Has no one visited that... cough app-store cough.... It looks like something my Grandmother could have done and she'd been dead going on 10 years... At least they can't be accused of copying Apple... That's for sure!!!
D
They have a robot there...hmmm..maybe copying Android?
Yes, 3G has been around for a while. I remember when it first moved out. But in Europe and Japan, the first big areas to get good coverage, the cell companies had a lot of problems trying to get people to sign up. They simply didn't want to pay for it. In fact that was why messaging was so popular both in Japan and Europe?it was cheaper.
So yes, there was good coverage in those places fairly early, but there wasn't great USAGE of it. That's much more recent.
The iPhone did spur heavy use of data services, and that involves mostly 3G. After all, the numbers show that about half of all data usage is from iPhones worldwide. That's been reported in many places. Then there are all the other 3G phones around the world put together getting the other half.
can't be be helped when you have the best damn browser on the iPhone and being best Internet comm. device in general.
Shares of Nokia tumbled this week, as the world's largest handset maker believes its market share will recede over the next year, while competitor Apple sees continued growth with the iPhone platform.
Does anybody know where Sapporobaby is hiding these days?
The biggest problem with Apple's competitors was the same problem that Apple itself had upon the Big Kahuna's return in the mid-1990s: too much choice. Today, Apple has only five models of laptops: Cheapest, lightest and professional models 13, 15, 17; I defy you to get simpler--customers don't have to agonise; each one is distinct from the other 4 and covers a particular need; sure it would be great to have a 17 screen at all times, but that's an extra 2-3 pounds that most of us don't want to lug around. Ditto with the MBA; it has its down sides, but let's face it, the CD/DVD drive will be gone in 3 years from laptops
Consumers DON'T want to have to figure out minimal differences in configurations, screen size, keyboards megapixels in a phone's camera etc etc. Both Nokia and Sony-E have 60 DIFFERENT phones
You can never achieve economy of scale, never guarantee the desired model is in stock at a particular store, and on top of you overload the customer: customers DON"T want "choice"--they simply want the best product and the most hassle free transition from their old phone to their new one. It couldn't get easier than the iPhone
Henry Ford famously said when he was assembling millions of Model Ts as his competors were going belly up one by one, You can have any colour you want, as long as it's black
SJ can say the same thing 90 years later, but (grudgingly, I suppose) allowed for a white model--which if there's an ongoing heat problem that turns them pink, well, may eventually give way to an all black lineup
So if you go to an O2, or a Carphone Warehouse, there's no thinking about which--there is ONLY ONE MODEL with different sizes; it's surprising that Nok and SE don't realise how much they're losing by having so many models
... Henry Ford famously said when he was assembling millions of Model Ts as his competors were going belly up one by one, You can have any colour you want, as long as it's black
SJ can say the same thing 90 years later, but (grudgingly, I suppose) allowed for a white model--which if there's an ongoing heat problem that turns them pink, well, may eventually give way to an all black lineup. ...
I totally agree with what you are saying about choice, but your reasoning for the white model is not right.
The reason Apple usually offers white (or plain metal), offerings alongside the black is that Steve Jobs himself (and anyone with a good sense of style, design, etc.) buys those. The black ones are what the average joe wants. This is born out by the sales ratios. At least twice as many people (and sometimes much more), buy black as buy white.
The reason black things sell is that the average joe really doesn't know or care about colour and are buying the product, not the colour. Ford realised this early on and also realise the economies producing things in only one colour could bring. There was also the equivalent of the colourware people operating in those days in that the cars could always be painted after being bought.
What Apple realised is that if you make a real high quality, stylish designed product people will always buy it for the quality, but that most of the buyers don't actually have any idea of what looks good, don't care about colour, and don't feel comfortable buying anything too outlandish. Therefore, the black models.
Nothing can be forecasted with certainty. However, if Nokia was not capable of building a "...new, robust OS with a focus on UI..." when they were a $120B mkt cap company, I seriously doubt that they can do so as a $50B company.
Market cap or paper profits never realized means little, when we speak about creative vision. 2b market cap can be enough to create a fine OS that works great, including an excellent app store. The Microsoft like inertia that afflicts many large companies has tied Nokia's hands >too many cooks all pulling in all directions all the while trying to protect there little fiefdoms. Look at GM or Sony, both could not produce in 10 yrs. because of this inertia while the markets left them behind.
In the phone game, time is always there to fix old problems. Every two years anew batch of clients are re-chose there carrier, Nokia is so large, and has so many loyal clients that in a few years they will build out a fine app store and a fine OS/ Nokia will contact google or amazon to fix their app /os problems .
What Apple realised is that if you make a real high quality, stylish designed product people will always buy it for the quality, but that most of the buyers don't actually have any idea of what looks good, don't care about colour, and don't feel comfortable buying anything too outlandish. Therefore, the black models.
That comment coming from a bunch of Apple fans, that really makes a big impact
Again, quoting yourself, that is just one persons opinion.
To say that Nokia is clueless is very naive, and to go around quoting it says a lot of the knowledge of a company like Nokia around here.
Remember Apple's stock tanked a while back, dropped from $200 down to $60 something. When that happens to Apple, the comment is always "That is happened to the whole market". , this thread hasn't said anything of value, and won't.
Nokia has inertia, habit and installed user base on its side. That's masking their apparent inability to build a compelling, modern smartphone.
If Nokia is something other than "clueless", where is their competitive smartphone? I don't mean a luxury handset with a lot of pretty buttons or a high pixel count camera, I mean a device that does a great job of integrating hardware and software with an intuitive UI, an OS that can be built out for desktop class apps, and a great way of accessing content and apps?
It's not like the new landscape in smartphones happened overnight-- the iPhone has been around for over two years. A huge, well capitalized company like Nokia, with it's deep knowledge of handset design and manufacturing, can't do better than the N97 after all this time? Why is that anything less than a very public admission of failure?
Some folks are talking like it's not really Nokia's fault that they're saddled with a subpar OS, or that they'll be releasing their "real" iPhone killer any time now, or that things aren't really so bad since their smartphone share hasn't completely collapsed, or that they'll buy Palm or something and then we'll all be sorry.
But none of those those things seem to involve a company that has a clear idea how to proceed. A company that's as good as its fans seem to think it is doesn't release the N97 into this market. A company as good as its fans seem to think it is doesn't shed 20% share of it's most lucrative product catagory in less than a year. That's a company in disarray.
Maybe "clueless" is too harsh, but I'm not seeing anything out of Nokia that strikes me as "well clued", that's for sure.
And for Nokia's fans: you better hope that they don't share your reflexive "to the extent that anyone doesn't agree that Nokia has bragging rights on account of their mighty feature set, it's just because such a person is a hopeless Apple fan boy" rap, because that thinking will kill them dead.
The biggest problem with Apple's competitors was the same problem that Apple itself had upon the Big Kahuna's return in the mid-1990s: too much choice.
Henry Ford famously said when he was assembling millions of Model Ts as his competors were going belly up one by one, You can have any colour you want, as long as it's black
SJ can say the same thing 90 years later, but (grudgingly, I suppose) allowed for a white model--which if there's an ongoing heat problem that turns them pink, well, may eventually give way to an all black lineup
So if you go to an O2, or a Carphone Warehouse, there's no thinking about which--there is ONLY ONE MODEL with different sizes; it's surprising that Nok and SE don't realise how much they're losing by having so many models
As the adage goes something like, "The more choices one has, the longer it takes to make a decision."
