I wonder how many companies can pull an Apple and consolodate products down to a single offering or maybe 2-3 models successfully. It so goes against traditional logic, but from a marketing perspective it is so completely pure.
Nokia built their success on the opposite model, as has HTC. LG and Samsung seem a little closer to it, but not really. RIM is moving away from that purity.
It will be interesting to see which approach is best long-term.
From what I?m told, the N97 ?feels? as fast as the 3GS which is liekly in many tasks considering it?s not using the hefty OS X, but it still has half the 3G radio bandwidth capability with only 3.6Mbps, an ARM11(ARM v6) at 434MHz with 128MB RAM. For this to be Nokia?s flapship smartphone it seems remiss to not to at leastoffer the Cortex A8 (ARM v7), which adds power and battery performance. I hope they are working on something great over in Finland. I?ll be watching their news seeing if they look like a good company to invest in.
I heard there is big market in Finlind for Raindeer blood !
You may be right, but we have seen companies come back strong after longer periods of being less ineffectual in the market, and with a lot less money and resources at hand.
Yes, that's true too (and I have no doubt you mean Apple ). But they are truly the exception.
Look, I hope Nokia is one of those too. But I doubt it. Because they seem to lack the computer software skills that Apple has. I believe that the future of mobile telephony lies in computing (in the broad sense of the term) and not in just enabling phone calls (which Nokia was great at).
In comparison to most Nokia phones the iPhone camera is still lacking with only 3Mpx, of which you stated that 5Mpx was the minimum the iPhone should have.
5 megapixels on a camera phone? Are you kidding? Why are people still even talking about this stuff? Unless you're planning to make posters out of your phone pictures, there comes a point when the amount of megapixels being used is largely a joke, and definitely a waste of storage space—and we're at that point. If you want to compare the photos, compare the quality of the result. In a cell phone camera the quality of the optics is the major factor to consider. Too bad for the industry there's no handy number to rate that. It doesn't matter if a camera is 12 megapixels if the optics suck...
Yes, that's true too (and I have no doubt you mean Apple ). But they are truly the exception.
Look, I hope Nokia is one of those too. But I doubt it. Because they seem to lack the computer software skills that Apple has. I believe that the future of mobile telephony lies in computing (in the broad sense of the term) and not in just enabling phone calls (which Nokia was great at).
I don?t think many would have thought Palm, who was(is?) licensing WinMo from MS and having designed their antiquated PalmOS would have been able to create WebOS. It?s not perfect and very weak in compared to OS X, but there are some areas it does excel in. Areas I hope Apple takes a cue from for their iPhone OS X upgrades.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xian Zhu Xuande
5 megapixels on a camera phone? Are you kidding? Why are people still even talking about this stuff? Unless you're planning to make posters out of your phone pictures, there comes a point when the amount of megapixels being used is largely a joke, and definitely a waste of storage space?and we're at that point. If you want to compare the photos, compare the quality of the result. In a cell phone camera the quality of the optics is the major factor to consider. Too bad for the industry there's no handy number to rate that. It doesn't matter if a camera is 12 megapixels if the optics suck...
I?m right there with you. Some people here want simply want it because it?s more. In Nokia?s defense the camera phones often do look better than the iPhone at the same resolution due to the better optics that can be used in those larger phones.
Quote:
Originally Posted by al_bundy
Linux is a loser on the desktop with app names like gimp that make thnk of the s&m dude who lived on a box in pulp fiction
nokia is a loser because their cell phone os is named after a sex machine
Sybian is the sex machine, not Symbian. If they want their OS to be named after a real sex machine they?ll name it Solipsism.
One of the numbers to come out of the report is the average handset selling price fell to 62? down 3? since last quarter, Nokia may be selling a lot of phones but they are mainly cheap ones.
One of the numbers to come out of the report is the average handset selling price fell to 62? down 3? since last quarter, Nokia may be selling a lot of phones but they are mainly cheap ones.
I believe I also read that there operating costs have dramatically increased. That could mean many things, for example, longterm R&D or a budget increase in marketing.
I must say I've been here quite a while and I've never noticed solipsism to be "anti-Apple" at all. In fact he/she is mostly an intelligent, unbiased and thoughtful type. Teckstud can hardly say the same.
Just for the record, when I was calling Solip "anti-Apple" I was really poking Techstud (in a friendly way) over his aparent reversals...
I must say I've been here quite a while and I've never noticed solipsism to be "anti-Apple" at all. In fact he/she is mostly an intelligent, unbiased and thoughtful type. Teckstud can hardly say the same.
That was a joke that the other poster made, of which you obviously didn't get.
