Well countering one fanboy argument with anouther... just encourages more fanboys!
Apple's market cap is not larger than Microsoft's and Microsoft is still making a ton of money.
Oops, my bad.
Apples market-cap is fourth behind MS I guess. But they are approaching Google.
And market-cap means a lot more than you think it does. For one, it correlates with the scale of your business. Apple is a LOT bigger than you realize. It is not this small underdog. It's huge.
second, Apple DOES have quite a bit more money in the bank than MS.
Third, MS is making tons of money, but they are losing MORE than they are making. that is really really bad. Losing money is new for MS. And it is showing that being "good enough" just isn't good enough anymore. The suckers born every minute that MS is used to conning are now being born every two minutes.
Until MS gets serious about making extremely high quality software and selling at proper price points, this will continue to happen and they will be in danger of bankruptcy if they are not careful. Apple has shown people what its like to have good stuff. Once you go Mac, you don't go back.
Apples market-cap is fourth behind MS I guess. But they are approaching Google.
And market-cap means a lot more than you think it does. For one, it correlates with the scale of your business. Apple is a LOT bigger than you realize. It is not this small underdog. It's huge.
second, Apple DOES have quite a bit more money in the bank than MS.
Third, MS is making tons of money, but they are losing MORE than they are making. that is really really bad. Losing money is new for MS. And it is showing that being "good enough" just isn't good enough anymore. The suckers born every minute that MS is used to conning are now being born every two minutes.
Until MS gets serious about making extremely high quality software and selling at proper price points, this will continue to happen and they will be in danger of bankruptcy if they are not careful. Apple has shown people what its like to have good stuff. Once you go Mac, you don't go back.
I believe Apple is now worth more than Google. I thik they were worth more then Google last year as well, if I'm not mistaken
And market-cap means a lot more than you think it does. For one, it correlates with the scale of your business. Apple is a LOT bigger than you realize. It is not this small underdog. It's huge.
Why are you telling me this? I am fully aware of the financial details. You are the one that got the figures wrong. Remember?
Quote:
Third, MS is making tons of money, but they are losing MORE than they are making. that is really really bad.
Microsoft reported revenue of $13.1 billion
Operating income: $3.99 billion
Net income: $3.05 billion
.
Quote:
Until MS gets serious about making extremely high quality software and selling at proper price points, this will continue to happen and they will be in danger of bankruptcy if they are not careful.
Not sure why you are posting in this thread. Get your facts straight.
Once accustomed to ever-rising profits, Microsoft has been dealt two blows with both its second quarter of losses in a row and its first-ever annual decline, all at the same time as Apple has had its best non-holiday quarter yet.
The Redmond, Washington company told investors on Thursday that its spring quarter sales shrank 17 percent compared to a year ago, down to $13.1 billion, and pinned most of the shortfall on a perilous drop in sales for its Client division, which produces the Windows operating system and forms the backbone of its business. Revenue for that group fell an unprecedented 28.7 percent to just over $3.1 billion and was hit directly by slower sales of regular and server PCs; Microsoft estimates these have fallen 5 to 7 percent compared to where they were a year ago.
Other divisions also took a hit, including a 25 percent blow to the Entertainment and Devices group that handles both the Xbox and Zune as well as in Microsoft's server software, online and business segments.
Unsurprisingly, Microsoft chief operating officer Kevin Turner associated the decline with "challenges" in the current economic climate. However, the result caps off a particularly disastrous year for the company. Just last quarter, the software's developer revenue had declined 6 percent after years of steady gains and management felt forced to cut 5,000 jobs. Either of these were previously extremely rare occurrences, but the second negative quarter was enough to tip Microsoft into the red for its complete fiscal year ended in June -- a fate unheard of in the 23 years since the company first went public and began reporting its results.
Although eager to show that its performance might turn around soon, pointing out $750 million in cost-cutting and the fall releases of Windows 7 and Windows Server 2008 R2, Microsoft's results stand in stark contrast to Apple's. The Mac maker on Tuesday reported its best non-holiday quarter in history after posting record revenue and said its profits alone had grown 15 percent as two of the three pillars of its business performed above expectations. Moreover, Microsoft's willingness to provide an overview of the PC industry has inadvertently confirmed Apple bucking a wider downward trend. Mac sales increased 4 percent this quarter versus spring 2008 and may have Apple gaining almost as much percentage-wise as the predominantly Windows-led market will have lost.
