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Apple's massive $3B bet on Beats a sure thing compared to all-in gamble on NeXT in 1996 - Page 3

post #81 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by danyak View Post

No idea how to judge the transaction - except I have to say that as much as I like most Apple products, for me, Apple Radio is useless. Never ceases to amaze me by playing songs unrelated the station I created. I mean, such bad matches I just have to quit it and play my own mix.

 

Yes, you do seem to get some interesting changes.

Better than my Bose, better than my Skullcandy's, listening to Mozart through my LeBron James limited edition PowerBeats by Dre is almost as good as my Sennheisers.
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Better than my Bose, better than my Skullcandy's, listening to Mozart through my LeBron James limited edition PowerBeats by Dre is almost as good as my Sennheisers.
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post #82 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by rezwits View Post

Time and Place (Space), I don't even see WHY (not how) you would even possibly compare Beats to NeXT! bah!

 

It was a purely financial comparison based on the relative cost to Apple of the acquisitions based on the time that they were made.

 

1997 $ vs 2014 $

 

Keep calm.

 

That is all.

Better than my Bose, better than my Skullcandy's, listening to Mozart through my LeBron James limited edition PowerBeats by Dre is almost as good as my Sennheisers.
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Better than my Bose, better than my Skullcandy's, listening to Mozart through my LeBron James limited edition PowerBeats by Dre is almost as good as my Sennheisers.
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post #83 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by daveinpublic View Post


Why would I throw money away? I can buy a pair of headphones that sound better and are better quality for that money. The beats brand means nothing to me. They cost a lot because they cost a lot. Apple costs a lot, but they also have a reputation and I've had positive experiences with them through friends and using them now and again. Now I own a lot of apple stuff. Beats stuff is repeatedly shown to be like a nike brand, only expensive because celebrities wear it and the advertising all over.

 

...and people who used whatever came in the box and never thought of spending big money on headphones are buying Beats by the thousands.

 

All brought about by smart business people who had a vision, realised it and are now a part of Apple.

Better than my Bose, better than my Skullcandy's, listening to Mozart through my LeBron James limited edition PowerBeats by Dre is almost as good as my Sennheisers.
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Better than my Bose, better than my Skullcandy's, listening to Mozart through my LeBron James limited edition PowerBeats by Dre is almost as good as my Sennheisers.
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post #84 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post
 

Before

 

[member of NWA]

 

After

 

[member of the executive team for one of the richest corporations on the planet]

 

Pretty cool, isn't it?

post #85 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by sucaj View Post

Way to miss the point.  I do not "abhor a bass-y beat".  I prefer my headphones to accurately recreate the sound of what I'm listening to (shocker, I know).  When I want a lot of bass, as I frequently do, I turn up the EQ - like everyone else since the dawn of home stereo.  

Beats takes that power out of my hands by artificially enhancing the low-end regardless of whether I want it or not - a process which causes clipping and results in inferior sound.  Their hardware isn't any better at the low-end than the cheapest of headphones - it's just artificially amplified at all times.  It's not any more complicated than that.  In fact, not only is the hardware not better, it's worse - by overstimulating the senses with a heavy and impressive low end, they overshadow the pathetic performance from the midrange and upper frequencies in the crappy driver components they use.  

Can't argue with any of that, just saying that what you call overstimulating, pathetic, crappy, etc., is what drives the sales, not what to your eyes looks like style or image. Your senses are tuned differently, mine as well, from this generation's that we're talking about. They came up with different sound systems, different drugs, all that stuff that makes one generation separate from another musically.

If bests had tried to sell balanced headphones they wouldn't have caught on. The fact remains that they're the first to succeed on the street because of that crappy sound. Apple is probably going to try to improve them, but you know they're going have keep them bass heavy somehow or other.
Edited by Flaneur - 5/29/14 at 4:53pm
post #86 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by AdonisSMU View Post
 

- Profitable company
- Sells expensive headphones people are willing to buy in large quantities
- Streaming service
- Content creator connections
- Previous work history with the people involved
- A way to add value by getting people to use Apple related products on other platforms
- Apple can get far more favorable pricing on components than Beats alone. So there is a clear path for Apple to significantly improve upon the quality of the headphones.

