As a Mac AND Palm Pre owner, I'm a bit pissed at Apple for this one.
They are being assholes, pure and simple. The sync protocol is well defined and there are several third party software apps out there that can sync to iPods. Why shouldn't the other way around be possible?
If us Palm Pre users can use iTunes to sync, we will be more likely to buy stuff from the iTunes store. Apple benefits!
Not only that, but Apple isn't seen as a monopolistic company trying to destroy everything else.
I like Apple, I really do. But their behavior as of late is really frustrating me. They're becoming Microsoft in a sense.
Interoperability is a GOOD THING.
"It just works!" is one of their mottos. Stick to it? I can understand if they don't want to support a third party product, but DON'T FREAKING BREAK IT ON PURPOSE.
And allowing other software onto and operating system is a big difference from what is going on here.
Hey, it's a good question.
I'm just curious if Steve is going to show up in the New Jersey corruption will illegally buying a Liver form a Rabbi Priest in New Jersey and go down with the rest of the corruption.
I got a kick out of the Pre users when Apple blocked them out of iTunes: they were rejoicing because nobody liked iTunes anyway. iTunes sucks, etc.
Now that Palm has reacquired access to iTunes, their tune is different.
The "Pre users" are not the enemy. They're not the "other side". Don't you people realize this?
Competition is a good thing. The iPhone and Pre are great phones in slightly different ways. Maybe the Pre's existence will kick Apple's ass into adding multitasking in a future release. Maybe the 3Gs will kick Palm's ass into getting video implemented sooner.
Competing products benefit each other greatly. Companies in monopoly positions get lazy and don't innovate. They don't get any inspiration from the competition, because there is none.
Wake up and stop being a completely blind Apple fanboy. Note that I own a Mac Pro and a Macbook Pro so I'm not speaking entirely from the other side of the "fence".
Apple was more than happy to develop iTunes for PC's, since it was a way to help gain them market share by drawing people to buying iPods, and then to Mac computers themselves.
Now, however, Apple is becoming the control-freak 'Big Brother' company...the kind of company that they used to be fighting against. I applaud those who are taking on 'Big Brother' -- everyone from Palm in this case, to companies like Psystar. Apple is getting too haughty and needs to be humbled.
Big Brother? Are you serious? Apple made sound investments that led to popular products that need to be protected and trying to do such makes it Big Brother? Does any company that doesn't let you do anything you want equal Big Brother in your mind? Cause what you're talking about has nothing to do with humbling a company, you're talking about fundamentally altering a successful business plan, which means you're really talking about destroying something.
I got a kick out of the Pre users when Apple blocked them out of iTunes: they were rejoicing because nobody liked iTunes anyway. iTunes sucks, etc.
Now that Palm has reacquired access to iTunes, their tune is different.
Frankly speaking, I wish someone would create a third-party jukebox that would sync with the iPhone. I only use iTunes because I have to, but its largely broken for my needs.
Palm should work to create something that works for webOS, Android and Blackberry users, have a Mac/Windows/Linux client, and invite iPods and iPhones along to join them! I'd be down with that.
As a Mac AND Palm Pre owner, I'm a bit pissed at Apple for this one.
They are being assholes, pure and simple. The sync protocol is well defined and there are several third party software apps out there that can sync to iPods. Why shouldn't the other way around be possible?
If us Palm Pre users can use iTunes to sync, we will be more likely to buy stuff from the iTunes store. Apple benefits!
Not only that, but Apple isn't seen as a monopolistic company trying to destroy everything else.
I like Apple, I really do. But their behavior as of late is really frustrating me. They're becoming Microsoft in a sense.
Interoperability is a GOOD THING.
"It just works!" is one of their mottos. Stick to it? I can understand if they don't want to support a third party product, but DON'T FREAKING BREAK IT ON PURPOSE.
Frankly speaking, I wish someone would create a third-party jukebox that would sync with the iPhone. I only use iTunes because I have to, but its largely broken for my needs.
Palm should work to create something that works for webOS, Android and Blackberry users, have a Mac/Windows/Linux client, and invite iPods and iPhones along to join them! I'd be down with that.
