That communist regime is saving our bacon by buying US debt. If they were not you would be looking at interest rates going through the roof. That's our global reality. \
This is what happens when you outsource your jobs to a communist country that still employs slave labor.?
Yup, that's it. Damned commies! Those reds are ruining the world for all god fearing Americans.
Actually, I don't think Apple's image will be tarnished by this as outsourcing to Asia, underpaying workers, closing ones eyes to the abuse and poor working conditions, and generally not taking responsibility etc is what everybody does. As consumers we would all balk at paying more (in order for the workers who produce our toys to earn a decent living wage), and the powers that be in China, Vitenam et al cannot suddenly up the prices because us Westerners would just up and leave and take our business elsewhere. Maybe Apple could do more to correct the imbalance. But in the end the power lies with us the consumers. If we insisted, and didn't buy unless.... corporate wealth machines all over the world would scramble to change their ways. An oversimplification, perhaps, but lets not kid ourselves.
Simply put, only a fraction of the population could afford most anything produced in China if they had the same standard of living, human rights, etc... that we have here. If they did, the cost of production would wind up being similar to having the same products produced here in North America.
What do you mean by this..."Nobody else outsources manufacturing to China."?
[B]Working conditions and wages are a humanitarian/labour law issue, and has little to do with Apple's "image of quaity", which they have earned on the strength of their products, not from the people making them under whatever conditions.
Yes but how can this painful excuse for journalism (masquerading as freshman ideological naivety) uphold the tenuous contradiction of Apple's "quality" without ignoring the fact that the Chinese play by Chinese rules (i.e. not playing by the rules unless they're in the good book) not American ones? In fact aren't Chinese rules specifically not the same as American ones?
Precisely! The first bullet-point epotmises the abuse they're putting their people through!
what the hell are you smoking?
The top 4 Bullet points for RIM employee satisfaction are
1. gives employees a free BlackBerry on their first day and covers usage and service fees
2. offers tuition subsidies to employees and is only a short walk to the University of Waterloo and Wilfrid Laurier University
3. helps employees plan for retirement with matching RSP contributions
lets all employees share in the company's success by offering a profit-sharing plan and year-end bonuses
4. provides onsite massage services, flu shot clinics and discounted gym memberships to help employees stay healthy
Edit.
Description of Physical Workspace.
RIM's physical workplace is rated as very good. The company's Waterloo head office location includes 14 buildings that are home to the company's primary research, manufacturing and administrative offices.
It is a 55+ para article in which one para refers to Apple. Mentioned are also Nike, Wal-mart, Dell, HP...... but none of them merits a headline.
And, if you read it, you'll see that the Chinese officials themselves (somewhat) lament the fact that their country is backward on some of these issues, and acknowledge that things have to get better. The article also talks a lot about the complexities involved in making these changes happen.
Guys, it is a far more nuanced issue than a lot of shallow back-and-forth being witnessed here. If the issue really bothers you enough to want to comment, at least, read the article before commenting.
Shame on you, Apple. They treat their U.S. employees very well, and they should make sure their partners do the same. Their contracts make for a mighty threat.
Apple discovered these abuses on their own. Why point fingers when THEY already did the groundwork? If they had simply kept their 'mouths shut' no one would be the wiser.
It is a 55+ para article in which one para refers to Apple. Mentioned are also Nike, Wal-mart, Dell, HP...... but none of them merits a headline.
The media giveth, and the media taketh away. Griping that Apple was singled out in the headline doesn't make them less culpable.
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram
And, if you read it, you'll see that the Chinese officials themselves (somewhat) lament the fact that their country is backward on some of these issues, and acknowledge that things have to get better.
"Lamenting"? They must be sincere!
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram
The article also talks a lot about the complexities involved in making these changes happen.
You could simply choose not to have your product produced in a authoritarian country. How complex is that?
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram
If the issue really bothers you enough to want to comment, at least, read the article before commenting.
It is a 55+ para article in which one para refers to Apple. Mentioned are also Nike, Wal-mart, Dell, HP...... but none of them merits a headline.
And, if you read it, you'll see that the Chinese officials themselves (somewhat) lament the fact that their country is backward on some of these issues, and acknowledge that things have to get better. The article also talks a lot about the complexities involved in making these changes happen.
