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The US is going bankrupt

post #1 of 28
Thread Starter 
How to sink America
A very sobering analysis of the Neocon "we know better" attitude.

Mr. Bush has destroyed the US for generations to come. No, this is not some fear mongering it's the simple truth and completely based in fact.
We better start learning Chinese, Arabic and Suahili. Welcome to the third world nation of America. The land of the shackled and indebted.
post #2 of 28
The millions of people trying to board the ship each day don't seem to think its sinking. Yeah Bush screwed up, but we are not doomed. We don't need to learn Arabic and Suahili. Chinese girls are hot so learning Chinese is well advised.
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post #3 of 28
What's Suahili and where can I sign up for a course?
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #4 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by jamac View Post

How to sink America
A very sobering analysis of the Neocon "we know better" attitude.

Mr. Bush has destroyed the US for generations to come. No, this is not some fear mongering it's the simple truth and completely based in fact.
We better start learning Chinese, Arabic and Suahili. Welcome to the third world nation of America. The land of the shackled and indebted.

A prophecy which came true.


(Thanks Former Lurker for this list. There is really some interesting stuff in here.)
yes I want oil genocide.
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yes I want oil genocide.
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post #5 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by jamac View Post

Mr. Bush has destroyed the US for generations to come. No, this is not some fear mongering it's the simple truth and completely based in fact.

Nobody is denying President Bush's spending record... but to compare his record with the clear and wild excesses of the Obama Administration then blame President Bush for it is clear hypocrisy...



Quote:
Originally Posted by jamac View Post

We better start learning Chinese, Arabic and Suahili. Welcome to the third world nation of America. The land of the shackled and indebted.

Again... cite who to blame:

post #6 of 28



eye
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post #7 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by Camp David View Post

Nobody is denying President Bush's spending record... but to compare his record with the clear and wild excesses of the Obama Administration then blame President Bush for it is clear hypocrisy...

The date of this thread is 1/24/2008. When Mr. Bush said: "The economy is sound" some people here had a good grasp of what was going to happen.
You are not one of them.

Clear hypocrisy? Fox news still blames Clinton for Fannie May and Freddy Mac. Bush never did anything ..... wrong.

Repukenican leadership has destroyed the US, period. This fall they will loose at least another 10 seats in the senate and 25 in the house.
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yes I want oil genocide.
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post #8 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wormhole View Post

The date of this thread is 1/24/2008. When Mr. Bush said: "The economy is sound" some people here had a good grasp of what was going to happen. You are not one of them.

Relevance to your point? Moreover, when George Bush was president the United States was not facing bankruptcy, unemployment was not at 10%, we were growing jobs, we were not $13 Trillion in debt, and our Gulf water was much cleaner... Everything since Obama came to town has been ruined.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wormhole View Post

Clear hypocrisy? Fox news still blames Clinton for Fannie May and Freddy Mac. Bush never did anything ..... wrong.


President Bush attempted to address Fannie Mae/Freddie Mac issue in 2003; specifically he proposed Fannie Mae / Freddie Mac supervision in 2003, to control the entities and return them to solvency. Democrats in Congress voted against this control! Specifically Barney Frank and Chris Dodd, both Democrats, were having way too much fun using Fannie Mae/Freddie Mac as their personal cookie jar that led to the housing crisis through idiotic unsecured low income loans. Interestingly enough, the federal takeover of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac (that President Bush proposed back in 2003, eventually took place and moved the entities into conservatorship of government sponsored enterprises (Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac) by the U.S. Treasury took place in September 2008. Had Democrats followed Bush's advise Fannie Mae/Freddie Mac would be on solid footing today.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Wormhole View Post

Repukenican leadership has destroyed the US, period. This fall they will loose at least another 10 seats in the senate and 25 in the house.

