"Touching" doesn't typically mean "deliberately poking with a finger tip", as one might do to test or demonstrate this problem. The only "touching" necessary is to have the bottom left corner of the phone gently resting against the palm of your hand, an entirely natural result of a very natural way of holding the phone in your left hand -- as depicted in many Apple promotional pictures for the phone.
I like the iPhone 4 enough that I'm still going to keep mine. I'm not one of the people screaming loudly about this issue since I can work around the problem and so much else about the phone is great. But the antenna issue really is a stupid engineering flaw, and telling people they're "holding it wrong" is a really lame excuse.
I'm not a fan of phone cases or rubber bumpers, especially ridiculously overpriced rubber bumpers, so I'll either make due either holding the phone in an awkward way or not worrying too much about 3G reception when I'm holding it more naturally.
Even if I was inclined to return the iPhone 4, I already sold my old 32GB 3GS on eBay, so unless I bought another used 3GS, all I could swap my iPhone 4 for would be an 8GB 3GS. I don't want buy used, settle for only 8GB, or switch to an entirely different brand of phone just to protest an admittedly annoying flaw. Even if I could get a new 32GB 3GS as an exchange, I'd hate giving up the improved screen and camera of the iPhone 4.
"Touching" doesn't typically mean "deliberately poking with a finger tip", as one might do to test or demonstrate this problem. The only "touching" necessary is to have the bottom left corner of the phone gently resting against the palm of your hand, an entirely natural result of a very natural way of holding the phone in your left hand -- as depicted in many Apple promotional pictures for the phone.
I like the iPhone 4 enough that I'm still going to keep mine. I'm not one of the people screaming loudly about this issue since I can work around the problem and so much else about the phone is great. But the antenna issue really is a stupid engineering flaw, and telling people they're "holding it wrong" is a really lame excuse.
I'm not a fan of phone cases or rubber bumpers, especially ridiculously overpriced rubber bumpers, so I'll either make due either holding the phone in an awkward way or not worrying too much about 3G reception when I'm holding it more naturally.
Even if I was inclined to return the iPhone 4, I already sold my old 32GB 3GS on eBay, so unless I bought another used 3GS, all I could swap my iPhone 4 for would be an 8GB 3GS. I don't want buy used, settle for only 8GB, or switch to an entirely different brand of phone just to protest an admittedly annoying flaw. Even if I could get a new 32GB 3GS as an exchange, I'd hate giving up the improved screen and camera of the iPhone 4.
It is definitely a problem holding it normally. Even when I held it out in front of me to use the screen, apps and internet, it lost all signal.
It is a great phone, but it definitely is not usable sans a case. That to me is a defective product. Apple's refusal to give away bumpers is even more gross IMO.
It is definitely a problem holding it normally. Even when I held it out in front of me to use the screen, apps and internet, it lost all signal.
It is a great phone, but it definitely is not usable sans a case. That to me is a defective product. Apple's refusal to give away bumpers is even more gross IMO.
I think most people agree that Apple should give away bumpers. I wonder what the other cover makers would feel about that? - would they sue? If Apple gave away a really cheap cover that just did the job, how would consumers feel about that? let alone what the legal situation would be.
I think Apple would be forced to give a $30 voucher/discount which is effectively a $30 loss on each phone.
I think most people agree that Apple should give away bumpers. I wonder what the other cover makers would feel about that? - would they sue? If Apple gave away a really cheap cover that just did the job, how would consumers feel about that? let alone what the legal situation would be.
I think Apple would be forced to give a $30 voucher/discount which is effectively a $30 loss on each phone.
Something needs to be done, but what?
Bumpers barely protect the phone. The fact that Apples only case ever for an iPhone covers only the part that causes the issue, is the most telling that they knew about the issue.
I use a full case for protection on my phone. I don't think the case makers would suffer too much. Not that they'd have any grounds to sue anyway.
Bumpers barely protect the phone. The fact that Apples only case ever for an iPhone covers only the part that causes the issue, is the most telling that they knew about the issue.
I use a full case for protection on my phone. I don't think the case makers would suffer too much. Not that they'd have any grounds to sue anyway.
If you're right, it's hard to see how Apple can come out of this with it's reputation intact. In fact I'd go as far as to say - it doesn't matter if they're innocent or not right now - they're reputation is going to take a beating.
