Jobs is being an ignorant twunt by telling customers 'they are holding it wrong' The iPhone 4 is a defective design and Apple is in denial that it is defective.
I'm sorry, but I'm with Mr. Jobs on this one. If you have to GRIP your phone by wrapping your hand around the whole of the back and sides, then you're holding it wrong. I've seen several people with the new iPhone, in addition to using one myself, and have not seen any significant drop in signal. Even in the areas where my 2g iPhone dropped to 1 bar, I have 3+ bars with the iPhone 4.
It's NOT defective. ANY phone you wrap your hand around in a firm grip is going to suffer from reception issues. The FCC requires the antennae to be mounted as far from the users head as possible. In most modern phones, it's in the bottom.
The problem here is 1.7 million iPhone 4s sold in the span of a couple of days. My issues is this: 1,700,000 phones were sold, yet a small portion are having this issue!
Another problem I see is everyone is complaining about reception issues, yet Nokia, in an attempt to poke fun at Apple resulted in a user posting video of his new Nokia phone dropping from 5 bars to NO SERVICE or zero bars by simply picking the phone up.. Even holding it with an open palm resulted in a total signal loss WITH the AT&T microcell signal booster!
The fact remains: 1.7 million sold and a few complaining. Those who are suing are just ignorant people who are too stupid to simply return the phone within the 30 day SATISFACTION GUARANTEE period, and the lawyers too greedy to point that out!
People need to get off the bandwagon the media has created in suddenly hating Apple and the new iPhone simply because a few people have issues. The few that aren't happy simply need to return their phones! It's so easy a DROID can do it!
As far as I know it is. They don't assess a return fee if you exchange the phone which they'll do if they find it defective, but if you just want to return it they will, unless they agree it's defective. So far they are not.
That's not how it works in the US. They will try to get you another phone (that's just good business), but you are not bound by law to take it. If you do get a replacement they may even open it up for you and make sure this one works before you leave the store(that's just good business), but they might not and you don't have to let them. You could then return the un-opened box for a full refund, if you think you actually need to pull a fast one on an Apple Store employee. The entire premise that ANY opened iPhone requires a 10% restocking fee is completely BS.
This is well documented stuff. The great thing about living in this day and age is customer protection policies. I recall one of Stephen Hawking's books having an anecdote about a train set he bought as a kid. it went into what a poor product it was and how there was little to no recourse at the time if it was defective. I forget his point, but I recall comparison present day.
If a hardware defect arises and a valid claim is received within the Warranty Period, at its option and to the extent permitted by law, Apple will either (1) repair the hardware defect at no charge, using new parts or refurbished parts that are equivalent to new in performance and reliability, (2) exchange the product with a product that is new or refurbished that is equivalent to new in performance and reliability and is at least functionally equivalent to the original product, or (3) refund the purchase price of the product.
There is a big difference between a defective phone and a phone that is returned to the store. A defective phone qualifies for immediate exchange. A phone that is returned opened and with a complaint of an antenna reception problem that these people are experiencing is classified as a non-defective return and requires a 10% restocking fee.
That's not what you keep writing to jragosta when he says differently. You keep writing ANY in all caps and trollishly using a large font.
You've also ignored the obvious. If Apple does replace phones that are defective, and they aren't replacing phones you claim are defective, doesn't that tell you Apple hasn't determined that the phones are defective?
Don't be an argumentative idiot. I was told when I picked up my phone I had 30 days to return it for a full refund if I didn't like it. Not if it was defective -- if I didn't like it. I am certain anyone returning a phone because they are not satisfied with the reception will have no trouble getting ALL of their money back.
Dunno what "someone" told you, but there have Bern numerous links in the last two pages to the official policy on Apple's website. That is the final word on Apple's policies.
I'm just here to enjoy the trolls You don't see anyone suing nokia, google, HTC, motorola or any other company with the same issues, oh wait that's because they didn't sell 1.5 million phones in 2 days and aren't a quick target, my wife's Nexus One SUCKS for "holding it" issues .. maybe i should get her to sue huh... WHOOT .. IM RICH BITCH
How predictable. How useless. When are we going to make plaintiffs liable for costs if they lose? That would rid us of many of the more speculative and frivolous lawsuits of this sort.
Dunno what "someone" told you, but there have Bern numerous links in the last two pages to the official policy on Apple's website. That is the final word on Apple's policies.
Well, but weren't those all posted by the same person? There has also been evidence presented to contradict that this policy is applied as indicated. So, which is really the final word?