Wait... you're predicting that Republicans loose seats?
post #9 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by Camp David View Post

Relevance to your point? Moreover, when George Bush was president the United States was not facing bankruptcy, unemployment was not at 10%, we were growing jobs, we were not $13 Trillion in debt, and our Gulf water was much cleaner... Everything since Obama came to town has been ruined.



President Bush attempted to address Fannie Mae/Freddie Mac issue in 2003; specifically he proposed Fannie Mae / Freddie Mac supervision in 2003, to control the entities and return them to solvency. Democrats in Congress voted against this control! Specifically Barney Frank and Chris Dodd, both Democrats, were having way too much fun using Fannie Mae/Freddie Mac as their personal cookie jar that led to the housing crisis through idiotic unsecured low income loans. Interestingly enough, the federal takeover of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac (that President Bush proposed back in 2003, eventually took place and moved the entities into conservatorship of government sponsored enterprises (Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac) by the U.S. Treasury took place in September 2008. Had Democrats followed Bush's advise Fannie Mae/Freddie Mac would be on solid footing today.




Wait... you're predicting that Republicans loose seats?

Quote:
Moreover, when George Bush was president the United States was not facing bankruptcy, unemployment was not at 10%, we were growing jobs, we were not $13 Trillion in debt,

However you do remember that at the end of his term we were well on the way to all of that. You do remember who was in office when this all came down and who signed the first stimulus package don't you? Much as you'd like it to be not true Obama had nothing to do with what was going on at that time.
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #10 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

However you do remember that at the end of his term we were well on the way to all of that. You do remember who was in office when this all came down and who signed the first stimulus package don't you?

Democrats have held the Congress since 2006; have held the Executive Office since 2008. If all they can do is blame the last president for problems they have had at least four years to address then what is the point in having them in office? Both President Clinton and President Bush entered office in the midst of a recession. Both addressed the recession differently but they both were successful. What have Democrats and Obama done about our economy since 2006 that has worked? Anything? Asked differently, since you evidently support Democrats, what leadership points do you expect from them if all they do is blame their predecessors for problems they should solve?
post #11 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by Camp David View Post

Democrats have held the Congress since 2006; have held the Executive Office since 2008. If all they can do is blame the last president for problems they have had at least four years to address then what is the point in having them in office? Both President and President Bush entered office in the midst of a recession. Both addressed the recession differently but they both were successful. What have Democrats and Obama done about our economy since 2006 that has worked? Anything?

So what? They also had the entire goverment for 6 before that! What the hell happened as this crisis took longer than two years to brew?

Hint : They were out voted out in 06' for a reason.
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #12 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

So what? They also had the entire goverment for 6! What the hell happened as this crisis took longer than two years to brew?

So what's your point? Every crisis predates the executive that addresses it. That's not a reason to blame the prior executive for your failings in addressing it. Many wars that United States became involved generally predated presidents that ended up addressing them; many issues that United States became involved generally predated the presidents that ended up addressing them. The country was in a lot better position financially in 2007-2008 than it finds itself in 2009-2010. That said, what does Obama (and his supporters) plan to do to address the problems they face? Or are you among those Democrats that plan to stand around blaming Republicans (Bush/Cheney) for every issue your Democrat pair (Obama/Biden) can't handle? Name a single thing Obama has accomplished so far that has positively reflected well on the nation, actually helped citizens in a bi-partisan way, and will be a legacy achievement for the nation? I can't think of any...

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

Hint : They were out voted out in 06' for a reason.

Bush/Cheney served two full terms; you are aware of the 22nd Amendment? They were not voted out. While Congress moved Democrat in 2006 and while there was a tracked change in political races toward Democrats in 2008, and a win by Obama/Biden over McCain/Palin, there was no huge landslide in the presidential race nor a sea change in political views. Politically the nation still leans center right...

