They used to let 3rd party MP3 players sync with iTunes; now that there aren't any 3rd party MP3 players left on the market, what's the harm in letting the Palm Pre sync with iTunes?
Exactly.
Apple was more than happy to develop iTunes for PC's, since it was a way to help gain them market share by drawing people to buying iPods, and then to Mac computers themselves.
Now, however, Apple is becoming the control-freak 'Big Brother' company...the kind of company that they used to be fighting against. I applaud those who are taking on 'Big Brother' -- everyone from Palm in this case, to companies like Psystar. Apple is getting too haughty and needs to be humbled.
Now, however, Apple is becoming the control-freak 'Big Brother' company...the kind of company that they used to be fighting against. I applaud those who are taking on 'Big Brother' -- everyone from Palm in this case, to companies like Psystar. Apple is getting too haughty and needs to be humbled.
Why should Apple spend THEIR money on making sure 3rd party products work with THEIR products while SOMEONE ELSE makes the money that would be paying for that checking?
I would think that since Apple allows RIM to sync the Blackberry and isn't allowing PALM to sync the PRE it's more a case of very bad for Apple's Image along with slave labor they use to manufacture the phone.
BlackBerry offers an application. You download it. It syncs. All legitimate.
Pre tricks iTunes into syncing to it by cheating on USB identifiers (and who knows what else).
You don't see the difference here? Please tell me you're joking. It's a HUGE difference on a technical level. Apple isn't stopping Palm from creating their own software, it's stopping them from tricking Apple's software.
It's unbelievable that Palm took this approach to begin with, but still crazier that they haven't given it up in favor of something reliable, legitimate and ethical.
But they seem to prefer hacks. And that?s pretty disappointing. I was hoping we were going to have genuine competition. All we actually got was leeches and ticks. Oh well.
I really want Palm to succeed, too. I was a Palm developer for many years. But they really need to step it up and take the battle out of their users' devices.
The Blackberry does not sync directly to iTunes. It has its own desktop software. It doesn't masquerade as an iPod/iPhone.
That's not the point. Microsoft had to allow other Browsers on their Operating System. Apple has become Microsoft. Biil Gates Gives to Charity and Steve buys Livers.
I would think that since Apple allows RIM to sync the Blackberry and isn't allowing PALM to sync the PRE it's more a case of very bad for Apple's Image along with slave labor they use to manufacture the phone.
Allow Blackberry
Don't Allow Palm Pre
Can anyone say EU anti Trust?
You are celebrating "PRE" Maturely.
Once again, you're incredibly misinformed.
The breaking of Pre syncing didn't hurt Apple's image before, and it won't hurt it again, and again, and again.
What makes or breaks Apple's "image" is the strength of its products, and how the customer is treated when something goes wrong. That's where it begins and ends. And their image has never been better.
And whatever "slave labour" issues Apple has, were uncovered by Apple's OWN investigation, instigated of their OWN accord. And it isn't "slave labour", either. That's just your rhetoric intended to spread FUD. In fact, the issue makes them look completely diligent and ethically responsible.
That's not the point. Microsoft had to allow other Browsers on their Operating System. Apple has become Microsoft. Biil Gates Gives to Charity and Steve buys Livers.
Who's the evil one.
WTF??? Seriously?
You didn't even say how they were like Microsoft?
And allowing other software onto and operating system is a big difference from what is going on here.
Palm needs to stop being such rank amateurs and write their own sync software. It was unprofessional of them the first time, when they weren't sure that Apple would stop iTunes from delivering music to them. But now it's almost criminally negligent.
i concur! in all fairness to Apple, iTunes is its property – its creation specifically designed to support Apple's hardware. the response from Palm is out of character - unprofessional. Palm has position itself as a hacker instead of an innovative company capable of creating its own software to support its hardware. an innovative company was what i've always thought of Palm, but now i'm doubtful of its ability to compete fairly, and certainly not at the expense of its Pre owners. Pre owners would expect Palm to create its own Pre software (just as elegant as the Pre) to sync between devices.
this is too bad for Palm. what a shame to waste company's resources and reputation on hacking then to spend them on innovation.
I think Apple should do to these LEECHES what they deserve; sue them or break them.
Palm cannot piggyback on Apple's years of research and development. Rubinstein and the other traitors he recruited from Apple are responsible for this treachery. It is time to call in the lawyers and the programmers/softwares engineers, to fight this war from both ends, until Palm is crushed.