Having to recognize a second straight quarter of declining fortunes additionally underscores an increasing sense of urgency at Microsoft, whose reputation has been hurt by real and imagined flaws in Windows Vista. In the past several months, it has resorted to price-oriented ads that attack supposedly inflated Mac prices but de-emphasizing Windows itself. The ads themselves were at least somewhat neutered by a round of price cuts and system upgrades to MacBook Pros that rendered many of the arguments invalid or muted.
And while COO Turner has tried to claim that the ads were effective by noting Apple's request they be pulled, substantially reduced Windows sales and the ensuing fall in Microsoft's bottom line have together revealed the TV spots doing little, if anything, to prevent customers from buying Macs in greater numbers.
As more and more people realize that they don't have to deal with the absolute steaming pile of cow manure that is everything created by Micro$oft then their profits will decline even more. Let the CEO keep thinking it was all due to the economy.
.... your article makes it sound like MS hemorrhaging money and in the red for fiscal 2009. They made over 14 BILLION dollars in gross profit. analyst might not like seeing a decrease in profits but their business isn't anywhere near hurting yet.
.... your article makes it sound like MS hemorrhaging money and in the red for fiscal 2009. They made over 14 BILLION dollars in gross profit.
I agree the article is misleading... but it does contain correct figures. I am not sure where you are getting your figures from. Microsoft earned $13.1 Billion in income. That is not profit.
I think a little clarification is needed about Microsoft's recent downturn. Some of the Apple fanboys are getting a little over excited. These figures were not unexpected. With around 90% of the computer OS market their income is pretty much tied to the number of Pcs sold each quarter. In the middle of a recession, it doesn't matter how good Microsoft's products are... or how much advertising they put out, you cant' force people to buy new computers if they can't afford them.
Less computers sold = less income for Microsoft.
It's slightly different for Apple. Even in a shrinking market Apple's Mac business has a little room to grow. Apple also has the benefit of a brand new, growing business with the iPhone.
It's slightly different for Apple. Even in a shrinking market Apple's Mac business has a little room to grow. Apple also has the benefit of a brand new, growing business with the iPhone.
True, but why minimize the importance of this difference? For years and years we've been hearing about how Apple had to mimic Microsoft if they were ever going to be successful, or even survive, depending on who was telling it. By now we should know how untrue this is. In fact, Apple's business model is more robust. Microsoft's livelihood is tied to the ups and downs of the PC market, which is why they were performing like gangbusters during the '80s and '90s, when PC sales were increasing in double-digits annually. When that was no longer happening, Microsoft struggled to find new sources of growth. In what I would term a desperate effort to find new sources of growth, they bankrolled projects like Xbox and Zune, which lost money. Apple OTOH has a talent for developing new sources of growth which actually succeed in making profits grow, right out of the box. This is no small difference.
This is not to say that Microsoft is anywhere close to being in trouble. They are still very profitable, and their revenues are massive. But by all appearances, their years of big growth are over. They just don't seem to know how to create new growth opportunities. You can't overstate that difference between the companies. It jumps right out at you.
True, but why minimize the importance of this difference? For years and years we've been hearing about how Apple had to mimic Microsoft if they were ever going to be successful, or even survive, depending on who was telling it. By now we should know how untrue this is. In fact, Apple's business model is more robust. Microsoft's livelihood is tied to the ups and downs of the PC market, which is why they were performing like gangbusters during the '80s and '90s, when PC sales were increasing in double-digits annually. When that was no longer happening, Microsoft struggled to find new sources of growth. In what I would term a desperate effort to find new sources of growth, they bankrolled projects like Xbox and Zune, which lost money. Apple OTOH has a talent for developing new sources of growth which actually succeed in making profits grow, right out of the box. This is no small difference.
This is not to say that Microsoft is anywhere close to being in trouble. They are still very profitable, and their revenues are massive. But by all appearances, their years of big growth are over. They just don't seem to know how to create new growth opportunities. You can't overstate that difference between the companies. It jumps right out at you.
Dr M, I must admit I am a little curious why you keep responding to my posts and reading things into them... that simple aren't there.
I pretty much agree with everything in your last post. Indeed if Apple launches this rumoured "iTablet", and it is moderately successful... and other companies follow suit (Google Nokia?)... then the shift away from conventional laptops could follow the trend of the drop in desktops. If Microsoft cannot compete then there could be a real and dramatic erosion of there Windows cash cow. However that is not really the crux of this post.
My only contributions to this thread, so far, have been to try and correct the laughable claims of two over zealous fanboys. One claiming that Microsoft is running at a loss. The other claiming that Microsoft is making a billion dollars profit a month.