Henry Ford famously said when he was assembling millions of Model Ts as his competors were going belly up one by one, You can have any colour you want, as long as it's black
True enough for Henry Ford, but a maxim that doesn't apply to Apple products. The iPhone menu of colors might be Henry Ford-esque, but not for other products. The iPod nano is available in nine (count 'em nine) colors. The first time Apple tried the multicolored scheme, with the iMac, at least one major retailer objected to Apple requiring that they take iMacs in all of the colors.
That comment coming from a bunch of Apple fans, that really makes a big impact
I criticize Apple plenty.
You rushed to support a link to a page that was obviously rushed out by a bunch of Nokia fans. That's ok by you?
And you are not yourself acting as a Nokia fan? Really?
Quote:
Again, quoting yourself, that is just one persons opinion.
Actually, that was the second opinion. And even in the first article I supplied, there were several people quoted.
Quote:
To say that Nokia is clueless is very naive, and to go around quoting it says a lot of the knowledge of a company like Nokia around here.
Remember Apple's stock tanked a while back, dropped from $200 down to $60 something. When that happens to Apple, the comment is always "That is happened to the whole market". , this thread hasn't said anything of value, and won't.
Actually, there are many that are saying this including, and I know this will be a great shock, some of those in Finland.
If you don't find the thread of value, then why are you commenting in it?
Acutally it did, but since it contradicts all the "Apple was the first with everything" notion the message won't go far
I haven't said that.
But it's not a secret that the iPhone does lead, by far, all others in internet use of 3G. This isn't in question. Do you deny that?
Apple isn't always first. But often they take what is being offered, and make great improvements in usability and desirability. They change the equation.
New iPod Touch's possibly coming Monday, so says the rumor bird.
Also earnings are coming out for Apple too, should be interesting week.
I think there will be a mixed bag: iPhones up, apps and iTunes sales great, plus iPod Touch released for even more media sales, but Mac sales down, reflecting people's conservative buying lately. (reflective computer screens not helping, as experienced users won't do glare, IMO.)
Apple planned in advance for this, knowing the effects of a post real estate bubble recession and it's effects. Why it pursued selling media and tapping the consumers monthly budget instead of only selling high ticket items.
APPL should go up despite lower than normal Mac sales in my opinion.
First of all. This isn't attack against AppleInsider or melgross (I just saw that he/she is indeed a moderator with lots of posts and therefore some might think that he is somehow more reliable or something).
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider
Shares of Nokia tumbled this week, as the world's largest handset maker believes its market share will recede over the next year, while competitor Apple sees continued growth with the iPhone platform.
Not true. Nokia said that it probably cannot gain more market share this year (like they had predicted last year) and that their market share will stay pretty much as it is now.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider
Analysts said that Nokia Oyj would not be able to keep up with Apple without an App Store-like alternative. As a result, Bloomberg said, Nokia's stock took its biggest hit in five years, dropping 15 percent, or $8.6 billion in value.
Nokia has an App Store. Everyone who takes part in this conversation should read the "Silly Silly Forbes: No its not Nokia's "Motorola Moment".. Very poor reporting" article. It is great.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider
As Nokia loses some ground, Apple continues to lead the industry in year-over-year growth.
Well actually Nokia gained more market share in Q2. Overall 37%->38% and marketshare 38%->41%. IIRC.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider
To address investor concerns, Nokia announced Thursday its response to the App Store: Symbian Horizon.
Not true. Nokia didn't announce anything. Symbian announced. Nokia is Nokia, Symbian is Symbian. Apple doesn't announce that Google Maps went out of beta and Nokia doesn't announce that Symbian is doing platform for app stores.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider
As Nokia struggles to retain its stature, a rumor emerged this week that the handset maker could buy rival manufacturer Palm. This as market watchers like Barron's told investors it was time to dump their Nokia stock.
What on earth would Nokia do with Palm? Nothing. Nokia already has Symbian & Maemo & Qt.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider
Saying the sale of Nokia shares is an "easy call," Barron's said the company should be dominating the cell phone market, not losing ground.
I guess gaining market share in Q2 is now "losing ground". Yes, they have lost market share when compared to 2005 or so, but this is business and it's normal that you have ups and downs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross
I don't know who told you that, but reviews are saying that the phone is slow, feels slow, is choppy, and is underpowered.
Link me one real review saying this. And no, Gizmodo is a no-go.
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross
Apple abandoned the Arm 11, Palm didn't bother with it for the Pre, but Nokia, for it's latest, most expensive Superphone uses it at about 435 MHz.
That's being said is an insult.
And here it is: wasn't the whole thing about iPhone the fact that it's not the hardware that matters?
Anyone who knows Symbian OS also knows that it is kind of perfect OS for mobile phones because during all years it has become very, very efficient OS. No other OS can match Symbian when it comes to power efficiency. That is why Nokia can put "old" CPU to their flagship Symbian device.
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross
The "touch" screen also still relies on a resistive panel. It's said to be insensitive. One reviewer showed a video of him trying to get the thing to respond, and ended up dropping it on to the table in disgust.
So, Engadget is also familiar to you. And the rest of the quote is just unfair: I believe you do know why. You're not lying, congrats. Selective truth ftw.
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross
The keyboard is being criticized for having the space "key" at the left side of the keyboard rather than below.
And most of the reviews are actually saying that the position of the space key is actually very good. It is not usually there but it's actually easy to learn and very handy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross
Also, Symbian now seems to be a paraphrasing of the old Win 3.1 with DOS, rather than a system that's designed to do what it should. at least a couple of reviewers said that Nokia should abandon it, and there are hints that nokia may be looking to Android, or some other Linux based system.
Oh dear. Symbian is old yes, it has its cons. Lots of people say that Nokia should abandon Symbian. The truth is: those people have evidently no idea of whatsoever what actually is Symbian and what is the problem atm. The "problem" is GUI: s60 and Symbian underneath it is perfectly fine. And I believe that when next major releases of Symbian come out (Symbian^*) the UI is revamped.
Hints of Nokia using Android are as stupid as hints of Apple using Windows Mobile.
This "some other Linux based system" is Maemo, which is nothing new. The fact that next release of Maemo will have support for actually calling without VOIP is a new thing. This first next-gen Maemo device is probably announced in early September @ Nokia World.
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross
Read some of the reviews.
I wish you would read too. And with reviews I actually mean reviews (so nothing from Gizmodo, Engadget, etc.). There are actually very high-quality mobile sites throughout the net. Like mobile-review etc.
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross
The iPhone did spur heavy use of data services, and that involves mostly 3G. After all, the numbers show that about half of all data usage is from iPhones worldwide. That's been reported in many places. Then there are all the other 3G phones around the world put together getting the other half.
The numbers do show that iPhones are used a lot in Web. But did you even once think where the numbers are from and how are they collected? For an example Market Share by Net Applications is well known to be skewed towards US, they have self admitted it. Please don't trust statistics if you don't know anything about the background. I've studied quantitative research and the main thing to know is: don't trust numbers if you don't have all the research material available. And after that is still requires huge amount of analysis to be sure that you can actually try to use gathered information in program like SPSS.
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross
We know they're looking at Andriod, and other Linux based OS's.
They are not looking at Android. They have been developing Linux (X.org, Maemo, Mozilla, Webkit, etc.) in the past and today with even bigger resources, but Nokia will never, never release an Android device. Android isn't really even genuine Linux (only the kernel). Of course Nokia R&D are probably doing lots of things and analyzing all available OS's.
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross
They have to. While Nokia may not be doomed, for top of the line smartphones, Symbian is doomed.
S60 is doomed. Symbian is nowhere near.
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross
That's why their smartphone numbers didn't slide this last quarter.
