptivity, processing not physical capacity. Again, don't get distracted by the label - consider the function - unless you are in fact a hopeless pedant. Go back to what the actuall Apple website says about the display and actually watch what Steve Jobs says about it - not the translated, transformed, transliterated abomination that passes for the article here.
  • Reply 135 of 507
    hillstoneshillstones Posts: 1,490member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Hellacool View Post


    "When Jobs turned to Scott Forstall, senior vice president for iPhone software, for ideas, someone in the audience suggested they try the Verizon network."



    I would have paid to hear that



    Of course the fool in the audience that mocked him with that comment made himself look like an ass considering they were having problems with the Wi-Fi network. Their technical issue had nothing to do with any cellular network.
  • Reply 136 of 507
    rhyderhyde Posts: 294member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by EWTHeckman View Post


    I think it's interesting that AT&T is offering upgrades to anyone whose contract expires in 2010 provided they agree to another 2 years. That kind of suggests that the September rumors of a Verizon iPhone may just be true, and AT&T is taking advantage of these last few months of exclusivity to lock in as many customers as possible.



    To me, I only needed two things to buy an iPhone this year: Verizon (and I was willing to wait until September for that) and 64 GB. Since one of the devices the iPhone would be expected to replace is my old iPod, it needs to have enough capacity to at least hold what my current iPod holds, which is roughly 40GB. (Since an iPhone does so much more, I have to figure on current usage + storage for new uses, making going backwards a non-starter.)



    ::: Sigh ::: I guess I won't be getting an iPhone for the next 2 years. Android, here I come.



    Android has a 64GB phone?
  • Reply 137 of 507
    johnnyb0731johnnyb0731 Posts: 326member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by London View Post


    What is a 6-axis sensor package (i.e., what are the 6 axis, and why is that different/better than a 3-axis, XYZ sensor package)?



    The accelerometer gives you XYZ position knowledge. The Gyroscope gives you orientation knowledge (think pitch yaw and roll)
  • Reply 138 of 507
    chronsterchronster Posts: 1,894member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post


    .



    I've found that surfing these AI threads is much more enjoyable since I installed Click2Chronster!



    .



    Yeah, thanks, Dick.
  • Reply 139 of 507
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,586member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Bowser View Post


    I teach vision science in a major California, university, the claims about this display are patently false.



    First, I'll overlook the claim about what the human retina can display, that's just wrong. The retina doesn't display anything, it's not a projector. Rather, it is an information gather device that has light projected on to it. It's nothing like a display at all. And, even if SJ meant display as in a projection screen, which is only partially correct, it doesn't change facts about the acuity of human visual perception.



    The human retina is actually capable of picking up details finer than the width of a human photoreceptor itself. This is sometimes measured with what's called vernier acuity, the ability to detect if two lines are offset from one another.



    Further, there are literally BILLIONS of receptors in the retina, with MILLIONS in a linear inch. There is no way a display of 326 ppi is higher resolution than the millions of receptors in a linear inch in the retina.



    I'm very saddened to see this misrepresentation of the capabilities of the display in the new iPhone. It will only give the trolls food.



    You certainly didn't understand what Jobs was saying. nd what you are saying isn't entirely correct.



    I've been in the photo industry since 1969, and have degrees in biology, as I assume you do, and 300 dpi, ppi, spi, etc., are standards for good reasons. Our visual acuity is limited. Under VERY special circumstances we can see lines, and dots that are finer than we can normally see. But that's under circumstances that are unusual. Under conditions of extreme contrast, we can see details we otherwise can't see. Those conditions don't normally exist for us when reading newspapers, magazines, and books. You might remember that he mentions, specifically, printed matter as the standard there.



    The lower the contrast, the lower our ability to discriminate detail. This is pretty well known and understood.



    You are also making a major error in talking about the density of the retina. The retina is small. There's no point in saying that there are millions of rods and cones per inch. Do you know the size of the retina?



    In addition to that small retina size is the fact that the iPhone screen is vastly larger than that retina. Can you figure out how many retinas would be needed to cover the iPhone screen? The point is that the retina has just so many sensing cells, and the iPhone screen has just so many pixels. Talking about the number of cells per inch is a useless statement because that small "sensor" is looking at a much larger screen.



    In addition to that is the other fact that we aren't using more than a small part of out retina to image the iPhone screen, so we are just using a fraction of the cells in it. And, in addition to that, is the other fact that while the screen has the same sensitivity from edge to edge, our eye has very poor vision outside a fairly small area in the middle.



    The situation isn't as clear as you make it out to be.



    I can continue with this, but enough is enough.
  • Reply 140 of 507
    anonymouseanonymouse Posts: 6,926member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by chronster View Post


    Jobs said it was as revolutionary as the first. I think that's a bit of a stretch is all. ...



    I agree with this, but I think the rest of your comments are pretty much just a rationalization away of your disappointment that Apple produced something that is far ahead of everyone else.



    But, as I commented on a thread yesterday, the competition with Android just gets in the way of real innovation. Being locked in an arms race means you have to refine, refine, refine, and don't have the time to devote to doing something totally innovative and revolutionary -- i.e., reinventing again what the smartphone is. That being said, it's an incredible refinement.
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