Apple have always been single minded focusing only on their vision. But they've seemingly never screwed their customers before.
With Android devices set to take over world (in volume at least)Apple are really going to need a great reputation and an outstanding product to hold onto what will increasingly become a niche product. But then Audi cars are niche products too, as are Bang and Olufsen ;-)
The fact that Apples only case ever for an iPhone covers only the part that causes the issue, is the most telling that they knew about the issue.
1) And just look at how much the iPad case covers, that thing must be really poorly made.
2) You say that as if Apple is never scrutinized, that they could pull a fast on on all their users and scam an extra charge from them. They are evil, after all¡ What CE company is put more under a microscope or sued over as many silly things as Apple.
3) Or, you are saying Apple doesn?t realize they are scrutinized, despite all the evidence to the contrary. Could they really be that stupid?
4) The next step is saying they designed it that way to require Bumpers. But I guess they only designed some units that way, because not all are experiencing it. Today I was I had the worse 3G I?ve ever had, had to turn 3G off to get EDGE and GPRS just to get any data. Even with less than 5 bars I still couldn?t get it to freak out and go to No Service.
5) General rule of thumb: If you have a theory that screams conspiracy, it?s best to never speak aloud.
TWELVE plaintiffs??? That's all they've got? Ambulance-chasers, indeed!
I'd say, for that class-action status to be granted, they'd need (for example) 1% of purchasors (speculating: not really 'my' point of law) to join the action...which means they need to recruit at least another 14,988 of Mama's precious darlings before this gets to be more than a very public hissy-fit.
and those 12 plaintiffs better think of a good reason why they did not just return the phone.
1) And just look at how much the iPad case covers, that thing must be really poorly made.
2) You say that as if Apple is never scrutinized, that they could pull a fast on on all their users and scam an extra charge from them. They are evil, after all¡ What CE company is put more under a microscope or sued over as many silly things as Apple.
3) Or, you are saying Apple doesn?t realize they are scrutinized, despite all the evidence to the contrary. Could they really be that stupid?
4) The next step is saying they designed it that way to require Bumpers. But I guess they only designed some units that way, because not all are experiencing it. Today I was I had the worse 3G I?ve ever had, had to turn 3G off to get EDGE and GPRS just to get any data. Even with less than 5 bars I still couldn?t get it to freak out and go to No Service.
5) General rule of thumb: If you have a theory that screams conspiracy, it?s best to never speak aloud.
ZDNet are reporting that as impact protection, the bumper is a fail. They're including a video from iFixYouri showing 3 consecutive drops, the third resulting in a broken screen.
Looks like the media are not going to let up on the iP4 anytime soon.
1) And just look at how much the iPad case covers, that thing must be really poorly made.
2) You say that as if Apple is never scrutinized, that they could pull a fast on on all their users and scam an extra charge from them. They are evil, after all¡ What CE company is put more under a microscope or sued over as many silly things as Apple.
3) Or, you are saying Apple doesn?t realize they are scrutinized, despite all the evidence to the contrary. Could they really be that stupid?
4) The next step is saying they designed it that way to require Bumpers. But I guess they only designed some units that way, because not all are experiencing it. Today I was I had the worse 3G I?ve ever had, had to turn 3G off to get EDGE and GPRS just to get any data. Even with less than 5 bars I still couldn?t get it to freak out and go to No Service.
5) General rule of thumb: If you have a theory that screams conspiracy, it?s best to never speak aloud.
1) The iPad cover covers the full unit and is in fact protection. It does NOT just cover the edge. It also acts as a stand to prop up the iPad for viewing and use. The iPhone bumper does NONE of these.
2, 3) Apple may be scrutinized, but they are not infallible. IMO they did not find out about the problem in time as they always had it in a case during field testing. At that point when they finally found out, they could delay the release by months and redesign the phone, or they could make their first ever iPhone "case" and cover just the part that is the problem. What do you think would have happened to their stock if they had delayed the iPhone for months? NO way they'd go that route.
4) I know of no iPhone 4 that you can bridge the two antenna's and get no attenuation problem. The exception might be in very close proximity to a tower.
5) General rule of thumb: Juts because there's a conspiracy theory, does not mean there is not an issue in truth.
Finally some informed, intelligent discussion on this matter. Quite interesting.
