Unions were formed when Big Business took unfair advantage of labor; but labor shot itself in the foot when the whims of the union bosses took priority over the companies' need to stay profitable. The solution? Off shore! Perhaps Apple should start a little experiment: Manufacture the simplest products here in the USA by creating an Apple subsidiary, based on a profit-sharing model. It's been proven time and time again that workers who get a cut in the action produce better products; and bringing jobs back (the other Jobs is already back) is the quickest way to help the US economy
Actually, I just spent $900 on new Goodyear tires (made in USA) for my Jeep (made in USA). Apple products are the only ones I buy that are NOT made in the USA or EU. I routinely put products back on the shelf if they are made in China. Why any American would spend their money to support a Communist regime is beyond me. I figure with Apple at least the software is made in the US.
You nailed it spot-on! The article describes almost every company in the United States.
? yes, and Apple is the company that should think differently.
This is really bad news. Is this the value we are paying for? Okay, Apple has by far the best user experience, but we are also supporting a company that is exploiting people. It is something we should be ashamed of.
Apple needs to educate its customers. Cheap products come at a price. If we don't want to pay, nature and other - less fortunate - people will.
Would this be the same Goodyear that conveniently ignored the fact that they imported faulty valve stems from China and then hid that fact from their customers for over 8 months?
I bought a set of their top-of-the-line Fortera tires in Feb 2007 and yeah, I get the $900 price tag. That's about what I paid. Over the course of the next 8 months I had a flat on three of the tires, all caused by the valve stems. Of course I wasn't told this at the time. It wasn't until I had a blowout at speed that the stem came up at all. Man, I haven't had a brown spot that big since combat!
But the real twist in my knickers came when the manager of the local Goodyear store tried to convince me that the failures of the valve stem where all due to my use of a car wash! Yep, you read that right. A friggin' car wash was the root of all my problems. Go figure. The a-hole even made me buy a brand new tire with a 20% premium to boot, because I wasn't buying a full new set.
What was I going to do? I was traveling on vacation and sure as hell wasn't in a position to drive anywhere to barter.
A few months later I was planning my annual pilgrimage for Thanksgiving and I would be driving. I went to a brand new Discount Tire Center fully expecting to pay to have four new valve stems installed on my tires. I just had a nagging feeling that something bad would happen during that 600 mile one-way drive. Instead of what I expected, two things happened:
1. I wasn't charged a penny for the stems or the labor.
2. The Chinese manufacturer and the US importer had both issued recall notices due to the high failure rate of these particular valve stems (Topseal, manufactured for Dill).
The final upshot? On the three flats and even the new tire that replaced the blowout, Goodyear installed new valve stems from the same lot numbers and the same manufacturer that issued the recall. They had four individual opportunities to set this right, and they failed miserably. Plus the BS I got from the Goodyear manager, all so his store could make another $300 on a guy from out of town.
So, when you think that you are buying "Made in USA" when you buy from Goodyear - think again!
You want to see corporate greed and avarice in action? Check out Goodyears web site and search for any mention of the Dill Valve Stem Recall, even though Dill was their primary stem provider at that time. Then go to Discount Tires web site. The recall notice is right there, on the home page, in a bright red box.
Shame on Goodyear for choosing to systematically ignore a viable safety hazard in their endless chase for more profit. And shame on me for still believing that corporate American gives a ship about their customers.
There is nothing with the factories in China in general. Sooner or later, the people in China will be earning US$90,000 per year. We have to understand that every country needs some time to develop. China is on the right right track as their economy is growing rapidly.
As the $US depreciates rapidly over the next decade, Chinese or any foreign made products will be way more expensive.
Why is this even news? You think Apple isn't aware of the issue earlier when they decided to have manufacturing in China? Who does billion of business with China and doesn't know about their working conditions? Figure it out people, cheap labor comes from somewhere at someone else's expense, always does!
This sort of report is inevitable and always happens as soon as a company gets to a certain level of success. It doesn't matter if the working conditions in 1000s of other Chinese factories making virtually every kind of doodad for the West are much worse, it just makes for a a pretty silly headline: "Working Conditions in Chinese Toilet Brush Factory Unbearable". You never hear about the countless millions of other Chinese laborers being exploited... unless it's Nike or Apple after they've attained a high level of success.
So this headline has nothing to do with the supposed fact that Apple itself is forcing poor working conditions, but rather is simply a knee-jerk selling mechanism of the American media industry.
The top 4 Bullet points for RIM employee satisfaction are
1. gives employees a free BlackBerry on their first day and covers usage and service fees
2. offers tuition subsidies to employees and is only a short walk to the University of Waterloo and Wilfrid Laurier University
3. helps employees plan for retirement with matching RSP contributions
lets all employees share in the company's success by offering a profit-sharing plan and year-end bonuses
4. provides onsite massage services, flu shot clinics and discounted gym memberships to help employees stay healthy
Edit.