Guys, it is a far more nuanced issue than a lot of shallow back-and-forth being witnessed here. If the issue really bothers you enough to want to comment, at least, read the article before commenting.
Or at the very least, read Apple's own document on their ongoing supplier compliance issues. Heavens to Murgatroyd.
Or at the very least, read Apple's own document on their ongoing supplier compliance issues. Heavens to Murgatroyd.
If Apple complied with their own "compliance issues" then the Bloomberg article never would have been written and if it was it would not have included Apple's name in the report.
Apple does not have a good track history when it comes to Outsource Employee Satisfaction. That is putting it as politely as I can.
Yes, many other companies have the same manufacturing process but it doesn't excuse any one of them from what is conveyed in the article.
... that when pure labor cost by comparison reaches 60% of labor cost in the U.S., companies will pull back manufacturing to the States. Poor conditions, like these in China, may even accelerate the return.
So I give it between 5 to 8 years and we will start start seeing labels on Apple boxes saying: "Designed by Apple in California. Assembled in North Carolina."
it is pretty obvious to me that niether the Republicans nor the Democrates really give a damn here. Both tend to cover their special interest industries to the detriment of the rest of us. So if we really want to impact the China problem we have to stop buying stuff built in these factories. Nobody else is going to do it for you.
The problem I see though is this is like calling out China while turning a blind eye to what is happening at home. One example is GM which for the life of me still exists as a company, in this case a company that grossly overpays it's workers thus leading to crap automobiles. Then you have your local hospital which for the most part gave staff so overworked the are a danger to the patients. The IT industry in general isn't known for paying overtime either, yet most of these workers have little control over their day to day work schedule.
I'm not trying to justify bad treatment of employees but people have to realize that by buying this stuff you are enabling the practices. Oh and by they way by not doing business with China the workers would be a lot worst off. Yeah the conditions aren't great but it is better than eating bugs to survive.
it is pretty obvious to me that niether the Republicans nor the Democrates really give a damn here. Both tend to cover their special interest industries to the detriment of the rest of us. So if we really want to impact the China problem we have to stop buying stuff built in these factories. Nobody else is going to do it for you.
The problem I see though is this is like calling out China while turning a blind eye to what is happening at home. One example is GM which for the life of me still exists as a company, in this case a company that grossly overpays it's workers thus leading to crap automobiles. Then you have your local hospital which for the most part gave staff so overworked the are a danger to the patients. The IT industry in general isn't known for paying overtime either, yet most of these workers have little control over their day to day work schedule.
I'm not trying to justify bad treatment of employees but people have to realize that by buying this stuff you are enabling the practices. Oh and by they way by not doing business with China the workers would be a lot worst off. Yeah the conditions aren't great but it is better than eating bugs to survive.
Dave
Spot on.
To 'Democrats' and 'Republicans,' you could have added, a bunch of AI posters who might be neither.
People are always so quick to judge others when they themselves are part of what they are judging.
Shame on you, Apple. They treat their U.S. employees very well, and they should make sure their partners do the same. Their contracts make for a mighty threat.
WTF do you think that Apple's 2009 responsibility progress report is trying to do!
The report was done by Apple for Apple so that they can address these things!!! Does anyone ever understand what they read around here anymore?
Will Apple shower $$ on all those workers? No. But they have demonstrated a stake in trying to ensure there are as few abuses as possible and not just do head in the sand ignoring of the issue like the rest of corporate America does.
Comments
That communist regime is saving our bacon by buying US debt. If they were not you would be looking at interest rates going through the roof. That's our global reality.
Start bringing back the bacon here.
This is what happens when you outsource your jobs to a communist country that still employs slave labor.?
Yup, that's it. Damned commies! Those reds are ruining the world for all god fearing Americans.
Actually, I don't think Apple's image will be tarnished by this as outsourcing to Asia, underpaying workers, closing ones eyes to the abuse and poor working conditions, and generally not taking responsibility etc is what everybody does. As consumers we would all balk at paying more (in order for the workers who produce our toys to earn a decent living wage), and the powers that be in China, Vitenam et al cannot suddenly up the prices because us Westerners would just up and leave and take our business elsewhere. Maybe Apple could do more to correct the imbalance. But in the end the power lies with us the consumers. If we insisted, and didn't buy unless.... corporate wealth machines all over the world would scramble to change their ways. An oversimplification, perhaps, but lets not kid ourselves.