So the antenna on the outside seems to give better reception, except touching it causes poorer reception. This combined with the vagaries of cellular network conditions, means... Well, for me anyway it means I don't need to upgrade yet, it's not available in my country anyways.
Apple's acknowledgement of their signal strength display algorithm stunningness stands to reason like nothing else on the earth (for those who can see what all that is about).
Still the conclusions of AnandTech are somewhat valid.
we live in Switzerland, altough the iPhone 4 is not officially available here, we drove quickly over to France and bought a couple of iPhone 4. We came back and tested them really hard... espescially we tested this reception issue and we have no issues here.
We use Swisscom in Switzerland, that's the largest Operator and there are no dropped calls, no signal loss, nothing ! We use to touch it around the antenna, we even touched it with our tongue ! nothing... it works, no issues here...
We think you have a problem with the operator, in Switzerland there is absolutely no signal issues and dropped calls, nothing! Think a bit out of the box and try it outside the US and you'll see it works absolutely perfect! So the device can't be the problem...
we live in Switzerland, altough the iPhone 4 is not officially available here, we drove quickly over to France and bought a couple of iPhone 4. We came back and tested them really hard... espescially we tested this reception issue and we have no issues here.
We use Swisscom in Switzerland, that's the largest Operator and there are no dropped calls, no signal loss, nothing ! We use to touch it around the antenna, we even touched it with our tongue ! nothing... it works, no issues here...
We think you have a problem with the operator, in Switzerland there is absolutely no signal issues and dropped calls, nothing! Think a bit out of the box and try it outside the US and you'll see it works absolutely perfect! So the device can't be the problem...
Greeting
G
Can you post any European/UK tech blog/ newspaper articles that review the phone's reception issues? Thanks
Comments
"Touching" doesn't typically mean "deliberately poking with a finger tip", as one might do to test or demonstrate this problem. The only "touching" necessary is to have the bottom left corner of the phone gently resting against the palm of your hand, an entirely natural result of a very natural way of holding the phone in your left hand -- as depicted in many Apple promotional pictures for the phone.
I like the iPhone 4 enough that I'm still going to keep mine. I'm not one of the people screaming loudly about this issue since I can work around the problem and so much else about the phone is great. But the antenna issue really is a stupid engineering flaw, and telling people they're "holding it wrong" is a really lame excuse.
I'm not a fan of phone cases or rubber bumpers, especially ridiculously overpriced rubber bumpers, so I'll either make due either holding the phone in an awkward way or not worrying too much about 3G reception when I'm holding it more naturally.
Even if I was inclined to return the iPhone 4, I already sold my old 32GB 3GS on eBay, so unless I bought another used 3GS, all I could swap my iPhone 4 for would be an 8GB 3GS. I don't want buy used, settle for only 8GB, or switch to an entirely different brand of phone just to protest an admittedly annoying flaw. Even if I could get a new 32GB 3GS as an exchange, I'd hate giving up the improved screen and camera of the iPhone 4.
very well said.
"Touching" doesn't typically mean "deliberately poking with a finger tip", as one might do to test or demonstrate this problem. The only "touching" necessary is to have the bottom left corner of the phone gently resting against the palm of your hand, an entirely natural result of a very natural way of holding the phone in your left hand -- as depicted in many Apple promotional pictures for the phone.
I like the iPhone 4 enough that I'm still going to keep mine. I'm not one of the people screaming loudly about this issue since I can work around the problem and so much else about the phone is great. But the antenna issue really is a stupid engineering flaw, and telling people they're "holding it wrong" is a really lame excuse.
I'm not a fan of phone cases or rubber bumpers, especially ridiculously overpriced rubber bumpers, so I'll either make due either holding the phone in an awkward way or not worrying too much about 3G reception when I'm holding it more naturally.
Even if I was inclined to return the iPhone 4, I already sold my old 32GB 3GS on eBay, so unless I bought another used 3GS, all I could swap my iPhone 4 for would be an 8GB 3GS. I don't want buy used, settle for only 8GB, or switch to an entirely different brand of phone just to protest an admittedly annoying flaw. Even if I could get a new 32GB 3GS as an exchange, I'd hate giving up the improved screen and camera of the iPhone 4.
It is definitely a problem holding it normally. Even when I held it out in front of me to use the screen, apps and internet, it lost all signal.