Unbiased? He's totally biased towards APPle (some call it a fanboy, kool-aid drinker- I won't). Amything that is not currently in an APPle product that people want, be it matte screens, MMS texting , video on a phone, small form pro laptop, etc, etc, etc, - he opposes- say it's not in the Apple business model, not needed, or whatever- only because Apple in not currently offering it. He call us complainers. Then when Apple delivers what we've been asking for he gets all bent out of shape. Puhleez- do you even know what biased means?
It is bound to happen, though none was expecting it to be this soon. Apple will dominate this lucrative market within the next 2 years. Don't listen to naysayers. Don't believe paid analysts. Look at the real number - dollars. That is the real truth. Yes, Nokia may ship hundreds of millions of phones per year, it is not a proof of anything. Motorola ships millions too, and yet they are on the verge of going under.
Nokia phones is a commodity. Apple iPhone is not. It is a functional desire. It is sexy. And more people desire it, more than they will admit. It is the THING!
The march is on, and there is no stopping Apple for a long time to come. You haven't seen nothing yet. The best is et to come!
Has no one visited that... cough app-store cough.... It looks like something my Grandmother could have done and she'd been dead going on 10 years... At least they can't be accused of copying Apple... That's for sure!!!
With 2G GSM phones Nokia has the advantage that they part of the GSM IPR group with this company controlling the bulk of the IPRs. Anybody outside the cabal had to pay big time royalties. The company also design a good and simple user interface. The design was simple to candy bar type on a single circuit board. Everything else just clicked together... 6 basic designs.
With 3G, Nokia has to pay royalties to others like QCOM. The whole phone has morphed into a portable data platform with a powerful OS like the in the iPhone, plus the apps and the value chain. This kind of change is very disruptive to the existing order and their profits and market cap reflects this reality.
They did a good job fighting QCOM and got a reduced royalty rate... but no longer control the architecture. If they continue in the current path, their phones will be just commodities for low end use here and 3rd world thin margin biz.
When the telco tech went from circuit switched networks to IP... guess what happened? Lucent, Nortel, etc that dominated the circuit switches just imploded and the Cisco controls the business. Cisco developed a disruptive tech... and the old companies just got wiped out. BTW, Lucent and Nortel were no light weights either - in their heyday, they had business in cash, huge market caps $100B. Lucent has Bell Labs with experts in every area and even Nobel Prize winners.
Will Nokia end up in the dust heap of history? May be not... they can always go back to selling rubber boots.
That's the good news for NOK. The bad news is that they're trying to become user solutions centric, which Apple already is. Nokia's CEO highlighted five key points about the coming transformation of the smartphone market. But while Nokia is just getting started in many of those areas, Apple is already doing four of the five; only lacking in the openness-partnership area (which I believe is overrated).
So this transformation started with the iPhone (though one could argue that iPhone 2.0 software and 3G is the real beginning point). Including this quarter, Apple has sold about 27M phones. However, the current cellphone market has 4B subscriptions, and possibly up to 50% of those subscribers could buy such phones over the next 5 years, so that's 2B potential units to be sold. From that perspective, this market is still in its infancy so Nokia has a chance, but Apple is already out in front in UI, media content, native apps, and device pricing. But there's still 98.6% of the market to go.
I’m right there with you. Some people here want simply want it because it’s more. In Nokia’s defense the camera phones often do look better than the iPhone at the same resolution due to the better optics that can be used in those larger phones.
Hey, there was a complaint from the PCmag reviewer about Nokia not putting the 8 MP camera from the N86 in the camera.
Some of these guys may know about the electronics they review, but they don't have good ears or eyes for quality sound or photography.
Quote:
Sybian is the sex machine, not Symbian.
Don't be technical, it's close enough. It would have been worse if the machine were named after the OS, which is more possible, because the OS came out before the machine.
Quote:
If they want their OS to be named after a real sex machine they’ll name it Solipsism.
That's the good news for NOK. The bad news is that they're trying to become user solutions centric, which Apple already is. Nokia's CEO highlighted five key points about the coming transformation of the smartphone market. But while Nokia is just getting started in many of those areas, Apple is already doing four of the five; only lacking in the openness-partnership area (which I believe is overrated).
So this transformation started with the iPhone (though one could argue that iPhone 2.0 software and 3G is the real beginning point). Including this quarter, Apple has sold about 27M phones. However, the current cellphone market has 4B subscriptions, and possibly up to 50% of those subscribers could buy such phones over the next 5 years, so that's 2B potential units to be sold. From that perspective, this market is still in its infancy so Nokia has a chance, but Apple is already out in front in UI, media content, native apps, and device pricing. But there's still 98.6% of the market to go.
Of course, it's not just Apple and Nokia. We can't forget RIM. The first company that has a chance of beating Nokia for the marketshare champ would have to be them. Apple maybe third after Nokia, and then the fun begins.
