Any phone means any non-defective phone, you know that. There is a separate policy for non-defective and defective phones.
The return policy is clear about that if you bothered to spend the 5 minutes to read through it.
We're not talking about a return policy because you just don't want it, we're talking about a defective unit. This is your entire argument and now you're changing it. Apple will refund you ALL your money, if you desire, if the unit is defective. The fact they aren't doing this should tell you something.
To restate:
Quote:
This is well documented stuff. The great thing about living in this day and age is customer protection policies. I recall one of Stephen Hawking's books having an anecdote about a train set he bought as a kid. it went into what a poor product it was and how there was little to no recourse at the time if it was defective. I forget his point, but I recall comparison present day.
If a hardware defect arises and a valid claim is received within the Warranty Period, at its option and to the extent permitted by law, Apple will either (1) repair the hardware defect at no charge, using new parts or refurbished parts that are equivalent to new in performance and reliability, (2) exchange the product with a product that is new or refurbished that is equivalent to new in performance and reliability and is at least functionally equivalent to the original product, or (3) refund the purchase price of the product.
I've been lurking, for a couple of days, on several of these threads, and I am overwhelmed by the amount of information.
This is my first post so be gentle!
We are in the USA and have an att plan
The little lady and I have ordered replacements for her 3G and my 3GS.
We are both happy with the phones and plan to sell them on ebay.
Our orders are both scheduled to ship tomorrow!
We are concerned that the new phones won't be as satifying as what we currently have,
We can cancel anytime before shipment.
We are seeking advice, pro and con on what to do.
What would you do in a similar situation?
I have an iPhone 4 and have not experienced the issue-- in fact, on Monday, I was on an hour-long call to a friend in Boston. She has a 3GS. The call kept dropping at her end, but never at my end-- it always refreshed?? As she would fade in and out, she would say: "well. that's AT&T". After, the call, she emailed me that she'd lost the ability to call out on her 3GS. I've never experienced anything like that on any iPhone (I've owned and used all of them).
As others have said, the iP4 is an amazing device: fast; reliable; beautiful to see and hold-- and the picture and video capability is amazing.
However, if you are unsure, you could cancel your orders, and wait until this issue is resolved:
If you are comfortable with eBay, you could resell them there, likely, at a tidy profit:
We're not talking about a return policy because you just don't want it, we're talking about a defective unit. This is your entire argument and now you're changing it. Apple will refund you ALL your money, if you desire, if the unit is defective. The fact they aren't doing this should tell you something.
Again, it's pure speculation on your part (as well as on the part of the those who are arguing against you) as to whether this problem constitutes 'defective' or not.
I don't see you guys doing anything other than a continued silly back-and-forth, splitting hairs forever on this issue, unless someone actually tries.
Again, it's pure speculation on your part (as well as on the part of the those who are arguing against you) as to whether this problem constitutes 'defective' or not.
I don't see you guys doing anything other than a continued silly back-and-forth, splitting hairs forever on this issue, unless someone actually tries.
Move along.....
That isn't my argument at all. I am sure there are defective units because I've seen them fist hand, and they were replaced, but even if I hadn't I can be certain there are because there are 3M a month being made and the chances of ZERO units being shipped without production defect is improbably to the nth degree.
My argument is that if there is a defect Apple will replace or refund it. Since they aren't doing so for the reception issue they think it's not a HW defect or haven't come to a conclusion at this time.
That does not mean that you cannot get a full refund for a device that is not behaving properly, even if the resolution is in a future SW update.
Again, it's pure speculation on your part (as well as on the part of the those who are arguing against you) as to whether this problem constitutes 'defective' or not.
I don't see you guys doing anything other than a continued silly back-and-forth, splitting hairs forever on this issue, unless someone actually tries.
Move along.....
Well, as I've stated, I don't think the bars dropping slightly when touching the antenna constitutes a defect, and the reviews and tests that deal with this would seem to bear that out: call quality still good, better than 3GS, etc.
The seam issue is a problem. So, find someone with an iP4 who doesn't have the seam problem, bring them along, demonstrate that one phone has the problem and one does not, and I don't see how they could maintain that the phone with the problem is not defective since it clearly exhibits a behavior that impacts use not shown by the other.
We're not talking about a return policy because you just don't want it, we're talking about a defective unit. This is your entire argument and now you're changing it. Apple will refund you ALL your money, if you desire, if the unit is defective. The fact they aren't doing this should tell you something.