No piggybacking Palm! Get your shit together before coming out for the big show!
That's not the point. Microsoft had to allow other Browsers on their Operating System. Apple has become Microsoft. Biil Gates Gives to Charity and Steve buys Livers.
Who's the evil one.
No one is "evil."
Apple's legal position re monopoly has already been ruled on several times in the US, and once already ibh the EU (though the EU ruling was on pricing issues.) The iTunes issue has been decided years ago in the US.
But if you want to keep dreaming up hypotheticl events and make wild predicitons, hey, knock yourself out.
MS' problems are of an entirely different nature. And they're not new. Wishing for Apple to get into trouble a la MS does not, and will not, make it so.
And Bill Gates' charitable donatins have nothing to do with any of this. And SJ didn't "buy" his liver. Unless you can prove otherwise. But I'm sure in your head there's already an imaginary investigation going on and Steve is scheduled to take the stand tomorow.
The Pre hitching a ride off of Apple's iTunes coat tails is like your neighbor having the nerve to ask you to wash his car just after your done doing yours.
Palm should be carrying their own weight and not relying upon another companies product.
Of course if they come up with something BETTER than iTunes...then Apple has a problem.
I think Apple should do to these LEECHES what they deserve; sue them or break them.
Palm cannot piggyback on Apple's years of research and development. Rubinstein and the other traitors he recruited from Apple are responsible for this treachery. It is time to call in the lawyers and the programmers/softwares engineers, to fight this war from both ends, until Palm is crushed.
No piggybacking Palm! Get your shit together before coming out for the big show!
Oh I completely agree with your attitude. But it might be better to simply continue brdeaking Pre syncing with iTunes updates. Hey, they're just "updates" after all, right? Apple's first priority is iTunes and OS X functionality, and if it breaks Pre syncing, oh well . . . Apple isn't responsible.
Apple has no obligation what so ever to support the Pre.
Palm should be able to piggy back off iTunes if they please (same with any third party if they can figure it out themselves) Apple doesn't have to (nor should they) support them.
At the same time, Apple really shows their true colors when they make updates that specifically break a Non-Apple device. They shouldn't care that much. Its like the kid who specifically doesn't invite people to their party just to be hurtful because too many people picked on them. Not a good way to play.
If Apple's products are really as good as most on this site tout, then the Pre should be no competition right? Or is the fact Apple is making these updates actually acknowledging "Wait, we really do have TRUE competition!" and so aren't as "Top Notch" as this community usually perceives them?
This really reminds me of the Hackintosh debate. Same tactics. And this is why I encourage people to not buy Apple. Go Linux!
Also: iTunes is free software, right? (On Mac AND Windows too!) Second, the more people who use iTunes, the more who can buy off iTunes, thus actually supporting Apple right? (Even on a Windows machine!) So where does Apple have to loose here? If they do backhanded things like break Non-Apple iTunes syncing, they aren't helping themselves any, only loosing customers (myself included).
This is an interesting battle Palm is picking. If nothing else, its definitely exposure of the Pre to more and more users.
I don't think Palm is doing their customers justice for claiming iTunes compatibility, and I do wonder about the legality of their actions. But hey, being a lover of all things open, I kinda like seeing a big player take some jabs at Apple. This is going to make for some great stories in the future ^_^.
Disclosure: I own an iPhone, not Pre. My contract with AT&T is coming near the end, however, and with the Pre and HTC Hero on the market, I may be open to something new...
What would be the harm in Palm syncing the music themselves, right out of iTunes' library?
I don't know, but I thought you had an excellent point in comments on another article on AI. You mentioned that all the elements necessary for Palm to write its own conduit were freely accessible.
I think the harm is partly just the greasy feel this all has. It feels like a hack.
Plus, if you make it okay for other MP3 players to link to your software, it acquires a certain feature-immobility. If 3rd party connections are sanctified and made legitimate, then every time Apple wants to change iTunes, it has to do extra testing to ensure compatibility (which isn't fair to Apple). And whenever a 3rd party does something that breaks iTunes, Apple would get the blame. Where's the upside for them? --Besides the obvious upside that this kind of fight is a distraction associated with a certain cost, and that surrendering would thereby save that cost.