Now if every brand new product generated class action lawsuits for major glitches and design issues, then ignoble lawyers would be even richer than they already are.
Maybe some of these litigious folks should wait for the software fix before suing.
Please indicate where Apple said anything remotely sounding like a 'Softare fix'? Apple at this point in time has said that there is no problem at all - that we are all a bunch of retards that have no idea how to hold a phone.
Sometimes a pistol against a head is what it takes for a brain damaged company to do the right thing.
Don't be an argumentative idiot. I was told when I picked up my phone I had 30 days to return it for a full refund if I didn't like it. Not if it was defective -- if I didn't like it. I am certain anyone returning a phone because they are not satisfied with the reception will have no trouble getting ALL of their money back.
Full refund means you get the full purchase amount back from Apple, including the principal amount and tax.
However, you still pay a restocking fee. That's 10%. On a $300 phone, you pay $320 with tax, and you get refunded the $320, but you are obligated to pay the 10% restocking fee on that amount.
That's not what you keep writing to jragosta when he says differently. You keep writing ANY in all caps and trollishly using a large font.
You've also ignored the obvious. If Apple does replace phones that are defective, and they aren't replacing phones you claim are defective, doesn't that tell you Apple hasn't determined that the phones are defective?
Any phone means any non-defective phone, you know that. There is a separate policy for non-defective and defective phones.
The return policy is clear about that if you bothered to spend the 5 minutes to read through it.
I'm sorry, but I'm with Mr. Jobs on this one. If you have to GRIP your phone by wrapping your hand around the whole of the back and sides, then you're holding it wrong.
I challenge you to surf the web (or do anything else with it that requires the unit to be flat, pointed towards your eyes) without in some way cupping it in your left hand (if you're right-handed). If you're solely on 3G, the signal drop - for those who have the problem, like I do -- then essentially nullifies what you're trying to accomplish.
I can certainly try and hold it in a way that mitigates the problem, but all the ones I've tried typically increase the chance that the phone might slip out of my hand.
And, you don't think that hundreds of thousands of customers didn't buy from Apple's online store?!
I don't think anybody outside of Apple or AT&T can give us those figures - and again, if the phones are defective, you should not have to pay for a restocking fee.
It's only certain segment of the customers who are psychopaths. It's no different than the user discussion forums where only those with problems show up. They quickly extrapolate their fellow commiserators to include the entire Apple universe, quickly and solemnly declaring their issue to be universal or widespread. They feel more reassured if they are not alone in their fury against Apple. It also masks their inability to actually know what the issue really is.
So it is with the Death Grip issue. It's almost a certainty that this involves a minority of users. A whole lot of people are running off at the mouth, posting links, furiously ramping up the heat yet don't even own the device. What's up with that? But they are enraged and vocal so it only SEEMS they are the majority. They are not. They are the psychopaths.
FT!
Quote:
Originally Posted by g3pro
There is a big difference between a defective phone and a phone that is returned to the store. A defective phone qualifies for immediate exchange. A phone that is returned opened and with a complaint of an antenna reception problem that these people are experiencing is classified as a non-defective return and requires a 10% restocking fee.
It's really this simple:
- If the phone is defective, Apple will refund 100% of your money.
- If the phone is not defective, Apple keeps 10% -- but since they only do that on non-defective phones, that's reasonable.
So, it's up to you. If you can prove that the phone is defective, you get your money back. All you need is to prove your complaint.
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse
I think there is an obvious tone of hysteria and anger in your posts. However, let's put it to the forum. How many of you think ski1's response on this issue is over the top considering he isn't affected by iP4 issues because he doesn't own one?
ROTFLMAO. I've argued that NO ONE who doesn't have an iPhone 4 should be babbling about problems with them, but he's by far the worst.
I don't think anybody outside of Apple or AT&T can give us those figures - and again, if the phones are defective, you should not have to pay for a restocking fee.
I do believe seeing a 600,000 number sold during the pre-release on the Apple Online Store a couple of weeks ago.
But Apple claims these are non-defective phones. They claim this is normal operation for a cell phone. So to them, it's not defective.
Unless you can provide an official link that says what Apple considered a defect or not (From Apple.com or from somebody on the record from Apple), you cannot say that with absolute certainty. Even if you could, it would be meaningless anyway - Apple cannot state such a thing as not being a defect - no company can just deny something is a defect.
Comments
Apple need a kick in the bollocks by consumers.
Jobs is being an ignorant twunt by telling customers 'they are holding it wrong' The iPhone 4 is a defective design and Apple is in denial that it is defective.