N97 wasn't even launched globally until July. Only few countries like US got it in Q2 (quite significant change actually for Nokia to start from North America). The reason why Nokia smartphone numbers didn't slide is called the Nokia E-series and Nokia 5800 ExpressMusic.
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross
But this phone, for the price, isn't very good, and there's no guarantee that sales will hold up.
You do realize that pretty much everywhere else (outside North America) the N97 is available for free? You can buy it without contract or get it subsidized with big variety of contracts.
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross
I can tell you that everywhere we went in London there were N97 ADs. Esp. in the Underground. You were pelted with them on almost every escalator. Nevertheless the iPhone seemed everywhere.
N97 has been available for couple of weeks in the UK.
iPhone quite some time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross
They may find it difficult to change.
This is the article with the "Motorola minute" in it. It sums up things fairly well
And finally we get to this great piece of journalism. This "report" is actually sad. It's not sad because it thinks that Nokia is "doomed" but because it's full of proof about the author and authors "knowledge".
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross
The page you linked to is totally worthless. They said nothing. They are just Nokia supporters.
No it is not. And you saying things like that is just sad. People, please read the articles you're commenting.
First of all: "they". Mr. Tomi Ahonen is one man.
Second thing: he is not a Nokia supporter as you mean it. People who know the industry know also Tomi Ahonen. Apparently you do not know the mobile industry. That kind of sums up the whole thread...
And after that you should really read the article by Mr. Ahonen. From the start to the end. It's excellent piece and without any bias.
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross
That link didn't have good counter arguments.
That link did have excellent and well-thought article with lots of good stuff (including few arguments against Forbes' piece).
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross
You rushed to support a link to a page that was obviously rushed out by a bunch of Nokia fans. That's ok by you?
False. I already talked about this. Look up.
And this why, frankly, my dear melgross, I don't think you should be commenting in a thread which is about mobile technology or Nokia. You may know your stuff around Apple, but as we know Apple isn't the whole industry, no matter how great company it is.
Does anybody know where Sapporobaby is hiding these days?
Actually I got a email/IM from another user in this forum that said you were asking about me. Been busy with real work but I have time to educate you if you want.
The first thing Nokia needs to do is to clean house. Too many of the old guard left. The fact that there is still a 5 year old war going on between the E-Series guys and the N-Series guys shows that the CEO is useless. Utterly. The N-Series boss is the dude with the power but he needs to go. Nokia is destroying itself from within. They can easily compete technologically with the iPhone (Which is not cutting edge. It is still an iPod that makes calls) by purchasing talent. They have the money. They can buy high-end UI and software guys, match it with their hardware base and they can easily produce competing products. Nokia was on the ropes before and they rebounded. They need to stop the nice-nice and start firing from the inside out. One thing about Apple is that the entire company falls in line with Jobs or whom ever in the leadership role. This is absent from Nokia. Until they get serious, they will lose market share. If you look in the forums, Nokia is not losing just the average Joe, but they are at risk of losing their base. This is their bread and butter. Lose the base, loose the war. Period.
As for the N97. I have one courtesy of a testing project and when compared side by side to a jail-broken but multi-tasking iPhone 3GS, the N97 wins every time. Apple is correct to NEVER let the iPhone multi-task as it is overwhelmed by the OS. Symbian may be old but it can do more than one thing at a time. It terms of opening and using apps, the N97 with its first f/w iteration is not bad. A few stability issues but the coming f/w upgrade will tell the store so I reserve judgment until then.
If memory serves correct, Apple was on the ropes a few years back too but they seemed to have done well. This has to be a forum full of short term memory challenge Republicans. No other reason to explain this myopic view.
P.S. I don't hide. Cowards do. Says something about your choice of words......
First of all. This isn't attack against AppleInsider or melgross (I just saw that he/she is indeed a moderator with lots of posts and therefore some might think that he is somehow more reliable or something).
Not true. Nokia said that it probably cannot gain more market share this year (like they had predicted last year) and that their market share will stay pretty much as it is now.
Nokia has an App Store. Everyone who takes part in this conversation should read the "Silly Silly Forbes: No its not Nokia's "Motorola Moment".. Very poor reporting" article. It is great.
Well actually Nokia gained more market share in Q2. Overall 37%->38% and marketshare 38%->41%. IIRC.
Not true. Nokia didn't announce anything. Symbian announced. Nokia is Nokia, Symbian is Symbian. Apple doesn't announce that Google Maps went out of beta and Nokia doesn't announce that Symbian is doing platform for app stores.
What on earth would Nokia do with Palm? Nothing. Nokia already has Symbian & Maemo & Qt.
I guess gaining market share in Q2 is now "losing ground". Yes, they have lost market share when compared to 2005 or so, but this is business and it's normal that you have ups and downs.
Link me one real review saying this. And no, Gizmodo is a no-go.
And here it is: wasn't the whole thing about iPhone the fact that it's not the hardware that matters?
Anyone who knows Symbian OS also knows that it is kind of perfect OS for mobile phones because during all years it has become very, very efficient OS. No other OS can match Symbian when it comes to power efficiency. That is why Nokia can put "old" CPU to their flagship Symbian device.
So, Engadget is also familiar to you. And the rest of the quote is just unfair: I believe you do know why. You're not lying, congrats. Selective truth ftw.
And most of the reviews are actually saying that the position of the space key is actually very good. It is not usually there but it's actually easy to learn and very handy.
Oh dear. Symbian is old yes, it has its cons. Lots of people say that Nokia should abandon Symbian. The truth is: those people have evidently no idea of whatsoever what actually is Symbian and what is the problem atm. The "problem" is GUI: s60 and Symbian underneath it is perfectly fine. And I believe that when next major releases of Symbian come out (Symbian^*) the UI is revamped.
Hints of Nokia using Android are as stupid as hints of Apple using Windows Mobile.
This "some other Linux based system" is Maemo, which is nothing new. The fact that next release of Maemo will have support for actually calling without VOIP is a new thing. This first next-gen Maemo device is probably announced in early September @ Nokia World.
I wish you would read too. And with reviews I actually mean reviews (so nothing from Gizmodo, Engadget, etc.). There are actually very high-quality mobile sites throughout the net. Like mobile-review etc.
The numbers do show that iPhones are used a lot in Web. But did you even once think where the numbers are from and how are they collected? For an example Market Share by Net Applications is well known to be skewed towards US, they have self admitted it. Please don't trust statistics if you don't know anything about the background. I've studied quantitative research and the main thing to know is: don't trust numbers if you don't have all the research material available. And after that is still requires huge amount of analysis to be sure that you can actually try to use gathered information in program like SPSS.
They are not looking at Android. They have been developing Linux (X.org, Maemo, Mozilla, Webkit, etc.) in the past and today with even bigger resources, but Nokia will never, never release an Android device. Android isn't really even genuine Linux (only the kernel). Of course Nokia R&D are probably doing lots of things and analyzing all available OS's.
S60 is doomed. Symbian is nowhere near.
N97 wasn't even launched globally until July. Only few countries like US got it in Q2 (quite significant change actually for Nokia to start from North America). The reason why Nokia smartphone numbers didn't slide is called the Nokia E-series and Nokia 5800 ExpressMusic.
You do realize that pretty much everywhere else (outside North America) the N97 is available for free? You can buy it without contract or get it subsidized with big variety of contracts.
N97 has been available for couple of weeks in the UK.
iPhone quite some time.
And finally we get to this great piece of journalism. This "report" is actually sad. It's not sad because it thinks that Nokia is "doomed" but because it's full of proof about the author and authors "knowledge".
No it is not. And you saying things like that is just sad. People, please read the articles you're commenting.
