OK, that ad should be dropped or updated. That was a silly claim in the first place anyways as on my MBP, three screws and $50 in memory gets you 4GB. I think Apple should have been doing 4GB standard anyway given the meager cost of the chips, but the bean counter keeping track of upgrade pricing probably had his say.
How about the claim that the price reduction invalidates a price claim made by Microsoft? That's what the story and this thread is about. I was hoping someone could clarify that one. It's possible I haven't seen a particular ad, but I don't remember any add where a $100 price reduction would have changed anything.
What were those lies? You said it twice but didn't bother to mention any specifics.
Like the one that says that windows comes with a bunch of 3rd party crud ware.
Out of the box a windows install doesnt come with any of that stuff. Its dell and hp that ad that stuff their .
Also what about the fact they portray microsoft as the hardware maker in those ads? Technically i can buy a pc with ubuntu on it straight from dell and not get any of that stuff.
So yes Apple does the same things in their ads and has no right to complain .
[RANT] I'll give you the hardware part, but I'm going to have to call you on the software. Can a PC run OS X applications legally ? I would say Final Cut being the big one, the iLife suite that comes free with OS X is pretty awesome. A Mac can dual boot into Windows natively via Boot Camp without VM overhead (actually my Macs have been the best hardware I've had run Windows). A Mac can also run Windows applications even within the Mac desktop using virtualization. Can a PC run *nix applications natively? Since OS X is built on FreeBSD it comes with a full complement of open source applications built in. Before you claim that PCs offer more software choices for computer "professionals", you may actually want to use a Mac first. I would never, ever go back to the PC/Windows monoculture. As a web developer and application programmer for over 12+ years (I guess that qualifies me a "professional"), the first Mac I bought over 4 years ago was the best decision I've ever made. I will put my 2 cents in on the hardware before I end this rant. I've owned an Acer (the WORST computer of all time), a couple Dells, Toshiba, HP, several beige boxes (some built by me), and a several rack mounted servers (some built by me). None of those PCs ever compared to the MacBook Pro or Mac Pro I now own in my opinion. YMMV. I'm going to sell my 4 yo MBP for about 65% of what I paid for it with added upgrades (can you do that with a 4 yo PC?) to buy a new 17" MBP--and to me it is worth every penny. [/RANT]
Apple Lawyers don't make social phone calls; they send "cease and desist" letters if they are sure to have a case.
This story is simply too stupid to believe; as if a company lawyer would phone a COO of one the biggest competitors with a non-traceable request. Lawyers do everything on paper, by fax and by registered mail.
yep. gonna have to agree with this. sounds too uncharacteristic of Apple to be true. Not their style at all.
Like the one that says that windows comes with a bunch of 3rd party crud ware.
Out of the box a windows install doesnt come with any of that stuff. Its dell and hp that ad that stuff their .
I don't think you will find a single ad from Apple that says Windows comes with "a bunch of 3rd party crud ware". They are saying PCs come with other extra stuff.....and they do.
I don't think you will find a single ad from Apple that says Windows comes with "a bunch of 3rd party crud ware". They are saying PCs come with other extra stuff.....and they do.
Technically PC's don't even come with Windows dude. Dell computers and HP computers come with that stuff. Are Apple ads not an attack against Microsoft?
It was a vailid counterpoint, because that link doesn't prove the claim that Macs have the same number of vulnerabilities. That was from one vulnerability. Read what that reply was to:
elroth didn't properly quote it, so I don't know who to attribute that to.
I mean no offense, but here's a link showing that OSX is full of Vulnerabilites, page 44, i found other studies, but they had a feeling of being biased towards M$, and as i said, i don't quite think IBM is going to do campaing in favor of M$
can't speak about all of them but Lauren was outted as an actress, the rest likely were also.
and here's a fun bit. Microsoft claims they weren't paid. they got the computer and NOTHING else, the only way to get away with that (no filming day salary, no residuals etc) is to film non union. so one of, if not the, largest software company in the country is filming major ad campaigns non-union. Walmart was slammed for this for years. Wonder what the unions would do to Microsoft.
Yeah, especially when the actor is a member of the Screen Actors Guild, which has very strict guidelines about minimum compensation for its members. Pretty unlikely they risked not paying her, unless they considered the computer money as her compensation for contractual purposes.
And re: MS advertising other companies' hardware rather than their own software, it's interesting to do a comparison in price between the software instead, since a pro version of Windows costs way more than OSX, and the Snow Leopard upgrade is going to cost $29. Anybody want to bet that MS will only charge $29 to upgrade to Windows 7?