Apple says that the customers complaining of antenna problems are using non-defective phones.
Thus, they are forced to pay the 10% restocking fee.
How do you know only a small percentage is affected ?
For starters, the phones are still selling. Next, if a large percentage were affected, you'd see massive returns. I've been in Best Buy, Apple Store, and Wal-Mart and have heard of no returns to speak of. Unlike most, I actually talk to the employees of these stores, especially when they see I have the new iPhone and a "what do you think of the reception issue?" conversation ensues.
Granted, I live in the St Louis area, which can be considered a major metropolitan area, where the signal strength should be top rate. Well, the signal is top rate; Downtown. In any other area, it's spotty at best, yet I've not dropped a single call more than my 2g iPhone, which leads me to believe there are dead spots.
Don't get me wrong, those having the problem are entitled to a working phone.
One thing NO ONE has mentioned is, is it entirely possible there is simply a bad batch of phones? We'd all be kidding ourselves if we thought each and every iPhone, hell any device, is 100%, 100% of the time.
I say give Apple a chance to at least look into the problem!
I remember reading somewhere quite recently, that 3GS phones were experiencing a similar problem when upgraded to iOS4, though I'm not sure if it's a hand position problem or not.
... Just go to the Phone app Keypad, type in *3001#12345# then hit Call (this app is not on the iPhone 4). This will bring up a diagnostic app for the phone. You can ignore everything but the Db rating that has now replaced your AT&T bars.
...Mmmm... I didn't know about this! Apparently the app won't work on a 3G or 3GS that has been upgraded to iOS4
I don't accept emails as official corporate communications. Steve Jobs is not a company. He has in no way made any official statement that directs any employee not to allow defective returns on an iPhone.
I don't accept emails as official corporate communications. Steve Jobs is not a company. He has in no way made any official statement that directs any employee not to allow defective returns on an iPhone.
Official Apple policy on the reception problem mirrors Steve Jobs' email
...Mmmm... I didn't know about this! Apparently the app won't work on a 3G or 3GS that has been upgraded to iOS4
.
I put my 3GS into field test mode, then upgraded it to iOS 4 and still have this. As a matter of fact, I've been looking for ways to get rid of it. Every time I open an app or click the Home button, it toggles between the numbers and the bars.
I've heard this over and over so apparently I'm the only iOS 4 user that still has this.
...Mmmm... I didn't know about this! Apparently the app won't work on a 3G or 3GS that has been upgraded to iOS4
OK, I thought it was still in iOS 4.0, but not on the iPhone 4, for some reason.
Quote:
Originally Posted by diddy
I don't accept emails as official corporate communications. Steve Jobs is not a company. He has in no way made any official statement that directs any employee not to allow defective returns on an iPhone.
This is why I hate his emails. Besides easily being faked there are too many potential opportunities for this type of one-on-one correspondence to come back and bite Apple in the arse. Unfortunately, my prediction has come true with his iPhone 4 antenna reply.
This is why I hate his emails. Besides easily being faked there are too many potential opportunities for this type of one-on-one correspondence to come back and bite Apple in the arse.
This is beyond insane. Why is everyone in denial mode? With the exception of a few objective voices here, half of the posters are saying there are no problems and it is all about Apple-haters causing a stink. Meanwhile, the other half are screaming that all phones are defective and Apple should be sent to jail!
From reading as much information on this issue as I can stomach, it is 100% clear that some people are having legitimate issues, and some are not having issues at all. Please realize that both of these things are true. Not "could be true" but they are both true right now.
Just because person A is exepriencing these problems, doesn't mean that all phones are affected. AND, just because person B is perfectly happy and having no problems, doesn't mean that no one else can be having problems.
Stop acting like 6th graders. Grow up, show some maturity, and be patient while Apple investigates. It will all get sorted out eventually. I know Apple hasn't sent you a sweet greeting card apologizing and telling you they are looking into it. But rest assured that they are. Too much money is at stake for them not to get to the bottom of it. If for no other reason than to cover their ass.
Comments
Any phone means any non-defective phone, you know that. There is a separate policy for non-defective and defective phones.
The return policy is clear about that if you bothered to spend the 5 minutes to read through it.
We're not talking about a return policy because you just don't want it, we're talking about a defective unit. This is your entire argument and now you're changing it. Apple will refund you ALL your money, if you desire, if the unit is defective. The fact they aren't doing this should tell you something.
