If I remember correctly, Apple initially approached Verizon with a prototype of the iPhone, and talks broke down because Verizon wouldn't play ball and let Apple either dictate the design and content of software or the revenue-sharing scheme (or both).
Apple then went off to 2nd choice AT&T and these guys creamed their pants enough to agree Apple's terms. The rest is history.
Verizon will now play ball because it has lost shed-loads of customers to AT&T over the last three years, so much so that this year, AT&T's customer-base is fast expanding to almost equal Verizons. Three years ago the gap was huge, now, it's negligible.
If Apple & AT&T retain the iPhone exclusivity deal, AT&T will soon overtake Verizon.
Also, would Verizon have suffered so badly if jailbroken/unlocked iPhones worked on its network??
If I remember correctly, Apple initially approached Verizon with a prototype of the iPhone, and talks broke down because Verizon wouldn't play ball and let Apple either dictate the design and content of software or the revenue-sharing scheme (or both).
Apple then went off to 2nd choice AT&T and these guys creamed their pants enough to agree Apple's terms. The rest is history.
Verizon will now play ball because it has lost shed-loads of customers to AT&T over the last three years, so much so that this year, AT&T's customer-base is fast expanding to almost equal Verizons. Three years ago the gap was huge, now, it's negligible.
If Apple & AT&T retain the iPhone exclusivity deal, AT&T will soon overtake Verizon.
Also, would Verizon have suffered so badly if jailbroken/unlocked iPhones worked on its network??
I second that. And true, ATnT is lucky Apple chose it, or it wouldn't be the thriving company it is today IMO.
If I remember correctly, Apple initially approached Verizon with a prototype of the iPhone, and talks broke down because Verizon wouldn't play ball and let Apple either dictate the design and content of software or the revenue-sharing scheme (or both).
Apple then went off to 2nd choice AT&T and these guys creamed their pants enough to agree Apple's terms. The rest is history.
Verizon will now play ball because it has lost shed-loads of customers to AT&T over the last three years, so much so that this year, AT&T's customer-base is fast expanding to almost equal Verizons. Three years ago the gap was huge, now, it's negligible.
If Apple & AT&T retain the iPhone exclusivity deal, AT&T will soon overtake Verizon.
Also, would Verizon have suffered so badly if jailbroken/unlocked iPhones worked on its network??
No one outside of those talks knows what happened. No one knows what Apple said, and no one knows Verizon's response.
We have no idea if Apple showed them a prototype or not. I tend to doubt it, as AT&T stated that they went with Apple WITHOUT ever seeing one.
AT&T was actually the largest provider after the merger with Cingular right before Apple signed with them. It was Allitel's purchase almost two years later that brought Verizon ahead of AT&T. But AT&T is catching up with them, mostly thanks to the iPhone.
But AT&T is catching up with them, mostly thanks to the iPhone.
In the last quarter when the new iphone 3GS was launched --- AT&T managed to beat Verizon's net adds by a whopping quarter of a million subscribers in a quarter.
That's the best case scenario --- so realistically --- AT&T is not really catching up with Verizon.
In the last quarter when the new iphone 3GS was launched --- AT&T managed to beat Verizon's net adds by a whopping quarter of a million subscribers in a quarter.
That's the best case scenario --- so realistically --- AT&T is not really catching up with Verizon.
At current rate --- which is based on a very good iphone launch quarter --- it would take AT&T Wireless 8 YEARS to catch up to Verizon Wireless.
The duration it would take at current rate is not what was being discussed, but whether Verizon?s lead over AT&T was shrinking. Even if AT&T had only one more net subscriber over Verizion each quarter they would still be catching up and your comments would still be incorrect.
The duration it would take at current rate is not what was being discussed, but whether Verizon?s lead over AT&T was shrinking. Even if AT&T had only one more net subscriber over Verizion each quarter they would still be catching up and your comments would still be incorrect.
No, that's not what was being discussed.
What was discussed by melgross was how AT&T was catching up to Verizon because of the iphone (mostly).
You take out Tracfone's numbers (prepaid subscribers with about $13 a month ARPU) from AT&T's numbers --- aside from the last week's announcement, AT&T had NEVER beaten Verizon in terms of net adds.
The last quarter was the FIRST quarter EVER that AT&T has beaten Verizon in their retail subscriber net adds since the iphone was launched 2 years ago. And it was a "iphone launch" quarter --- which skewed the data heavily in favor of AT&T.
AT&T wins the iphone launch quarter but loses the other 3 quarters in the rest of the year.
What was discussed by melgross was how AT&T was catching up to Verizon because of the iphone (mostly).
? and then write this...