I'm with you here. Have you tried Songbird (Mac/Win/Lin) or Foobar2000 (Win)? Dunno how well they work with an iPhone though. Worth a look if you haven't already.
Palm should work to create something that works for webOS, Android and Blackberry users, have a Mac/Windows/Linux client, and invite iPods and iPhones along to join them! I'd be down with that.
They don't have to create anything. There is already a software called DoubltTwist that works with all these devices except iPhone OS 3.0. All they had to do is instruct their users to download the software but Palm wants to pick a fight with Apple and people are lazy to do a simple search for an alternative.
Palm should work to create something that works for webOS, Android and Blackberry users, have a Mac/Windows/Linux client, and invite iPods and iPhones along to join them! I'd be down with that.
This would be the smarter way to go, but you know that Apple would just do a software update to the iPod/iPhone software that breaks their ability to see that hypothetical Palm app.
I think it's fair game for Palm to figure out a way to make their device work with the current standard software (iTunes), just as much as it's fair game for Apple to use their software to only promote their devices. They're both doing what you should expect that they'd do.
I agree with those who refer to Palm as hackers! And to hack that openly is illegal. THIEVES would be more accurate description, I think!
But, if Apple sues Palm, that's free pr for Pre..., so, maybe Apple can ridicule them in a TV Commercial... Yes it's a pr too, but the one that Apple can control better!
THE COMMERCIAL:
A Scene at Sprint Store:
Customer: sir, I bought this Pre and now it doesn't sync with my iTunes...
[unlike Apple store, where almost everyone, knows iPhone in their sleep + 800 Support], there is 1 or to 2 people who know SOMETHING about Pre... [that's was the case in my local Spring Store, except Pre on display was crashing; I had to wait 15 min or more for the ONLY guy who knew Pre, and he did the demon on his OWN phone, not the floor mode, which was not even fully charged]
Sprint: don't worry sir, Apple is giving us a hard time, and we are going to fix it as we did before
Customer: ok, but was if Apple give you guys hard time again, how often am I supposed to be running back and forth like this?
Sprint: I don't know, sir/mrs! You can exchange it for another phone? But, like a said, we are working on it...
If the customer is not too savvy, who knows what they'll doo..
The commercial ends with:
Customer: When are you guys getting iPhone!
Or
iTunes -- There is an app for that
iPhone image... And some recognizable Apple jingle!
Common, Apple, LAUGH THEM out of town.,..
BTW, next door to my Sprint store, there is a T-Mobile store, and it's not a reseller! I asked to see Android Phone, and they had NONE available, just dummies, or brochures! And, like at Sprint store, they vibe was: what are you bothering us for... They did not look too educated... Can't even consider comparing them to anyone at Apple Store, and I don't even mean Geniuses!
Across the street, there is ATT store, with 3 iPhones, as opposed to ONE Pre at Sprint, and no Androids at T-MoBULL!
SUPPPORT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That's where it starts and ends, at least for me! But, if some Apple Hater wants to be Palm's beta tester, and wait on Hold for tech support, probably in Philippines, like it's been with Treo, let them PREspire!
I agree, I think this is nothing short of juvenile behavior on the part of Palm. That's their business plan, to pretend to be something else? To think I actually tried a Pre before buying my 3GS. Sprint must be proud to have Palm as a business partner. What's next, Palm? Pretending to be on the Verizon network?
If you resist enough, perhaps Palm will ask the matching question: "Wouldn't it just be easier to actually write the conduit we should have written in the beginning?"
This is a very interesting point. I like where it's going.
I'm wholeheartedly supportive of Palm writing their own conduit in order to simply relieve themselves of the hassle. RIM is doing it and by all accounts it's a welcome thing. It's the smart way around the situation, and I believe Apple is all for it, if I'm not mistaken.
The real question is what Palm will do as their next move, once Apple breaks syncing again. Hopefully, at least in my opinion, Apple will stick to simply and quite innocently thwarting Palm via regular updates to iTunes and they keep this out of the legal arena, for the simple reason that it's quite possible win this war without a shot having been fired.
Masquerading your product as an iPhone is asking for it. Does Palm want to invite a confrontation? Are they doing this to simply draw out Apple legal? Do they think they have a case should this ever go legal and want to test it? At this point I don't see how that would be the smart thing for Palm to do.