Will Nokia still be on the way down? Will Apple still be on the way up?
Comments
Nokia built their success on the opposite model, as has HTC. LG and Samsung seem a little closer to it, but not really. RIM is moving away from that purity.
It will be interesting to see which approach is best long-term.
From what I?m told, the N97 ?feels? as fast as the 3GS which is liekly in many tasks considering it?s not using the hefty OS X, but it still has half the 3G radio bandwidth capability with only 3.6Mbps, an ARM11(ARM v6) at 434MHz with 128MB RAM. For this to be Nokia?s flapship smartphone it seems remiss to not to at leastoffer the Cortex A8 (ARM v7), which adds power and battery performance. I hope they are working on something great over in Finland. I?ll be watching their news seeing if they look like a good company to invest in.
I heard there is big market in Finlind for Raindeer blood !
This is the article with the "Motorola minute" in it. It sums up things fairly well
http://www.forbes.com/2009/07/17/nok...partner=alerts
Here we are now years after the iphone was introduced and what has Nokia done? almost nothing to create a similar total solution..
That is the critical observation. Nails it for me.
You may be right, but we have seen companies come back strong after longer periods of being less ineffectual in the market, and with a lot less money and resources at hand.
Yes, that's true too (and I have no doubt you mean Apple
Look, I hope Nokia is one of those too. But I doubt it. Because they seem to lack the computer software skills that Apple has. I believe that the future of mobile telephony lies in computing (in the broad sense of the term) and not in just enabling phone calls (which Nokia was great at).
In comparison to most Nokia phones the iPhone camera is still lacking with only 3Mpx, of which you stated that 5Mpx was the minimum the iPhone should have.
5 megapixels on a camera phone? Are you kidding? Why are people still even talking about this stuff? Unless you're planning to make posters out of your phone pictures, there comes a point when the amount of megapixels being used is largely a joke, and definitely a waste of storage space—and we're at that point. If you want to compare the photos, compare the quality of the result. In a cell phone camera the quality of the optics is the major factor to consider. Too bad for the industry there's no handy number to rate that. It doesn't matter if a camera is 12 megapixels if the optics suck...
nokia is a loser because their cell phone os is named after a sex machine
Yes, that's true too (and I have no doubt you mean Apple
Look, I hope Nokia is one of those too. But I doubt it. Because they seem to lack the computer software skills that Apple has. I believe that the future of mobile telephony lies in computing (in the broad sense of the term) and not in just enabling phone calls (which Nokia was great at).
I don?t think many would have thought Palm, who was(is?) licensing WinMo from MS and having designed their antiquated PalmOS would have been able to create WebOS. It?s not perfect and very weak in compared to OS X, but there are some areas it does excel in. Areas I hope Apple takes a cue from for their iPhone OS X upgrades.
5 megapixels on a camera phone? Are you kidding? Why are people still even talking about this stuff? Unless you're planning to make posters out of your phone pictures, there comes a point when the amount of megapixels being used is largely a joke, and definitely a waste of storage space?and we're at that point. If you want to compare the photos, compare the quality of the result. In a cell phone camera the quality of the optics is the major factor to consider. Too bad for the industry there's no handy number to rate that. It doesn't matter if a camera is 12 megapixels if the optics suck...
I?m right there with you. Some people here want simply want it because it?s more. In Nokia?s defense the camera phones often do look better than the iPhone at the same resolution due to the better optics that can be used in those larger phones.
Linux is a loser on the desktop with app names like gimp that make thnk of the s&m dude who lived on a box in pulp fiction
nokia is a loser because their cell phone os is named after a sex machine
Sybian is the sex machine, not Symbian. If they want their OS to be named after a real sex machine they?ll name it Solipsism.
One of the numbers to come out of the report is the average handset selling price fell to 62? down 3? since last quarter, Nokia may be selling a lot of phones but they are mainly cheap ones.
I believe I also read that there operating costs have dramatically increased. That could mean many things, for example, longterm R&D or a budget increase in marketing.
You snooze, you loose.
I don't know if I can handle tekstud as a fanboi
Yes.
I must say I've been here quite a while and I've never noticed solipsism to be "anti-Apple" at all. In fact he/she is mostly an intelligent, unbiased and thoughtful type. Teckstud can hardly say the same.
Just for the record, when I was calling Solip "anti-Apple" I was really poking Techstud (in a friendly way) over his aparent reversals...
Yes.
I must say I've been here quite a while and I've never noticed solipsism to be "anti-Apple" at all. In fact he/she is mostly an intelligent, unbiased and thoughtful type. Teckstud can hardly say the same.
That was a joke that the other poster made, of which you obviously didn't get.