Try telling that to the army of Inuits on 12-hour shifts. Though maybe they get an extra half-bottle for overtime.
Yes, and that's the same reason they were rated in Canada's Top 100 Employers in 2009.
RIM is an outstanding company that cares for all employee's and factory workers within Canada where their phones are produced.
http://www.eluta.ca/top-employer-rim
Nobody else outsources manufacturing to China.
Simply put, only a fraction of the population could afford most anything produced in China if they had the same standard of living, human rights, etc... that we have here. If they did, the cost of production would wind up being similar to having the same products produced here in North America.
What do you mean by this..."Nobody else outsources manufacturing to China."?
[B]Working conditions and wages are a humanitarian/labour law issue, and has little to do with Apple's "image of quaity", which they have earned on the strength of their products, not from the people making them under whatever conditions.
Yes but how can this painful excuse for journalism (masquerading as freshman ideological naivety) uphold the tenuous contradiction of Apple's "quality" without ignoring the fact that the Chinese play by Chinese rules (i.e. not playing by the rules unless they're in the good book) not American ones? In fact aren't Chinese rules specifically not the same as American ones?
I've always wondered why Macs are so expensive and now I know why!
Now you know why Apple is a great company. They "outed" this information on non-compliance on their own!
Yes, and that's the same reason they were rated in Canada's Top 100 Employers in 2009.
http://www.eluta.ca/top-employer-rim
Precisely! The first bullet-point epotmises the abuse they're putting their people through!
Precisely! The first bullet-point epotmises the abuse they're putting their people through!
what the hell are you smoking?
The top 4 Bullet points for RIM employee satisfaction are
1. gives employees a free BlackBerry on their first day and covers usage and service fees
2. offers tuition subsidies to employees and is only a short walk to the University of Waterloo and Wilfrid Laurier University
3. helps employees plan for retirement with matching RSP contributions
lets all employees share in the company's success by offering a profit-sharing plan and year-end bonuses
4. provides onsite massage services, flu shot clinics and discounted gym memberships to help employees stay healthy
Edit.
Description of Physical Workspace.
RIM's physical workplace is rated as very good. The company's Waterloo head office location includes 14 buildings that are home to the company's primary research, manufacturing and administrative offices.
Did anyone actually bother to read the original article? http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...d=aEoy5uOTmvq8
It is a 55+ para article in which one para refers to Apple. Mentioned are also Nike, Wal-mart, Dell, HP...... but none of them merits a headline.
And, if you read it, you'll see that the Chinese officials themselves (somewhat) lament the fact that their country is backward on some of these issues, and acknowledge that things have to get better. The article also talks a lot about the complexities involved in making these changes happen.
Guys, it is a far more nuanced issue than a lot of shallow back-and-forth being witnessed here. If the issue really bothers you enough to want to comment, at least, read the article before commenting.
Shame on you, Apple. They treat their U.S. employees very well, and they should make sure their partners do the same. Their contracts make for a mighty threat.
Apple discovered these abuses on their own. Why point fingers when THEY already did the groundwork? If they had simply kept their 'mouths shut' no one would be the wiser.
It is a 55+ para article in which one para refers to Apple. Mentioned are also Nike, Wal-mart, Dell, HP...... but none of them merits a headline.
The media giveth, and the media taketh away. Griping that Apple was singled out in the headline doesn't make them less culpable.
And, if you read it, you'll see that the Chinese officials themselves (somewhat) lament the fact that their country is backward on some of these issues, and acknowledge that things have to get better.
"Lamenting"?
The article also talks a lot about the complexities involved in making these changes happen.
You could simply choose not to have your product produced in a authoritarian country. How complex is that?
If the issue really bothers you enough to want to comment, at least, read the article before commenting.
So much knee-jerkism in the comments!
Did anyone actually bother to read the original article? http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...d=aEoy5uOTmvq8
It is a 55+ para article in which one para refers to Apple. Mentioned are also Nike, Wal-mart, Dell, HP...... but none of them merits a headline.
And, if you read it, you'll see that the Chinese officials themselves (somewhat) lament the fact that their country is backward on some of these issues, and acknowledge that things have to get better. The article also talks a lot about the complexities involved in making these changes happen.
