What a liar. Or tool. He really believes he was on the phone with an Apple attorney? And if he counts getting an attorney to pick up the phone as an indicator of effectiveness then he's just as deluded as the customers in his ads. And they don't run the ads as unscripted. They prescreen customers and survey them and choose customers that they know are looking more to buy a Windows PC.
I was speaking with my neighbor (a mother of 2) and she said she bought a mac, and i asked how she liked it and she sounded surprised that it was the same internet, same email, and it did the same things her old computer could do. It was really frightening actually lol.
the magic of lowered expectations. the interwebs is still the same. if you get a chance, explain to her the other stuff her mac can do well, eg ilife, that winders struggle with. when a non-geek asks me about what 'puter to buy, they want an 'appliance' that'll just do what they want. no one wants to become a pc hobbyist, messing around w/ video cards and cooling systems and optimizing drivers and such. it's enough that they figured out how set the clock on the vcr. oh wait, they set automatically now that everyone has dvd's.
What really bugs me about the commercials that Microsoft is airing is, why are they advertising HARDWARE, microsoft doesn't create HARDWARE that their operating system runs on. They're advertising a product that isn't even theirs. Ok, they're operating system runs on the laptop, but they're not advertsing the software, they're advertising hardware,... WHICH ISN'T THEIRS.
Why do you say they were forced off the air. I saw the "Giampaolo" ad twice last night.
That's the one that offends me the most. He says with his smirky, mishapen mouth some garbage like, "Macs to me are more about aesthetics than computing power."
First, it that really your thought, G, or is the the script written by your employers at Microsoft? Second, why does your opinion count? It is ill-informed and obviously biased by your taskmasters.
Hey, Apple, point a camera at me and I'll say, "PC's to me crash a lot, are constantly being infected and are exceptionally difficult to configure, are larded with tons of useless trial software, and the Microsoft apps for photos, music and movies are sick jokes."
Well apple has some nerve if this is true . They lie in their Im a mac and Im a pc ads also.
That is why i dont think this is true. Why would apple call up Microsoft and ask for the ads to be taken down when they know that they lie in their ads also.
Leonard: They are advertising hardware because Apples ads advertise as Microsoft selling the hardware. If this wasnt the case then the ads wouldnt be targeted just to Microsoft. Just the fact they bash microsoft but call him a pc is doing that. Linux, and other free operating systems run on PC's and I dont see apple bashing them. So microsoft is just playing the same game that apple is.
PC's to me crash a lot, are constantly being infected and are exceptionally difficult to configure, are larded with tons of useless trial software, and the Microsoft apps for photos, music and movies are sick jokes.
Can you name a specific statement that's now inaccurate that wasn't before? The only one I can think of that might be inaccurate is the one of the video editor lady. Otherwise, the price drops weren't enough to change the accuracy of the statements in other ads that I remember.
The video lady complains about the 2 gb memory on the MBP - that one is still airing. Very misleading.
yeh, like a good friend who bought a lap that had everything, even a BD-player. Could he use it? No way, no software came with the machine and the maker/seller freed themselves of all responsibilitie. THAT's the pc-way - oh, all bells & whistles to attract customers but no guarantee it will be working once you've checked out.
What really bugs me about the commercials that Microsoft is airing is, why are they advertising HARDWARE, microsoft doesn't create HARDWARE that their operating system runs on. They're advertising a product that isn't even theirs. Ok, they're operating system runs on the laptop, but they're not advertsing the software, they're advertising hardware,... WHICH ISN'T THEIRS.
Good point. What makes it even weirder is, their bread-and-butter software -- Windows, Office -- runs on Macs too!
though on the surface it seems like petty whining and certainly Microsoft will paint it that way, Apple is in the right on one issue and perhaps in the right on another.
1. the prices are incorrect. Microsoft should pull the ones with the wrong prices and replace them with new ones with the correct price. they might even just be able to redub the audio so the correct price is spoken
2. whether, even without going inside, Microsoft can show the outside of an Apple store in the ads without permission from Apple or show Apple products without permission (which you can bet they didn't give). I don't know the rules on that one but you can bet Apple will look into it and add it to any claims over the false price issue.
course even with those changes, Microsoft is still hedging the facts in their favor and a lot of computer users won't be fooled, or at least not fooled for long. but hey, they got their money for now so what's the worry.
though on the surface it seems like petty whining and certainly Microsoft will paint it that way, Apple is in the right on one issue and perhaps in the right on another.
1. the prices are incorrect. Microsoft should pull the ones with the wrong prices and replace them with new ones with the correct price. they might even just be able to redub the audio so the correct price is spoken
2. whether, even without going inside, Microsoft can show the outside of an Apple store in the ads without permission from Apple or show Apple products without permission (which you can bet they didn't give). I don't know the rules on that one but you can bet Apple will look into it and add it to any claims over the false price issue.
course even with those changes, Microsoft is still hedging the facts in their favor and a lot of computer users won't be fooled, or at least not fooled for long. but hey, they got their money for now so what's the worry.