It is a great phone, but it definitely is not usable sans a case. That to me is a defective product. Apple's refusal to give away bumpers is even more gross IMO.
It is definitely a problem holding it normally. Even when I held it out in front of me to use the screen, apps and internet, it lost all signal.
It is a great phone, but it definitely is not usable sans a case. That to me is a defective product. Apple's refusal to give away bumpers is even more gross IMO.
I think most people agree that Apple should give away bumpers. I wonder what the other cover makers would feel about that? - would they sue? If Apple gave away a really cheap cover that just did the job, how would consumers feel about that? let alone what the legal situation would be.
I think Apple would be forced to give a $30 voucher/discount which is effectively a $30 loss on each phone.
Something needs to be done, but what?
I think most people agree that Apple should give away bumpers. I wonder what the other cover makers would feel about that? - would they sue? If Apple gave away a really cheap cover that just did the job, how would consumers feel about that? let alone what the legal situation would be.
I think Apple would be forced to give a $30 voucher/discount which is effectively a $30 loss on each phone.
Something needs to be done, but what?
Bumpers barely protect the phone. The fact that Apples only case ever for an iPhone covers only the part that causes the issue, is the most telling that they knew about the issue.
I use a full case for protection on my phone. I don't think the case makers would suffer too much. Not that they'd have any grounds to sue anyway.
Bumpers barely protect the phone. The fact that Apples only case ever for an iPhone covers only the part that causes the issue, is the most telling that they knew about the issue.
I use a full case for protection on my phone. I don't think the case makers would suffer too much. Not that they'd have any grounds to sue anyway.
If you're right, it's hard to see how Apple can come out of this with it's reputation intact. In fact I'd go as far as to say - it doesn't matter if they're innocent or not right now - they're reputation is going to take a beating.
Apple have always been single minded focusing only on their vision. But they've seemingly never screwed their customers before.
With Android devices set to take over world (in volume at least)Apple are really going to need a great reputation and an outstanding product to hold onto what will increasingly become a niche product. But then Audi cars are niche products too, as are Bang and Olufsen ;-)
The fact that Apples only case ever for an iPhone covers only the part that causes the issue, is the most telling that they knew about the issue.
1) And just look at how much the iPad case covers, that thing must be really poorly made.
2) You say that as if Apple is never scrutinized, that they could pull a fast on on all their users and scam an extra charge from them. They are evil, after all¡ What CE company is put more under a microscope or sued over as many silly things as Apple.
3) Or, you are saying Apple doesn?t realize they are scrutinized, despite all the evidence to the contrary. Could they really be that stupid?
4) The next step is saying they designed it that way to require Bumpers. But I guess they only designed some units that way, because not all are experiencing it. Today I was I had the worse 3G I?ve ever had, had to turn 3G off to get EDGE and GPRS just to get any data. Even with less than 5 bars I still couldn?t get it to freak out and go to No Service.
5) General rule of thumb: If you have a theory that screams conspiracy, it?s best to never speak aloud.
TWELVE plaintiffs??? That's all they've got? Ambulance-chasers, indeed!
I'd say, for that class-action status to be granted, they'd need (for example) 1% of purchasors (speculating: not really 'my' point of law) to join the action...which means they need to recruit at least another 14,988 of Mama's precious darlings before this gets to be more than a very public hissy-fit.
and those 12 plaintiffs better think of a good reason why they did not just return the phone.
1) And just look at how much the iPad case covers, that thing must be really poorly made.
2) You say that as if Apple is never scrutinized, that they could pull a fast on on all their users and scam an extra charge from them. They are evil, after all¡ What CE company is put more under a microscope or sued over as many silly things as Apple.
3) Or, you are saying Apple doesn?t realize they are scrutinized, despite all the evidence to the contrary. Could they really be that stupid?
4) The next step is saying they designed it that way to require Bumpers. But I guess they only designed some units that way, because not all are experiencing it. Today I was I had the worse 3G I?ve ever had, had to turn 3G off to get EDGE and GPRS just to get any data. Even with less than 5 bars I still couldn?t get it to freak out and go to No Service.
5) General rule of thumb: If you have a theory that screams conspiracy, it?s best to never speak aloud.
ZDNet are reporting that as impact protection, the bumper is a fail. They're including a video from iFixYouri showing 3 consecutive drops, the third resulting in a broken screen.