First of all: "they". Mr. Tomi Ahonen is one man.
Second thing: he is not a Nokia supporter as you mean it. People who know the industry know also Tomi Ahonen. Apparently you do not know the mobile industry. That kind of sums up the whole thread...
And after that you should really read the article by Mr. Ahonen. From the start to the end. It's excellent piece and without any bias.
That link did have excellent and well-thought article with lots of good stuff (including few arguments against Forbes' piece).
False. I already talked about this. Look up.
And this why, frankly, my dear melgross, I don't think you should be commenting in a thread which is about mobile technology or Nokia. You may know your stuff around Apple, but as we know Apple isn't the whole industry, no matter how great company it is.
YIPES !!!!!!!!!!!
ROFLMAOWACHFTVIMNP = Rolling on floor laughing my ass off with a cerebral hemorrhage from the vein in my neck popping.
Link me one real review saying this. And no, Gizmodo is a no-go.
First of all, I'm not going to respond to your remarks about the AI article because your post is already much too fractionated. Please try to not respond to every sentence individually. Thank you.
Now, you have no right to dismiss reviews that you don't like, from publications that you don't like. I might as well dismiss reviews from those you do like, that say what you want them to say. Your attitude makes no sense. These pubications' reviews are as good, or even better than some of the ones you might like. And you didn't bother to link to any reviews at all to counter them.
These are just a few from the top of the saved pages list of N97 reviews I have. It's an unbiased listing for you. I didn't even link to the ones you don't like.
Quote:
And here it is: wasn't the whole thing about iPhone the fact that it's not the hardware that matters?
Anyone who knows Symbian OS also knows that it is kind of perfect OS for mobile phones because during all years it has become very, very efficient OS. No other OS can match Symbian when it comes to power efficiency. That is why Nokia can put "old" CPU to their flagship Symbian device.
It's both. But why would Nokia use an older processor that Apple abandoned? A lot of people are questioning that move.
Quote:
So, Engadget is also familiar to you. And the rest of the quote is just unfair: I believe you do know why. You're not lying, congrats. Selective truth ftw.
It's not unfair. You just don't like it. If I quoted something you did like, you wouldn't have said that it was unfair, you would have used it to support your own views.
Quote:
And most of the reviews are actually saying that the position of the space key is actually very good. It is not usually there but it's actually easy to learn and very handy.
I haven't read that. The best I've seen is that people were, in some cases, surprised that the odd location wasn't a problem for them. But others found it to be a problem.
Quote:
Oh dear. Symbian is old yes, it has its cons. Lots of people say that Nokia should abandon Symbian. The truth is: those people have evidently no idea of whatsoever what actually is Symbian and what is the problem atm. The "problem" is GUI: s60 and Symbian underneath it is perfectly fine. And I believe that when next major releases of Symbian come out (Symbian^*) the UI is revamped.
This again is your opinion. Most other opinions disagree. You claim to have "special" knowledge that others don't, and so can see more clearly?
Quote:
Hints of Nokia using Android are as stupid as hints of Apple using Windows Mobile.
This "some other Linux based system" is Maemo, which is nothing new. The fact that next release of Maemo will have support for actually calling without VOIP is a new thing. This first next-gen Maemo device is probably announced in early September @ Nokia World.
I do think the idea of them using Win Mobile is farfetched. Android isn't as farfetched. Maemo isn't something that is anywhere near ready. It's a cypher right now.
Quote:
I wish you would read too. And with reviews I actually mean reviews (so nothing from Gizmodo, Engadget, etc.). There are actually very high-quality mobile sites throughout the net. Like mobile-review etc.
I've read over ten reviews so far. Some from phone sites. I've not seen one review where the phone is thought to be the equal of the 3GS in any way, or, for that matter, the Pre, as far as the OS goes.
Here's a review from a well respected PHONE site. Since the review isn't five stars, you will probably say that the site isn't very good.
The numbers do show that iPhones are used a lot in Web. But did you even once think where the numbers are from and how are they collected? For an example Market Share by Net Applications is well known to be skewed towards US, they have self admitted it. Please don't trust statistics if you don't know anything about the background. I've studied quantitative research and the main thing to know is: don't trust numbers if you don't have all the research material available. And after that is still requires huge amount of analysis to be sure that you can actually try to use gathered information in program like SPSS.
Oh please! You just want the facts to go your way. They don't. Just give it up. If the facts had shown otherwise, you would be quoting them.
Quote:
They are not looking at Android. They have been developing Linux (X.org, Maemo, Mozilla, Webkit, etc.) in the past and today with even bigger resources, but Nokia will never, never release an Android device. Android isn't really even genuine Linux (only the kernel). Of course Nokia R&D are probably doing lots of things and analyzing all available OS's.
I'm just reporting what I've read in a few places. I'm not saying it will happen. Nokia denies it. Maybe that means something, and maybe it doesn't.
Quote:
S60 is doomed. Symbian is nowhere near.
That's your opinion.
Quote:
N97 wasn't even launched globally until July. Only few countries like US got it in Q2 (quite significant change actually for Nokia to start from North America). The reason why Nokia smartphone numbers didn't slide is called the Nokia E-series and Nokia 5800 ExpressMusic.
The 5800 numbers are good, but not what they were in the beginning, which isn't unusual. No phone does as well months later. But the Nokia sold 500,000 N97's in the month it's been out. Or at least they shipped that number to distributers, as that's the way most companies count sales.
Quote:
You do realize that pretty much everywhere else (outside North America) the N97 is available for free? You can buy it without contract or get it subsidized with big variety of contracts.
Yes. The subsidies are high. but you're paying for it through your contract. But as people from Europe always delight in telling us, they like buying their phones, and they have so many of them.
Quote:
N97 has been available for couple of weeks in the UK.
iPhone quite some time.
I started seeing iPhones in New York right after they want on sale two years ago.
Quote:
And finally we get to this great piece of journalism. This "report" is actually sad. It's not sad because it thinks that Nokia is "doomed" but because it's full of proof about the author and authors "knowledge".
It's only sad to Nokia fans. There are several more that say about the same thing. I posted one from Bloomberg.
I know the "Motorola moment" hasn't gone down well with Nokia people, but it's just an expression. It shouldn't frighten you so.
Quote:
No it is not. And you saying things like that is just sad. People, please read the articles you're commenting.
First of all: "they". Mr. Tomi Ahonen is one man.
Second thing: he is not a Nokia supporter as you mean it. People who know the industry know also Tomi Ahonen. Apparently you do not know the mobile industry. That kind of sums up the whole thread...
Really? Could have fooled me. Why don't you explain then, as you seen to be saying that you know the industry.
And after that you should really read the article by Mr. Ahonen. From the start to the end. It's excellent piece and without any bias.
False. I already talked about this. Look up.
And this why, frankly, my dear melgross, I don't think you should be commenting in a thread which is about mobile technology or Nokia. You may know your stuff around Apple, but as we know Apple isn't the whole industry, no matter how great company it is.
I read his bio. He's done a lot of work for Nokia, hasn't he? The only phone MANUFACTURER he's worked for. Isn't that coincidental?
Perhaps you shouldn't be commenting here, as you haven't contributed anything new.
The only link supports the concept that this guy is a Nokia supporter. If fact, it supports the view that he's protecting his business interests.
You haven't bothered to give any other links to articles that say the opposite to what every article in financial publications, phone publications, and computer publications have been saying; Nokia is in trouble.
You also haven't provided links to the reviews you like so much.
Please do both, and then my dear Eric, we can have a more realistic, and balanced view.
