the fact that the G4 still has another scheduled revision due means SHIT. it really does. By using that logic we would be using a G3 750cx now just because there were more revisions left in the G3.
Apple will go to the G5 whenever its ready. If that is before or at the same time as the 7460 you can bet your money that Apple will go with the G5 over the 7460</strong><hr></blockquote>
I agree, applenut. Although closing the MHZ may well be achieved with the G4 Apollo as NeoMac indicated.
BTW, NeoMac:
[quote]Motorola did say the G5 is progressing, but they also said, don't get your hopes up so soon (paraphrase). <hr></blockquote>
That's not paraphrasing, Neo...its your interpretation. To me, it could have been a dodge on pre-announcing an Apple product, which the man certainly couldn't do.
I've been saying it all along in my signature. Why do we insist on believing in pie-in-the-sky G5 processors, when it was made clear a year ago that Apollo was the next G4 upgrade in the time-line.
I believe the 'G5' source om MOSR and TheRegister is a Wintel jerk jerking us around. </strong><hr></blockquote>
Because Apple needs processors for both the 'consumer'- and the 'pro'-line.
So let's put it into perspective:
The G4 was introduced at 400 (yikes!), 450 and 500 MHz, and then cut back to 350, 400 and 450 MHz; which actually was what we had with the G3 Yosemite.
By all accounts, the G3 has scaled better than the G4. The G3 was never stuck at 500 MHz for a year, the G4 was. Apple's marketing decision was to put a G3 in comsumer machines, and a G4 in Pro machines. No way in hel was Apple going to have a 'consumer' iMac at faster clock than a G4 powermac. Hence no iMacs faster than 500 MHz.
Let's assume the G5 does surface, and it goes at faster MHz than the G4 we have know (G4e). Fine and dandy, Apple get those G5's in machines once the hit the supply hot spot.
But what about the iMac then? Suppose we'll have 1; 1.2 and 1.4 (or 1.2; 1.4 and 1.6) GHz come MW; where would it leave the iMac? At 700 MHz with a G3? At 900 - 1000 MHz with a G3? Or at 900 - 1000 ( and up, but not over the G5 speeds) MHz G4 with altivec and the superdrive iMovie/ iDVD combo on selected (expensive) configurations?
My money is on a G5 in the powermacs, and apollo G4's in iMacs, with superdrives. If there's one line Jobs would love to utter, it'd be 'DVD burning, now for the consumer, thanks to Apple.'
Apple should be ready for a big jump come January, and I think (and hope, for Apple's sake), that they will deliver.
A lot of interesting stuff coming forward. The report on Architosh is interesting and another piece of evidence. Also, Motorola just updated their PPC processor roadmap. These signs lead me to believe something big is about to happen. Let's just hope.
I've checked out the new PowerPC roadmap, and its G5 information seems in line with the rumours we've been hearing.
Some concerns, though: the roadmap has no mention of AltiVec on the G5, and clockspeeds are stated as beginning at 800 MHz?respecatable, if the chip is as fast as rumours claim, but far from the 1.2?1.6 GHz everyone is expecting.
Right now I'm certain that we'll see G5 Power Macs in January, but what form they'll take is anyone's guess.
Basically states that the G5 we believe in might not be the G5 that we get. But it didn't mention anything about a G4 being the G5. So it looks like we will get G5s in Jan or at least new Power Macs.
Update at <a href="http://www.thinksecret.com."; target="_blank">www.thinksecret.com.</a> pretty much says we're stickin with G4's, but FAST G4's-
[quote]December 3, 2001
No True G5 Power Mac for Macworld, Sources Say
By Nick dePlume, Publisher and Editor in Chief
While Apple will not release a Power Mac in January based on the G5 microprocessor, recent reports on the web have elements of truth to them, sources said.
The new pro desktops, believed to ship at Macworld Expo/San Francisco next month, will reportedly ship with a PowerPC 7460 G4 chip, code-named Apollo. While details of the chip have been available since the G4's release years ago, the 7460 has comprised the top of the G4 line and no Apple hardware has shipped with one as of yet.
The new Power Mac G4s will have blazing speed: The lowest-end model will be just under a gigahertz, while the high-end units will come in at 1.4 gigahertz, easily surpassing the "gigahertz barrier."
Other features on board the new Power Macs will include 266MHz DDR SDRAM, a 256K L2 cache and a 2MB L3 cache on the high-end, and upgraded FireWire connectivity, possibly IEEE 1394b. They will not ship with USB 2, however. Additionally, sources said that Apple is planning to begin bundling more software with its pro hardware -- for example, not all PowerBook owners purchase Microsoft Office, and many need a functional productivity application like AppleWorks.