Quote:
The last quarter was the FIRST quarter EVER that AT&T has beaten Verizon in their retail subscriber net adds since the iphone was launched 2 years ago. And it was a "iphone launch" quarter --- which skewed the data heavily in favor of AT&T.
without seeing that eve what you write shows clearly that AT&T gained on Verizon by a quarter million subs last quarter. Amazing how some people?s brains can seemingly function in such a unique way.
without seeing that eve what you write shows clearly that AT&T gained on Verizon by a quarter million subs last quarter. Amazing how some people?s brains can seemingly function in such a unique way.
It's actually a lot smaller than a quarter of a million --- excluding merger-related net adds and Tracfone net adds, AT&T Wireless only had 1.153 million net adds. Verizon --- exclusing merger-related net adds and MVNO net adds, had 1.1 million net adds.
Imagine that an iphone launch quarter --- gave AT&T a "win" of 53000 net adds.
Imagine all the other quarters when the iphone is not launched --- winning one quarter and losing the other 3 quarters --- is still losing.
It's actually a lot smaller than a quarter of a million --- excluding merger-related net adds and Tracfone net adds, AT&T Wireless only had 1.153 million net adds. Verizon --- exclusing merger-related net adds and MVNO net adds, had 1.1 million net adds.
Imagine that an iphone launch quarter --- gave AT&T a "win" of 53000 net adds.
Imagine all the other quarters when the iphone is not launched --- winning one quarter and losing the other 3 quarters --- is still losing.
Exactly what part of 53000 more equates to moving father away. You can include as many or as few quarters as you wish, but the fact remains that AT&T bested Verizon last quarter and lessened the divide between them. You don?t have to like it, but you do have to accept it. The only lying here is how you wish to interpret these very simple stats.
At current rate --- which is based on a very good iphone launch quarter --- it would take AT&T Wireless 8 YEARS to catch up to Verizon Wireless.
Not necessarily. iPhone sales are moving up. Apple will sell a lot more this year in the US then last year. Next year, they will sell a lot more. At some point in the next few years, sales will slow down, unless Apple comes up with something new.
So AT&T may pick up a million extra subscribers than Verizon. Next year it could be 2 million. The next year, 3 million.
without seeing that eve what you write shows clearly that AT&T gained on Verizon by a quarter million subs last quarter. Amazing how some people?s brains can seemingly function in such a unique way.
Not necessarily. iPhone sales are moving up. Apple will sell a lot more this year in the US then last year. Next year, they will sell a lot more. At some point in the next few years, sales will slow down, unless Apple comes up with something new.
So AT&T may pick up a million extra subscribers than Verizon. Next year it could be 2 million. The next year, 3 million.
You are basing your math --- based on an iphone launch quarter.
That's like going to shopping mall and just looking at the christmas season shopping traffic. What about the rest of the year.
After you take out merger related stuff and mvno's like tracfone --- the difference between the 2 carriers on an iphone launch quarter is 53000 subscribers.
Exactly what part of 53000 more equates to moving father away. You can include as many or as few quarters as you wish, but the fact remains that AT&T bested Verizon last quarter and lessened the divide between them. You don?t have to like it, but you do have to accept it. The only lying here is how you wish to interpret these very simple stats.
At what price is AT&T for this "win" and how durable is the "win".
You don't have to like it --- but I would rather win the whole war than winning a single battle at any given financial quarter.
I'm talking about over the past year prior to Verizon buying Alltel. AT&T merged with Cingular in 2004. These are entirely two different moments in time. Are you willing to disrupt the space/time continuum in attempt to make Verizon look good?
Quote:
Originally Posted by samab
No, the gap got narrower after Cingular bought AT&T Wireless. Verizon was winning the market share game after the Cingular/AT&T Wireless merger.
I'm talking about over the past year prior to Verizon buying Alltel. AT&T merged with Cingular in 2004. These are entirely two different moments in time. Are you willing to disrupt the space/time continuum in attempt to make Verizon look good?
I agree with you --- there are 2 different time periods. A 2004-2007 period (post Cingular/AT&T wireless merger but before the iphone was launched) where Verizon beats AT&T, period.
The second period is the post iphone launch period from 2007 on --- I think AT&T beat Verizon in 4 out of the 8 quarters. But that was all from Tracfone's strong numbers --- really nothing to do with the iphone or AT&T.
This past quarter is the FIRST quarter since the iphone was launched that AT&T won the numbers game --- all by themselves.
You are basing your math --- based on an iphone launch quarter.
That's like going to shopping mall and just looking at the christmas season shopping traffic. What about the rest of the year.
After you take out merger related stuff and mvno's like tracfone --- the difference between the 2 carriers on an iphone launch quarter is 53000 subscribers.
You number is suspect, because you're assuming that iPhone sales aren't going to grow. also your number is not necessarily correct on its own.
Comments
Apple then went off to 2nd choice AT&T and these guys creamed their pants enough to agree Apple's terms. The rest is history.
