Key Apple retail exec now shaping Microsoft stores

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  • Reply 61 of 136
    tbelltbell Posts: 3,146member
    Except apparently for ideas.





    Quote:
    Originally Posted by iPhone1982 View Post


    Microsoft doesn't need Apple for anything.



  • Reply 62 of 136
    tbelltbell Posts: 3,146member
    Very true. Microsoft was essentially handed an already entrenched PC market and it had one major piece of luck: namely IBM foolishly agreed to license DOS from Microsoft other then insisting on buying it outright. IBM didn't see that one day other companies would manufacture the PC other then itself and that the operating system would become more important. By the time it did, it was too late.



    IBM to businesses was computing. Once IBM put it's stamp of approval on Microsoft, Microsoft couldn't fail. Businesses and governments invested big bucks on IBM PCs and related software. They weren't dumping that for untested options from a new company like Apple even if the product was better. Further, big business doesn't like to tools that are already paid for without a significant justification for doing so. It isn't cost effective. At my job, we are using Windows XP running Office 2003.



    Interestingly enough, however, Apple is making dents in Microsoft's wall. I am starting to see Macs in places I never would have thought before. For instance, I am an attorney, and more and more attorneys are using them. Warms my heart.





    I think Office is also becoming less relevant. I use it because I got it for like $30 at my former University. I, however, mostly print to PDF and share documents that way. So, using many other various options is a real option.







    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    A major reason was because for several years, Pc's were IBM Pc's, and companies had IBM mainframes and mini's. IBM had, and has a very large sales force. Companies bought these IBM Pc's ( "Nobody gets fired for buying IBM" was the phrase back then.), and people bought for themselves what they used at work, because that was what they were trained in. Businesses also gave Employees discounts on hardware and software, and often gave them software for free, all to better their use of the equipment at work.



    As a result, most people used Pc's. This continued after IBM lost control, because at that time, a Pc was a Pc.



    Mac's were not Pc's and so were out of the loop for most, especially after 1996, when companies that had Macs in large numbers began divesting themselves of them. But that's another story.



  • Reply 63 of 136
    aaarrrggghaaarrrgggh Posts: 1,609member
    Microsoft needs to learn from Sony's flagship store failures before they try to learn from Apple's successes. Advertising is one thing, but you have to figure out a way to make money with it. The stores have to extend your image in a practical way.



    That doesn't quite go along with Microsoft's support strategy...
  • Reply 64 of 136
    As an AAPL shareholder, I love reading that MSFT is copying Apple's moves. They will be forever playing catchup if they continue down this path. Meanwhile, Apple will forever enjoy being first to market with 'the latest cool thing'.



    What sets Apple apart is that they dare to be different. They work to delight their customer's by anticipating (or even creating) their customer's needs. They don't blindly copy someone else's moves or react to the demands of clueless market analysts.



    I hope Microsoft opens a sh!tload of retail stores. They could arrange all the various PC manufacturers boxes by color; or by size; or by price. I'm sure they can find some way to avoid the place looking like a dog's breakfast.



    Regards,

    %$#@!
  • Reply 65 of 136
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,579member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by iPhone1982 View Post


    Edit.

    It doesn't matter if it was your article. You backed it up with nothing from a credible source and kept quoting the Apple Sheep.



    How about a Wired Magazine article from July 15th with the quote.



    http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2009/...ext-to-apples/



    "It’s unclear whether the Microsoft stores will be selling strictly Microsoft hardware (e.g., the Zune or Xbox 360) and software, or whether it will also be selling products from third-party companies. In the past, Microsoft has said the purpose of the stores was to build the company’s brand name by connecting with customers."



    The word is still out on exactly what they'll be doing there. While I'll give you that they'll apparently be selling their OS, and possibly Office and a few other pieces of their software, possibly the Xbox. Other than that, no one knows what they'll be doing. In the past, they did say that they wouldn't be using these to sell, but in one or two areas, they seem to have changed their minds.



    But this article from the WSJ, it seems as though they still don't know if they will be selling third party hardware, as I said;



    Quote:

    One of Mr. Porter's tasks will be to figure out whether to actually sell computers rather than merely show off their features. Any decision that favored some PC makers and left others off store shelves could anger some hardware partners.