But is this so very different from the eternal fight against hackers in general? Hackers never go away. It's like any kind of security. Yes, it's a diversion of resources you wished you could spend elsewhere. But if you don't do it, it's not like the bad guys relent.
And maybe THAT'S the point. If people hack your stuff and you don't try and stop them, they're not satisfied with that. Giving them a pass just emboldens them. And people asinine enough to make one hack are likely to think of another. Remember that when you save yourself the effort of fighting a hacker, you also save THEM the effort of regaining their lost position. So you spend your money on something else, and so do they. And now there's two hacks you have to worry about. (Maybe Palm isn't like that, but there's not a lot of reason right now to cut them that kind of slack, seems to me).
If you resist enough, perhaps Palm will ask the matching question: "Wouldn't it just be easier to actually write the conduit we should have written in the beginning?"
hardly. and not needed. Palm wasn't too careful to keep the hack a secret.
they didn't write the iwork one. or the photoshop one. and they have better things to do with their time.
on the one hand, I agree that they need to write their own software. on the other, if they are going to insist on this itunes thing they aren't being very smart. given the popularity of the ipod, why hasn't anyone tried to file an anti-trust suit to stop Apple from being able to tie the itunes software to only their ipods.
Because there's case precedence and they know they would lose. So, why waste money on a trial? The simple fact of the matter is that Apple isn't trying to stop anyone from syncing from the XML file. RIM just announced their Blackberry client that's coming out in September for Macs will do just that and neither Apple, nor anyone else has a problem with that.
Palm is parading its phone around as an iPod in order to sync with iTunes directly. What Palm is doing is blatantly illegal. I would know, I own a Palm Pre, and the phone is nice, but there's no getting around that the phone can't even sync without having to change modes to project an iPod tag. Palm is just leeching off of Apple's research & development in order to save money and stir up press. Honestly, were it not for the iTunes syncing, very few people would still be talking about the Pre.
It's a nice phone with some kool features, but truthfully, the notification system is all it really has going for it. It's nice being able to flip between apps, but I don't exactly surf the web while text messaging, while talking on the phone, while reading my email (especially since it doesn't exactly work that way on EVDO networks anyway and more programs equals less battery life).
Comments
they didn't write the iwork one. or the photoshop one. and they have better things to do with their time.
Ever heard or sarcasm?
They used to let 3rd party MP3 players sync with iTunes; now that there aren't any 3rd party MP3 players left on the market, what's the harm in letting the Palm Pre sync with iTunes?
Exactly.
Apple was more than happy to develop iTunes for PC's, since it was a way to help gain them market share by drawing people to buying iPods, and then to Mac computers themselves.
Now, however, Apple is becoming the control-freak 'Big Brother' company...the kind of company that they used to be fighting against. I applaud those who are taking on 'Big Brother' -- everyone from Palm in this case, to companies like Psystar. Apple is getting too haughty and needs to be humbled.
Exactly.
Now, however, Apple is becoming the control-freak 'Big Brother' company...the kind of company that they used to be fighting against. I applaud those who are taking on 'Big Brother' -- everyone from Palm in this case, to companies like Psystar. Apple is getting too haughty and needs to be humbled.
Why should Apple spend THEIR money on making sure 3rd party products work with THEIR products while SOMEONE ELSE makes the money that would be paying for that checking?
This really seems like a stupid plan on Palm's part.
Yup. Palm should just ship SongBird with the Pre.
I would think that since Apple allows RIM to sync the Blackberry and isn't allowing PALM to sync the PRE it's more a case of very bad for Apple's Image along with slave labor they use to manufacture the phone.
BlackBerry offers an application. You download it. It syncs. All legitimate.
Pre tricks iTunes into syncing to it by cheating on USB identifiers (and who knows what else).
You don't see the difference here? Please tell me you're joking. It's a HUGE difference on a technical level. Apple isn't stopping Palm from creating their own software, it's stopping them from tricking Apple's software.
It's unbelievable that Palm took this approach to begin with, but still crazier that they haven't given it up in favor of something reliable, legitimate and ethical.
Yup. Palm should just ship SongBird with the Pre.
Maybe Apple should give an AppleTV with every iPhone. That and SongBird were both huge money makers.
But they seem to prefer hacks. And that?s pretty disappointing. I was hoping we were going to have genuine competition. All we actually got was leeches and ticks. Oh well.