Everyday Joes buy PCs because they are familiar, offer more choice, and are a bit cheaper. Professionals buy PCs because they offer vastly more choice in hardware and software, and have an OS that doesn't treat you like an idiot and is highly productive (XP anyway, MS blew it with Vista by trying to emulate OSX). Virus problems, etc. are vastly overstated and other than being cool and part of the club, are the only talking point apple fans have to justify less choice, a clunky OS, and higher prices.
Impressive. For a first post, you troll like a pro.
Technically PC's don't even come with Windows dude. Dell computers and HP computers come with that stuff. Are Apple ads not an attack against Microsoft?
PCs don't come with Windows? Dells and HPs are not PCs?
I never said that Apple ads are not an attack against Microsoft. But majortom1981 claimed that there was an Apple ad that said that Windows comes with "a bunch of 3rd party crud ware". That was the point I was correcting.
Also, to be totally honest, I haven't bought a PC in years but have all other PC manufacturers gone out of business? Everyone always talks about HP and Dell. What about Acer, Gateway, Toshiba, Lenovo, Sony....? When you buy/configure one of these with Windows, do they not come with the "extra stuff"? (honest question)
What proof does Mr. Turner put forward in this article? What the name of the person on Apples legal team is he quoting. By the way? I just got a call from Microsoft Marketing department and they told me Steve Ballmer flue to Memphis to get a lobotomy.
They gave you incorrect information.
I got word from Microsoft's Board of Directors that Ballmer actually drove to Vancouver so he could have a sex change operation and become Bill Gates' lover.
And re: MS advertising other companies' hardware rather than their own software, it's interesting to do a comparison in price between the software instead, since a pro version of Windows costs way more than OSX, and the Snow Leopard upgrade is going to cost $29. Anybody want to bet that MS will only charge $29 to upgrade to Windows 7?
You really want a comparison? Figure the cost of Windows Ultimate Server with unlimited clients compared to Mac OS X Server with unlimited clients (still $999 IIRC).
Or, figure the cost of upgrading 1,000 computers from Vista to Win 7 (if you can find 1000 computers running Vista) compared to 1,000 Macs from Leopard to Snow Leopard. That eliminates the 'you can preorder 25 computers at a lower price' issue.
You really want a comparison? Figure the cost of Windows Ultimate Server with unlimited clients compared to Mac OS X Server with unlimited clients (still $999 IIRC).
Or, figure the cost of upgrading 1,000 computers from Vista to Win 7 (if you can find 1000 computers running Vista) compared to 1,000 Macs from Leopard to Snow Leopard. That eliminates the 'you can preorder 25 computers at a lower price' issue.
Snow Leopard looks to me more as a service pack... you're being charged for!
....Grand Central.... hm... Microsoft called it NT Executive approx 3 years ago... not so cool name though
Everyday Joes buy PCs because they are familiar, offer more choice, and are a bit cheaper. Professionals buy PCs because they offer vastly more choice in hardware and software, and have an OS that doesn't treat you like an idiot and is highly productive (XP anyway, MS blew it with Vista by trying to emulate OSX). Virus problems, etc. are vastly overstated and other than being cool and part of the club, are the only talking point apple fans have to justify less choice, a clunky OS, and higher prices.
Really, overstated, huh, I've recorded over 4,500 computer repairs as a service technician and I can tell you, at least 1/3 of those repair tickets were virus removal, and other related corrupt OS issues.
Snow Leopard looks to me more as a service pack... you're being charged for!
....Grand Central.... hm... Microsoft called it NT Executive approx 3 years ago... not so cool name though
Really, a service pack that removes the majority of the legacy code, takes the installed size on the Hard disk from 8 GB to somewhere around 1.5 GB, is fully 64-Bit, and adds over 150 features? Windows 7 is closer to being called Vista SP 3.
OK, that ad should be dropped or updated. That was a silly claim in the first place anyways as on my MBP, three screws and $50 in memory gets you 4GB. I think Apple should have been doing 4GB standard anyway given the meager cost of the chips, but the bean counter keeping track of upgrade pricing probably had his say.
How about the claim that the price reduction invalidates a price claim made by Microsoft? That's what the story and this thread is about. I was hoping someone could clarify that one. It's possible I haven't seen a particular ad, but I don't remember any add where a $100 price reduction would have changed anything.
What were those lies? You said it twice but didn't bother to mention any specifics.
Actually the entry-level MacBook Pro still only comes with 2GB.