The source of the recent G5 confusion may be the fact that Apple has considered marketing the unit as a Power Mac G5. This development was first reported by MacEdition's NMR Report early last month, but it is unknown as to whether Apple still has such plans.
As Macworld nears, more accurate information will be obtained, so check back for the latest "dirt."<hr></blockquote>
Yea but the Architosh article came out today as well. So we have no way of knowing who is getting the correct info so we are still at square one. I believe the Architosh article that will will have a G5 in jan just not the real G5, more like it's cousin chip. That is in contradiction to the ThinkSecret article but yet really close. They say a G4 as a G5 and Architosh says G5 cousin as G5.
But, hey, we wil get faster towers in Jan one way or another
Well, maybe it IS the G5 as in PowerPC 8500 G5, but isn't the same as it was originally planned to be. The G5 was talked about as being 64-bit and multi core, however sources say no multi core and the Motorola road map says 32-bit AND 64-bit. Also, maybe some of the originally planned architectural features are not present, or at least won't be initially. I think that since Motorola's road map has 32-bit and 64-bit, we will get a 32-bit G5. Will Rapid IO be there? Who knows, but the G5 will be one hell of a processor that's for sure.
kidred i think this is what your referring to as the mix up, or atleast i hope its that simple
[quote]The source of the recent G5 confusion may be the fact that Apple has considered marketing the unit as a Power Mac G5. This development was first reported by MacEdition's NMR Report early last month, but it is unknown as to whether Apple still has such plans.<hr></blockquote>
Some concerns, though: the roadmap has no mention of AltiVec on the G5, and clockspeeds are stated as beginning at 800 MHz</strong><hr></blockquote>
G5 is a series of chips, not a single design. For example, the 8540 is a G5 class chip, but isn't really suitable for a PowerMac -- I saw no fpu in the technical documents, but there was a vector unit.
Anyway, some G5 class chips will be designed for embedded purposes, where as others will be more suitable for PCs.
Hrm, well I personally believe the g5 will debut at MWSF, My reasonings are mainly due to the fact that we've had the g4 forquite some time now(plus or nearing to 2 years I believe) and before that the g3 was strong for about 2 years) I had forgotten about the g5 for a long time(the last Time I thought about it until just recently was about the time the dual g4s were released)
The fact that Jobs' stated that apple would "close the mhz. gap" by the end of 2001, also helps the cause for g5 believers, however it is still very true that this could be a big hoax,I wish I could know but alas that is impossible.
my neighbor is an ex-apple exec, I'm sure he knows something about this, he left to live in so. cal like two months ago, and if the g5 was in strong development back then(which I'm sure it was) he would probably know if it would be released sometime soon or sometime not soon, I wonder If I should ask him, But I think he's away for a few weeks, oh well major bummer.
Is the g5 a 64 bit processor or not?
if so, is it the first 64 bit? for desktop computing at least?
or has intel had 64 bit and beyond for a long time?
new update in the wacky world of rumors.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Now that is a confusing article. It seems like they are pretty sure IMO, but don't want to go out on limb. I am believer in the principle of "the best answer tends to be the simplest explanation." To me, putting a G5 is the pro line and Apollos in the PB and iMac line makes sense. The G3 can be used to make sure the ibook keeps up with clock speed.
This is truly the most juicy set of rumors I have heard in two years on these boards.
oh and those people who are talking about how MWNY 2001 was the worst macworld ever obvously don't remember the one where Gates' face appeared on the screen
I doubt very much that the G4 Apollo is what Steve Jobs was refering to when he stated that Apple will close the MHz gap by late 2001.
Apollo is just a die shrink and it seems that the priority was to reduce power consumption more than increase performance. Remember that when the x86 processors go .13, they will likely leave Apollo in the dust.
No way Apollo was meant to compete with the P4 and Athlon XP. It is designed to kick mobile Pentium butt. Had Apple wanted to take on the P4 and Athlon XP with Apollo then surely they would have taken advantage of the die shrink to beef up the FP unit (which is currently woeful) and implement a larger L2 cache.
Comments
<strong>
the fact that the G4 still has another scheduled revision due means SHIT. it really does. By using that logic we would be using a G3 750cx now just because there were more revisions left in the G3.