There is no anti-trust issue. The XML for the iTunes library is freely available and very easy to program for, read, and write to. It would be trivial for Palm to write their own app or users can simply use any of the open source solutions (http://www.sourceforge.net). There are numerous applications out there that sync perfectly with a users iTunes library. It is NOT Apple's responsibility to support a non-apple device, especially when that device competes directly with iPod and iPhone.
This is not an Operating System who's primary purpose to to integrate with 3rd party hardware and software. This is software. This is no different that MS Office not providing support for ODF format on the Mac, or Lotus 123 not reading Excel files, or Windows Media Player not supporting iPod. I wouldn't expect MS to put out an update that suddenly gets an iPod working with it out of the box. Neither did apple. They simple wrote their own.
If iTunes was the only method for users to access their iTunes library then you might have an anti-trust issue. This is not the case however. This is not Apple hardware for one, and iTunes never claimed nor are they required to support a competing vendors product. I think the Pre owners would be better served complaining to Palm to write them supported software that just reads and writes directly to the iTunes library.
As a Mac AND Palm Pre owner, I'm a bit pissed at Apple for this one.
They are being assholes, pure and simple. The sync protocol is well defined and there are several third party software apps out there that can sync to iPods. Why shouldn't the other way around be possible?
If us Palm Pre users can use iTunes to sync, we will be more likely to buy stuff from the iTunes store. Apple benefits!
Not only that, but Apple isn't seen as a monopolistic company trying to destroy everything else.
I like Apple, I really do. But their behavior as of late is really frustrating me. They're becoming Microsoft in a sense.
Interoperability is a GOOD THING.
"It just works!" is one of their mottos. Stick to it? I can understand if they don't want to support a third party product, but DON'T FREAKING BREAK IT ON PURPOSE.
How many times does this have to be said: Apple barely makes back operating costs on iTunes actual content. Most of the money is flowing to the movie/music studios and the artists. Apple only makes money when you buy either an iPod or an iPhone. That is why it has a vested interest in tying iTunes to its own products.
And Apple is only ever seen as monopolistic by people who have an extreme sense of entitlement. If you buy a Pre because Palm told you it would sync with iTunes and then Apple disables that to protect its investment, then Palm is the one at fault. Hell, if you're gonna bemoan iTunes not working with the Pre, you might as well start bitching about Palm not licensing WebOS to run on the iPhone. The concept between the two is ultimately the same: you want it to work with something its parent company does not.
And yes, interoperability is a good thing, but it's not a good thing when it allows a company to avoid doing its own R&D by just leaching off your work. That's like saying the kid sitting behind you and stealing your answers during last week's science test was just trying to improve interoperability.
I would think that since Apple allows RIM to sync the Blackberry and isn't allowing PALM to sync the PRE it's more a case of very bad for Apple's Image along with slave labor they use to manufacture the phone.
Allow Blackberry
Don't Allow Palm Pre
Wrong. Blackberry wrote their own software to read the XML file. Apple is in no way stopping Palm from writing their own software.
Quote:
Can anyone say EU anti Trust?
EU anti Trust. There, I said it. Except it has absolutely nothing to do with iTunes. Maybe you should learn what anti-trust is before you go around saying it.
They don't have to create anything. There is already a software called DoubltTwist that works with all these devices except iPhone OS 3.0. All they had to do is instruct their users to download the software but Palm wants to pick a fight with Apple and people are lazy to do a simple search for an alternative.
I knew about doubleTwist, but no Mac client yet . Songbird is another alternative, but again, no direct syncing yet.
I'm not saying Palm is wise for taking on this battle - I just think its interesting. I don't mind a few jabs at Apple's pride every now and then . Come on, we all do it with Microsoft. Admit it.
I knew about doubleTwist, but no Mac client yet . Songbird is another alternative, but again, no direct syncing yet.
I'm not saying Palm is wise for taking on this battle - I just think its interesting. I don't mind a few jabs at Apple's pride every now and then . Come on, we all do it with Microsoft. Admit it.