Description of Physical Workspace.
RIM's physical workplace is rated as very good. The company's Waterloo head office location includes 14 buildings that are home to the company's primary research, manufacturing and administrative offices.
Free trade is not free. First, it has a high cost on both Chinese workers who work under deplorable conditions without a voice, and American workers who are expected to compete with what amounts to slave labor. Second, it puts our National security at risk because we ship the means and know how to manufacture all of these goods to China. Further, the US doesn't monitor the production of goods anymore. That is why we see poisoned toys and food. In many case, America doesn't even possess the means to manufacture high tech goods any more. Third, it hurts our economy because instead of keeping money in the US, it ships it over to a communist government who 1) doesn't like the US, and 2) uses the money to thwart our own interests. Fourth, the Chinese have said their economy is booming because of all the jobs we have sent there. Consequently, they have refused to participate in global initiatives to combat climate change. Fifth, Americans have to make up the loss of import taxes that previously were collected on imports. The list goes on. Our government truly sold us out here.
Free trade should only be done between countries that embrace the same values as our own country. We can't compete with workers who have no voice and work in deplorable conditions. Nor should we be placed in a situation that requires us to do so. Patriotism is about supporting your fellow Americans, not singing songs.
That communist regime is saving our bacon by buying US debt. If they were not you would be looking at interest rates going through the roof. That's our global reality. \
Indeed.
People seem to forget that the United States owes nearly $3 trillion to this "communist regime" (that in many ways is starting to look and function like a capitalist one.)
There is nothing with the factories in China in general. Sooner or later, the people in China will be earning US$90,000 per year. We have to understand that every country needs some time to develop. China is on the right right track as their economy is growing rapidly.
You don't understand. This is about ignoring basic human rights. Growth shouldn't come at people's & nature's cost!
Of course China has got to learn, but western companies should not take advantage of that by exploiting their human capital!
This is what happens when you outsource your jobs to a communist country that still employs slave labor.
Is anything actually Made in the USA anymore?
Weapons, raw materials, grain, passenger aircraft, machinery, among others. Check out the CIA World Fact Book some time. It's online. The reason why it looks like everything we use is made in China is because they make the consumer goods for the world now.
Quote:
Originally Posted by halhiker
Actually, I just spent $900 on new Goodyear tires (made in USA) for my Jeep (made in USA). Apple products are the only ones I buy that are NOT made in the USA or EU. I routinely put products back on the shelf if they are made in China. Why any American would spend their money to support a Communist regime is beyond me. I figure with Apple at least the software is made in the US.
Some Mac Pros are made in the US. At least mine happened to be, that might have changed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich
"Greed" is a naive valuation for self-interest, which is a permanent part of human nature.
I call that a bit of a conflation. Self interest is expected. Greed is the extreme of that axis, where it becomes sociopathic for all intents and shouldn't be ignored or praised.
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram
It is a 55+ para article in which one para refers to Apple. Mentioned are also Nike, Wal-mart, Dell, HP...... but none of them merits a headline.
True, this isn't HPInsider or DellInsider.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610
Indeed.
People seem to forget that the United States owes nearly $3 trillion to this "communist regime" (that in many ways is starting to look and function like a capitalist one.)
I suppose it's fine as long as you have some good skills, work ethic, don't mind the "great firewall", don't say anything bad about the government, or mention a particular Tienanmen Square incident. The US has its problems too, the same with every other country, but pretending that China doesn't have a very politically oppressive regime doesn't really help.
Apple discovered these abuses on their own. Why point fingers when THEY already did the groundwork? If they had simply kept their 'mouths shut' no one would be the wiser.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hiro
WTF do you think that Apple's 2009 responsibility progress report is trying to do!
The report was done by Apple for Apple so that they can address these things!!! Does anyone ever understand what they read around here anymore?
Will Apple shower $$ on all those workers? No. But they have demonstrated a stake in trying to ensure there are as few abuses as possible and not just do head in the sand ignoring of the issue like the rest of corporate America does.
Good. They are doing the right thing. I never implied they were willfully neglectful. My point is proven.
Good. They are doing the right thing. I never implied they were willfully neglectful. My point is proven.
Your points are moot.
Maybe you would win some respect if you didn't didn't try to dismiss someone else's comment in such an off-hand way. Especially when their points weren't moot, you just wanted to spin it the way you did so you don't look bad.