Verizon will now play ball because it has lost shed-loads of customers to AT&T over the last three years, so much so that this year, AT&T's customer-base is fast expanding to almost equal Verizons. Three years ago the gap was huge, now, it's negligible.
If Apple & AT&T retain the iPhone exclusivity deal, AT&T will soon overtake Verizon.
Also, would Verizon have suffered so badly if jailbroken/unlocked iPhones worked on its network??
If I remember correctly, Apple initially approached Verizon with a prototype of the iPhone, and talks broke down because Verizon wouldn't play ball and let Apple either dictate the design and content of software or the revenue-sharing scheme (or both).
Apple then went off to 2nd choice AT&T and these guys creamed their pants enough to agree Apple's terms. The rest is history.
Verizon will now play ball because it has lost shed-loads of customers to AT&T over the last three years, so much so that this year, AT&T's customer-base is fast expanding to almost equal Verizons. Three years ago the gap was huge, now, it's negligible.
If Apple & AT&T retain the iPhone exclusivity deal, AT&T will soon overtake Verizon.
Also, would Verizon have suffered so badly if jailbroken/unlocked iPhones worked on its network??
I second that. And true, ATnT is lucky Apple chose it, or it wouldn't be the thriving company it is today IMO.
If I remember correctly, Apple initially approached Verizon with a prototype of the iPhone, and talks broke down because Verizon wouldn't play ball and let Apple either dictate the design and content of software or the revenue-sharing scheme (or both).
Apple then went off to 2nd choice AT&T and these guys creamed their pants enough to agree Apple's terms. The rest is history.
Verizon will now play ball because it has lost shed-loads of customers to AT&T over the last three years, so much so that this year, AT&T's customer-base is fast expanding to almost equal Verizons. Three years ago the gap was huge, now, it's negligible.
If Apple & AT&T retain the iPhone exclusivity deal, AT&T will soon overtake Verizon.
Also, would Verizon have suffered so badly if jailbroken/unlocked iPhones worked on its network??
No one outside of those talks knows what happened. No one knows what Apple said, and no one knows Verizon's response.
We have no idea if Apple showed them a prototype or not. I tend to doubt it, as AT&T stated that they went with Apple WITHOUT ever seeing one.
AT&T was actually the largest provider after the merger with Cingular right before Apple signed with them. It was Allitel's purchase almost two years later that brought Verizon ahead of AT&T. But AT&T is catching up with them, mostly thanks to the iPhone.
But AT&T is catching up with them, mostly thanks to the iPhone.
In the last quarter when the new iphone 3GS was launched --- AT&T managed to beat Verizon's net adds by a whopping quarter of a million subscribers in a quarter.
That's the best case scenario --- so realistically --- AT&T is not really catching up with Verizon.
In the last quarter when the new iphone 3GS was launched --- AT&T managed to beat Verizon's net adds by a whopping quarter of a million subscribers in a quarter.
That's the best case scenario --- so realistically --- AT&T is not really catching up with Verizon.
Realistically, they are.
Realistically, they are.
At current rate --- which is based on a very good iphone launch quarter --- it would take AT&T Wireless 8 YEARS to catch up to Verizon Wireless.
At current rate --- which is based on a very good iphone launch quarter --- it would take AT&T Wireless 8 YEARS to catch up to Verizon Wireless.
The duration it would take at current rate is not what was being discussed, but whether Verizon?s lead over AT&T was shrinking. Even if AT&T had only one more net subscriber over Verizion each quarter they would still be catching up and your comments would still be incorrect.
The duration it would take at current rate is not what was being discussed, but whether Verizon?s lead over AT&T was shrinking. Even if AT&T had only one more net subscriber over Verizion each quarter they would still be catching up and your comments would still be incorrect.
No, that's not what was being discussed.
What was discussed by melgross was how AT&T was catching up to Verizon because of the iphone (mostly).
You take out Tracfone's numbers (prepaid subscribers with about $13 a month ARPU) from AT&T's numbers --- aside from the last week's announcement, AT&T had NEVER beaten Verizon in terms of net adds.
The last quarter was the FIRST quarter EVER that AT&T has beaten Verizon in their retail subscriber net adds since the iphone was launched 2 years ago. And it was a "iphone launch" quarter --- which skewed the data heavily in favor of AT&T.
AT&T wins the iphone launch quarter but loses the other 3 quarters in the rest of the year.
No, that's not what was being discussed.
What was discussed by melgross was how AT&T was catching up to Verizon because of the iphone (mostly).
? and then write this...
The last quarter was the FIRST quarter EVER that AT&T has beaten Verizon in their retail subscriber net adds since the iphone was launched 2 years ago. And it was a "iphone launch" quarter --- which skewed the data heavily in favor of AT&T.
without seeing that eve what you write shows clearly that AT&T gained on Verizon by a quarter million subs last quarter. Amazing how some people?s brains can seemingly function in such a unique way.