And re: MS advertising other companies' hardware rather than their own software, it's interesting to do a comparison in price between the software instead, since a pro version of Windows costs way more than OSX, and the Snow Leopard upgrade is going to cost $29. Anybody want to bet that MS will only charge $29 to upgrade to Windows 7?
MS SHOULD be paying it's users to take Vista back.
PCs don't come with Windows? Dells and HPs are not PCs?
I never said that Apple ads are not an attack against Microsoft. But majortom1981 claimed that there was an Apple ad that said that Windows comes with "a bunch of 3rd party crud ware". That was the point I was correcting.
Also, to be totally honest, I haven't bought a PC in years but have all other PC manufacturers gone out of business? Everyone always talks about HP and Dell. What about Acer, Gateway, Toshiba, Lenovo, Sony....? When you buy/configure one of these with Windows, do they not come with the "extra stuff"? (honest question)
A built PC doesn't come with Windows. The user needs to install it. Manufacturers like HP and Dell preload Windows before selling the machine. Common sense I know, but my point was if their ads are against PCs, why always talk about Windows? (I had misinterpreted your point to begin with so i went off on an idea without needing to lol.)
To be honest, I don't remember a commercial that mentioned third party nonsense software.
Also, people mention dell and hp from their popularity.
I mean no offense, but here's a link showing that OSX is full of Vulnerabilites, page 44, i found other studies, but they had a feeling of being biased towards M$, and as i said, i don't quite think IBM is going to do campaing in favor of M$
A built PC doesn't come with Windows. The user needs to install it. Manufacturers like HP and Dell preload Windows before selling the machine. Common sense I know, but my point was if their ads are against PCs, why always talk about Windows? (I had misinterpreted your point to begin with so i went off on an idea without needing to lol.)
To be honest, I don't remember a commercial that mentioned third party nonsense software.
Also, people mention dell and hp from their popularity.
If this were really the point, then HP wouldn't have had to issue a patch to run on it's AMD line BEFORE you ran XP SP3 to prevent it from never booting after the install. The problems are not ONLY with Windows in that case.
Comments
OK, that ad should be dropped or updated. That was a silly claim in the first place anyways as on my MBP, three screws and $50 in memory gets you 4GB. I think Apple should have been doing 4GB standard anyway given the meager cost of the chips, but the bean counter keeping track of upgrade pricing probably had his say.
How about the claim that the price reduction invalidates a price claim made by Microsoft? That's what the story and this thread is about. I was hoping someone could clarify that one. It's possible I haven't seen a particular ad, but I don't remember any add where a $100 price reduction would have changed anything.
What were those lies? You said it twice but didn't bother to mention any specifics.
Like the one that says that windows comes with a bunch of 3rd party crud ware.
Out of the box a windows install doesnt come with any of that stuff. Its dell and hp that ad that stuff their .
Also what about the fact they portray microsoft as the hardware maker in those ads? Technically i can buy a pc with ubuntu on it straight from dell and not get any of that stuff.
So yes Apple does the same things in their ads and has no right to complain .
vastly more choice in hardware and software
[RANT] I'll give you the hardware part, but I'm going to have to call you on the software. Can a PC run OS X applications legally ? I would say Final Cut being the big one, the iLife suite that comes free with OS X is pretty awesome. A Mac can dual boot into Windows natively via Boot Camp without VM overhead (actually my Macs have been the best hardware I've had run Windows). A Mac can also run Windows applications even within the Mac desktop using virtualization. Can a PC run *nix applications natively? Since OS X is built on FreeBSD it comes with a full complement of open source applications built in. Before you claim that PCs offer more software choices for computer "professionals", you may actually want to use a Mac first. I would never, ever go back to the PC/Windows monoculture. As a web developer and application programmer for over 12+ years (I guess that qualifies me a "professional"), the first Mac I bought over 4 years ago was the best decision I've ever made. I will put my 2 cents in on the hardware before I end this rant. I've owned an Acer (the WORST computer of all time), a couple Dells, Toshiba, HP, several beige boxes (some built by me), and a several rack mounted servers (some built by me). None of those PCs ever compared to the MacBook Pro or Mac Pro I now own in my opinion. YMMV. I'm going to sell my 4 yo MBP for about 65% of what I paid for it with added upgrades (can you do that with a 4 yo PC?) to buy a new 17" MBP--and to me it is worth every penny. [/RANT]
Apple Lawyers don't make social phone calls; they send "cease and desist" letters if they are sure to have a case.