Apple discovered these abuses on their own. Why point fingers when THEY already did the groundwork? If they had simply kept their 'mouths shut' no one would be the wiser.
So much for having a high environmentally friendly rating.
It still holds.
Plus, this is based on Apple's OWN audit. They are policing THEMSELVES. They could have simply kept quiet about it. If anything, this entire issue is Apple-positive news.
WTF do you think that Apple's 2009 responsibility progress report is trying to do!
The report was done by Apple for Apple so that they can address these things!!! Does anyone ever understand what they read around here anymore?
Will Apple shower $$ on all those workers? No. But they have demonstrated a stake in trying to ensure there are as few abuses as possible and not just do head in the sand ignoring of the issue like the rest of corporate America does.
Comments
Actually, I just spent $900 on new Goodyear tires (made in USA) for my Jeep (made in USA). Apple products are the only ones I buy that are NOT made in the USA or EU. I routinely put products back on the shelf if they are made in China. Why any American would spend their money to support a Communist regime is beyond me. I figure with Apple at least the software is made in the US.
Ever thought of where the rubber comes from?
You nailed it spot-on! The article describes almost every company in the United States.
? yes, and Apple is the company that should think differently.
This is really bad news. Is this the value we are paying for? Okay, Apple has by far the best user experience, but we are also supporting a company that is exploiting people. It is something we should be ashamed of.
Apple needs to educate its customers. Cheap products come at a price. If we don't want to pay, nature and other - less fortunate - people will.
Again, shame on us!
Ever thought of where the rubber comes from?
Would this be the same Goodyear that conveniently ignored the fact that they imported faulty valve stems from China and then hid that fact from their customers for over 8 months?
I bought a set of their top-of-the-line Fortera tires in Feb 2007 and yeah, I get the $900 price tag. That's about what I paid. Over the course of the next 8 months I had a flat on three of the tires, all caused by the valve stems. Of course I wasn't told this at the time. It wasn't until I had a blowout at speed that the stem came up at all. Man, I haven't had a brown spot that big since combat!
But the real twist in my knickers came when the manager of the local Goodyear store tried to convince me that the failures of the valve stem where all due to my use of a car wash! Yep, you read that right. A friggin' car wash was the root of all my problems. Go figure. The a-hole even made me buy a brand new tire with a 20% premium to boot, because I wasn't buying a full new set.
What was I going to do? I was traveling on vacation and sure as hell wasn't in a position to drive anywhere to barter.
A few months later I was planning my annual pilgrimage for Thanksgiving and I would be driving. I went to a brand new Discount Tire Center fully expecting to pay to have four new valve stems installed on my tires. I just had a nagging feeling that something bad would happen during that 600 mile one-way drive. Instead of what I expected, two things happened:
1. I wasn't charged a penny for the stems or the labor.
2. The Chinese manufacturer and the US importer had both issued recall notices due to the high failure rate of these particular valve stems (Topseal, manufactured for Dill).
The final upshot? On the three flats and even the new tire that replaced the blowout, Goodyear installed new valve stems from the same lot numbers and the same manufacturer that issued the recall. They had four individual opportunities to set this right, and they failed miserably. Plus the BS I got from the Goodyear manager, all so his store could make another $300 on a guy from out of town.
So, when you think that you are buying "Made in USA" when you buy from Goodyear - think again!
You want to see corporate greed and avarice in action? Check out Goodyears web site and search for any mention of the Dill Valve Stem Recall, even though Dill was their primary stem provider at that time. Then go to Discount Tires web site. The recall notice is right there, on the home page, in a bright red box.
Shame on Goodyear for choosing to systematically ignore a viable safety hazard in their endless chase for more profit. And shame on me for still believing that corporate American gives a ship about their customers.
As the $US depreciates rapidly over the next decade, Chinese or any foreign made products will be way more expensive.
This is what happens when you outsource your jobs to a communist country that still employs slave labor.
Is anything actually Made in the USA anymore?
Honda accords and Toyota trucks
So this headline has nothing to do with the supposed fact that Apple itself is forcing poor working conditions, but rather is simply a knee-jerk selling mechanism of the American media industry.
what the hell are you smoking?
The top 4 Bullet points for RIM employee satisfaction are
1. gives employees a free BlackBerry on their first day and covers usage and service fees
2. offers tuition subsidies to employees and is only a short walk to the University of Waterloo and Wilfrid Laurier University
3. helps employees plan for retirement with matching RSP contributions
lets all employees share in the company's success by offering a profit-sharing plan and year-end bonuses
4. provides onsite massage services, flu shot clinics and discounted gym memberships to help employees stay healthy
Edit.
Description of Physical Workspace.