It?s funny how you can write this?.
? and then write this...
without seeing that eve what you write shows clearly that AT&T gained on Verizon by a quarter million subs last quarter. Amazing how some people?s brains can seemingly function in such a unique way.
It's actually a lot smaller than a quarter of a million --- excluding merger-related net adds and Tracfone net adds, AT&T Wireless only had 1.153 million net adds. Verizon --- exclusing merger-related net adds and MVNO net adds, had 1.1 million net adds.
Imagine that an iphone launch quarter --- gave AT&T a "win" of 53000 net adds.
Imagine all the other quarters when the iphone is not launched --- winning one quarter and losing the other 3 quarters --- is still losing.
It's actually a lot smaller than a quarter of a million --- excluding merger-related net adds and Tracfone net adds, AT&T Wireless only had 1.153 million net adds. Verizon --- exclusing merger-related net adds and MVNO net adds, had 1.1 million net adds.
Imagine that an iphone launch quarter --- gave AT&T a "win" of 53000 net adds.
Imagine all the other quarters when the iphone is not launched --- winning one quarter and losing the other 3 quarters --- is still losing.
Exactly what part of 53000 more equates to moving father away. You can include as many or as few quarters as you wish, but the fact remains that AT&T bested Verizon last quarter and lessened the divide between them. You don?t have to like it, but you do have to accept it. The only lying here is how you wish to interpret these very simple stats.
Imagine all the other quarters when the iphone is not launched --- winning one quarter and losing the other 3 quarters --- is still losing.
At current rate --- which is based on a very good iphone launch quarter --- it would take AT&T Wireless 8 YEARS to catch up to Verizon Wireless.
Not necessarily. iPhone sales are moving up. Apple will sell a lot more this year in the US then last year. Next year, they will sell a lot more. At some point in the next few years, sales will slow down, unless Apple comes up with something new.
So AT&T may pick up a million extra subscribers than Verizon. Next year it could be 2 million. The next year, 3 million.
It?s funny how you can write this?.
? and then write this...
without seeing that eve what you write shows clearly that AT&T gained on Verizon by a quarter million subs last quarter. Amazing how some people?s brains can seemingly function in such a unique way.
Lol. Mismatching posts.
Prior to Verizon buying Alltel, AT&T was far ahead in subs. The gap was only growing wider. The only reason Verizon is ahead is because of Alltel.
No, the gap got narrower after Cingular bought AT&T Wireless. Verizon was winning the market share game after the Cingular/AT&T Wireless merger.
Not necessarily. iPhone sales are moving up. Apple will sell a lot more this year in the US then last year. Next year, they will sell a lot more. At some point in the next few years, sales will slow down, unless Apple comes up with something new.
So AT&T may pick up a million extra subscribers than Verizon. Next year it could be 2 million. The next year, 3 million.
You are basing your math --- based on an iphone launch quarter.
That's like going to shopping mall and just looking at the christmas season shopping traffic. What about the rest of the year.
After you take out merger related stuff and mvno's like tracfone --- the difference between the 2 carriers on an iphone launch quarter is 53000 subscribers.
Exactly what part of 53000 more equates to moving father away. You can include as many or as few quarters as you wish, but the fact remains that AT&T bested Verizon last quarter and lessened the divide between them. You don?t have to like it, but you do have to accept it. The only lying here is how you wish to interpret these very simple stats.
At what price is AT&T for this "win" and how durable is the "win".
You don't have to like it --- but I would rather win the whole war than winning a single battle at any given financial quarter.
No, the gap got narrower after Cingular bought AT&T Wireless. Verizon was winning the market share game after the Cingular/AT&T Wireless merger.
I'm talking about over the past year prior to Verizon buying Alltel. AT&T merged with Cingular in 2004. These are entirely two different moments in time. Are you willing to disrupt the space/time continuum in attempt to make Verizon look good?
I agree with you --- there are 2 different time periods. A 2004-2007 period (post Cingular/AT&T wireless merger but before the iphone was launched) where Verizon beats AT&T, period.
The second period is the post iphone launch period from 2007 on --- I think AT&T beat Verizon in 4 out of the 8 quarters. But that was all from Tracfone's strong numbers --- really nothing to do with the iphone or AT&T.
This past quarter is the FIRST quarter since the iphone was launched that AT&T won the numbers game --- all by themselves.
You are basing your math --- based on an iphone launch quarter.
That's like going to shopping mall and just looking at the christmas season shopping traffic. What about the rest of the year.
After you take out merger related stuff and mvno's like tracfone --- the difference between the 2 carriers on an iphone launch quarter is 53000 subscribers.
You number is suspect, because you're assuming that iPhone sales aren't going to grow. also your number is not necessarily correct on its own.