In a few extreme cases, seven factories had been caught having at least at one time hired underage workers, though were weren't more than 25 people involved.
were weren't, were there? do you guys ever proof this stuff?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hattig
And we should think of why our new shiny technology gadget is only $299, because someone is sitting down for 12 hours a day doing repetitive, menial but fiddly work, for a pittance in our terms.
yeah, that's it. and apple's $5,000,000,000 in *net* profit a year, and at&t's $13,000,000,000 in *net* profit a year have nothing to do with that. perhaps if just a little of that net income was shifted we could maintain an attractive price for the device and still pay folks properly. but i'm too greedy.
This is what happens when you outsource your jobs to a communist country that still employs slave labor.
Is anything actually Made in the USA anymore?
Actually, I just spent $900 on new Goodyear tires (made in USA) for my Jeep (made in USA). Apple products are the only ones I buy that are NOT made in the USA or EU. I routinely put products back on the shelf if they are made in China. Why any American would spend their money to support a Communist regime is beyond me. I figure with Apple at least the software is made in the US.
Their hardware competitors are typically using those same factories. As for Microsoft calling attention to it, they will be simultaneously outing Dell and HP among others.
exactly. everyone is complicit. high-profile, easy to target brands like apple attract more criticism than most. we all buy goods every day made in these kind of factories - including those that dish out the guilt trips.
The fact that Apple uses "Designed by Apple in California" is interesting.
There's a reason why they have to mention California. To keep people's minds in the US and not on overseas/production issues (at least that's part of it). I think it also implies that the products are made in California. Think about it. They simply could use "Designed by Apple".
No, they ARE designed by Apple in California.
Actual manufacture and assembly may occur elsewhere. Design and assembly are two different things.
Actually, I just spent $900 on new Goodyear tires (made in USA) for my Jeep (made in USA). Apple products are the only ones I buy that are NOT made in the USA or EU. I routinely put products back on the shelf if they are made in China. Why any American would spend their money to support a Communist regime is beyond me. I figure with Apple at least the software is made in the US.
I try to do the same, but, it's been increasingly hard to do that with electronics. Trading with communist countries used to be a no-no for American companies, now there are stores in th US and Canada (Walmart) where every single product is made in China.
Actually, I just spent $900 on new Goodyear tires (made in USA) for my Jeep (made in USA). Apple products are the only ones I buy that are NOT made in the USA or EU. I routinely put products back on the shelf if they are made in China. Why any American would spend their money to support a Communist regime is beyond me. I figure with Apple at least the software is made in the US.
That communist regime is saving our bacon by buying US debt. If they were not you would be looking at interest rates going through the roof. That's our global reality. \
Yes, but Apple makes a big deal about that little truth. California is much more prominant than China on their packaging...if you think that is not calculated to draw peoples attention then you are willfully blind...
Simply put, only a fraction of the population could afford most anything produced in China if they had the same standard of living, human rights, etc... that we have here. If they did, the cost of production would wind up being similar to having the same products produced here in North America.
Yes, greed is spreading from the USA to the rest of the world. Every factory owner wants to be a billionaire like the high-flying Americans. Congratulations America!
For one, Apple did the inspections and published the report. In that case they are doing the best they can do. Apple does not own these factories, nor do they control the management. These factories are owned and operated by independent contractors; Chinese companies fully owned by Chinese/Taiwanese citizens. These companies should be 100% held liable for their mistreatment of their workers, not Apple.
Apple can only do so much. China is awash in corruption and bribery, therefore no amount of effort by Apple can wipe out these worker abuses. Its all about greed. Pay your worker/employee less and less, so you can be a billionaire. If I remember well, it all started in America and now China has learned very well. Bravo to American greed! It is catching up like wildfire!
Sounds just like most offices in corporate America to me.
That's not to say that I agree with how they are treated in either situation.
I have seen this first-hand (China) and it is despicable.
I lived with it in corporate America for too many years to count. Might just explain my "spotty" resume?
OK, here's the Chinese shell game as I see it... Plants that are in compliance just sub out work to plants that are not in compliance (child labor, horrible working conditions, toxic materials, dangerous equipment). I've seen this first hand. Thus, the factories that are in compliance can fudge the numbers, hide the actual manufacturing locations and pay substandard wages to the "illegal" shops.
In time China will face greater pressure to bring these issues to light. Labor issues and their public's demand for environmental responsibility is growing and will continue to grow.
I did find it interesting that 27% of Apple's Chinese suppliers are FREQUENT violators. You'd think they'd give these suppliers the boot by now.
Yes, but Apple makes a big deal about that little truth. California is much more prominant than China on their packaging...if you think that is not calculated to draw peoples attention then you are willfully blind...
His point was valid.
The fact the specify Designed is an affirmation they're not Made in the US. An admission of guilt or am I just a cynic?
True. But Apple is already charging premium prices for their products, so, there's really no excuse. It's more a result of greedy CEOs and stock holders. How about the Executive Staff take a few million less home and give up a Ferrari or two and pay workers a fair wage.
"Greed" is a naive valuation for self-interest, which is a permanent part of human nature.
Shame on you, Apple. They treat their U.S. employees very well, and they should make sure their partners do the same. Their contracts make for a mighty threat.
Comments
In a few extreme cases, seven factories had been caught having at least at one time hired underage workers, though were weren't more than 25 people involved.
were weren't, were there? do you guys ever proof this stuff?