I really want Palm to succeed, too. I was a Palm developer for many years. But they really need to step it up and take the battle out of their users' devices.
The Blackberry does not sync directly to iTunes. It has its own desktop software. It doesn't masquerade as an iPod/iPhone.
That's not the point. Microsoft had to allow other Browsers on their Operating System. Apple has become Microsoft. Biil Gates Gives to Charity and Steve buys Livers.
Who's the evil one.
I would think that since Apple allows RIM to sync the Blackberry and isn't allowing PALM to sync the PRE it's more a case of very bad for Apple's Image along with slave labor they use to manufacture the phone.
Allow Blackberry
Don't Allow Palm Pre
Can anyone say EU anti Trust?
You are celebrating "PRE" Maturely.
Once again, you're incredibly misinformed.
The breaking of Pre syncing didn't hurt Apple's image before, and it won't hurt it again, and again, and again.
What makes or breaks Apple's "image" is the strength of its products, and how the customer is treated when something goes wrong. That's where it begins and ends. And their image has never been better.
And whatever "slave labour" issues Apple has, were uncovered by Apple's OWN investigation, instigated of their OWN accord. And it isn't "slave labour", either. That's just your rhetoric intended to spread FUD. In fact, the issue makes them look completely diligent and ethically responsible.
That's not the point. Microsoft had to allow other Browsers on their Operating System. Apple has become Microsoft. Biil Gates Gives to Charity and Steve buys Livers.
Who's the evil one.
WTF??? Seriously?
You didn't even say how they were like Microsoft?
And allowing other software onto and operating system is a big difference from what is going on here.
Palm needs to stop being such rank amateurs and write their own sync software. It was unprofessional of them the first time, when they weren't sure that Apple would stop iTunes from delivering music to them. But now it's almost criminally negligent.
i concur! in all fairness to Apple, iTunes is its property – its creation specifically designed to support Apple's hardware. the response from Palm is out of character - unprofessional. Palm has position itself as a hacker instead of an innovative company capable of creating its own software to support its hardware. an innovative company was what i've always thought of Palm, but now i'm doubtful of its ability to compete fairly, and certainly not at the expense of its Pre owners. Pre owners would expect Palm to create its own Pre software (just as elegant as the Pre) to sync between devices.
this is too bad for Palm. what a shame to waste company's resources and reputation on hacking then to spend them on innovation.
Palm cannot piggyback on Apple's years of research and development. Rubinstein and the other traitors he recruited from Apple are responsible for this treachery. It is time to call in the lawyers and the programmers/softwares engineers, to fight this war from both ends, until Palm is crushed.
No piggybacking Palm! Get your shit together before coming out for the big show!
That's not the point. Microsoft had to allow other Browsers on their Operating System. Apple has become Microsoft. Biil Gates Gives to Charity and Steve buys Livers.
Who's the evil one.
No one is "evil."
Apple's legal position re monopoly has already been ruled on several times in the US, and once already ibh the EU (though the EU ruling was on pricing issues.) The iTunes issue has been decided years ago in the US.
But if you want to keep dreaming up hypotheticl events and make wild predicitons, hey, knock yourself out.
MS' problems are of an entirely different nature. And they're not new. Wishing for Apple to get into trouble a la MS does not, and will not, make it so.
And Bill Gates' charitable donatins have nothing to do with any of this. And SJ didn't "buy" his liver. Unless you can prove otherwise. But I'm sure in your head there's already an imaginary investigation going on and Steve is scheduled to take the stand tomorow.
Palm should be carrying their own weight and not relying upon another companies product.
Of course if they come up with something BETTER than iTunes...then Apple has a problem.
I think Apple should do to these LEECHES what they deserve; sue them or break them.
Palm cannot piggyback on Apple's years of research and development. Rubinstein and the other traitors he recruited from Apple are responsible for this treachery. It is time to call in the lawyers and the programmers/softwares engineers, to fight this war from both ends, until Palm is crushed.
No piggybacking Palm! Get your shit together before coming out for the big show!
Oh I completely agree with your attitude. But it might be better to simply continue brdeaking Pre syncing with iTunes updates. Hey, they're just "updates" after all, right? Apple's first priority is iTunes and OS X functionality, and if it breaks Pre syncing, oh well . . . Apple isn't responsible.