RIM's physical workplace is rated as very good. The company's Waterloo head office location includes 14 buildings that are home to the company's primary research, manufacturing and administrative offices.
Again - point 1. Open those eyes! Sheer torture!
Free trade should only be done between countries that embrace the same values as our own country. We can't compete with workers who have no voice and work in deplorable conditions. Nor should we be placed in a situation that requires us to do so. Patriotism is about supporting your fellow Americans, not singing songs.
That communist regime is saving our bacon by buying US debt. If they were not you would be looking at interest rates going through the roof. That's our global reality.
Indeed.
People seem to forget that the United States owes nearly $3 trillion to this "communist regime" (that in many ways is starting to look and function like a capitalist one.)
There is nothing with the factories in China in general. Sooner or later, the people in China will be earning US$90,000 per year. We have to understand that every country needs some time to develop. China is on the right right track as their economy is growing rapidly.
You don't understand. This is about ignoring basic human rights. Growth shouldn't come at people's & nature's cost!
Of course China has got to learn, but western companies should not take advantage of that by exploiting their human capital!
This is what happens when you outsource your jobs to a communist country that still employs slave labor.
Is anything actually Made in the USA anymore?
Weapons, raw materials, grain, passenger aircraft, machinery, among others. Check out the CIA World Fact Book some time. It's online. The reason why it looks like everything we use is made in China is because they make the consumer goods for the world now.
Actually, I just spent $900 on new Goodyear tires (made in USA) for my Jeep (made in USA). Apple products are the only ones I buy that are NOT made in the USA or EU. I routinely put products back on the shelf if they are made in China. Why any American would spend their money to support a Communist regime is beyond me. I figure with Apple at least the software is made in the US.
Some Mac Pros are made in the US. At least mine happened to be, that might have changed.
"Greed" is a naive valuation for self-interest, which is a permanent part of human nature.
I call that a bit of a conflation. Self interest is expected. Greed is the extreme of that axis, where it becomes sociopathic for all intents and shouldn't be ignored or praised.
It is a 55+ para article in which one para refers to Apple. Mentioned are also Nike, Wal-mart, Dell, HP...... but none of them merits a headline.
True, this isn't HPInsider or DellInsider.
Indeed.
People seem to forget that the United States owes nearly $3 trillion to this "communist regime" (that in many ways is starting to look and function like a capitalist one.)
I suppose it's fine as long as you have some good skills, work ethic, don't mind the "great firewall", don't say anything bad about the government, or mention a particular Tienanmen Square incident. The US has its problems too, the same with every other country, but pretending that China doesn't have a very politically oppressive regime doesn't really help.
Apple discovered these abuses on their own. Why point fingers when THEY already did the groundwork? If they had simply kept their 'mouths shut' no one would be the wiser.
WTF do you think that Apple's 2009 responsibility progress report is trying to do!
The report was done by Apple for Apple so that they can address these things!!! Does anyone ever understand what they read around here anymore?
Will Apple shower $$ on all those workers? No. But they have demonstrated a stake in trying to ensure there are as few abuses as possible and not just do head in the sand ignoring of the issue like the rest of corporate America does.
Good. They are doing the right thing. I never implied they were willfully neglectful. My point is proven.
Your points are moot.
Well 2 options here for Apple.
1. Sort out the conditions.
2. Price cut across their product range to reflect the discounts they are getting by paying these factories peanuts.
I would go for option 2
Which says it all. If consumers don't give a shit about the conditions of the people who build their products, how can we expect the companies to?
Additionally, this is exactly why so many jobs are vanishing from the US, because all consumers care about is getting more for less.
Good. They are doing the right thing. I never implied they were willfully neglectful. My point is proven.
Your points are moot.
Maybe you would win some respect if you didn't didn't try to dismiss someone else's comment in such an off-hand way. Especially when their points weren't moot, you just wanted to spin it the way you did so you don't look bad.
Apple discovered these abuses on their own. Why point fingers when THEY already did the groundwork? If they had simply kept their 'mouths shut' no one would be the wiser.
LOL, yes.
It's their OWN audit.
Good point.
So much for having a high environmentally friendly rating.
It still holds.
Plus, this is based on Apple's OWN audit. They are policing THEMSELVES. They could have simply kept quiet about it. If anything, this entire issue is Apple-positive news.
Now go back to enjoying your iPhone.
WTF do you think that Apple's 2009 responsibility progress report is trying to do!
The report was done by Apple for Apple so that they can address these things!!! Does anyone ever understand what they read around here anymore?
Will Apple shower $$ on all those workers? No. But they have demonstrated a stake in trying to ensure there are as few abuses as possible and not just do head in the sand ignoring of the issue like the rest of corporate America does.
I think a lot of us missed this point.