    Stephen Baker, an analyst at NPD Group Inc., which tracks retailers, said Apple doesn't face the dilemmas Microsoft will in the retail business because Apple makes the hardware and software for its products. "That's going to be a big challenge for Microsoft," Mr. Baker said.



    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123448293075579777.html



    Quote:

    The other obvious "CLUE" was the woman had a shopping cart. What the heck is she going to put in the shopping cart?



    In other words YOU READ APPLE SITES AND MADE YOUR OWN CONCLUSION.



    awaiting an apology...



    That wasn't a clue. it was a picture designed to conjure some reaction from people. MS hasn't even finalized what the stores will look like. They are still testing the concept,if you read the article, you'll see that.



    The fact that you didn't understand my first post is grating on you, isn't it? You're taking this WAY too seriously.
  • Reply 66 of 136
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TBell View Post


    Except apparently for ideas.



    Considering 30 years have passed and Apple Users Hate Window OS & Server Software and everything Microsoft has done on the Notebook, Desktop & Server arena and Apple is still at 8% market share in the US and not even on the charts in the rest of the World I'd say their own ideas are working just fine.



    Apple has a phone and a music player. They should expand on that. The gaming industry is huge in the under 20 year old market.



    OK. I forgot. They have the AppleTV and a 1 button mouse.
  • Reply 67 of 136
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,579member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by hobBIT View Post


    But isn't that exactly what would happen if they don't sell anything? Why would people then go to the MS 'store'?



    But I hear what you're saying. You can only report what MS says.

    Yet MS isn't stupid. They're not burning money for nothing.

    So they must have a plan.



    And I can see 2 elements:

    - selling support

    - selling software on-demand



    One of the biggest magnets in Apple Stores is the Genius bar, as well as the new One-on-One training.

    People know they can go to the Apple Store and get help and support in a reasonable turnaround time. That's really reassuring to retail customers.



    With Windows support it's currently not as easy. Corporations have their own support systems, but Joe Shmo has no one. Getting help in a Microsoft Store might seem more trustworthy than picking a random number from the yellow pages...





    And the stores could be about selling software, movies and songs.

    A massive 'try before you buy' setup could actually be tempting. Especially with the huge amount of PC software available.

    Providing a 'real' AppStore Microsoft can always claim that they're not selling these things, that they're merely offering people a chance to try/see/listen before they buy.



    Whether customers buy via CD/DVD burn-on-demand in the store, or via electronic download or someplace else altogether, Microsoft might not care.

    At least they got people lured into the store and can now show them their brand new Zune and XBox hardware.



    Well, after reading more than recent twenty articles about this (as opposed to using info from the older ones I remembered), it seems as though the latest consensus, which I see is rather different from the ones back in February when they first announced this, is that they will likely be selling Windows, Office, a few other of their programs, and maybe the Zune and the XBox. Whether they'll be selling any third party goods is not known yet.



    But my argument still stands. If they don't do very well at this, it will be seen as a failure.



    I don't know why they even want to try.



    It looks lately as though they just want to copy whatever Apple does when their own plans go awry.



    This started in a big way when "Plays For Sure" failed.
  • Reply 68 of 136
    nikon133nikon133 Posts: 2,600member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Fast Fred 1 View Post


    Exactly how big of a store do you need to sell what they have?

    They got......and OS CD and a Office CD and a Mp3 player.

    I think it's a dum. Maybe Apple planted George to screw um up. Haha

    Wouldn't that be rich!



    They also happened to have XBox, games, non-Microsoft software for Windows, peripherals (keyboards, mice, joypads, steering wheels, webcams)... and they can offer desktops and notebooks using their software and hardware. Then, programmable toys like Lego Mindstorm, video games related toys (Halo, Devil May Cry action figures etc)



    Thinking of it, they can offer anything designed for Windows - even competitors' peripherals (like Logitech keyboards and other stuff), components for enthusiast-built rigs... you name it.