Palm should be able to piggy back off iTunes if they please (same with any third party if they can figure it out themselves) Apple doesn't have to (nor should they) support them.
At the same time, Apple really shows their true colors when they make updates that specifically break a Non-Apple device. They shouldn't care that much. Its like the kid who specifically doesn't invite people to their party just to be hurtful because too many people picked on them. Not a good way to play.
If Apple's products are really as good as most on this site tout, then the Pre should be no competition right? Or is the fact Apple is making these updates actually acknowledging "Wait, we really do have TRUE competition!" and so aren't as "Top Notch" as this community usually perceives them?
This really reminds me of the Hackintosh debate. Same tactics. And this is why I encourage people to not buy Apple. Go Linux!
Also: iTunes is free software, right? (On Mac AND Windows too!) Second, the more people who use iTunes, the more who can buy off iTunes, thus actually supporting Apple right? (Even on a Windows machine!) So where does Apple have to loose here? If they do backhanded things like break Non-Apple iTunes syncing, they aren't helping themselves any, only loosing customers (myself included).
I don't think Palm is doing their customers justice for claiming iTunes compatibility, and I do wonder about the legality of their actions. But hey, being a lover of all things open, I kinda like seeing a big player take some jabs at Apple. This is going to make for some great stories in the future ^_^.
Disclosure: I own an iPhone, not Pre. My contract with AT&T is coming near the end, however, and with the Pre and HTC Hero on the market, I may be open to something new...
What would be the harm in Palm syncing the music themselves, right out of iTunes' library?
I don't know, but I thought you had an excellent point in comments on another article on AI. You mentioned that all the elements necessary for Palm to write its own conduit were freely accessible.
I think the harm is partly just the greasy feel this all has. It feels like a hack.
Plus, if you make it okay for other MP3 players to link to your software, it acquires a certain feature-immobility. If 3rd party connections are sanctified and made legitimate, then every time Apple wants to change iTunes, it has to do extra testing to ensure compatibility (which isn't fair to Apple). And whenever a 3rd party does something that breaks iTunes, Apple would get the blame. Where's the upside for them? --Besides the obvious upside that this kind of fight is a distraction associated with a certain cost, and that surrendering would thereby save that cost.
But is this so very different from the eternal fight against hackers in general? Hackers never go away. It's like any kind of security. Yes, it's a diversion of resources you wished you could spend elsewhere. But if you don't do it, it's not like the bad guys relent.
And maybe THAT'S the point. If people hack your stuff and you don't try and stop them, they're not satisfied with that. Giving them a pass just emboldens them. And people asinine enough to make one hack are likely to think of another. Remember that when you save yourself the effort of fighting a hacker, you also save THEM the effort of regaining their lost position. So you spend your money on something else, and so do they. And now there's two hacks you have to worry about. (Maybe Palm isn't like that, but there's not a lot of reason right now to cut them that kind of slack, seems to me).
If you resist enough, perhaps Palm will ask the matching question: "Wouldn't it just be easier to actually write the conduit we should have written in the beginning?"
hardly. and not needed. Palm wasn't too careful to keep the hack a secret.
they didn't write the iwork one. or the photoshop one. and they have better things to do with their time.
on the one hand, I agree that they need to write their own software. on the other, if they are going to insist on this itunes thing they aren't being very smart. given the popularity of the ipod, why hasn't anyone tried to file an anti-trust suit to stop Apple from being able to tie the itunes software to only their ipods.
Because there's case precedence and they know they would lose. So, why waste money on a trial? The simple fact of the matter is that Apple isn't trying to stop anyone from syncing from the XML file. RIM just announced their Blackberry client that's coming out in September for Macs will do just that and neither Apple, nor anyone else has a problem with that.
Palm is parading its phone around as an iPod in order to sync with iTunes directly. What Palm is doing is blatantly illegal. I would know, I own a Palm Pre, and the phone is nice, but there's no getting around that the phone can't even sync without having to change modes to project an iPod tag. Palm is just leeching off of Apple's research & development in order to save money and stir up press. Honestly, were it not for the iTunes syncing, very few people would still be talking about the Pre.
It's a nice phone with some kool features, but truthfully, the notification system is all it really has going for it. It's nice being able to flip between apps, but I don't exactly surf the web while text messaging, while talking on the phone, while reading my email (especially since it doesn't exactly work that way on EVDO networks anyway and more programs equals less battery life).