Quote:
Originally Posted by holywarrior007
Well this is strange for two reasons; 1. Apple is crying about it when they themselves have been having these PC vs Mac ads for some time and the MS didn't complain, 2. Are these ads really working?
MS didn't complain because they knew there was a vein of truth to the Apple ads, the vein being that Apple was picking on the chief complaints about Windows by the consumers. On the other hands, Microsoft is airing ads giving out known to be bad info. It gets into slander/libel issues if they don't pull or change the ads. and Apple has stepped up to say they will do something about it. just like they will do something about Psystar, about companies like Palm using itunes hacks with their phones etc. Microsoft is lashing back by painting Apple Legal to be a bunch of crybabies.
First, I kind of think your wife bought the PC out of spite. Sounds like she's sick of listening to your rantings about mac vs pc and wanted to get a pc to be rebellious in some manner (lol )
Second, your story about the anti virus messing up the system sounds like horse poo. Sorry, not trying to start a fight here or anything, but if your IT guy had half a brain, updates like that would be controlled by his department, and if the update rendered the PC inoperable, they wouldn't push it out to the network.
Now, that said, if the update did cause an issue like that, being bitter towards the PC because of a third party's screw up is like me saying I hate ford because the supercharger I put on blew the engine up...
The wife's move i think was more about ignorance than spite.
The anti virus software update was a corporate controlled aplucation and update and affected at least 200 out of 1200 computers on my company. I did not say I was made at Microsoft bur who should I be upset with Microsoft for the OS full of security problems or Ibm or Hp for selling systems affected or maybe intel or nvidia for the chipsets affected? Sunbelt for puttong out out a flawed update? Or maybe the folks who write malware?
If I bug a car from ford with a factory installed supercharger and it blows The engine should I get mad at ford? Or the contractor who built the engine or the engineer who desigend the supercharger?
My main point is that regardless of who is responsible no matter how careful you are running windows will alwsys have certain challenged that running mac os simply avoids
The phone call probably happened, but it has probably been misrepresented a little bit.
That's my feeling as well. There may have been a phone conversation, but the way it's described sounds like hyperbole.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmf2
People are lemmings, and the Laptop Hunters ads are effective for that reason.
Consumers who don't do their homework may be lemmings and susceptible to these misleading and misrepresentative ads. I find the ads annoyingly unrealistic for many reasons. For one thing, the ads set up the Mac vs. PC issue as primarily one of hardware/specs::expense where the real issue is software/user experience::value.
Apple Lawyers don't make social phone calls; they send "cease and desist" letters if they are sure to have a case.
And you KNOW this because you worked in Apple's Legal Department for how long was it again.
i thought so
in point of fact, it is possible that yes the call took place. Apple is in the middle of several lawsuits, avoiding another one would be a very good idea. And if a phone call to say "You are running ads that have false information about our products. this is your chance to avoid the mess of a lawsuit by fixing the problem now." does the job, why not. Doesn't mean they don't think they have a case, just means they want to avoid the long road and first treat this like it was a harmless error. Assume good intent and the issue is simply that Microsoft forgot that the older created ads mention exact prices.
That's precisely what I was thinking. Don't they have anything better to do with their time?
On a lark, I found that this article was linked on the front page of Google News, it was one of the three stories under the tech section. We seem to get a few trolls pop up whenever it's linked from Google News that way.
Why they take five minutes to sign up just to make a single diatribe post is beyond me.
That's my feeling as well. There may have been a phone conversation, but the way it's described sounds like hyperbole.
Probably. Product disparagement via false claims made in advertising is prohibited by federal law, so if Apple had an actual claim of disparagement, it makes sense for it to have been made in a cease and desist letter at least, not in a phone call.
in point of fact, it is possible that yes the call took place. Apple is in the middle of several lawsuits, avoiding another one would be a very good idea. And if a phone call to say "You are running ads that have false information about our products. this is your chance to avoid the mess of a lawsuit by fixing the problem now." does the job, why not. Doesn't mean they don't think they have a case, just means they want to avoid the long road and first treat this like it was a harmless error. Assume good intent and the issue is simply that Microsoft forgot that the older created ads mention exact prices.
Assuming the story is true, it puts Apple in a bad light. No matter how you spin it, it looks like sour grapes. Microsoft knows the law and much advertising stretches the truth. I don't want to see Apple and MS battling each other in court endlessly over advertising. Not good for profits nor the stock.
Personally, I think Microsoft's ads are quite effective at getting the point across that PCs are cheaper. A few of the commercials even threw Apple a bone, one even saying Apple's kit is cool.