To restate:
This is well documented stuff. The great thing about living in this day and age is customer protection policies. I recall one of Stephen Hawking's books having an anecdote about a train set he bought as a kid. it went into what a poor product it was and how there was little to no recourse at the time if it was defective. I forget his point, but I recall comparison present day.
FT!
It's really this simple:
- If the phone is defective, Apple will refund 100% of your money.
- If the phone is not defective, Apple keeps 10% -- but since they only do that on non-defective phones, that's reasonable.
I don't doubt that. But who defines 'defective?' (I would have to imagine that it would have to be Apple or its reps).
I guess we'll know what really happens only if/when someone actually attempted to return it for the signal drop problem.
Until then, it is speculation, and not worthy of further discussion (imho).
I've been lurking, for a couple of days, on several of these threads, and I am overwhelmed by the amount of information.
This is my first post so be gentle!
We are in the USA and have an att plan
The little lady and I have ordered replacements for her 3G and my 3GS.
We are both happy with the phones and plan to sell them on ebay.
Our orders are both scheduled to ship tomorrow!
We are concerned that the new phones won't be as satifying as what we currently have,
We can cancel anytime before shipment.
We are seeking advice, pro and con on what to do.
What would you do in a similar situation?
I have an iPhone 4 and have not experienced the issue-- in fact, on Monday, I was on an hour-long call to a friend in Boston. She has a 3GS. The call kept dropping at her end, but never at my end-- it always refreshed?? As she would fade in and out, she would say: "well. that's AT&T". After, the call, she emailed me that she'd lost the ability to call out on her 3GS. I've never experienced anything like that on any iPhone (I've owned and used all of them).
As others have said, the iP4 is an amazing device: fast; reliable; beautiful to see and hold-- and the picture and video capability is amazing.
However, if you are unsure, you could cancel your orders, and wait until this issue is resolved:
If you are comfortable with eBay, you could resell them there, likely, at a tidy profit:
http://shop.ebay.com/i.html?_nkw=iph...286.m270.l1311
A $299 ($329 with tax) iP4 should bring in $800-$1,000.
But, then, you gotta' risk the temptation of Pandora's box!
.
We're not talking about a return policy because you just don't want it, we're talking about a defective unit. This is your entire argument and now you're changing it. Apple will refund you ALL your money, if you desire, if the unit is defective. The fact they aren't doing this should tell you something.
Again, it's pure speculation on your part (as well as on the part of the those who are arguing against you) as to whether this problem constitutes 'defective' or not.
I don't see you guys doing anything other than a continued silly back-and-forth, splitting hairs forever on this issue, unless someone actually tries.
Move along.....
How do you know only a small percentage is affected ?
How do YOU know that a large percentage is affected?
Again, it's pure speculation on your part (as well as on the part of the those who are arguing against you) as to whether this problem constitutes 'defective' or not.
I don't see you guys doing anything other than a continued silly back-and-forth, splitting hairs forever on this issue, unless someone actually tries.
Move along.....
That isn't my argument at all. I am sure there are defective units because I've seen them fist hand, and they were replaced, but even if I hadn't I can be certain there are because there are 3M a month being made and the chances of ZERO units being shipped without production defect is improbably to the nth degree.
My argument is that if there is a defect Apple will replace or refund it. Since they aren't doing so for the reception issue they think it's not a HW defect or haven't come to a conclusion at this time.
That does not mean that you cannot get a full refund for a device that is not behaving properly, even if the resolution is in a future SW update.
Again, it's pure speculation on your part (as well as on the part of the those who are arguing against you) as to whether this problem constitutes 'defective' or not.
I don't see you guys doing anything other than a continued silly back-and-forth, splitting hairs forever on this issue, unless someone actually tries.
Move along.....
Well, as I've stated, I don't think the bars dropping slightly when touching the antenna constitutes a defect, and the reviews and tests that deal with this would seem to bear that out: call quality still good, better than 3GS, etc.
The seam issue is a problem. So, find someone with an iP4 who doesn't have the seam problem, bring them along, demonstrate that one phone has the problem and one does not, and I don't see how they could maintain that the phone with the problem is not defective since it clearly exhibits a behavior that impacts use not shown by the other.
But Apple claims these are non-defective phones. They claim this is normal operation for a cell phone. So to them, it's not defective.
Exactly.