Looks like the media are not going to let up on the iP4 anytime soon.
1) And just look at how much the iPad case covers, that thing must be really poorly made.
2) You say that as if Apple is never scrutinized, that they could pull a fast on on all their users and scam an extra charge from them. They are evil, after all¡ What CE company is put more under a microscope or sued over as many silly things as Apple.
3) Or, you are saying Apple doesn?t realize they are scrutinized, despite all the evidence to the contrary. Could they really be that stupid?
4) The next step is saying they designed it that way to require Bumpers. But I guess they only designed some units that way, because not all are experiencing it. Today I was I had the worse 3G I?ve ever had, had to turn 3G off to get EDGE and GPRS just to get any data. Even with less than 5 bars I still couldn?t get it to freak out and go to No Service.
5) General rule of thumb: If you have a theory that screams conspiracy, it?s best to never speak aloud.
1) The iPad cover covers the full unit and is in fact protection. It does NOT just cover the edge. It also acts as a stand to prop up the iPad for viewing and use. The iPhone bumper does NONE of these.
2, 3) Apple may be scrutinized, but they are not infallible. IMO they did not find out about the problem in time as they always had it in a case during field testing. At that point when they finally found out, they could delay the release by months and redesign the phone, or they could make their first ever iPhone "case" and cover just the part that is the problem. What do you think would have happened to their stock if they had delayed the iPhone for months? NO way they'd go that route.
4) I know of no iPhone 4 that you can bridge the two antenna's and get no attenuation problem. The exception might be in very close proximity to a tower.
5) General rule of thumb: Juts because there's a conspiracy theory, does not mean there is not an issue in truth.
Reporters' Roundtable: What's the iPhone 4's problem?
http://www.cnet.com/8301-30976_1-200...eadlinesArea.0
It's worth listening carefully to what AnandTech say in this podcast
Reporters' Roundtable: What's the iPhone 4's problem?
http://www.cnet.com/8301-30976_1-200...eadlinesArea.0
Finally some informed, intelligent discussion on this matter. Quite interesting.
So the antenna on the outside seems to give better reception, except touching it causes poorer reception. This combined with the vagaries of cellular network conditions, means... Well, for me anyway it means I don't need to upgrade yet, it's not available in my country anyways.
Back to my iPad
Apple's acknowledgement of their signal strength display algorithm stunningness stands to reason like nothing else on the earth (for those who can see what all that is about).
Still the conclusions of AnandTech are somewhat valid.
Guys at AnandTech worked from wrong data...
Not sure if you're making a joke here, in reference to Steve's email about "you're working from the wrong data"...
But the guys at AnandTech used an actual dB readout.
Not sure if you're making a joke here, in reference to Steve's email about "you're working from the wrong data"...
But the guys at AnandTech used an actual dB readout.
Actual dBm readout by iPhone.
Actual dBm readout by iPhone.
OK, I see what you're saying...
OK, I see what you're saying...
Glad to know. The display algorithm is indeed breathtaking.
we live in Switzerland, altough the iPhone 4 is not officially available here, we drove quickly over to France and bought a couple of iPhone 4. We came back and tested them really hard... espescially we tested this reception issue and we have no issues here.
We use Swisscom in Switzerland, that's the largest Operator and there are no dropped calls, no signal loss, nothing ! We use to touch it around the antenna, we even touched it with our tongue ! nothing... it works, no issues here...
We think you have a problem with the operator, in Switzerland there is absolutely no signal issues and dropped calls, nothing! Think a bit out of the box and try it outside the US and you'll see it works absolutely perfect! So the device can't be the problem...
Greeting
G
Hi
we live in Switzerland, altough the iPhone 4 is not officially available here, we drove quickly over to France and bought a couple of iPhone 4. We came back and tested them really hard... espescially we tested this reception issue and we have no issues here.
We use Swisscom in Switzerland, that's the largest Operator and there are no dropped calls, no signal loss, nothing ! We use to touch it around the antenna, we even touched it with our tongue ! nothing... it works, no issues here...
We think you have a problem with the operator, in Switzerland there is absolutely no signal issues and dropped calls, nothing! Think a bit out of the box and try it outside the US and you'll see it works absolutely perfect! So the device can't be the problem...
Greeting
G
Can you post any European/UK tech blog/ newspaper articles that review the phone's reception issues? Thanks