Guys, it is a far more nuanced issue than a lot of shallow back-and-forth being witnessed here. If the issue really bothers you enough to want to comment, at least, read the article before commenting.
Or at the very least, read Apple's own document on their ongoing supplier compliance issues. Heavens to Murgatroyd.
Or at the very least, read Apple's own document on their ongoing supplier compliance issues. Heavens to Murgatroyd.
If Apple complied with their own "compliance issues" then the Bloomberg article never would have been written and if it was it would not have included Apple's name in the report.
Apple does not have a good track history when it comes to Outsource Employee Satisfaction. That is putting it as politely as I can.
Yes, many other companies have the same manufacturing process but it doesn't excuse any one of them from what is conveyed in the article.
What do you mean by this..."Nobody else outsources manufacturing to China."?
I'm sure it is sarcasm. Maybe he should have used a
... that when pure labor cost by comparison reaches 60% of labor cost in the U.S., companies will pull back manufacturing to the States. Poor conditions, like these in China, may even accelerate the return.
So I give it between 5 to 8 years and we will start start seeing labels on Apple boxes saying: "Designed by Apple in California. Assembled in North Carolina."
it is pretty obvious to me that niether the Republicans nor the Democrates really give a damn here. Both tend to cover their special interest industries to the detriment of the rest of us. So if we really want to impact the China problem we have to stop buying stuff built in these factories. Nobody else is going to do it for you.
The problem I see though is this is like calling out China while turning a blind eye to what is happening at home. One example is GM which for the life of me still exists as a company, in this case a company that grossly overpays it's workers thus leading to crap automobiles. Then you have your local hospital which for the most part gave staff so overworked the are a danger to the patients. The IT industry in general isn't known for paying overtime either, yet most of these workers have little control over their day to day work schedule.
I'm not trying to justify bad treatment of employees but people have to realize that by buying this stuff you are enabling the practices. Oh and by they way by not doing business with China the workers would be a lot worst off. Yeah the conditions aren't great but it is better than eating bugs to survive.
Dave
The media giveth, and the media taketh away. Griping that Apple was singled out in the headline doesn't make them less culpable.
No one was griping. Get a grip(e). And, 'culpable' of what?
"Lamenting"?
Not only did some lamebrains not read the original article, they did not bother to read my post either. They missed the qualification to 'lamenting.'
You could simply choose not to have your product produced in a authoritarian country. How complex is that?
And you could simply choose not to buy a product produced in a (sic) authoritarian country. But, of course, that would militate against the hypocrisy.
it is pretty obvious to me that niether the Republicans nor the Democrates really give a damn here. Both tend to cover their special interest industries to the detriment of the rest of us. So if we really want to impact the China problem we have to stop buying stuff built in these factories. Nobody else is going to do it for you.
The problem I see though is this is like calling out China while turning a blind eye to what is happening at home. One example is GM which for the life of me still exists as a company, in this case a company that grossly overpays it's workers thus leading to crap automobiles. Then you have your local hospital which for the most part gave staff so overworked the are a danger to the patients. The IT industry in general isn't known for paying overtime either, yet most of these workers have little control over their day to day work schedule.
I'm not trying to justify bad treatment of employees but people have to realize that by buying this stuff you are enabling the practices. Oh and by they way by not doing business with China the workers would be a lot worst off. Yeah the conditions aren't great but it is better than eating bugs to survive.
Dave
Spot on.
To 'Democrats' and 'Republicans,' you could have added, a bunch of AI posters who might be neither.
People are always so quick to judge others when they themselves are part of what they are judging.
Shame on you, Apple. They treat their U.S. employees very well, and they should make sure their partners do the same. Their contracts make for a mighty threat.
WTF do you think that Apple's 2009 responsibility progress report is trying to do!
The report was done by Apple for Apple so that they can address these things!!! Does anyone ever understand what they read around here anymore?
Will Apple shower $$ on all those workers? No. But they have demonstrated a stake in trying to ensure there are as few abuses as possible and not just do head in the sand ignoring of the issue like the rest of corporate America does.
Is anything actually Made in the USA anymore?
You think products made in the USA are better? Have you looked at GM lately?
Sounds just like most offices in corporate America to me.
You nailed it spot-on! The article describes almost every company in the United States.