    One thing I am not afraid of is that their shelves will be half-empty. Is it all going to be presented in the best possible and most inspiring way, well, that is whole another question.
  • Reply 69 of 136
    ivladivlad Posts: 742member
    OMG Micro$oft should name their new store "Bing"
  • Reply 70 of 136
    tbelltbell Posts: 3,146member
    That used to be true. However, that was because Mac users wanted compatibility with Office's Windows cousin. Microsoft then foolishly went and broke compatibility in Office 2008. As such, I really don't need Office anymore, I just use it because I have a real cheap copy and I am accustomed to it. In truth, Word Perfect is a better suite.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by iPhone1982 View Post


    Apple "needs Microsoft" for Microsoft Office.



  • Reply 71 of 136
    docno42docno42 Posts: 3,758member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by iPhone1982 View Post


    Apple is still at 8% market share in the US and not even on the charts in the rest of the World I'd say their own ideas are working just fine.



    Look at Apples market cap for 8% market share. Look at the impact they have had on the industry.



    Not bad. There's more to life then just volume - not that I would expect someone like yourself to understand such subtleties.



    The thing is, you can remain focused on market share and they will continue to siphon off the cream and leave the crap scraps for the rest of the industry. Race to the bottom, boys!
  • Reply 72 of 136
    [QUOTE=melgross;1451705]
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by iPhone1982 View Post


    ...



    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123448293075579777.html







    That wasn't a clue. it was a picture designed to conjure some reaction from people. MS hasn't even finalized what the stores will look like. They are still testing the concept,if you read the article, you'll see that.



    The fact that you didn't understand my first post is grating on you, isn't it?



    The date of your article that took you so long to come up with was from February 13th, 2009. I would expect that they have a bit more worked out with their partners and after an entire Quarter (4 months) they obviously had more to release to Wired than the article you posted.



    Take an example. Apple has a 3G phone that has been out for almost a year.



    Apple has done a few things in the past 4 months and so has Apple.



    At least post a relevant up-to-date article to back up your posting.



    I know not a lot has happened in the tech industry in the last 4 months but it would be nice to read current material backing up the Lame article posted that has no journalistic ethics.



    By the way... Yes, I understood the article & have posted relevant information to make the article nothing more than an irellivant posting by a rumor site looking for hits.



    Until you can post something from July of this year it's still the same dribbling article with no merit.



    And there is still a shopping cart in their photo that was released in this quarter (as in recently).
  • Reply 73 of 136
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,579member
    [QUOTE=iPhone1982;1451713]
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post




    The date of your article that took you so long to come up with was from February 13th, 2009. I would expect that they have a bit more worked out with their partners and after an entire Quarter (4 months) they obviously had more to release to Wired than the article you posted.



    Take an example. Apple has a 3G phone that has been out for almost a year.



    Apple has done a few things in the past 4 months and so has Apple.



    At least post a relevant up-to-date article to back up your posting.



    I know not a lot has happened in the tech industry in the last 4 months but it would be nice to read current material backing up the Lame article posted that has no journalistic ethics.



    By the way... Yes, I understood the article & have posted relevant information to make the article nothing more than an irellivant posting by a rumor site looking for hits.



    Until you can post something from July of this year it's still the same dribbling article with no merit.



    You need an attitude adjustment, and quick.



    Disagreements are fine, but not your dismissive way of phrasing it.
  • Reply 74 of 136
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by DocNo42 View Post


    Look at Apples market cap for 8% market share. Look at the impact they have had on the industry.



    Not bad. There's more to life then just volume - not that I would expect someone like yourself to understand such subtleties.



    The thing is, you can remain focused on market share and they will continue to siphon off the cream and leave the crap scraps for the rest of the industry. Race to the bottom, boys!



    It's only good for Apple. It does nothing for you unless you are a shareholder in Apple.



    Other than that you'd be a cheer leader for Apple that doesn't get paid.
  • Reply 75 of 136
    [QUOTE=melgross;1451715]
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by iPhone1982 View Post




    You need an attitude adjustment, and quick.



    Disagreements are fine, but not your dismissive way of phrasing it.



    Was anything I said not true or backed up with a relevant article that was current?



    You need the attitude adjustment because you can't admit this article or your arguemnet has no merit.
  • Reply 76 of 136
    virgil-tb2virgil-tb2 Posts: 1,416member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by iPhone1982 View Post


    ... Microsoft sells their OS and Server software to the World's Banks, Governments, Businesses and consumer users. Their software alone is reason enough to have a store. ....