 

If acquiring an already thriving and highly profitable business is not in Apple's DNA, it should be. 

Why do you people keep saying Beats is profitable? They make no profits dude. That $1.1 billion figure was sales, not profits. Their streaming service actually lose the most money and would eventually be discontinued over time had it attempted to exist on it's own.

Paul Thurrott on iPad (2010): "Anyone who believes this thing is a game changer is a tool. I'm sorry, but that's just the way it is."

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Paul Thurrott on iPad (2010): "Anyone who believes this thing is a game changer is a tool. I'm sorry, but that's just the way it is."

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post #87 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by AWilliams87 View Post

Why do you people keep saying Beats is profitable? They make no profits dude. That $1.1 billion figure was sales, not profits. Their streaming service actually lose the most money and would eventually be discontinued over time had it attempted to exist on it's own.

Why do you keep saying they make no profits, dude? Where is your evidence to support that claim?

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post #88 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by daveinpublic View Post

You're a
You're a really big beats fan aren't you?

No, actually, I'm a fan of Apple moving into as many markets as possible, as long as they can keep their aesthetics and ethics intact. I never listen to the kind of music beats are designed for, and I generally don't like unreal bass. My taste has nothing to do with this. It's about including another third of the world (or so) into Apple's user base. The more people who speak the Apple language the better.
post #89 of 109
Didn't I hear that Apple is trying to change the standard mini plug? Picking up beats seems it would really help with adoption of a new standard there...
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post #90 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert.Public View Post

Didn't I hear that Apple is trying to change the standard mini plug? Picking up beats seems it would really help with adoption of a new standard there...

I seem to recall seeing patents. But we're talking headphones so perhaps Apple, if this comes to pass, will do like it did with mDP by making it free. It's possible they need more data to pass through the headphone if they want the "origin' wearable electronics to have some sort of biometric in the ear canal with in-ear phones. That's a reason to change it up from the 3.5mm jack. Still, we might be getting close to where BT headsets are a viable alternative.

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post #91 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

Well this is disappointing. Apparently the home automation rumors that the Financial times reported on are nothing more than a Made for iPhone program for connected devices in your home. Essentially all of those devices would still be controlled by their respective individual apps. I hope Apple isn't considering that some big announcement for Monday. I don't see anything exciting about that. It's about as exciting as the MFI game controllers. Zzzzzzz

http://gigaom.com/2014/05/29/heres-how-apples-smart-home-program-will-work-2/

First, it's a rumour based on another rumour.

Second, you are on the wrong thread.

Third, even if Apple obtaining Beats turned out to be a dude in the future, it's a mere 0.5% of their market cap. They can always sell it back.

post #92 of 109

Seems that even the biggest Apple defenders on AI are having a hard time rationalizing the Beats purchase to themselves.  Maybe that's why there is no fluffy DED article yet?

post #93 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by Haggar View Post

Seems that even the biggest Apple defenders on AI are having a hard time rationalizing the Beats purchase to themselves.  Maybe that's why there is no fluffy DED article yet?

Can you back that up?

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post #94 of 109
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post
Can you back that up?

 

It’s Haggar.

post #95 of 109

I still don't understand.

 

How is Beats going to help Apple give focus?

 

How is it compatible with Apple's culture? Beats has about a gazillion different colored headphones on their website. From tacky to bloated. I can't see their products mix with the refined zen like esthetic of Jonathan Ive?

 

Well, I guess we will have to wait until Monday.