Sorry again I guess. When you said the situation for Apple is "slightly different," I took you literally. I believe it's a night and day difference, probably a much bigger difference than most people appreciate. Hence, my post.
Comments
Well countering one fanboy argument with anouther... just encourages more fanboys!
Apple's market cap is not larger than Microsoft's and Microsoft is still making a ton of money.
Oops, my bad.
Apples market-cap is fourth behind MS I guess. But they are approaching Google.
And market-cap means a lot more than you think it does. For one, it correlates with the scale of your business. Apple is a LOT bigger than you realize. It is not this small underdog. It's huge.
second, Apple DOES have quite a bit more money in the bank than MS.
Third, MS is making tons of money, but they are losing MORE than they are making. that is really really bad. Losing money is new for MS. And it is showing that being "good enough" just isn't good enough anymore. The suckers born every minute that MS is used to conning are now being born every two minutes.
Until MS gets serious about making extremely high quality software and selling at proper price points, this will continue to happen and they will be in danger of bankruptcy if they are not careful. Apple has shown people what its like to have good stuff. Once you go Mac, you don't go back.
Oops, my bad.
Apples market-cap is fourth behind MS I guess. But they are approaching Google.
And market-cap means a lot more than you think it does. For one, it correlates with the scale of your business. Apple is a LOT bigger than you realize. It is not this small underdog. It's huge.
second, Apple DOES have quite a bit more money in the bank than MS.
Third, MS is making tons of money, but they are losing MORE than they are making. that is really really bad. Losing money is new for MS. And it is showing that being "good enough" just isn't good enough anymore. The suckers born every minute that MS is used to conning are now being born every two minutes.
Until MS gets serious about making extremely high quality software and selling at proper price points, this will continue to happen and they will be in danger of bankruptcy if they are not careful. Apple has shown people what its like to have good stuff. Once you go Mac, you don't go back.
I believe Apple is now worth more than Google. I thik they were worth more then Google last year as well, if I'm not mistaken
And market-cap means a lot more than you think it does. For one, it correlates with the scale of your business. Apple is a LOT bigger than you realize. It is not this small underdog. It's huge.
Why are you telling me this? I am fully aware of the financial details. You are the one that got the figures wrong. Remember?
Third, MS is making tons of money, but they are losing MORE than they are making. that is really really bad.
Microsoft reported revenue of $13.1 billion
Operating income: $3.99 billion
Net income: $3.05 billion
.
Until MS gets serious about making extremely high quality software and selling at proper price points, this will continue to happen and they will be in danger of bankruptcy if they are not careful.
Not sure why you are posting in this thread. Get your facts straight.
Once accustomed to ever-rising profits, Microsoft has been dealt two blows with both its second quarter of losses in a row and its first-ever annual decline, all at the same time as Apple has had its best non-holiday quarter yet.
The Redmond, Washington company told investors on Thursday that its spring quarter sales shrank 17 percent compared to a year ago, down to $13.1 billion, and pinned most of the shortfall on a perilous drop in sales for its Client division, which produces the Windows operating system and forms the backbone of its business. Revenue for that group fell an unprecedented 28.7 percent to just over $3.1 billion and was hit directly by slower sales of regular and server PCs; Microsoft estimates these have fallen 5 to 7 percent compared to where they were a year ago.
Other divisions also took a hit, including a 25 percent blow to the Entertainment and Devices group that handles both the Xbox and Zune as well as in Microsoft's server software, online and business segments.
Unsurprisingly, Microsoft chief operating officer Kevin Turner associated the decline with "challenges" in the current economic climate. However, the result caps off a particularly disastrous year for the company. Just last quarter, the software's developer revenue had declined 6 percent after years of steady gains and management felt forced to cut 5,000 jobs. Either of these were previously extremely rare occurrences, but the second negative quarter was enough to tip Microsoft into the red for its complete fiscal year ended in June -- a fate unheard of in the 23 years since the company first went public and began reporting its results.
Although eager to show that its performance might turn around soon, pointing out $750 million in cost-cutting and the fall releases of Windows 7 and Windows Server 2008 R2, Microsoft's results stand in stark contrast to Apple's. The Mac maker on Tuesday reported its best non-holiday quarter in history after posting record revenue and said its profits alone had grown 15 percent as two of the three pillars of its business performed above expectations. Moreover, Microsoft's willingness to provide an overview of the PC industry has inadvertently confirmed Apple bucking a wider downward trend. Mac sales increased 4 percent this quarter versus spring 2008 and may have Apple gaining almost as much percentage-wise as the predominantly Windows-led market will have lost.