Asked again... What have Democrats and Obama done about our economy since 2006 that has worked? Anything?
post #13 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by Camp David View Post

So what's your point? Every crisis predates the executive that addresses it. That's not a reason to blame the prior executive for your failings in addressing it. Many wars that United States became involved generally predated presidents that ended up addressing them; many issues that United States became involved generally predated the presidents that ended up addressing them. The country was in a lot better position financially in 2007-2008 than it finds itself in 2009-2010. That said, what does Obama (and his supporters) plan to do to address the problems they face? Or are you among those Democrats that plan to stand around blaming Republicans (Bush/Cheney) for every issue your Democrat pair (Obama/Biden) can't handle?

Name a single thing Obama has accomplished so far that has positively reflected well on the nation, actually helped citizens in a bi-partisan way, and will be a legacy achievement for the nation? I can't think of any...

My point is it's like you're letting Bush off the hook. If you want to find out how a problem came about you have to look at the root cause. That means looking at who was in charge at it's begining.
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #14 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

My point is it's like you're letting Bush off the hook. If you want to find out how a problem came about you have to look at the root cause. That means looking at who was in charge at it's begining.

Not at all... matter of fact, I and many of the fiscal conservatives screamed long and hard about the Bush bailouts in 2008! Moreover, President Bush never really shared the principles of Reaganomics and Limited Government that traditional conservatives espouse. I hold President Bush to blame for not being more upfront about the nation's perilous fiscal issues.

That said, I expect every president to solve what is on his plate. That is why they are elected every four years... as Chief Executive they are elected to address issues. Not stand around like a baby, like Obama does daily, blaming his predecessor for problems he should address
post #15 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

However you do remember that at the end of his term we were well on the way to all of that. You do remember who was in office when this all came down and who signed the first stimulus package don't you? Much as you'd like it to be not true Obama had nothing to do with what was going on at that time.

Which Bush policies contributed? How can you even compare the first "stimulus" to the bloated, slush fund BEAST that Obama signed. You can't.
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I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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post #16 of 28
It's not hard to figure out why America is going bankrupt. Our current income tax laws has forced American citizens and businesses to send their savings and capital investments out of the country as an income tax dodge, which explains the tremendous amount of outsourcing of jobs and factories and the large number of "banks" at various Caribbean island nations.

I'd like to see the US income tax system drastically simplified to something like Steve Forbes' flat tax proposal, where you essentially have NO income tax on the first US$36,000 of income and earned income above that taxed at a marginal rate of 17% with no deductions. Best of all, there will be NO taxes on interest from bank accounts, capital gains, dividend payments and estate, which means no more needing to "offshore" savings and capital investments to save on taxes, essentially making the USA an effective legal tax haven by world standards.

In sum total, we need all the incentive to keep personal savings and capital investments staying in the USA (and even attract foreign investment in the USA). And that right there will end the threat of financial bankruptcy.
post #17 of 28
I'll repeat myself in larger font, hoping that jimmac will respond:

Dear jimmac,


Which Bush policies contributed? How can you even compare the first "stimulus" to the bloated, slush fund BEAST that Obama signed?
I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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post #18 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by SactoMan01 View Post

I'd like to see the US income tax system drastically simplified to something like Steve Forbes' flat tax proposal, where you essentially have NO income tax on the first US$36,000 of income and earned income above that taxed at a marginal rate of 17% with no deductions. Best of all, there will be NO taxes on interest from bank accounts, capital gains, dividend payments and estate, which means no more needing to "offshore" savings and capital investments to save on taxes, essentially making the USA an effective legal tax haven by world standards.

I've made similar suggestions in the past... they were NOT well received in this forum.
From out there on the moon, international politics look so petty. You want to grab a politician by the scruff of the neck and drag him a quarter of a million miles out and say, "Look at that!" -...
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From out there on the moon, international politics look so petty. You want to grab a politician by the scruff of the neck and drag him a quarter of a million miles out and say, "Look at that!" -...
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post #19 of 28
Oh, look: The Democrats just "deemed" a non-existent budget as "passed."

http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=37893

Quote:
Last night, as part of a procedural vote on the emergency war supplemental bill, House Democrats attached a document that "deemed as passed" a non-existent $1.12 trillion budget. The execution of the "deeming" document allows Democrats to start spending money for Fiscal Year 2011 without the pesky constraints of a budget.