 

The comparison with Next is a bit wide off the mark:

1. Jimmy Iovine is not Steve Jobs.
2. The Beats headphones and streaming service are not comparable to the revolutionary Operating system of Next.
3. The Next engineering team (with Craig Federichi and others) was full of bright people. Apple was buying Technology and a visionary Leader (the founder of Apple) at the time. Today Apple is buying a lifestyle and a rapper ?!? 

 

Everything is possible now.

Bring on the golden 5.5" iPhone. It'll certainly fit in dr Dre's pockets.
 
This article has made me even more suspicious.

post #96 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by sucaj View Post

This acquisition has almost single-handedly sucked out all of my enthusiasm for Apple... and I say this as the owner of my 6th iPhone, 3rd iPad, and countless MacBooks/Powerbooks.   Facebook and Google are busy acquiring innovative tech companies like Oculus and Word Lens - and Apple is busy acquiring for image and style.  This is like Apple acquiring king-of-shitty-audio Bose.  If you think Beats sound good, you should have turned up your bass EQ and saved yourself the $200 brand fee.  This is a horrible mismatch in company culture and product design approach.  This is the business version of cranky old neighbor Tim Cook listening to "the rap music" in order to relate to the neighborhood kids. 

The thing about oculus is that they're still in beta.

Apple is more than a tech company, it's a lifestyle brand. What I see in Beats is an unparalleled ability to market their products in a way that's similar to Apple
Their hardware may not justify, but given Apples world class engineering team I think that's a relatively easy problem to solve.
post #97 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

The Beats brand is garbage compared to Apple, so it makes no sense at all for Apple to want to build off of that.

What's next? Is Ferrari going to acquire the Ford Pinto brand, because they wish to build off of that, since their own name isn't good enough obviously?
There's more parallelism between the beats brand and apple than you might think.

Beats like apple is revered amongst general consumers, hated by a subset of techies and loved by others.
post #98 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post
 

Before

 

 

After

Rap music is definitely inferior to classical music. If you have ever gone Cold Turkey and just listened to classical music for several months, and then gone back to mainstream music, your brain is like "What the hell is this simplisitic sh*t?" You just giggle at how simple it is.

 

But there is a tradition in Western society of letting the youth find their own way. Maybe in other cultures they try to control their kids and discourage them from listening to s*it. But we tend to let them go their own way, knowing that once they (eventually) start thinking for themselves, they will gradually come back in to the fold. As evidenced by the photos above of Dr. Dre as a hood in his youth, but a successful businessman in his maturity.

 

It's the only way that works in the long run. I know some Asian kids forced to be perfect their whole lives and when they hit 40 they have mid life breakdown.

post #99 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by mr O View Post


1. Jimmy Iovine is not Steve Jobs.
2. The Beats headphones and streaming service are not comparable to the revolutionary Operating system of Next.
3. The Next engineering team (with Craig Federichi and others) was full of bright people. Apple was buying Technology and a visionary Leader (the founder of Apple) at the time. Today Apple is buying a lifestyle and a rapper ?!? 

 

1. What does that even mean? Let's not forget that SJ was fired from Apple, had his ass saved by Ed Catmull and John Lassiter at Pixar, and nearly bankrupted NeXT when they were bought. Nobody knows what the future holds. 

2. Let's not forget that Apple only turned to NeXT after a deal with BeOS fell through. 

3. How do you know what Beats's engineering team looks like? Are you personally aware of their organizational structure and possibly have a list of their personnel?

 

The NeXT deal was a major risk at the time, and only looks smart in hindsight. Bunch of armchair CEOs in here.  

post #100 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

I seem to recall seeing patents. But we're talking headphones so perhaps Apple, if this comes to pass, will do like it did with mDP by making it free. It's possible they need more data to pass through the headphone if they want the "origin' wearable electronics to have some sort of biometric in the ear canal with in-ear phones. That's a reason to change it up from the 3.5mm jack. Still, we might be getting close to where BT headsets are a viable alternative.