I'm sorry, but I'm with Mr. Jobs on this one. If you have to GRIP your phone by wrapping your hand around the whole of the back and sides, then you're holding it wrong. I've seen several people with the new iPhone, in addition to using one myself, and have not seen any significant drop in signal. Even in the areas where my 2g iPhone dropped to 1 bar, I have 3+ bars with the iPhone 4.
It's NOT defective. ANY phone you wrap your hand around in a firm grip is going to suffer from reception issues. The FCC requires the antennae to be mounted as far from the users head as possible. In most modern phones, it's in the bottom.
The problem here is 1.7 million iPhone 4s sold in the span of a couple of days. My issues is this: 1,700,000 phones were sold, yet a small portion are having this issue!
Another problem I see is everyone is complaining about reception issues, yet Nokia, in an attempt to poke fun at Apple resulted in a user posting video of his new Nokia phone dropping from 5 bars to NO SERVICE or zero bars by simply picking the phone up.. Even holding it with an open palm resulted in a total signal loss WITH the AT&T microcell signal booster!
http://www.techrockstar.com/2010/06/...ones%E2%80%99/
The fact remains: 1.7 million sold and a few complaining. Those who are suing are just ignorant people who are too stupid to simply return the phone within the 30 day SATISFACTION GUARANTEE period, and the lawyers too greedy to point that out!
People need to get off the bandwagon the media has created in suddenly hating Apple and the new iPhone simply because a few people have issues. The few that aren't happy simply need to return their phones! It's so easy a DROID can do it!
As far as I know it is. They don't assess a return fee if you exchange the phone which they'll do if they find it defective, but if you just want to return it they will, unless they agree it's defective. So far they are not.
That's not how it works in the US. They will try to get you another phone (that's just good business), but you are not bound by law to take it. If you do get a replacement they may even open it up for you and make sure this one works before you leave the store(that's just good business), but they might not and you don't have to let them. You could then return the un-opened box for a full refund, if you think you actually need to pull a fast one on an Apple Store employee. The entire premise that ANY opened iPhone requires a 10% restocking fee is completely BS.
This is well documented stuff. The great thing about living in this day and age is customer protection policies. I recall one of Stephen Hawking's books having an anecdote about a train set he bought as a kid. it went into what a poor product it was and how there was little to no recourse at the time if it was defective. I forget his point, but I recall comparison present day.
There is a big difference between a defective phone and a phone that is returned to the store. A defective phone qualifies for immediate exchange. A phone that is returned opened and with a complaint of an antenna reception problem that these people are experiencing is classified as a non-defective return and requires a 10% restocking fee.
That's not what you keep writing to jragosta when he says differently. You keep writing ANY in all caps and trollishly using a large font.
You've also ignored the obvious. If Apple does replace phones that are defective, and they aren't replacing phones you claim are defective, doesn't that tell you Apple hasn't determined that the phones are defective?
Don't be an argumentative idiot. I was told when I picked up my phone I had 30 days to return it for a full refund if I didn't like it. Not if it was defective -- if I didn't like it. I am certain anyone returning a phone because they are not satisfied with the reception will have no trouble getting ALL of their money back.
Dunno what "someone" told you, but there have Bern numerous links in the last two pages to the official policy on Apple's website. That is the final word on Apple's policies.
That doesn't apply to defects and only applies to the online store - not the retail stores.
And, you don't think that hundreds of thousands of customers didn't buy from Apple's online store?!
Dunno what "someone" told you, but there have Bern numerous links in the last two pages to the official policy on Apple's website. That is the final word on Apple's policies.
Well, but weren't those all posted by the same person? There has also been evidence presented to contradict that this policy is applied as indicated. So, which is really the final word?
"Steve Jobs" and "philanthropy" in the same sentence - LOL
Heck, if Bill Gates can do it, I'd think it would be a cakewalk for Jobs.
Now if every brand new product generated class action lawsuits for major glitches and design issues, then ignoble lawyers would be even richer than they already are.
Maybe some of these litigious folks should wait for the software fix before suing.
Please indicate where Apple said anything remotely sounding like a 'Softare fix'? Apple at this point in time has said that there is no problem at all - that we are all a bunch of retards that have no idea how to hold a phone.
Sometimes a pistol against a head is what it takes for a brain damaged company to do the right thing.
Don't be an argumentative idiot. I was told when I picked up my phone I had 30 days to return it for a full refund if I didn't like it. Not if it was defective -- if I didn't like it. I am certain anyone returning a phone because they are not satisfied with the reception will have no trouble getting ALL of their money back.