This story is simply too stupid to believe; as if a company lawyer would phone a COO of one the biggest competitors with a non-traceable request. Lawyers do everything on paper, by fax and by registered mail.
yep. gonna have to agree with this. sounds too uncharacteristic of Apple to be true. Not their style at all.
Like the one that says that windows comes with a bunch of 3rd party crud ware.
Out of the box a windows install doesnt come with any of that stuff. Its dell and hp that ad that stuff their .
I don't think you will find a single ad from Apple that says Windows comes with "a bunch of 3rd party crud ware". They are saying PCs come with other extra stuff.....and they do.
I don't think you will find a single ad from Apple that says Windows comes with "a bunch of 3rd party crud ware". They are saying PCs come with other extra stuff.....and they do.
Technically PC's don't even come with Windows dude. Dell computers and HP computers come with that stuff. Are Apple ads not an attack against Microsoft?
It was a vailid counterpoint, because that link doesn't prove the claim that Macs have the same number of vulnerabilities. That was from one vulnerability. Read what that reply was to:
elroth didn't properly quote it, so I don't know who to attribute that to.
I mean no offense, but here's a link showing that OSX is full of Vulnerabilites, page 44, i found other studies, but they had a feeling of being biased towards M$, and as i said, i don't quite think IBM is going to do campaing in favor of M$
http://www-935.ibm.com/services/us/i...ual-report.pdf
can't speak about all of them but Lauren was outted as an actress, the rest likely were also.
and here's a fun bit. Microsoft claims they weren't paid. they got the computer and NOTHING else, the only way to get away with that (no filming day salary, no residuals etc) is to film non union. so one of, if not the, largest software company in the country is filming major ad campaigns non-union. Walmart was slammed for this for years. Wonder what the unions would do to Microsoft.
Yeah, especially when the actor is a member of the Screen Actors Guild, which has very strict guidelines about minimum compensation for its members. Pretty unlikely they risked not paying her, unless they considered the computer money as her compensation for contractual purposes.
http://www.sag.org/content/commercial-contracts
And re: MS advertising other companies' hardware rather than their own software, it's interesting to do a comparison in price between the software instead, since a pro version of Windows costs way more than OSX, and the Snow Leopard upgrade is going to cost $29. Anybody want to bet that MS will only charge $29 to upgrade to Windows 7?
Everyday Joes buy PCs because they are familiar, offer more choice, and are a bit cheaper. Professionals buy PCs because they offer vastly more choice in hardware and software, and have an OS that doesn't treat you like an idiot and is highly productive (XP anyway, MS blew it with Vista by trying to emulate OSX). Virus problems, etc. are vastly overstated and other than being cool and part of the club, are the only talking point apple fans have to justify less choice, a clunky OS, and higher prices.
Impressive. For a first post, you troll like a pro.
Technically PC's don't even come with Windows dude. Dell computers and HP computers come with that stuff. Are Apple ads not an attack against Microsoft?
PCs don't come with Windows? Dells and HPs are not PCs?
I never said that Apple ads are not an attack against Microsoft. But majortom1981 claimed that there was an Apple ad that said that Windows comes with "a bunch of 3rd party crud ware". That was the point I was correcting.
Also, to be totally honest, I haven't bought a PC in years but have all other PC manufacturers gone out of business? Everyone always talks about HP and Dell. What about Acer, Gateway, Toshiba, Lenovo, Sony....? When you buy/configure one of these with Windows, do they not come with the "extra stuff"? (honest question)
What proof does Mr. Turner put forward in this article? What the name of the person on Apples legal team is he quoting. By the way? I just got a call from Microsoft Marketing department and they told me Steve Ballmer flue to Memphis to get a lobotomy.
They gave you incorrect information.
I got word from Microsoft's Board of Directors that Ballmer actually drove to Vancouver so he could have a sex change operation and become Bill Gates' lover.
And re: MS advertising other companies' hardware rather than their own software, it's interesting to do a comparison in price between the software instead, since a pro version of Windows costs way more than OSX, and the Snow Leopard upgrade is going to cost $29. Anybody want to bet that MS will only charge $29 to upgrade to Windows 7?
You really want a comparison? Figure the cost of Windows Ultimate Server with unlimited clients compared to Mac OS X Server with unlimited clients (still $999 IIRC).
Or, figure the cost of upgrading 1,000 computers from Vista to Win 7 (if you can find 1000 computers running Vista) compared to 1,000 Macs from Leopard to Snow Leopard. That eliminates the 'you can preorder 25 computers at a lower price' issue.