We're not talking about a return policy because you just don't want it, we're talking about a defective unit. This is your entire argument and now you're changing it. Apple will refund you ALL your money, if you desire, if the unit is defective. The fact they aren't doing this should tell you something.
Apple says that the customers complaining of antenna problems are using non-defective phones.
Thus, they are forced to pay the 10% restocking fee.
How do you know only a small percentage is affected ?
For starters, the phones are still selling. Next, if a large percentage were affected, you'd see massive returns. I've been in Best Buy, Apple Store, and Wal-Mart and have heard of no returns to speak of. Unlike most, I actually talk to the employees of these stores, especially when they see I have the new iPhone and a "what do you think of the reception issue?" conversation ensues.
Granted, I live in the St Louis area, which can be considered a major metropolitan area, where the signal strength should be top rate. Well, the signal is top rate; Downtown. In any other area, it's spotty at best, yet I've not dropped a single call more than my 2g iPhone, which leads me to believe there are dead spots.
Don't get me wrong, those having the problem are entitled to a working phone.
One thing NO ONE has mentioned is, is it entirely possible there is simply a bad batch of phones? We'd all be kidding ourselves if we thought each and every iPhone, hell any device, is 100%, 100% of the time.
I say give Apple a chance to at least look into the problem!
I remember reading somewhere quite recently, that 3GS phones were experiencing a similar problem when upgraded to iOS4, though I'm not sure if it's a hand position problem or not.
no company can just deny something is a defect.
Steve Jobs did.
... Just go to the Phone app Keypad, type in *3001#12345# then hit Call (this app is not on the iPhone 4). This will bring up a diagnostic app for the phone. You can ignore everything but the Db rating that has now replaced your AT&T bars.
...Mmmm... I didn't know about this! Apparently the app won't work on a 3G or 3GS that has been upgraded to iOS4
.
Steve Jobs did.
I don't accept emails as official corporate communications. Steve Jobs is not a company. He has in no way made any official statement that directs any employee not to allow defective returns on an iPhone.
How do YOU know that a large percentage is affected?
I don't know if a large percentage is affected. But it appears this issue is affecting people more then normal.
I don't accept emails as official corporate communications. Steve Jobs is not a company. He has in no way made any official statement that directs any employee not to allow defective returns on an iPhone.
Official Apple policy on the reception problem mirrors Steve Jobs' email
...Mmmm... I didn't know about this! Apparently the app won't work on a 3G or 3GS that has been upgraded to iOS4
.
I put my 3GS into field test mode, then upgraded it to iOS 4 and still have this. As a matter of fact, I've been looking for ways to get rid of it. Every time I open an app or click the Home button, it toggles between the numbers and the bars.
I've heard this over and over so apparently I'm the only iOS 4 user that still has this.
...Mmmm... I didn't know about this! Apparently the app won't work on a 3G or 3GS that has been upgraded to iOS4
OK, I thought it was still in iOS 4.0, but not on the iPhone 4, for some reason.
I don't accept emails as official corporate communications. Steve Jobs is not a company. He has in no way made any official statement that directs any employee not to allow defective returns on an iPhone.
This is why I hate his emails. Besides easily being faked there are too many potential opportunities for this type of one-on-one correspondence to come back and bite Apple in the arse. Unfortunately, my prediction has come true with his iPhone 4 antenna reply.
OK, I thought it was still in iOS 4.0, but not on the iPhone 4, for some reason.
It's still there.....on my 3GS, running iOS 4.0.
This is why I hate his emails. Besides easily being faked there are too many potential opportunities for this type of one-on-one correspondence to come back and bite Apple in the arse.
Precisely:
http://forums.appleinsider.com/showp...5&postcount=75
I expect we'll see Steve's email habits reigned in shortly by senior counsel.
From reading as much information on this issue as I can stomach, it is 100% clear that some people are having legitimate issues, and some are not having issues at all. Please realize that both of these things are true. Not "could be true" but they are both true right now.
Just because person A is exepriencing these problems, doesn't mean that all phones are affected. AND, just because person B is perfectly happy and having no problems, doesn't mean that no one else can be having problems.
Stop acting like 6th graders. Grow up, show some maturity, and be patient while Apple investigates. It will all get sorted out eventually. I know Apple hasn't sent you a sweet greeting card apologizing and telling you they are looking into it. But rest assured that they are. Too much money is at stake for them not to get to the bottom of it. If for no other reason than to cover their ass.
Chill out!