Full refund means you get the full purchase amount back from Apple, including the principal amount and tax.
However, you still pay a restocking fee. That's 10%. On a $300 phone, you pay $320 with tax, and you get refunded the $320, but you are obligated to pay the 10% restocking fee on that amount.
My issues is this: 1,700,000 phones were sold, yet a small portion are having this issue!
How do you know only a small percentage is affected ?
That's not what you keep writing to jragosta when he says differently. You keep writing ANY in all caps and trollishly using a large font.
You've also ignored the obvious. If Apple does replace phones that are defective, and they aren't replacing phones you claim are defective, doesn't that tell you Apple hasn't determined that the phones are defective?
Any phone means any non-defective phone, you know that. There is a separate policy for non-defective and defective phones.
The return policy is clear about that if you bothered to spend the 5 minutes to read through it.
I'm sorry, but I'm with Mr. Jobs on this one. If you have to GRIP your phone by wrapping your hand around the whole of the back and sides, then you're holding it wrong.
I challenge you to surf the web (or do anything else with it that requires the unit to be flat, pointed towards your eyes) without in some way cupping it in your left hand (if you're right-handed). If you're solely on 3G, the signal drop - for those who have the problem, like I do -- then essentially nullifies what you're trying to accomplish.
I can certainly try and hold it in a way that mitigates the problem, but all the ones I've tried typically increase the chance that the phone might slip out of my hand.
Any phone means any non-defective phone, you know that. There is a separate policy for non-defective and defective phones.
The return policy is clear about that if you bothered to spend the 5 minutes to read through it.
But Apple claims these are non-defective phones. They claim this is normal operation for a cell phone. So to them, it's not defective.
And, you don't think that hundreds of thousands of customers didn't buy from Apple's online store?!
I don't think anybody outside of Apple or AT&T can give us those figures - and again, if the phones are defective, you should not have to pay for a restocking fee.
It's only certain segment of the customers who are psychopaths. It's no different than the user discussion forums where only those with problems show up. They quickly extrapolate their fellow commiserators to include the entire Apple universe, quickly and solemnly declaring their issue to be universal or widespread. They feel more reassured if they are not alone in their fury against Apple. It also masks their inability to actually know what the issue really is.
So it is with the Death Grip issue. It's almost a certainty that this involves a minority of users. A whole lot of people are running off at the mouth, posting links, furiously ramping up the heat yet don't even own the device. What's up with that? But they are enraged and vocal so it only SEEMS they are the majority. They are not. They are the psychopaths.
FT!
There is a big difference between a defective phone and a phone that is returned to the store. A defective phone qualifies for immediate exchange. A phone that is returned opened and with a complaint of an antenna reception problem that these people are experiencing is classified as a non-defective return and requires a 10% restocking fee.
It's really this simple:
- If the phone is defective, Apple will refund 100% of your money.
- If the phone is not defective, Apple keeps 10% -- but since they only do that on non-defective phones, that's reasonable.
So, it's up to you. If you can prove that the phone is defective, you get your money back. All you need is to prove your complaint.
I think there is an obvious tone of hysteria and anger in your posts. However, let's put it to the forum. How many of you think ski1's response on this issue is over the top considering he isn't affected by iP4 issues because he doesn't own one?
ROTFLMAO. I've argued that NO ONE who doesn't have an iPhone 4 should be babbling about problems with them, but he's by far the worst.
I don't think anybody outside of Apple or AT&T can give us those figures - and again, if the phones are defective, you should not have to pay for a restocking fee.
I do believe seeing a 600,000 number sold during the pre-release on the Apple Online Store a couple of weeks ago.
But Apple claims these are non-defective phones. They claim this is normal operation for a cell phone. So to them, it's not defective.
Is it just me, or is ski1 starting to sound a bit like an alias tekstud was holding in the bag for when his Stevie alias eventually got banned?
Don't be an argumentative idiot.
Look, you can look up past interactions and know that I am not g3pro's biggest fan. He's almost always negative about Apple.
That is, however, no excuse for calling him names.
Be a gentleman, and take it back.
But Apple claims these are non-defective phones. They claim this is normal operation for a cell phone. So to them, it's not defective.
Unless you can provide an official link that says what Apple considered a defect or not (From Apple.com or from somebody on the record from Apple), you cannot say that with absolute certainty. Even if you could, it would be meaningless anyway - Apple cannot state such a thing as not being a defect - no company can just deny something is a defect.