Comments
Has no one visited that... cough app-store cough.... It looks like something my Grandmother could have done and she'd been dead going on 10 years... At least they can't be accused of copying Apple... That's for sure!!!
D
They have a robot there...hmmm..maybe copying Android?
We've had these discussions for years here.
Yes, 3G has been around for a while. I remember when it first moved out. But in Europe and Japan, the first big areas to get good coverage, the cell companies had a lot of problems trying to get people to sign up. They simply didn't want to pay for it. In fact that was why messaging was so popular both in Japan and Europe?it was cheaper.
So yes, there was good coverage in those places fairly early, but there wasn't great USAGE of it. That's much more recent.
The iPhone did spur heavy use of data services, and that involves mostly 3G. After all, the numbers show that about half of all data usage is from iPhones worldwide. That's been reported in many places. Then there are all the other 3G phones around the world put together getting the other half.
can't be be helped when you have the best damn browser on the iPhone and being best Internet comm. device in general.
Shares of Nokia tumbled this week, as the world's largest handset maker believes its market share will recede over the next year, while competitor Apple sees continued growth with the iPhone platform.
Does anybody know where Sapporobaby is hiding these days?
Consumers DON'T want to have to figure out minimal differences in configurations, screen size, keyboards megapixels in a phone's camera etc etc. Both Nokia and Sony-E have 60 DIFFERENT phones
You can never achieve economy of scale, never guarantee the desired model is in stock at a particular store, and on top of you overload the customer: customers DON"T want "choice"--they simply want the best product and the most hassle free transition from their old phone to their new one. It couldn't get easier than the iPhone
Henry Ford famously said when he was assembling millions of Model Ts as his competors were going belly up one by one, You can have any colour you want, as long as it's black
SJ can say the same thing 90 years later, but (grudgingly, I suppose) allowed for a white model--which if there's an ongoing heat problem that turns them pink, well, may eventually give way to an all black lineup
So if you go to an O2, or a Carphone Warehouse, there's no thinking about which--there is ONLY ONE MODEL with different sizes; it's surprising that Nok and SE don't realise how much they're losing by having so many models
... Henry Ford famously said when he was assembling millions of Model Ts as his competors were going belly up one by one, You can have any colour you want, as long as it's black
SJ can say the same thing 90 years later, but (grudgingly, I suppose) allowed for a white model--which if there's an ongoing heat problem that turns them pink, well, may eventually give way to an all black lineup. ...
I totally agree with what you are saying about choice, but your reasoning for the white model is not right.
The reason Apple usually offers white (or plain metal), offerings alongside the black is that Steve Jobs himself (and anyone with a good sense of style, design, etc.) buys those. The black ones are what the average joe wants. This is born out by the sales ratios. At least twice as many people (and sometimes much more), buy black as buy white.
The reason black things sell is that the average joe really doesn't know or care about colour and are buying the product, not the colour. Ford realised this early on and also realise the economies producing things in only one colour could bring. There was also the equivalent of the colourware people operating in those days in that the cars could always be painted after being bought.
What Apple realised is that if you make a real high quality, stylish designed product people will always buy it for the quality, but that most of the buyers don't actually have any idea of what looks good, don't care about colour, and don't feel comfortable buying anything too outlandish. Therefore, the black models.
Nothing can be forecasted with certainty. However, if Nokia was not capable of building a "...new, robust OS with a focus on UI..." when they were a $120B mkt cap company, I seriously doubt that they can do so as a $50B company.
Market cap or paper profits never realized means little, when we speak about creative vision. 2b market cap can be enough to create a fine OS that works great, including an excellent app store. The Microsoft like inertia that afflicts many large companies has tied Nokia's hands >too many cooks all pulling in all directions all the while trying to protect there little fiefdoms. Look at GM or Sony, both could not produce in 10 yrs. because of this inertia while the markets left them behind.
In the phone game, time is always there to fix old problems. Every two years anew batch of clients are re-chose there carrier, Nokia is so large, and has so many loyal clients that in a few years they will build out a fine app store and a fine OS/ Nokia will contact google or amazon to fix their app /os problems .
just saying
I
What Apple realised is that if you make a real high quality, stylish designed product people will always buy it for the quality, but that most of the buyers don't actually have any idea of what looks good, don't care about colour, and don't feel comfortable buying anything too outlandish. Therefore, the black models.
From ford to apple
from hank to hendrix
That comment coming from a bunch of Apple fans, that really makes a big impact
Again, quoting yourself, that is just one persons opinion.
To say that Nokia is clueless is very naive, and to go around quoting it says a lot of the knowledge of a company like Nokia around here.
Remember Apple's stock tanked a while back, dropped from $200 down to $60 something. When that happens to Apple, the comment is always "That is happened to the whole market". , this thread hasn't said anything of value, and won't.
Nokia has inertia, habit and installed user base on its side. That's masking their apparent inability to build a compelling, modern smartphone.
If Nokia is something other than "clueless", where is their competitive smartphone? I don't mean a luxury handset with a lot of pretty buttons or a high pixel count camera, I mean a device that does a great job of integrating hardware and software with an intuitive UI, an OS that can be built out for desktop class apps, and a great way of accessing content and apps?
It's not like the new landscape in smartphones happened overnight-- the iPhone has been around for over two years. A huge, well capitalized company like Nokia, with it's deep knowledge of handset design and manufacturing, can't do better than the N97 after all this time? Why is that anything less than a very public admission of failure?
Some folks are talking like it's not really Nokia's fault that they're saddled with a subpar OS, or that they'll be releasing their "real" iPhone killer any time now, or that things aren't really so bad since their smartphone share hasn't completely collapsed, or that they'll buy Palm or something and then we'll all be sorry.
But none of those those things seem to involve a company that has a clear idea how to proceed. A company that's as good as its fans seem to think it is doesn't release the N97 into this market. A company as good as its fans seem to think it is doesn't shed 20% share of it's most lucrative product catagory in less than a year. That's a company in disarray.
Maybe "clueless" is too harsh, but I'm not seeing anything out of Nokia that strikes me as "well clued", that's for sure.
And for Nokia's fans: you better hope that they don't share your reflexive "to the extent that anyone doesn't agree that Nokia has bragging rights on account of their mighty feature set, it's just because such a person is a hopeless Apple fan boy" rap, because that thinking will kill them dead.
The biggest problem with Apple's competitors was the same problem that Apple itself had upon the Big Kahuna's return in the mid-1990s: too much choice.
Henry Ford famously said when he was assembling millions of Model Ts as his competors were going belly up one by one, You can have any colour you want, as long as it's black
SJ can say the same thing 90 years later, but (grudgingly, I suppose) allowed for a white model--which if there's an ongoing heat problem that turns them pink, well, may eventually give way to an all black lineup
So if you go to an O2, or a Carphone Warehouse, there's no thinking about which--there is ONLY ONE MODEL with different sizes; it's surprising that Nok and SE don't realise how much they're losing by having so many models
As the adage goes something like, "The more choices one has, the longer it takes to make a decision."
Henry Ford famously said when he was assembling millions of Model Ts as his competors were going belly up one by one, You can have any colour you want, as long as it's black
True enough for Henry Ford, but a maxim that doesn't apply to Apple products. The iPhone menu of colors might be Henry Ford-esque, but not for other products. The iPod nano is available in nine (count 'em nine) colors. The first time Apple tried the multicolored scheme, with the iMac, at least one major retailer objected to Apple requiring that they take iMacs in all of the colors.
That comment coming from a bunch of Apple fans, that really makes a big impact
I criticize Apple plenty.
You rushed to support a link to a page that was obviously rushed out by a bunch of Nokia fans. That's ok by you?