Having to recognize a second straight quarter of declining fortunes additionally underscores an increasing sense of urgency at Microsoft, whose reputation has been hurt by real and imagined flaws in Windows Vista. In the past several months, it has resorted to price-oriented ads that attack supposedly inflated Mac prices but de-emphasizing Windows itself. The ads themselves were at least somewhat neutered by a round of price cuts and system upgrades to MacBook Pros that rendered many of the arguments invalid or muted.
And while COO Turner has tried to claim that the ads were effective by noting Apple's request they be pulled, substantially reduced Windows sales and the ensuing fall in Microsoft's bottom line have together revealed the TV spots doing little, if anything, to prevent customers from buying Macs in greater numbers.
As more and more people realize that they don't have to deal with the absolute steaming pile of cow manure that is everything created by Micro$oft then their profits will decline even more. Let the CEO keep thinking it was all due to the economy.
edit:spelling
.... your article makes it sound like MS hemorrhaging money and in the red for fiscal 2009. They made over 14 BILLION dollars in gross profit.
I agree the article is misleading... but it does contain correct figures. I am not sure where you are getting your figures from. Microsoft earned $13.1 Billion in income. That is not profit.
I think a little clarification is needed about Microsoft's recent downturn. Some of the Apple fanboys are getting a little over excited. These figures were not unexpected. With around 90% of the computer OS market their income is pretty much tied to the number of Pcs sold each quarter. In the middle of a recession, it doesn't matter how good Microsoft's products are... or how much advertising they put out, you cant' force people to buy new computers if they can't afford them.
Less computers sold = less income for Microsoft.
It's slightly different for Apple. Even in a shrinking market Apple's Mac business has a little room to grow. Apple also has the benefit of a brand new, growing business with the iPhone.
It's slightly different for Apple. Even in a shrinking market Apple's Mac business has a little room to grow. Apple also has the benefit of a brand new, growing business with the iPhone.
True, but why minimize the importance of this difference? For years and years we've been hearing about how Apple had to mimic Microsoft if they were ever going to be successful, or even survive, depending on who was telling it. By now we should know how untrue this is. In fact, Apple's business model is more robust. Microsoft's livelihood is tied to the ups and downs of the PC market, which is why they were performing like gangbusters during the '80s and '90s, when PC sales were increasing in double-digits annually. When that was no longer happening, Microsoft struggled to find new sources of growth. In what I would term a desperate effort to find new sources of growth, they bankrolled projects like Xbox and Zune, which lost money. Apple OTOH has a talent for developing new sources of growth which actually succeed in making profits grow, right out of the box. This is no small difference.
This is not to say that Microsoft is anywhere close to being in trouble. They are still very profitable, and their revenues are massive. But by all appearances, their years of big growth are over. They just don't seem to know how to create new growth opportunities. You can't overstate that difference between the companies. It jumps right out at you.
True, but why minimize the importance of this difference? For years and years we've been hearing about how Apple had to mimic Microsoft if they were ever going to be successful, or even survive, depending on who was telling it. By now we should know how untrue this is. In fact, Apple's business model is more robust. Microsoft's livelihood is tied to the ups and downs of the PC market, which is why they were performing like gangbusters during the '80s and '90s, when PC sales were increasing in double-digits annually. When that was no longer happening, Microsoft struggled to find new sources of growth. In what I would term a desperate effort to find new sources of growth, they bankrolled projects like Xbox and Zune, which lost money. Apple OTOH has a talent for developing new sources of growth which actually succeed in making profits grow, right out of the box. This is no small difference.
This is not to say that Microsoft is anywhere close to being in trouble. They are still very profitable, and their revenues are massive. But by all appearances, their years of big growth are over. They just don't seem to know how to create new growth opportunities. You can't overstate that difference between the companies. It jumps right out at you.
Dr M, I must admit I am a little curious why you keep responding to my posts and reading things into them... that simple aren't there.
I pretty much agree with everything in your last post. Indeed if Apple launches this rumoured "iTablet", and it is moderately successful... and other companies follow suit (Google Nokia?)... then the shift away from conventional laptops could follow the trend of the drop in desktops. If Microsoft cannot compete then there could be a real and dramatic erosion of there Windows cash cow. However that is not really the crux of this post.
My only contributions to this thread, so far, have been to try and correct the laughable claims of two over zealous fanboys. One claiming that Microsoft is running at a loss. The other claiming that Microsoft is making a billion dollars profit a month.