The procedural vote passed 215-210 with no Republicans voting in favor and 38 Democrats crossing the aisle to vote against deeming the faux budget resolution passed.

Never before -- since the creation of the Congressional budget process -- has the House failed to pass a budget, failed to propose a budget then deemed the non-existent budget as passed as a means to avoid a direct, recorded vote on a budget, but still allow Congress to spend taxpayer money.

We're finished as a country. I pray that we can somehow stop the insanity.
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post #20 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

Oh, look: The Democrats just "deemed" a non-existent budget as "passed."

http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=37893



We're finished as a country. I pray that we can somehow stop the insanity.

You sound like the Republicans in that Southpark episode.

" There's no point in living now that there's democrat in the Whitehouse. It's the end! ".

Jesus!
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #21 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

You sound like the Republicans in that Southpark episode.

" There's no point in living now that there's democrat in the Whitehouse. It's the end! ".

Jesus!

Yeah, that's exactly the same thing as what he was saying... Did you even read what the article stated and you have no problem with it?
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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post #22 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

You sound like the Republicans in that Southpark episode.

" There's no point in living now that there's democrat in the Whitehouse. It's the end! ".

Jesus!

Well, not quite that dramatic but I don't see why we shouldn't start impeachment proceedings!
post #23 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoahJ View Post

Yeah, that's exactly the same thing as what he was saying... Did you even read what the article stated and you have no problem with it?

First you have this :
Quote:
Oh, look: The Democrats just "deemed" a non-existent budget as "passed."

Then you have this :
Quote:
We're finished as a country. I pray that we can somehow stop the insanity.

Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #24 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

First you have this :

Then you have this :


Still not answering the question I see.
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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post #25 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoahJ View Post

Still not answering the question I see.

I gave you examples. If you want to play word games it's not going to help your cause.
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #26 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

I gave you examples. If you want to play word games it's not going to help your cause.

Ok, so you have no problem with what they just did. Is that what you are saying? So there is no question or word games:

The execution of the "deeming" document allows Democrats to start spending money for Fiscal Year 2011 without the pesky constraints of a budget.

You find this to be ok and normal?
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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post #27 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

You sound like the Republicans in that Southpark episode.

" There's no point in living now that there's democrat in the Whitehouse. It's the end! ".

Jesus!

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

First you have this :

Then you have this :


Funny, because I didn't even mention the President. I'm also not the one the highlighted the word "Democrats." Though, perhaps I should have...since they are the ones in charge. There was not a single Republican vote for the non-existent budget.

Do you not understand what just happened here? They just voted themselves a $1.2 trillion blank check with OUR money. They don't even have to provide an accounting of what OUR money is being spent on. They just get to spend it. Worse still, they "deemed as passed" a "budget" that literally does not exist. It's not even an emergency funding measure, or interim budget.

If you can't see how deplorable and outrageous this...if you can't see past partisan politics on this, then you are hopeless.
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post #28 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

Funny, because I didn't even mention the President. I'm also not the one the highlighted the word "Democrats." Though, perhaps I should have...since they are the ones in charge. There was not a single Republican vote for the non-existent budget.

Do you not understand what just happened here? They just voted themselves a $1.2 trillion blank check with OUR money. They don't even have to provide an accounting of what OUR money is being spent on. They just get to spend it. Worse still, they "deemed as passed" a "budget" that literally does not exist. It's not even an emergency funding measure, or interim budget.

If you can't see how deplorable and outrageous this...if you can't see past partisan politics on this, then you are hopeless.

Well I am still waiting for an answer from the Post PPD poster... He is much older and more mature than the rest of us so I expect an honest answer with no sidestepping to be forthcoming any moment now.
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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