And you are not yourself acting as a Nokia fan? Really?
Again, quoting yourself, that is just one persons opinion.
Actually, that was the second opinion. And even in the first article I supplied, there were several people quoted.
To say that Nokia is clueless is very naive, and to go around quoting it says a lot of the knowledge of a company like Nokia around here.
Remember Apple's stock tanked a while back, dropped from $200 down to $60 something. When that happens to Apple, the comment is always "That is happened to the whole market". , this thread hasn't said anything of value, and won't.
Actually, there are many that are saying this including, and I know this will be a great shock, some of those in Finland.
If you don't find the thread of value, then why are you commenting in it?
Acutally it did, but since it contradicts all the "Apple was the first with everything" notion the message won't go far
I haven't said that.
But it's not a secret that the iPhone does lead, by far, all others in internet use of 3G. This isn't in question. Do you deny that?
Apple isn't always first. But often they take what is being offered, and make great improvements in usability and desirability. They change the equation.
Does anybody know where Sapporobaby is hiding these days?
He's locked in a Faraday caged room in the embassy—too many phone calls.
Also earnings are coming out for Apple too, should be interesting week.
I think there will be a mixed bag: iPhones up, apps and iTunes sales great, plus iPod Touch released for even more media sales, but Mac sales down, reflecting people's conservative buying lately. (reflective computer screens not helping, as experienced users won't do glare, IMO.)
Apple planned in advance for this, knowing the effects of a post real estate bubble recession and it's effects. Why it pursued selling media and tapping the consumers monthly budget instead of only selling high ticket items.
APPL should go up despite lower than normal Mac sales in my opinion.
If Mac sales are up, then that's a extra bonus!
New iPod Touch's possibly coming Monday, so says the rumor bird.
Seriously?
Is there a precedent for iPods being introduced in July? In the middle of the back to shcool promotion?
So many questions!
Shares of Nokia tumbled this week, as the world's largest handset maker believes its market share will recede over the next year, while competitor Apple sees continued growth with the iPhone platform.
Not true. Nokia said that it probably cannot gain more market share this year (like they had predicted last year) and that their market share will stay pretty much as it is now.
Analysts said that Nokia Oyj would not be able to keep up with Apple without an App Store-like alternative. As a result, Bloomberg said, Nokia's stock took its biggest hit in five years, dropping 15 percent, or $8.6 billion in value.
Nokia has an App Store. Everyone who takes part in this conversation should read the "Silly Silly Forbes: No its not Nokia's "Motorola Moment".. Very poor reporting" article. It is great.
As Nokia loses some ground, Apple continues to lead the industry in year-over-year growth.
Well actually Nokia gained more market share in Q2. Overall 37%->38% and marketshare 38%->41%. IIRC.
To address investor concerns, Nokia announced Thursday its response to the App Store: Symbian Horizon.
Not true. Nokia didn't announce anything. Symbian announced. Nokia is Nokia, Symbian is Symbian. Apple doesn't announce that Google Maps went out of beta and Nokia doesn't announce that Symbian is doing platform for app stores.
As Nokia struggles to retain its stature, a rumor emerged this week that the handset maker could buy rival manufacturer Palm. This as market watchers like Barron's told investors it was time to dump their Nokia stock.
What on earth would Nokia do with Palm? Nothing. Nokia already has Symbian & Maemo & Qt.
Saying the sale of Nokia shares is an "easy call," Barron's said the company should be dominating the cell phone market, not losing ground.
I guess gaining market share in Q2 is now "losing ground". Yes, they have lost market share when compared to 2005 or so, but this is business and it's normal that you have ups and downs.
I don't know who told you that, but reviews are saying that the phone is slow, feels slow, is choppy, and is underpowered.
Link me one real review saying this. And no, Gizmodo is a no-go.
Apple abandoned the Arm 11, Palm didn't bother with it for the Pre, but Nokia, for it's latest, most expensive Superphone uses it at about 435 MHz.
That's being said is an insult.
And here it is: wasn't the whole thing about iPhone the fact that it's not the hardware that matters?
Anyone who knows Symbian OS also knows that it is kind of perfect OS for mobile phones because during all years it has become very, very efficient OS. No other OS can match Symbian when it comes to power efficiency. That is why Nokia can put "old" CPU to their flagship Symbian device.
The "touch" screen also still relies on a resistive panel. It's said to be insensitive. One reviewer showed a video of him trying to get the thing to respond, and ended up dropping it on to the table in disgust.
So, Engadget is also familiar to you. And the rest of the quote is just unfair: I believe you do know why. You're not lying, congrats. Selective truth ftw.
The keyboard is being criticized for having the space "key" at the left side of the keyboard rather than below.
And most of the reviews are actually saying that the position of the space key is actually very good. It is not usually there but it's actually easy to learn and very handy.
Also, Symbian now seems to be a paraphrasing of the old Win 3.1 with DOS, rather than a system that's designed to do what it should. at least a couple of reviewers said that Nokia should abandon it, and there are hints that nokia may be looking to Android, or some other Linux based system.
Oh dear. Symbian is old yes, it has its cons. Lots of people say that Nokia should abandon Symbian. The truth is: those people have evidently no idea of whatsoever what actually is Symbian and what is the problem atm. The "problem" is GUI: s60 and Symbian underneath it is perfectly fine. And I believe that when next major releases of Symbian come out (Symbian^*) the UI is revamped.
Hints of Nokia using Android are as stupid as hints of Apple using Windows Mobile.
This "some other Linux based system" is Maemo, which is nothing new. The fact that next release of Maemo will have support for actually calling without VOIP is a new thing. This first next-gen Maemo device is probably announced in early September @ Nokia World.
Read some of the reviews.
I wish you would read too. And with reviews I actually mean reviews (so nothing from Gizmodo, Engadget, etc.). There are actually very high-quality mobile sites throughout the net. Like mobile-review etc.
The iPhone did spur heavy use of data services, and that involves mostly 3G. After all, the numbers show that about half of all data usage is from iPhones worldwide. That's been reported in many places. Then there are all the other 3G phones around the world put together getting the other half.
The numbers do show that iPhones are used a lot in Web. But did you even once think where the numbers are from and how are they collected? For an example Market Share by Net Applications is well known to be skewed towards US, they have self admitted it. Please don't trust statistics if you don't know anything about the background. I've studied quantitative research and the main thing to know is: don't trust numbers if you don't have all the research material available. And after that is still requires huge amount of analysis to be sure that you can actually try to use gathered information in program like SPSS.
We know they're looking at Andriod, and other Linux based OS's.
They are not looking at Android. They have been developing Linux (X.org, Maemo, Mozilla, Webkit, etc.) in the past and today with even bigger resources, but Nokia will never, never release an Android device. Android isn't really even genuine Linux (only the kernel). Of course Nokia R&D are probably doing lots of things and analyzing all available OS's.
They have to. While Nokia may not be doomed, for top of the line smartphones, Symbian is doomed.
S60 is doomed. Symbian is nowhere near.
That's why their smartphone numbers didn't slide this last quarter.
N97 wasn't even launched globally until July. Only few countries like US got it in Q2 (quite significant change actually for Nokia to start from North America). The reason why Nokia smartphone numbers didn't slide is called the Nokia E-series and Nokia 5800 ExpressMusic.
But this phone, for the price, isn't very good, and there's no guarantee that sales will hold up.
You do realize that pretty much everywhere else (outside North America) the N97 is available for free? You can buy it without contract or get it subsidized with big variety of contracts.
I can tell you that everywhere we went in London there were N97 ADs. Esp. in the Underground. You were pelted with them on almost every escalator. Nevertheless the iPhone seemed everywhere.