As far as the phone call, that plays into the dynamics even more. Why would they print a C&D letter that could be used in MS's next ad? Steve Jobs loves phone calls and when you want to keep stuff quiet, you do the phone call.
So I say lets have the war. Out in the open. Harping on Apple's prices day in and day out is going to pressure Apple to lower prices. And that is a good thing. I love competition.
But there is a point that neither side can cross. I'm not a legal expert, but I don't think MS has crossed that line. If lawsuits arose out of details, our economy would would grind to a halt. Well, except for the lawyers.
Comments
I was speaking with my neighbor (a mother of 2) and she said she bought a mac, and i asked how she liked it and she sounded surprised that it was the same internet, same email, and it did the same things her old computer could do. It was really frightening actually lol.
the magic of lowered expectations. the interwebs is still the same. if you get a chance, explain to her the other stuff her mac can do well, eg ilife, that winders struggle with. when a non-geek asks me about what 'puter to buy, they want an 'appliance' that'll just do what they want. no one wants to become a pc hobbyist, messing around w/ video cards and cooling systems and optimizing drivers and such. it's enough that they figured out how set the clock on the vcr. oh wait, they set automatically now that everyone has dvd's.
Why do you say they were forced off the air. I saw the "Giampaolo" ad twice last night.
That's the one that offends me the most. He says with his smirky, mishapen mouth some garbage like, "Macs to me are more about aesthetics than computing power."
First, it that really your thought, G, or is the the script written by your employers at Microsoft? Second, why does your opinion count? It is ill-informed and obviously biased by your taskmasters.
Hey, Apple, point a camera at me and I'll say, "PC's to me crash a lot, are constantly being infected and are exceptionally difficult to configure, are larded with tons of useless trial software, and the Microsoft apps for photos, music and movies are sick jokes."
Cut! That's a wrap! I'll be in my trailer.
That is why i dont think this is true. Why would apple call up Microsoft and ask for the ads to be taken down when they know that they lie in their ads also.
Leonard: They are advertising hardware because Apples ads advertise as Microsoft selling the hardware. If this wasnt the case then the ads wouldnt be targeted just to Microsoft. Just the fact they bash microsoft but call him a pc is doing that. Linux, and other free operating systems run on PC's and I dont see apple bashing them. So microsoft is just playing the same game that apple is.
PC's to me crash a lot, are constantly being infected and are exceptionally difficult to configure, are larded with tons of useless trial software, and the Microsoft apps for photos, music and movies are sick jokes.
why does your opinion count? It is ill-informed
Can you name a specific statement that's now inaccurate that wasn't before? The only one I can think of that might be inaccurate is the one of the video editor lady. Otherwise, the price drops weren't enough to change the accuracy of the statements in other ads that I remember.
The video lady complains about the 2 gb memory on the MBP - that one is still airing. Very misleading.
How does a troll find this site?
That's precisely what I was thinking. Don't they have anything better to do with their time?
wow, it's first-post-arama out here today!
For trolls, it sure seems like it!
What really bugs me about the commercials that Microsoft is airing is, why are they advertising HARDWARE, microsoft doesn't create HARDWARE that their operating system runs on. They're advertising a product that isn't even theirs. Ok, they're operating system runs on the laptop, but they're not advertsing the software, they're advertising hardware,... WHICH ISN'T THEIRS.
Good point. What makes it even weirder is, their bread-and-butter software -- Windows, Office -- runs on Macs too!
1. the prices are incorrect. Microsoft should pull the ones with the wrong prices and replace them with new ones with the correct price. they might even just be able to redub the audio so the correct price is spoken
2. whether, even without going inside, Microsoft can show the outside of an Apple store in the ads without permission from Apple or show Apple products without permission (which you can bet they didn't give). I don't know the rules on that one but you can bet Apple will look into it and add it to any claims over the false price issue.
course even with those changes, Microsoft is still hedging the facts in their favor and a lot of computer users won't be fooled, or at least not fooled for long. but hey, they got their money for now so what's the worry.
1. the prices are incorrect. Microsoft should pull the ones with the wrong prices and replace them with new ones with the correct price. they might even just be able to redub the audio so the correct price is spoken
2. whether, even without going inside, Microsoft can show the outside of an Apple store in the ads without permission from Apple or show Apple products without permission (which you can bet they didn't give). I don't know the rules on that one but you can bet Apple will look into it and add it to any claims over the false price issue.
course even with those changes, Microsoft is still hedging the facts in their favor and a lot of computer users won't be fooled, or at least not fooled for long. but hey, they got their money for now so what's the worry.
Well this is strange for two reasons; 1. Apple is crying about it when they themselves have been having these PC vs Mac ads for some time and the MS didn't complain, 2. Are these ads really working?