There is a DoubleTwist Mac client. Go check their website. The difference is that MS products, except for one or two, actually sucks. From Apple products user, the reason these things irritate me is because right now we enjoy simple and clean user experience. For example, All Mac OS DVD are full version and requires no verifications or SN and iTunes works flawlessly with the iPods and iPhones (including jailbroken iPhones). If Apple responded to Mac cloners by changing how Mac OS is sold and installed and to Palm by causing problems for those who owns jailbroken iPhones then the loser will be us Apple products users.
Comments
They are being assholes, pure and simple. The sync protocol is well defined and there are several third party software apps out there that can sync to iPods. Why shouldn't the other way around be possible?
If us Palm Pre users can use iTunes to sync, we will be more likely to buy stuff from the iTunes store. Apple benefits!
Not only that, but Apple isn't seen as a monopolistic company trying to destroy everything else.
I like Apple, I really do. But their behavior as of late is really frustrating me. They're becoming Microsoft in a sense.
Interoperability is a GOOD THING.
"It just works!" is one of their mottos. Stick to it? I can understand if they don't want to support a third party product, but DON'T FREAKING BREAK IT ON PURPOSE.
Now that Palm has reacquired access to iTunes, their tune is different.
WTF??? Seriously?
You didn't even say how they were like Microsoft?
And allowing other software onto and operating system is a big difference from what is going on here.
Hey, it's a good question.
I'm just curious if Steve is going to show up in the New Jersey corruption will illegally buying a Liver form a Rabbi Priest in New Jersey and go down with the rest of the corruption.
I got a kick out of the Pre users when Apple blocked them out of iTunes: they were rejoicing because nobody liked iTunes anyway. iTunes sucks, etc.
Now that Palm has reacquired access to iTunes, their tune is different.
The "Pre users" are not the enemy. They're not the "other side". Don't you people realize this?
Competition is a good thing. The iPhone and Pre are great phones in slightly different ways. Maybe the Pre's existence will kick Apple's ass into adding multitasking in a future release. Maybe the 3Gs will kick Palm's ass into getting video implemented sooner.
Competing products benefit each other greatly. Companies in monopoly positions get lazy and don't innovate. They don't get any inspiration from the competition, because there is none.
Wake up and stop being a completely blind Apple fanboy. Note that I own a Mac Pro and a Macbook Pro so I'm not speaking entirely from the other side of the "fence".
Exactly.
Apple was more than happy to develop iTunes for PC's, since it was a way to help gain them market share by drawing people to buying iPods, and then to Mac computers themselves.
Now, however, Apple is becoming the control-freak 'Big Brother' company...the kind of company that they used to be fighting against. I applaud those who are taking on 'Big Brother' -- everyone from Palm in this case, to companies like Psystar. Apple is getting too haughty and needs to be humbled.
Big Brother? Are you serious? Apple made sound investments that led to popular products that need to be protected and trying to do such makes it Big Brother? Does any company that doesn't let you do anything you want equal Big Brother in your mind? Cause what you're talking about has nothing to do with humbling a company, you're talking about fundamentally altering a successful business plan, which means you're really talking about destroying something.
I got a kick out of the Pre users when Apple blocked them out of iTunes: they were rejoicing because nobody liked iTunes anyway. iTunes sucks, etc.
Now that Palm has reacquired access to iTunes, their tune is different.
Frankly speaking, I wish someone would create a third-party jukebox that would sync with the iPhone. I only use iTunes because I have to, but its largely broken for my needs.
Palm should work to create something that works for webOS, Android and Blackberry users, have a Mac/Windows/Linux client, and invite iPods and iPhones along to join them! I'd be down with that.
As a Mac AND Palm Pre owner, I'm a bit pissed at Apple for this one.
They are being assholes, pure and simple. The sync protocol is well defined and there are several third party software apps out there that can sync to iPods. Why shouldn't the other way around be possible?
If us Palm Pre users can use iTunes to sync, we will be more likely to buy stuff from the iTunes store. Apple benefits!
Not only that, but Apple isn't seen as a monopolistic company trying to destroy everything else.
I like Apple, I really do. But their behavior as of late is really frustrating me. They're becoming Microsoft in a sense.
Interoperability is a GOOD THING.