N97 has been available for couple of weeks in the UK.
iPhone quite some time.
They may find it difficult to change.
This is the article with the "Motorola minute" in it. It sums up things fairly well
http://www.forbes.com/2009/07/17/nok...partner=alerts
And finally we get to this great piece of journalism. This "report" is actually sad. It's not sad because it thinks that Nokia is "doomed" but because it's full of proof about the author and authors "knowledge".
The page you linked to is totally worthless. They said nothing. They are just Nokia supporters.
No it is not. And you saying things like that is just sad. People, please read the articles you're commenting.
First of all: "they". Mr. Tomi Ahonen is one man.
Second thing: he is not a Nokia supporter as you mean it. People who know the industry know also Tomi Ahonen. Apparently you do not know the mobile industry. That kind of sums up the whole thread...
Perhaps you want to try to take a look at this: http://www.tomiahonen.com/biotomi.htm
And after that you should really read the article by Mr. Ahonen. From the start to the end. It's excellent piece and without any bias.
That link didn't have good counter arguments.
That link did have excellent and well-thought article with lots of good stuff (including few arguments against Forbes' piece).
You rushed to support a link to a page that was obviously rushed out by a bunch of Nokia fans. That's ok by you?
False. I already talked about this. Look up.
And this why, frankly, my dear melgross, I don't think you should be commenting in a thread which is about mobile technology or Nokia. You may know your stuff around Apple, but as we know Apple isn't the whole industry, no matter how great company it is.
Does anybody know where Sapporobaby is hiding these days?
Actually I got a email/IM from another user in this forum that said you were asking about me. Been busy with real work but I have time to educate you if you want.
The first thing Nokia needs to do is to clean house. Too many of the old guard left. The fact that there is still a 5 year old war going on between the E-Series guys and the N-Series guys shows that the CEO is useless. Utterly. The N-Series boss is the dude with the power but he needs to go. Nokia is destroying itself from within. They can easily compete technologically with the iPhone (Which is not cutting edge. It is still an iPod that makes calls) by purchasing talent. They have the money. They can buy high-end UI and software guys, match it with their hardware base and they can easily produce competing products. Nokia was on the ropes before and they rebounded. They need to stop the nice-nice and start firing from the inside out. One thing about Apple is that the entire company falls in line with Jobs or whom ever in the leadership role. This is absent from Nokia. Until they get serious, they will lose market share. If you look in the forums, Nokia is not losing just the average Joe, but they are at risk of losing their base. This is their bread and butter. Lose the base, loose the war. Period.
As for the N97. I have one courtesy of a testing project and when compared side by side to a jail-broken but multi-tasking iPhone 3GS, the N97 wins every time. Apple is correct to NEVER let the iPhone multi-task as it is overwhelmed by the OS. Symbian may be old but it can do more than one thing at a time. It terms of opening and using apps, the N97 with its first f/w iteration is not bad. A few stability issues but the coming f/w upgrade will tell the store so I reserve judgment until then.
If memory serves correct, Apple was on the ropes a few years back too but they seemed to have done well. This has to be a forum full of short term memory challenge Republicans. No other reason to explain this myopic view.
P.S. I don't hide. Cowards do. Says something about your choice of words......
He's locked in a Faraday caged room in the embassy?too many phone calls.
Shhhhhh...... You are not supposed to know about that....
Here come the black helicopters.....
First of all. This isn't attack against AppleInsider or melgross (I just saw that he/she is indeed a moderator with lots of posts and therefore some might think that he is somehow more reliable or something).
Not true. Nokia said that it probably cannot gain more market share this year (like they had predicted last year) and that their market share will stay pretty much as it is now.
Nokia has an App Store. Everyone who takes part in this conversation should read the "Silly Silly Forbes: No its not Nokia's "Motorola Moment".. Very poor reporting" article. It is great.
Well actually Nokia gained more market share in Q2. Overall 37%->38% and marketshare 38%->41%. IIRC.
Not true. Nokia didn't announce anything. Symbian announced. Nokia is Nokia, Symbian is Symbian. Apple doesn't announce that Google Maps went out of beta and Nokia doesn't announce that Symbian is doing platform for app stores.
What on earth would Nokia do with Palm? Nothing. Nokia already has Symbian & Maemo & Qt.
I guess gaining market share in Q2 is now "losing ground". Yes, they have lost market share when compared to 2005 or so, but this is business and it's normal that you have ups and downs.
Link me one real review saying this. And no, Gizmodo is a no-go.
And here it is: wasn't the whole thing about iPhone the fact that it's not the hardware that matters?
Anyone who knows Symbian OS also knows that it is kind of perfect OS for mobile phones because during all years it has become very, very efficient OS. No other OS can match Symbian when it comes to power efficiency. That is why Nokia can put "old" CPU to their flagship Symbian device.
So, Engadget is also familiar to you. And the rest of the quote is just unfair: I believe you do know why. You're not lying, congrats. Selective truth ftw.
And most of the reviews are actually saying that the position of the space key is actually very good. It is not usually there but it's actually easy to learn and very handy.
Oh dear. Symbian is old yes, it has its cons. Lots of people say that Nokia should abandon Symbian. The truth is: those people have evidently no idea of whatsoever what actually is Symbian and what is the problem atm. The "problem" is GUI: s60 and Symbian underneath it is perfectly fine. And I believe that when next major releases of Symbian come out (Symbian^*) the UI is revamped.
Hints of Nokia using Android are as stupid as hints of Apple using Windows Mobile.
This "some other Linux based system" is Maemo, which is nothing new. The fact that next release of Maemo will have support for actually calling without VOIP is a new thing. This first next-gen Maemo device is probably announced in early September @ Nokia World.
I wish you would read too. And with reviews I actually mean reviews (so nothing from Gizmodo, Engadget, etc.). There are actually very high-quality mobile sites throughout the net. Like mobile-review etc.
The numbers do show that iPhones are used a lot in Web. But did you even once think where the numbers are from and how are they collected? For an example Market Share by Net Applications is well known to be skewed towards US, they have self admitted it. Please don't trust statistics if you don't know anything about the background. I've studied quantitative research and the main thing to know is: don't trust numbers if you don't have all the research material available. And after that is still requires huge amount of analysis to be sure that you can actually try to use gathered information in program like SPSS.
They are not looking at Android. They have been developing Linux (X.org, Maemo, Mozilla, Webkit, etc.) in the past and today with even bigger resources, but Nokia will never, never release an Android device. Android isn't really even genuine Linux (only the kernel). Of course Nokia R&D are probably doing lots of things and analyzing all available OS's.
S60 is doomed. Symbian is nowhere near.
N97 wasn't even launched globally until July. Only few countries like US got it in Q2 (quite significant change actually for Nokia to start from North America). The reason why Nokia smartphone numbers didn't slide is called the Nokia E-series and Nokia 5800 ExpressMusic.
You do realize that pretty much everywhere else (outside North America) the N97 is available for free? You can buy it without contract or get it subsidized with big variety of contracts.
N97 has been available for couple of weeks in the UK.
iPhone quite some time.
And finally we get to this great piece of journalism. This "report" is actually sad. It's not sad because it thinks that Nokia is "doomed" but because it's full of proof about the author and authors "knowledge".
No it is not. And you saying things like that is just sad. People, please read the articles you're commenting.
First of all: "they". Mr. Tomi Ahonen is one man.
Second thing: he is not a Nokia supporter as you mean it. People who know the industry know also Tomi Ahonen. Apparently you do not know the mobile industry. That kind of sums up the whole thread...