And we should think of why our new shiny technology gadget is only $299, because someone is sitting down for 12 hours a day doing repetitive, menial but fiddly work, for a pittance in our terms.
yeah, that's it. and apple's $5,000,000,000 in *net* profit a year, and at&t's $13,000,000,000 in *net* profit a year have nothing to do with that. perhaps if just a little of that net income was shifted we could maintain an attractive price for the device and still pay folks properly. but i'm too greedy.
This is what happens when you outsource your jobs to a communist country that still employs slave labor.
Is anything actually Made in the USA anymore?
Actually, I just spent $900 on new Goodyear tires (made in USA) for my Jeep (made in USA). Apple products are the only ones I buy that are NOT made in the USA or EU. I routinely put products back on the shelf if they are made in China. Why any American would spend their money to support a Communist regime is beyond me. I figure with Apple at least the software is made in the US.
Their hardware competitors are typically using those same factories. As for Microsoft calling attention to it, they will be simultaneously outing Dell and HP among others.
exactly. everyone is complicit. high-profile, easy to target brands like apple attract more criticism than most. we all buy goods every day made in these kind of factories - including those that dish out the guilt trips.
The fact that Apple uses "Designed by Apple in California" is interesting.
There's a reason why they have to mention California. To keep people's minds in the US and not on overseas/production issues (at least that's part of it). I think it also implies that the products are made in California. Think about it. They simply could use "Designed by Apple".
No, they ARE designed by Apple in California.
Actual manufacture and assembly may occur elsewhere. Design and assembly are two different things.
...I lived with it in corporate America for two many years to count. Might just explain my "spotty" resume?
Or it could be the math & spelling.
Some companies still have standards against 3rd world labor.
Actually, I just spent $900 on new Goodyear tires (made in USA) for my Jeep (made in USA). Apple products are the only ones I buy that are NOT made in the USA or EU. I routinely put products back on the shelf if they are made in China. Why any American would spend their money to support a Communist regime is beyond me. I figure with Apple at least the software is made in the US.
I try to do the same, but, it's been increasingly hard to do that with electronics. Trading with communist countries used to be a no-no for American companies, now there are stores in th US and Canada (Walmart) where every single product is made in China.
Actually, I just spent $900 on new Goodyear tires (made in USA) for my Jeep (made in USA). Apple products are the only ones I buy that are NOT made in the USA or EU. I routinely put products back on the shelf if they are made in China. Why any American would spend their money to support a Communist regime is beyond me. I figure with Apple at least the software is made in the US.
That communist regime is saving our bacon by buying US debt. If they were not you would be looking at interest rates going through the roof. That's our global reality.
No, they ARE designed by Apple in California.
Yes, but Apple makes a big deal about that little truth. California is much more prominant than China on their packaging...if you think that is not calculated to draw peoples attention then you are willfully blind...
His point was valid.
Or it could be the math & spelling.
Or I could just be your parents financial advisor.
Since I helped them lose their retirement nest egg, they're moving in with you next week.
Simply put, only a fraction of the population could afford most anything produced in China if they had the same standard of living, human rights, etc... that we have here. If they did, the cost of production would wind up being similar to having the same products produced here in North America.
were weren't, were there? do you guys ever proof this stuff?
Why bother when you'll do it for us?
For one, Apple did the inspections and published the report. In that case they are doing the best they can do. Apple does not own these factories, nor do they control the management. These factories are owned and operated by independent contractors; Chinese companies fully owned by Chinese/Taiwanese citizens. These companies should be 100% held liable for their mistreatment of their workers, not Apple.
Apple can only do so much. China is awash in corruption and bribery, therefore no amount of effort by Apple can wipe out these worker abuses. Its all about greed. Pay your worker/employee less and less, so you can be a billionaire. If I remember well, it all started in America and now China has learned very well. Bravo to American greed! It is catching up like wildfire!
Sounds just like most offices in corporate America to me.
That's not to say that I agree with how they are treated in either situation.
I have seen this first-hand (China) and it is despicable.
I lived with it in corporate America for too many years to count. Might just explain my "spotty" resume?
OK, here's the Chinese shell game as I see it... Plants that are in compliance just sub out work to plants that are not in compliance (child labor, horrible working conditions, toxic materials, dangerous equipment). I've seen this first hand. Thus, the factories that are in compliance can fudge the numbers, hide the actual manufacturing locations and pay substandard wages to the "illegal" shops.
In time China will face greater pressure to bring these issues to light. Labor issues and their public's demand for environmental responsibility is growing and will continue to grow.
I did find it interesting that 27% of Apple's Chinese suppliers are FREQUENT violators. You'd think they'd give these suppliers the boot by now.
RIM is Canadian company and they manufacture their phones in Canada.
Some companies still have standards against 3rd world labor.
Try telling that to the army of Inuits on 12-hour shifts. Though maybe they get an extra half-bottle for overtime.
Yes, but Apple makes a big deal about that little truth. California is much more prominant than China on their packaging...if you think that is not calculated to draw peoples attention then you are willfully blind...
His point was valid.
The fact the specify Designed is an affirmation they're not Made in the US. An admission of guilt or am I just a cynic?
This is what happens when you outsource your jobs to a communist country that still employs slave labor.
We get products we can afford & the US gets to outsource it's poverty! Double goodness.
True. But Apple is already charging premium prices for their products, so, there's really no excuse. It's more a result of greedy CEOs and stock holders. How about the Executive Staff take a few million less home and give up a Ferrari or two and pay workers a fair wage.
"Greed" is a naive valuation for self-interest, which is a permanent part of human nature.