"It just works!" is one of their mottos. Stick to it? I can understand if they don't want to support a third party product, but DON'T FREAKING BREAK IT ON PURPOSE.
Thank you for your opinion!
Frankly speaking, I wish someone would create a third-party jukebox that would sync with the iPhone. I only use iTunes because I have to, but its largely broken for my needs.
Palm should work to create something that works for webOS, Android and Blackberry users, have a Mac/Windows/Linux client, and invite iPods and iPhones along to join them! I'd be down with that.
I'm with you here. Have you tried Songbird (Mac/Win/Lin) or Foobar2000 (Win)? Dunno how well they work with an iPhone though. Worth a look if you haven't already.
Palm should work to create something that works for webOS, Android and Blackberry users, have a Mac/Windows/Linux client, and invite iPods and iPhones along to join them! I'd be down with that.
They don't have to create anything. There is already a software called DoubltTwist that works with all these devices except iPhone OS 3.0. All they had to do is instruct their users to download the software but Palm wants to pick a fight with Apple and people are lazy to do a simple search for an alternative.
Palm should work to create something that works for webOS, Android and Blackberry users, have a Mac/Windows/Linux client, and invite iPods and iPhones along to join them! I'd be down with that.
This would be the smarter way to go, but you know that Apple would just do a software update to the iPod/iPhone software that breaks their ability to see that hypothetical Palm app.
I think it's fair game for Palm to figure out a way to make their device work with the current standard software (iTunes), just as much as it's fair game for Apple to use their software to only promote their devices. They're both doing what you should expect that they'd do.
But, if Apple sues Palm, that's free pr for Pre..., so, maybe Apple can ridicule them in a TV Commercial... Yes it's a pr too, but the one that Apple can control better
THE COMMERCIAL:
A Scene at Sprint Store:
Customer: sir, I bought this Pre and now it doesn't sync with my iTunes...
[unlike Apple store, where almost everyone, knows iPhone in their sleep + 800 Support], there is 1 or to 2 people who know SOMETHING about Pre... [that's was the case in my local Spring Store, except Pre on display was crashing; I had to wait 15 min or more for the ONLY guy who knew Pre, and he did the demon on his OWN phone, not the floor mode, which was not even fully charged]
Sprint: don't worry sir, Apple is giving us a hard time, and we are going to fix it as we did before
Customer: ok, but was if Apple give you guys hard time again, how often am I supposed to be running back and forth like this?
Sprint: I don't know, sir/mrs! You can exchange it for another phone? But, like a said, we are working on it...
If the customer is not too savvy, who knows what they'll doo..
The commercial ends with:
Customer: When are you guys getting iPhone!
Or
iTunes -- There is an app for that
iPhone image... And some recognizable Apple jingle
Common, Apple, LAUGH THEM out of town.,..
BTW, next door to my Sprint store, there is a T-Mobile store, and it's not a reseller! I asked to see Android Phone, and they had NONE available, just dummies, or brochures! And, like at Sprint store, they vibe was: what are you bothering us for... They did not look too educated... Can't even consider comparing them to anyone at Apple Store, and I don't even mean Geniuses!
Across the street, there is ATT store, with 3 iPhones, as opposed to ONE Pre at Sprint, and no Androids at T-MoBULL
SUPPPORT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That's where it starts and ends, at least for me! But, if some Apple Hater wants to be Palm's beta tester, and wait on Hold for tech support, probably in Philippines, like it's been with Treo, let them PREspire
If you resist enough, perhaps Palm will ask the matching question: "Wouldn't it just be easier to actually write the conduit we should have written in the beginning?"
This is a very interesting point. I like where it's going.
I'm wholeheartedly supportive of Palm writing their own conduit in order to simply relieve themselves of the hassle. RIM is doing it and by all accounts it's a welcome thing. It's the smart way around the situation, and I believe Apple is all for it, if I'm not mistaken.
The real question is what Palm will do as their next move, once Apple breaks syncing again. Hopefully, at least in my opinion, Apple will stick to simply and quite innocently thwarting Palm via regular updates to iTunes and they keep this out of the legal arena, for the simple reason that it's quite possible win this war without a shot having been fired.