Perhaps you want to try to take a look at this: http://www.tomiahonen.com/biotomi.htm
And after that you should really read the article by Mr. Ahonen. From the start to the end. It's excellent piece and without any bias.
That link did have excellent and well-thought article with lots of good stuff (including few arguments against Forbes' piece).
False. I already talked about this. Look up.
And this why, frankly, my dear melgross, I don't think you should be commenting in a thread which is about mobile technology or Nokia. You may know your stuff around Apple, but as we know Apple isn't the whole industry, no matter how great company it is.
YIPES !!!!!!!!!!!
ROFLMAOWACHFTVIMNP = Rolling on floor laughing my ass off with a cerebral hemorrhage from the vein in my neck popping.
Link me one real review saying this. And no, Gizmodo is a no-go.
First of all, I'm not going to respond to your remarks about the AI article because your post is already much too fractionated. Please try to not respond to every sentence individually. Thank you.
Now, you have no right to dismiss reviews that you don't like, from publications that you don't like. I might as well dismiss reviews from those you do like, that say what you want them to say. Your attitude makes no sense. These pubications' reviews are as good, or even better than some of the ones you might like. And you didn't bother to link to any reviews at all to counter them.
http://www.infosyncworld.com/reviews...n97/10344.html
http://www.boygeniusreport.com/2009/...ia-n97-review/
http://reviews.cnet.com/smartphones/...-33421200.html
http://www.livemint.com/2009/06/1922...Nokia-N97.html
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2350137,00.asp
These are just a few from the top of the saved pages list of N97 reviews I have. It's an unbiased listing for you. I didn't even link to the ones you don't like.
And here it is: wasn't the whole thing about iPhone the fact that it's not the hardware that matters?
Anyone who knows Symbian OS also knows that it is kind of perfect OS for mobile phones because during all years it has become very, very efficient OS. No other OS can match Symbian when it comes to power efficiency. That is why Nokia can put "old" CPU to their flagship Symbian device.
It's both. But why would Nokia use an older processor that Apple abandoned? A lot of people are questioning that move.
So, Engadget is also familiar to you. And the rest of the quote is just unfair: I believe you do know why. You're not lying, congrats. Selective truth ftw.
It's not unfair. You just don't like it. If I quoted something you did like, you wouldn't have said that it was unfair, you would have used it to support your own views.
And most of the reviews are actually saying that the position of the space key is actually very good. It is not usually there but it's actually easy to learn and very handy.
I haven't read that. The best I've seen is that people were, in some cases, surprised that the odd location wasn't a problem for them. But others found it to be a problem.
Oh dear. Symbian is old yes, it has its cons. Lots of people say that Nokia should abandon Symbian. The truth is: those people have evidently no idea of whatsoever what actually is Symbian and what is the problem atm. The "problem" is GUI: s60 and Symbian underneath it is perfectly fine. And I believe that when next major releases of Symbian come out (Symbian^*) the UI is revamped.
This again is your opinion. Most other opinions disagree. You claim to have "special" knowledge that others don't, and so can see more clearly?
Hints of Nokia using Android are as stupid as hints of Apple using Windows Mobile.
This "some other Linux based system" is Maemo, which is nothing new. The fact that next release of Maemo will have support for actually calling without VOIP is a new thing. This first next-gen Maemo device is probably announced in early September @ Nokia World.
I do think the idea of them using Win Mobile is farfetched. Android isn't as farfetched. Maemo isn't something that is anywhere near ready. It's a cypher right now.
I wish you would read too. And with reviews I actually mean reviews (so nothing from Gizmodo, Engadget, etc.). There are actually very high-quality mobile sites throughout the net. Like mobile-review etc.
I've read over ten reviews so far. Some from phone sites. I've not seen one review where the phone is thought to be the equal of the 3GS in any way, or, for that matter, the Pre, as far as the OS goes.
Here's a review from a well respected PHONE site. Since the review isn't five stars, you will probably say that the site isn't very good.
http://www.phonescoop.com/articles/article.php?a=284
The numbers do show that iPhones are used a lot in Web. But did you even once think where the numbers are from and how are they collected? For an example Market Share by Net Applications is well known to be skewed towards US, they have self admitted it. Please don't trust statistics if you don't know anything about the background. I've studied quantitative research and the main thing to know is: don't trust numbers if you don't have all the research material available. And after that is still requires huge amount of analysis to be sure that you can actually try to use gathered information in program like SPSS.
Oh please! You just want the facts to go your way. They don't. Just give it up. If the facts had shown otherwise, you would be quoting them.
They are not looking at Android. They have been developing Linux (X.org, Maemo, Mozilla, Webkit, etc.) in the past and today with even bigger resources, but Nokia will never, never release an Android device. Android isn't really even genuine Linux (only the kernel). Of course Nokia R&D are probably doing lots of things and analyzing all available OS's.
I'm just reporting what I've read in a few places. I'm not saying it will happen. Nokia denies it. Maybe that means something, and maybe it doesn't.
S60 is doomed. Symbian is nowhere near.
That's your opinion.
N97 wasn't even launched globally until July. Only few countries like US got it in Q2 (quite significant change actually for Nokia to start from North America). The reason why Nokia smartphone numbers didn't slide is called the Nokia E-series and Nokia 5800 ExpressMusic.
The 5800 numbers are good, but not what they were in the beginning, which isn't unusual. No phone does as well months later. But the Nokia sold 500,000 N97's in the month it's been out. Or at least they shipped that number to distributers, as that's the way most companies count sales.
You do realize that pretty much everywhere else (outside North America) the N97 is available for free? You can buy it without contract or get it subsidized with big variety of contracts.
Yes. The subsidies are high. but you're paying for it through your contract. But as people from Europe always delight in telling us, they like buying their phones, and they have so many of them.
N97 has been available for couple of weeks in the UK.
iPhone quite some time.
I started seeing iPhones in New York right after they want on sale two years ago.
And finally we get to this great piece of journalism. This "report" is actually sad. It's not sad because it thinks that Nokia is "doomed" but because it's full of proof about the author and authors "knowledge".
It's only sad to Nokia fans. There are several more that say about the same thing. I posted one from Bloomberg.
I know the "Motorola moment" hasn't gone down well with Nokia people, but it's just an expression. It shouldn't frighten you so.
No it is not. And you saying things like that is just sad. People, please read the articles you're commenting.
First of all: "they". Mr. Tomi Ahonen is one man.
Second thing: he is not a Nokia supporter as you mean it. People who know the industry know also Tomi Ahonen. Apparently you do not know the mobile industry. That kind of sums up the whole thread...
Really? Could have fooled me. Why don't you explain then, as you seen to be saying that you know the industry.
Perhaps you want to try to take a look at this: http://www.tomiahonen.com/biotomi.htm
And after that you should really read the article by Mr. Ahonen. From the start to the end. It's excellent piece and without any bias.
False. I already talked about this. Look up.
And this why, frankly, my dear melgross, I don't think you should be commenting in a thread which is about mobile technology or Nokia. You may know your stuff around Apple, but as we know Apple isn't the whole industry, no matter how great company it is.
I read his bio. He's done a lot of work for Nokia, hasn't he? The only phone MANUFACTURER he's worked for. Isn't that coincidental?
Perhaps you shouldn't be commenting here, as you haven't contributed anything new.
The only link supports the concept that this guy is a Nokia supporter. If fact, it supports the view that he's protecting his business interests.
You haven't bothered to give any other links to articles that say the opposite to what every article in financial publications, phone publications, and computer publications have been saying; Nokia is in trouble.
You also haven't provided links to the reviews you like so much.
Please do both, and then my dear Eric, we can have a more realistic, and balanced view.