If they want to keep making sales to owners of non-Apple devices, they'll stick with the standard plug. There's no business reason to be made for a nonstandard jack unless nonstandard becomes the new standard. 1biggrin.gif

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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GOA

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post #101 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwmac View Post
 

My original negative take was based off of a headphone purchase a young friend of mine made several months back. He often consults me about any tech type questions and asks my opinion. He wanted some high quality headphones and was trying to decide between a few different Beats models. I did some research and gave him a few suggestions for models by Shure and Sennheiser instead were actually cheaper but seemed to get far better ratings from some pro review sites. He would have none of it. 

 

Young friend probably wouldn't be caught dead with Grados on either, even if his hipster brother gave him a pair.

post #102 of 109
Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer View Post
 

This is an ignorant pile of thought. With just over 300 regular full-time employees, world-wide, Apple gains a world class Operating System for the Consumer to the Federal Govt., decades worth of technologies that are the heart and soul of Apple today.

 

Sorry, but please don't speak of NeXT, unless you were an employee at NeXT. You paint yourself a fool to do so.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post
 

 

I've never worked at NeXT and I'm not connected to them in any way, but I would be offended too, if somebody compared NeXT, which provided the foundation that all Apple products are built upon today, to a company that merely makes headphones. What a joke.:lol:

Quote:
Originally Posted by mr O View Post
The comparison with Next is a bit wide off the mark:


1. Jimmy Iovine is not Steve Jobs.
2. The Beats headphones and streaming service are not comparable to the revolutionary Operating system of Next.
3. The Next engineering team (with Craig Federichi and others) was full of bright people. Apple was buying Technology and a visionary Leader (the founder of Apple) at the time. Today Apple is buying a lifestyle and a rapper ?!? 

 

Aren't you missing the point? It has nothing to do with the relative merits of NeXT vs. Beats. It's only mentioning that when Apple acquired NeXT, Apple's very existence was on the line - it spent 15% of the entire worth of Apple on NeXT. Apple was crumbling at that point, and bet it all on Steve Jobs and a radically new operating system. Big risk, but big reward.

 

The Beats buy, on the other hand, is merely a blip in Apple's finances.

 

That's all the article says.

post #103 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by AdonisSMU View Post
 

I prefer bass heavy headphones. So given the reviews I may check out a pair. Now I will have a pair of Bose for at the gym and a pair for elsewhere. After trying out beats streaming service I actually prefer it to Spotify.

You're joking right, Spotify is way better than Beats streaming service.:no:

post #104 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by Potsie Webber View Post

You're joking right, Spotify is way better than Beats streaming service.1oyvey.gif

What evidence do you have to show the algorithm or any other aspects of the service is worse than Spotify?

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post #105 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by sog35 View Post
 

You can get Beats Executive for $199 at Costco

 

http://www.frugalhotspot.com/2013/12/beats-executive-by-dr-dre/

 

Hell no.

 
Where's the new Apple TV?
 
And still waiting for SolipsismX to prove his accusation:
"And yet they haven't loved Google Wallet which you claimed was the exact same thing and kept posting...
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Where's the new Apple TV?
 
And still waiting for SolipsismX to prove his accusation:
"And yet they haven't loved Google Wallet which you claimed was the exact same thing and kept posting...
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post #106 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by ascii View Post
 

Rap music is definitely inferior to classical music. If you have ever gone Cold Turkey and just listened to classical music for several months, and then gone back to mainstream music, your brain is like "What the hell is this simplisitic sh*t?" You just giggle at how simple it is.

 

But there is a tradition in Western society of letting the youth find their own way. Maybe in other cultures they try to control their kids and discourage them from listening to s*it. But we tend to let them go their own way, knowing that once they (eventually) start thinking for themselves, they will gradually come back in to the fold. As evidenced by the photos above of Dr. Dre as a hood in his youth, but a successful businessman in his maturity.

 

It's the only way that works in the long run. I know some Asian kids forced to be perfect their whole lives and when they hit 40 they have mid life breakdown.