Masquerading your product as an iPhone is asking for it. Does Palm want to invite a confrontation? Are they doing this to simply draw out Apple legal? Do they think they have a case should this ever go legal and want to test it? At this point I don't see how that would be the smart thing for Palm to do.
This is not an Operating System who's primary purpose to to integrate with 3rd party hardware and software. This is software. This is no different that MS Office not providing support for ODF format on the Mac, or Lotus 123 not reading Excel files, or Windows Media Player not supporting iPod. I wouldn't expect MS to put out an update that suddenly gets an iPod working with it out of the box. Neither did apple. They simple wrote their own.
If iTunes was the only method for users to access their iTunes library then you might have an anti-trust issue. This is not the case however. This is not Apple hardware for one, and iTunes never claimed nor are they required to support a competing vendors product. I think the Pre owners would be better served complaining to Palm to write them supported software that just reads and writes directly to the iTunes library.
As a Mac AND Palm Pre owner, I'm a bit pissed at Apple for this one.
They are being assholes, pure and simple. The sync protocol is well defined and there are several third party software apps out there that can sync to iPods. Why shouldn't the other way around be possible?
If us Palm Pre users can use iTunes to sync, we will be more likely to buy stuff from the iTunes store. Apple benefits!
Not only that, but Apple isn't seen as a monopolistic company trying to destroy everything else.
I like Apple, I really do. But their behavior as of late is really frustrating me. They're becoming Microsoft in a sense.
Interoperability is a GOOD THING.
"It just works!" is one of their mottos. Stick to it? I can understand if they don't want to support a third party product, but DON'T FREAKING BREAK IT ON PURPOSE.
How many times does this have to be said: Apple barely makes back operating costs on iTunes actual content. Most of the money is flowing to the movie/music studios and the artists. Apple only makes money when you buy either an iPod or an iPhone. That is why it has a vested interest in tying iTunes to its own products.
And Apple is only ever seen as monopolistic by people who have an extreme sense of entitlement. If you buy a Pre because Palm told you it would sync with iTunes and then Apple disables that to protect its investment, then Palm is the one at fault. Hell, if you're gonna bemoan iTunes not working with the Pre, you might as well start bitching about Palm not licensing WebOS to run on the iPhone. The concept between the two is ultimately the same: you want it to work with something its parent company does not.
And yes, interoperability is a good thing, but it's not a good thing when it allows a company to avoid doing its own R&D by just leaching off your work. That's like saying the kid sitting behind you and stealing your answers during last week's science test was just trying to improve interoperability.
Palm is just lazy.
I would think that since Apple allows RIM to sync the Blackberry and isn't allowing PALM to sync the PRE it's more a case of very bad for Apple's Image along with slave labor they use to manufacture the phone.
Allow Blackberry
Don't Allow Palm Pre
Wrong. Blackberry wrote their own software to read the XML file. Apple is in no way stopping Palm from writing their own software.
Can anyone say EU anti Trust?
EU anti Trust. There, I said it. Except it has absolutely nothing to do with iTunes. Maybe you should learn what anti-trust is before you go around saying it.
They don't have to create anything. There is already a software called DoubltTwist that works with all these devices except iPhone OS 3.0. All they had to do is instruct their users to download the software but Palm wants to pick a fight with Apple and people are lazy to do a simple search for an alternative.
I knew about doubleTwist, but no Mac client yet
I'm not saying Palm is wise for taking on this battle - I just think its interesting. I don't mind a few jabs at Apple's pride every now and then
I knew about doubleTwist, but no Mac client yet
I'm not saying Palm is wise for taking on this battle - I just think its interesting. I don't mind a few jabs at Apple's pride every now and then
There is a DoubleTwist Mac client. Go check their website. The difference is that MS products, except for one or two, actually sucks. From Apple products user, the reason these things irritate me is because right now we enjoy simple and clean user experience. For example, All Mac OS DVD are full version and requires no verifications or SN and iTunes works flawlessly with the iPods and iPhones (including jailbroken iPhones). If Apple responded to Mac cloners by changing how Mac OS is sold and installed and to Palm by causing problems for those who owns jailbroken iPhones then the loser will be us Apple products users.