MS didn't complain because they knew there was a vein of truth to the Apple ads, the vein being that Apple was picking on the chief complaints about Windows by the consumers. On the other hands, Microsoft is airing ads giving out known to be bad info. It gets into slander/libel issues if they don't pull or change the ads. and Apple has stepped up to say they will do something about it. just like they will do something about Psystar, about companies like Palm using itunes hacks with their phones etc. Microsoft is lashing back by painting Apple Legal to be a bunch of crybabies.
First, I kind of think your wife bought the PC out of spite. Sounds like she's sick of listening to your rantings about mac vs pc and wanted to get a pc to be rebellious in some manner (lol
Second, your story about the anti virus messing up the system sounds like horse poo. Sorry, not trying to start a fight here or anything, but if your IT guy had half a brain, updates like that would be controlled by his department, and if the update rendered the PC inoperable, they wouldn't push it out to the network.
Now, that said, if the update did cause an issue like that, being bitter towards the PC because of a third party's screw up is like me saying I hate ford because the supercharger I put on blew the engine up...
The wife's move i think was more about ignorance than spite.
The anti virus software update was a corporate controlled aplucation and update and affected at least 200 out of 1200 computers on my company. I did not say I was made at Microsoft bur who should I be upset with Microsoft for the OS full of security problems or Ibm or Hp for selling systems affected or maybe intel or nvidia for the chipsets affected? Sunbelt for puttong out out a flawed update? Or maybe the folks who write malware?
If I bug a car from ford with a factory installed supercharger and it blows The engine should I get mad at ford? Or the contractor who built the engine or the engineer who desigend the supercharger?
My main point is that regardless of who is responsible no matter how careful you are running windows will alwsys have certain challenged that running mac os simply avoids
The phone call probably happened, but it has probably been misrepresented a little bit.
That's my feeling as well. There may have been a phone conversation, but the way it's described sounds like hyperbole.
People are lemmings, and the Laptop Hunters ads are effective for that reason.
Consumers who don't do their homework may be lemmings and susceptible to these misleading and misrepresentative ads. I find the ads annoyingly unrealistic for many reasons. For one thing, the ads set up the Mac vs. PC issue as primarily one of hardware/specs::expense where the real issue is software/user experience::value.
The only place that's proven is in the fantasy land that resides in your head.
Apple Lawyers don't make social phone calls; they send "cease and desist" letters if they are sure to have a case.
And you KNOW this because you worked in Apple's Legal Department for how long was it again.
i thought so
in point of fact, it is possible that yes the call took place. Apple is in the middle of several lawsuits, avoiding another one would be a very good idea. And if a phone call to say "You are running ads that have false information about our products. this is your chance to avoid the mess of a lawsuit by fixing the problem now." does the job, why not. Doesn't mean they don't think they have a case, just means they want to avoid the long road and first treat this like it was a harmless error. Assume good intent and the issue is simply that Microsoft forgot that the older created ads mention exact prices.
if it doesn't work, slam them with the suit.
That's precisely what I was thinking. Don't they have anything better to do with their time?
On a lark, I found that this article was linked on the front page of Google News, it was one of the three stories under the tech section. We seem to get a few trolls pop up whenever it's linked from Google News that way.
Why they take five minutes to sign up just to make a single diatribe post is beyond me.
That's my feeling as well. There may have been a phone conversation, but the way it's described sounds like hyperbole.
Probably. Product disparagement via false claims made in advertising is prohibited by federal law, so if Apple had an actual claim of disparagement, it makes sense for it to have been made in a cease and desist letter at least, not in a phone call.
http://www.rkmc.com/Lanham_Act_Also_...ing_Claims.htm
in point of fact, it is possible that yes the call took place. Apple is in the middle of several lawsuits, avoiding another one would be a very good idea. And if a phone call to say "You are running ads that have false information about our products. this is your chance to avoid the mess of a lawsuit by fixing the problem now." does the job, why not. Doesn't mean they don't think they have a case, just means they want to avoid the long road and first treat this like it was a harmless error. Assume good intent and the issue is simply that Microsoft forgot that the older created ads mention exact prices.
A cease and desist letter is not a lawsuit.
The only place that's proven is in the fantasy land that resides in your head.
someone provided a link you should see (here it is: http://www.itwire.com/content/view/23941/53/ )
Personally, I think Microsoft's ads are quite effective at getting the point across that PCs are cheaper. A few of the commercials even threw Apple a bone, one even saying Apple's kit is cool.
As far as the phone call, that plays into the dynamics even more. Why would they print a C&D letter that could be used in MS's next ad? Steve Jobs loves phone calls and when you want to keep stuff quiet, you do the phone call.
So I say lets have the war. Out in the open. Harping on Apple's prices day in and day out is going to pressure Apple to lower prices. And that is a good thing. I love competition.
But there is a point that neither side can cross. I'm not a legal expert, but I don't think MS has crossed that line. If lawsuits arose out of details, our economy would would grind to a halt. Well, except for the lawyers.