Apple will go to the G5 whenever its ready. If that is before or at the same time as the 7460 you can bet your money that Apple will go with the G5 over the 7460</strong><hr></blockquote>
I agree, applenut. Although closing the MHZ may well be achieved with the G4 Apollo as NeoMac indicated.
BTW, NeoMac:
[quote]Motorola did say the G5 is progressing, but they also said, don't get your hopes up so soon (paraphrase). <hr></blockquote>
That's not paraphrasing, Neo...its your interpretation. To me, it could have been a dodge on pre-announcing an Apple product, which the man certainly couldn't do.
[ 12-02-2001: Message edited by: SDW2001 ]</p>
So I proclaim. Worship me now.
<strong>Regarding ThinkSecret:
I've been saying it all along in my signature. Why do we insist on believing in pie-in-the-sky G5 processors, when it was made clear a year ago that Apollo was the next G4 upgrade in the time-line.
I believe the 'G5' source om MOSR and TheRegister is a Wintel jerk jerking us around.
Because Apple needs processors for both the 'consumer'- and the 'pro'-line.
So let's put it into perspective:
The G4 was introduced at 400 (yikes!), 450 and 500 MHz, and then cut back to 350, 400 and 450 MHz; which actually was what we had with the G3 Yosemite.
By all accounts, the G3 has scaled better than the G4. The G3 was never stuck at 500 MHz for a year, the G4 was. Apple's marketing decision was to put a G3 in comsumer machines, and a G4 in Pro machines. No way in hel was Apple going to have a 'consumer' iMac at faster clock than a G4 powermac. Hence no iMacs faster than 500 MHz.
Let's assume the G5 does surface, and it goes at faster MHz than the G4 we have know (G4e). Fine and dandy, Apple get those G5's in machines once the hit the supply hot spot.
But what about the iMac then? Suppose we'll have 1; 1.2 and 1.4 (or 1.2; 1.4 and 1.6) GHz come MW; where would it leave the iMac? At 700 MHz with a G3? At 900 - 1000 MHz with a G3? Or at 900 - 1000 ( and up, but not over the G5 speeds) MHz G4 with altivec and the superdrive iMovie/ iDVD combo on selected (expensive) configurations?
My money is on a G5 in the powermacs, and apollo G4's in iMacs, with superdrives. If there's one line Jobs would love to utter, it'd be 'DVD burning, now for the consumer, thanks to Apple.'
Apple should be ready for a big jump come January, and I think (and hope, for Apple's sake), that they will deliver.
We'll see soon enough.
<strong>MOSR has 0% credibility with me. TheRegister I will have to wait and see how this pans out.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
I think <a href="http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/29/index.html"; target="_blank">The Register</a> and <a href="http://199.105.116.91/MOSR/"; target="_blank">MOSR</a> both have the same anonymous source supplying them with alleged G5 info.
Some concerns, though: the roadmap has no mention of AltiVec on the G5, and clockspeeds are stated as beginning at 800 MHz?respecatable, if the chip is as fast as rumours claim, but far from the 1.2?1.6 GHz everyone is expecting.
Right now I'm certain that we'll see G5 Power Macs in January, but what form they'll take is anyone's guess.
Basically states that the G5 we believe in might not be the G5 that we get. But it didn't mention anything about a G4 being the G5. So it looks like we will get G5s in Jan or at least new Power Macs.
[quote]December 3, 2001
No True G5 Power Mac for Macworld, Sources Say
By Nick dePlume, Publisher and Editor in Chief
While Apple will not release a Power Mac in January based on the G5 microprocessor, recent reports on the web have elements of truth to them, sources said.
The new pro desktops, believed to ship at Macworld Expo/San Francisco next month, will reportedly ship with a PowerPC 7460 G4 chip, code-named Apollo. While details of the chip have been available since the G4's release years ago, the 7460 has comprised the top of the G4 line and no Apple hardware has shipped with one as of yet.
The new Power Mac G4s will have blazing speed: The lowest-end model will be just under a gigahertz, while the high-end units will come in at 1.4 gigahertz, easily surpassing the "gigahertz barrier."
Other features on board the new Power Macs will include 266MHz DDR SDRAM, a 256K L2 cache and a 2MB L3 cache on the high-end, and upgraded FireWire connectivity, possibly IEEE 1394b. They will not ship with USB 2, however. Additionally, sources said that Apple is planning to begin bundling more software with its pro hardware -- for example, not all PowerBook owners purchase Microsoft Office, and many need a functional productivity application like AppleWorks.
The source of the recent G5 confusion may be the fact that Apple has considered marketing the unit as a Power Mac G5. This development was first reported by MacEdition's NMR Report early last month, but it is unknown as to whether Apple still has such plans.