 

Have you ever listened to classical music on Beats headphones? What a sin.

And that look of Princess Leia Cinnabon buns on your head? Stoopid.

 

The Star Wars Beats edition.

 

 
Where's the new Apple TV?
 
And still waiting for SolipsismX to prove his accusation:
"And yet they haven't loved Google Wallet which you claimed was the exact same thing and kept posting...
Reply
 
Where's the new Apple TV?
 
And still waiting for SolipsismX to prove his accusation:
"And yet they haven't loved Google Wallet which you claimed was the exact same thing and kept posting...
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post #107 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by Potsie Webber View Post
 

You're joking right, Spotify is way better than Beats streaming service.:no:

 

Try Beats music. Its actually better than Spotify. Spotify search is not good. I get alot of results that are legitimate covers and I also get karaoke tracks and random users who name stuff the same so people will listen to it etc... Every so often it turns the offline feature off. On more than one occasion when using Spotify i'd download music to my device one day and the next it would no longer be there. I was not a happy camper. I tried Beats music and it has been very smooth sailing thus far. That is why I said it is a better version of Spotify. It is easier to use. 

 

As far as the headphones go... I noticed that comparably priced headphones in the $350-$400 actually had bout the same sound quality. Beats tend to run about $20 cheaper than its competitors. The only headphones I thought had better sound than Beats had this touch volume feature that is amazing. However, when I turned the sound up the bass sounded muffly and I hate that. I tested all of the headphones with Truly, Madly Deeply and Adorn. 


Edited by AdonisSMU - 5/30/14 at 10:01pm
post #108 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by hillstones View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by gwmac View Post

 
My original negative take was based off of a headphone purchase a young friend of mine made several months back. He often consults me about any tech type questions and asks my opinion. He wanted some high quality headphones and was trying to decide between a few different Beats models. I did some research and gave him a few suggestions for models by Shure and Sennheiser instead were actually cheaper but seemed to get far better ratings from some pro review sites. He would have none of it. He would not consider those brands for even a second. It was Beats or nothing. So even though he knew review sites rated Beats poorly and thought they were overpriced, that is what he wanted and would not even consider superior sounding and cheaper alternatives. That says a lot. Imagine how sticky the consumers will be once Apple engineers get a chance to actually make Beats headphones sound far better. 
Reviews can be subjective and so can sound to any person.  Although you made recommendations, maybe your friend did not like the sound of Shure or Sennheiser.  Maybe he preferred the sound quality of Beats, even though you don't like them.  Maybe he hurt your ego for not going with headphones you wanted him to buy, but it sounds like he found headphones that he likes.  The Beats headphones do not sound bad, if that is the sound you prefer.  Many people either love or hate Bose products, but it all depends on the sound quality you prefer.  

I had the Harmon Kardon original SoundSticks (USB) for over 10 years.  They are highly reviewed and award winning in design.  I always thought they sounded great, which they still do.  I recently replaced them with the Bose Companion IIIs, and the Bose sound better than the SoundSticks in my opinion.  They have a brighter sound, deeper bass, and more power than the HKs.  The Bose also look better in appearance, matching the look of my iMac better than the HKs.

Don't knock your friend for listening to your advice, then deciding on his own what he preferred to buy.  I am sure he considered your options, but preferred the sound of Beats.

It's one of life's dilemmas: should we criticise people for exercising bad judgement? I think we should, strongly.
"If the young are not initiated into the village, they will burn it down just to feel its warmth."
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"If the young are not initiated into the village, they will burn it down just to feel its warmth."
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post #109 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by Haggar View Post

Seems that even the biggest Apple defenders on AI are having a hard time rationalizing the Beats purchase to themselves.  Maybe that's why there is no fluffy DED article yet?

Hold your horses and wait for WWDC. It might have the odd thing worth writing about.
"If the young are not initiated into the village, they will burn it down just to feel its warmth."
- African proverb
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