You really want a comparison? Figure the cost of Windows Ultimate Server with unlimited clients compared to Mac OS X Server with unlimited clients (still $999 IIRC).
Or, figure the cost of upgrading 1,000 computers from Vista to Win 7 (if you can find 1000 computers running Vista) compared to 1,000 Macs from Leopard to Snow Leopard. That eliminates the 'you can preorder 25 computers at a lower price' issue.
Snow Leopard looks to me more as a service pack... you're being charged for!
....Grand Central.... hm... Microsoft called it NT Executive approx 3 years ago... not so cool name though
Everyday Joes buy PCs because they are familiar, offer more choice, and are a bit cheaper. Professionals buy PCs because they offer vastly more choice in hardware and software, and have an OS that doesn't treat you like an idiot and is highly productive (XP anyway, MS blew it with Vista by trying to emulate OSX). Virus problems, etc. are vastly overstated and other than being cool and part of the club, are the only talking point apple fans have to justify less choice, a clunky OS, and higher prices.
Really, overstated, huh, I've recorded over 4,500 computer repairs as a service technician and I can tell you, at least 1/3 of those repair tickets were virus removal, and other related corrupt OS issues.
Snow Leopard looks to me more as a service pack... you're being charged for!
....Grand Central.... hm... Microsoft called it NT Executive approx 3 years ago... not so cool name though
Really, a service pack that removes the majority of the legacy code, takes the installed size on the Hard disk from 8 GB to somewhere around 1.5 GB, is fully 64-Bit, and adds over 150 features? Windows 7 is closer to being called Vista SP 3.
OK, that ad should be dropped or updated. That was a silly claim in the first place anyways as on my MBP, three screws and $50 in memory gets you 4GB. I think Apple should have been doing 4GB standard anyway given the meager cost of the chips, but the bean counter keeping track of upgrade pricing probably had his say.
How about the claim that the price reduction invalidates a price claim made by Microsoft? That's what the story and this thread is about. I was hoping someone could clarify that one. It's possible I haven't seen a particular ad, but I don't remember any add where a $100 price reduction would have changed anything.
What were those lies? You said it twice but didn't bother to mention any specifics.
Actually the entry-level MacBook Pro still only comes with 2GB.
Why does Apple keep on doing this?!
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And re: MS advertising other companies' hardware rather than their own software, it's interesting to do a comparison in price between the software instead, since a pro version of Windows costs way more than OSX, and the Snow Leopard upgrade is going to cost $29. Anybody want to bet that MS will only charge $29 to upgrade to Windows 7?
MS SHOULD be paying it's users to take Vista back.
PCs don't come with Windows? Dells and HPs are not PCs?
I never said that Apple ads are not an attack against Microsoft. But majortom1981 claimed that there was an Apple ad that said that Windows comes with "a bunch of 3rd party crud ware". That was the point I was correcting.
Also, to be totally honest, I haven't bought a PC in years but have all other PC manufacturers gone out of business? Everyone always talks about HP and Dell. What about Acer, Gateway, Toshiba, Lenovo, Sony....? When you buy/configure one of these with Windows, do they not come with the "extra stuff"? (honest question)
A built PC doesn't come with Windows. The user needs to install it. Manufacturers like HP and Dell preload Windows before selling the machine. Common sense I know, but my point was if their ads are against PCs, why always talk about Windows? (I had misinterpreted your point to begin with so i went off on an idea without needing to lol.)
To be honest, I don't remember a commercial that mentioned third party nonsense software.
Also, people mention dell and hp from their popularity.
I mean no offense, but here's a link showing that OSX is full of Vulnerabilites, page 44, i found other studies, but they had a feeling of being biased towards M$, and as i said, i don't quite think IBM is going to do campaing in favor of M$
http://www-935.ibm.com/services/us/i...ual-report.pdf
Perhaps full of vulnerabilities compared to my refrigerator.
A built PC doesn't come with Windows. The user needs to install it. Manufacturers like HP and Dell preload Windows before selling the machine. Common sense I know, but my point was if their ads are against PCs, why always talk about Windows? (I had misinterpreted your point to begin with so i went off on an idea without needing to lol.)
To be honest, I don't remember a commercial that mentioned third party nonsense software.
Also, people mention dell and hp from their popularity.
If this were really the point, then HP wouldn't have had to issue a patch to run on it's AMD line BEFORE you ran XP SP3 to prevent it from never booting after the install. The problems are not ONLY with Windows in that case.
Actually the entry-level MacBook Pro still only comes with 2GB.
Why does Apple keep on doing this?!
I'e often asked that myself...