    This sounds like total nonsense to me. You don't know what you're talking about.



    Stores are for the end consumer, Microsoft's main customers are businesses, not consumers. In consumer software, Microsoft has a small handful of products of which only two (Windows and Office) make up more than 90% of it's sales. The only hardware they have is mice and keyboards.



    I think it's totally fair to say Microsoft "doesn't have product" for retail.



    I'm thinking the only way this will work at all really is if they con their hardware partners into paying for the stores and then sell those third party products. In other words, the computer section of any Staples store, but jazzed up a bit.



    The margins will be razor thin and the location of the stores (next to Apple stores), poor for the product they are selling. They will have to spend far more than they want to on sales staff and free junk and jazzing everything up just to compete and that will destroy whatever margin they can eke out.



    These stores will not make a profit and will be for show only. Microsoft says as much itself in their own releases about this project.



    What's the point of doing that and how long can they spend that money? Unless there is only one or two stores, I don't see how this will last very long at all.
  • Reply 77 of 136
    docno42docno42 Posts: 3,758member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by iPhone1982 View Post


    Other than that you'd be a cheer leader for Apple that doesn't get paid.



    My, a little bitter and myopic, aren't we?



    If Apple is successful then they can continue to do what they do best - create products that focus on the end user experience - in such a way that I (and millions of others) will continue to want to use them.



    That's all. If I'm a "cheer leader for Apple" because they make products worth cheering for. As soon as they stop, so will I.
  • Reply 78 of 136
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Virgil-TB2 View Post


    This sounds like total nonsense to me. You don't know what you're talking about.



    Stores are for the end consumer, Microsoft's main customers are businesses, not consumers....



    The margins will be razor thin and the location of the stores (next to Apple stores), poor for the product they are selling. They will have to spend far more than they want to on sales staff and free junk and jazzing everything up just to compete and that will destroy whatever margin they can eke out.



    Microsoft's OS margins are not even close to paper thin. They make a very good margin on it.



    92% Market Share means an aweful lot of consumer computers.



    If they use the stores to sell computers and software they get a margin on every computer sold which will have Windows 7 on it. I see it as more of the big picture, maintaining OS market share while getting paid by their vendors to pay the rent as well as getting people to migrate from Win XP.



    Now that's a marketing plan that makes sense.
  • Reply 79 of 136
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,579member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by iPhone1982 View Post


    Microsoft's OS margins are not even close to paper thin. They make a very good margin on it.



    92% Market Share means an aweful lot of consumer computers.



    If they use the stores to sell computers and software they get a margin on every computer sold which will have Windows 7 on it. I see it as more of the big picture, maintaining OS market share while getting paid by their vendors to pay the rent as well as getting people to migrate from Win XP.



    Now that's a marketing plan that makes sense.



    83% of new PC's had Windows installed last year;



    Quote:

    Microsoft's problem: Windows is by far the most-used PC operating system. Last year, 83% of new PCs sold had Windows built in.



    http://money.cnn.com/2009/06/12/tech...ales/index.htm



    But how much difference can it really make? They've said that they plan to open a "few stores". Likely they'll access how it's going before spending more money.



    But what's their purpose here? Do they really see Apple as taking so many people away that they need to spend what could become hundreds of millions on a serious effort?



    Most people don't upgrade their OS's. Or at least they haven't done so in the past. Most people just buy a new machine when theirs get too old. Retail sales of Windows is small compared to the number of new PC's sold.



    Quote:

    It’s difficult to extrapolate what the deferred revenue figures suggest about overall demand for Windows 7. Deferred revenue projections provided by the company largely reflect retail sales, a relatively small portion of total Windows sales. Microsoft doesn’t disclose what percentage of Windows revenue comes from retail, but analysts say sales through original equipment manufacturers are the overwhelming majority



    http://marshallweinberg.com/wordpress/?p=290



    This is old news. It's always been true.
  • Reply 80 of 136
    jbelkinjbelkin Posts: 74member
    MS is a fine enterprise, OS & server company ... they have lost $50 billion in every venture since 1998? And yet shareholders don't have a problem with YET another new division that, "won't necessarily recoup its investment through actual sales."



    Why kind of capitalism do they practice again?



    For us - another nail in MS' coffin ...



    For shareholders?
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