As Macworld nears, more accurate information will be obtained, so check back for the latest "dirt."<hr></blockquote>
But, hey, we wil get faster towers in Jan one way or another
[quote]The source of the recent G5 confusion may be the fact that Apple has considered marketing the unit as a Power Mac G5. This development was first reported by MacEdition's NMR Report early last month, but it is unknown as to whether Apple still has such plans.<hr></blockquote>
<strong>kidred i think this is what your referring to as the mix up, or atleast i hope its that simple
</strong><hr></blockquote>
Well I think that is one take on it. From what I've read on every rumor site and concluded with is this-
-We will get new power macs that are fast in Jan
Now for the g5-g4 thing. There are 3 stories-
1) The G5 will debut
2) The G5 will actually be a souped up G4
3) The G5 will debut but is not the original G5. It's actually the 32bit at a lower clock speed. (refer to tigerwoods post)
So, everything says yes to G5. The confusion is- is it a new G4 that will be called a G5 or is it a G5 but not the G5 we thought.
I think it's the 32 bit G5 ranging from 800mhz -1.4 ghz but not the G5 on all the rumor sites-ie. 1.6-2.4ghz 64 bit.
<strong>
Some concerns, though: the roadmap has no mention of AltiVec on the G5, and clockspeeds are stated as beginning at 800 MHz</strong><hr></blockquote>
G5 is a series of chips, not a single design. For example, the 8540 is a G5 class chip, but isn't really suitable for a PowerMac -- I saw no fpu in the technical documents, but there was a vector unit.
Anyway, some G5 class chips will be designed for embedded purposes, where as others will be more suitable for PCs.
The fact that Jobs' stated that apple would "close the mhz. gap" by the end of 2001, also helps the cause for g5 believers, however it is still very true that this could be a big hoax,I wish I could know but alas that is impossible.
my neighbor is an ex-apple exec, I'm sure he knows something about this, he left to live in so. cal like two months ago, and if the g5 was in strong development back then(which I'm sure it was) he would probably know if it would be released sometime soon or sometime not soon, I wonder If I should ask him, But I think he's away for a few weeks, oh well major bummer.
Is the g5 a 64 bit processor or not?
if so, is it the first 64 bit? for desktop computing at least?
or has intel had 64 bit and beyond for a long time?
I think the part that speaks of "[four months of testing in prototypes]" is most encouraging.
These are some truly wild rumors. I still think G5 is coming "offcially"....but have my doubts as well.
[ 12-03-2001: Message edited by: SDW2001 ]
[ 12-03-2001: Message edited by: SDW2001 ]</p>
<a href="http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/39/23158.html"; target="_blank">http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/39/23158.html</a>;
new update in the wacky world of rumors.
can anyone say "backtracking"
[ 12-03-2001: Message edited by: rickag ]</p>
<strong>And The Register says
<a href="http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/39/23158.html"; target="_blank">http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/39/23158.html</a>;
new update in the wacky world of rumors.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Now that is a confusing article. It seems like they are pretty sure IMO, but don't want to go out on limb. I am believer in the principle of "the best answer tends to be the simplest explanation." To me, putting a G5 is the pro line and Apollos in the PB and iMac line makes sense. The G3 can be used to make sure the ibook keeps up with clock speed.
This is truly the most juicy set of rumors I have heard in two years on these boards.
Hard-Core Mac users: Want badly, but would live with faster G4's
Average user: Would be nice...
Pro-user: If it makes my rendering faster...
Low end user: Don't care
Hard Core PeeCee user: Don't care
Possible wintel convert: Almost required.
Rumor sites: G5's, and fast ones!
Non-rumor news sites: *Silence*
Motorola: "In progress". Would be nice to release ASAP, but not of top importance.
Apple Marketing: G5 or death.
Apple Sales: "G5? what's that? a desktop? We got this nifty iPod to show you..."
Me: "Couldn't possibly afford another computer (just got a QS 733), bragging rights would be nice tho."
Apollo is just a die shrink and it seems that the priority was to reduce power consumption more than increase performance. Remember that when the x86 processors go .13, they will likely leave Apollo in the dust.
No way Apollo was meant to compete with the P4 and Athlon XP. It is designed to kick mobile Pentium butt. Had Apple wanted to take on the P4 and Athlon XP with Apollo then surely they would have taken advantage of the die shrink to beef up the FP unit (which is currently woeful) and implement a larger L2 cache.