Unbiased? He's totally biased towards APPle (some call it a fanboy, kool-aid drinker- I won't). Amything that is not currently in an APPle product that people want, be it matte screens, MMS texting , video on a phone, small form pro laptop, etc, etc, etc, - he opposes- say it's not in the Apple business model, not needed, or whatever- only because Apple in not currently offering it. He call us complainers. Then when Apple delivers what we've been asking for he gets all bent out of shape. Puhleez- do you even know what biased means?
Just for the record, when I was calling Solip "anti-Apple" I was really poking Techstud (in a friendly way) over his aparent reversals...
I can't believe these sensitive types didn't get the irony!
Nokia phones is a commodity. Apple iPhone is not. It is a functional desire. It is sexy. And more people desire it, more than they will admit. It is the THING!
The march is on, and there is no stopping Apple for a long time to come. You haven't seen nothing yet. The best is et to come!
D
With 3G, Nokia has to pay royalties to others like QCOM. The whole phone has morphed into a portable data platform with a powerful OS like the in the iPhone, plus the apps and the value chain. This kind of change is very disruptive to the existing order and their profits and market cap reflects this reality.
They did a good job fighting QCOM and got a reduced royalty rate... but no longer control the architecture. If they continue in the current path, their phones will be just commodities for low end use here and 3rd world thin margin biz.
When the telco tech went from circuit switched networks to IP... guess what happened? Lucent, Nortel, etc that dominated the circuit switches just imploded and the Cisco controls the business. Cisco developed a disruptive tech... and the old companies just got wiped out. BTW, Lucent and Nortel were no light weights either - in their heyday, they had business in cash, huge market caps $100B. Lucent has Bell Labs with experts in every area and even Nobel Prize winners.
Will Nokia end up in the dust heap of history? May be not... they can always go back to selling rubber boots.
They may find it difficult to change.
This is the article with the "Motorola minute" in it. It sums up things fairly well
http://www.forbes.com/2009/07/17/nok...partner=alerts
Nokia is trying to change, so we can say that at least they largely see how they aren't set up for the future. See the conference call transcript at http://seekingalpha.com/article/1493...all-transcript
That's the good news for NOK. The bad news is that they're trying to become user solutions centric, which Apple already is. Nokia's CEO highlighted five key points about the coming transformation of the smartphone market. But while Nokia is just getting started in many of those areas, Apple is already doing four of the five; only lacking in the openness-partnership area (which I believe is overrated).
So this transformation started with the iPhone (though one could argue that iPhone 2.0 software and 3G is the real beginning point). Including this quarter, Apple has sold about 27M phones. However, the current cellphone market has 4B subscriptions, and possibly up to 50% of those subscribers could buy such phones over the next 5 years, so that's 2B potential units to be sold. From that perspective, this market is still in its infancy so Nokia has a chance, but Apple is already out in front in UI, media content, native apps, and device pricing. But there's still 98.6% of the market to go.
I’m right there with you. Some people here want simply want it because it’s more. In Nokia’s defense the camera phones often do look better than the iPhone at the same resolution due to the better optics that can be used in those larger phones.
Hey, there was a complaint from the PCmag reviewer about Nokia not putting the 8 MP camera from the N86 in the camera.
Some of these guys may know about the electronics they review, but they don't have good ears or eyes for quality sound or photography.
Sybian is the sex machine, not Symbian.
Don't be technical, it's close enough. It would have been worse if the machine were named after the OS, which is more possible, because the OS came out before the machine.
If they want their OS to be named after a real sex machine they’ll name it Solipsism.
Now I KNOW you have a good sense of humor.
Nokia is trying to change, so we can say that at least they largely see how they aren't set up for the future. See the conference call transcript at http://seekingalpha.com/article/1493...all-transcript
That's the good news for NOK. The bad news is that they're trying to become user solutions centric, which Apple already is. Nokia's CEO highlighted five key points about the coming transformation of the smartphone market. But while Nokia is just getting started in many of those areas, Apple is already doing four of the five; only lacking in the openness-partnership area (which I believe is overrated).
So this transformation started with the iPhone (though one could argue that iPhone 2.0 software and 3G is the real beginning point). Including this quarter, Apple has sold about 27M phones. However, the current cellphone market has 4B subscriptions, and possibly up to 50% of those subscribers could buy such phones over the next 5 years, so that's 2B potential units to be sold. From that perspective, this market is still in its infancy so Nokia has a chance, but Apple is already out in front in UI, media content, native apps, and device pricing. But there's still 98.6% of the market to go.
Of course, it's not just Apple and Nokia. We can't forget RIM. The first company that has a chance of beating Nokia for the marketshare champ would have to be them. Apple maybe third after Nokia, and then the fun begins.
Will Nokia still be on the way down? Will Apple still be on the way up?
We could have all three jockeying for the lead.