Apple's tablet will be more than a niche product - report

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  • Reply 41 of 238
    jupiteronejupiterone Posts: 1,564member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by cmf2 View Post


    It would go where you would typically take a netbook, as it would be of a similar size and function. No a 10" device isn't something you would take everywhere with you, unless you always had a bag, that doesn't mean there isn't a market for it. Ultimately we would need to see the feature set to figure out where it would go and who would buy one.



    That's true, but then is it that much different than taking your existing 13" or 15" MBP with you? I guess I'm trying to figure out if this device is going to be another Mac for those who want something portable and don't already have a MB or MBP. Or is it going to be something like an iPhone where everyone will want one and add it to their collection of computing equipment.
  • Reply 42 of 238
    abster2coreabster2core Posts: 2,501member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ThinkAdrian View Post


    Please add a stylus so I can use this as a sketch book! And a screen with brightess and contrast enoguh to use out doors.



    Then it would have to come with a glass 'glossy' screen.



    Right now my MacBook Pro with the matte screen doesn't compare with my friend's glossy under the same conditions. It is amazing the difference running them side by side.
  • Reply 43 of 238
    zunxzunx Posts: 620member
    The real McCoy is a tablet with Mac OS X inside and video-out port for Keynote and PowerPoint presentations. The iPhone OS (OS X) is too limited.
  • Reply 44 of 238
    I have just created a calendar event at the end of 2010, which says "Check Piper Jaffray's prediction on Apple Tablet, claiming that after one year about 2 million devices will be sold at an price of about $600 each". Those analysts predict so many things, and I have the feeling that nobody actually checks if the predictions have been correct. I will start with that now. For every prediction I read about in the news, I will create a calendar entry with what has been predicted, and I will then check if it was correct or not.



    You'll hear from me in 2010!
  • Reply 45 of 238
    Someone should set up a pool and take odds



    My guesses



    Price: $799; saying they won't sell if they're more than $599 is silly (quality is remembered long after the price is forgotten)

    Real estate: 10" display

    Weight: 1.5 pounds

    Basic design: Slab, not clamshell

    Cosmetics: Very similar to the current lineup of the pros and iPhone--black face rimmed in silver

    Functions: ebook, TV, games, etc,

    Chipset designed by PA semiconductor

    Ports: MBA like; mini-DVI, USB2/3, audio jacks

    Fantasies: USB3; OLED display

    Battery: 10 hours

    Memory: SSD 128-256Gb

    Sales: 5 million within 12 months,

    Launch: before christmas

    Prediction Design flaw: the glass surface will be prone to breakage--if I understand it correctly, there is no way around this (thin glass used as a keyboard) short of putting struts in the middle of the screen. APple will be forced to supply all of their stores with fixit kits and charge more for Applecare
  • Reply 46 of 238
    cmf2cmf2 Posts: 1,427member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by wolfneuralnet View Post


    Well Dave - thanks for calling me ignorant, which is why I don't normally post here - too many kids.



    As for your suggestions about how I change how I think about things, you clearly didn't understand what I said.



    I have no interest at all in iPhone versions of Word, Mail, or whatever other mobile versions of these apps people would come up with. If I am on a ten-inch screen I want to use the full versions of these apps. And I want Dropbox syncing those documents immediately.



    I know damn well what the iPhone OS is and what it is capable of, and I don't WANT it on a 10" tablet. I want everything that is in OSX (Time Machine, etc.).



    What I described is NOT an iPhone OS running on a Tablet.



    iPhone OS on a tablet is a deal killer for me - you can try and reframe it all you want, but it won't do everything I want it to do with the iPhone OS (and it is a different OS, with different APIs than OSX, no matter what you say.)



    I'm going to side with Dave here (not to the point of calling you ignorant though). OSX on a tablet sounds good, but when you get down to it, it would be a nightmare in terms of usability. Programs on OSX such as Word are not touch friendly, and some never will be. As long as you have a tablet running an operating system intitially designed for point and click cursor operation, there will be programs (or portions of the OS) that are a pain to operate on a touch screen. This is one of the major reasons that tablets have never gained any traction.



    iPhoneOS ensures that everything is touch friendly, and all that really limits the softwares potential is the hardware itself. There is no stopping Apple from creating a new Tablet only section of the App store. I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that you would prefer a touch friendly version of word or pages if it had all the features you needed from the OSX version. There is no reason why Apple couldn't include (or provide Apps for) Time Machine and Drop Box, although I would consider both to be highly doubtful, and you would likely be stuck with itunes sync for somewhat similar functions. A tablet running iPhoneOS doesn't mean that it will be a big iPhone, it just means that it will have a clean, consistent, and touch friendly UI.
  • Reply 47 of 238
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 12,912member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by brucep View Post


    WELL dave from 2001 movie

    the sony bookreader sells for 299

    which makes the iphone cheap



    2001 was a strange movie. In anyevent I'm recalling a scene in that movie where a guy was sitting at a table using or looking at a tablet computer. It was a little on the big size but I'm hoping for something similar from Apple. That is something thin and wide screen format.



    At least I'm hoping that was 2001. Getting old and mixing up movie scenes is a real possibility. Like wise if you watch Eureka they get most of the tablets wrong. Generally in Eureka they are to thick and squarish.



    It would be interesting to see which movie or TV show people think best represents what a tablet should be.





    Dave
  • Reply 48 of 238
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ranson View Post


    I disagree that it would be easier to enhance the iPhone OS than to make OS X more "touch friendly". I have had the opportunity to play around with one of the touch screen ModBooks, and it handles OS X via touch screen with relative ease -- and that's from a third party vendor. Photoshop was even pressure sensitive for tablet drawing. Clearly Piper Jaffray hasn't done all of the homework they can there. I'd put money on this thing running Snow Leopard.



    +1



    It's just a matter of making minor adaptations using Cocoa Touch. I bet Apple was already doing this during SL's development. And running iPhone OS on a 7-9" tablet is an UTTER waste of hardware.
  • Reply 49 of 238
    cmf2cmf2 Posts: 1,427member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by JupiterOne View Post


    That's true, but then is it that much different than taking your existing 13" or 15" MBP with you? I guess I'm trying to figure out if this device is going to be another Mac for those who want something portable and don't already have a MB or MBP. Or is it going to be something like an iPhone where everyone will want one and add it to their collection of computing equipment.



    Market research indicates that most people that buy netbooks buy them as secondary computers. A tablet running iPhone OS would fall into that same role as well. Obviously people without any form of portable computer would be more inclined to buy this, but if done right I could see many people buying this and a MBP. Keep in mind that many people use laptops like a desktop, but prefer the portability if they are not always staying in the same place.
  • Reply 50 of 238
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by cmf2 View Post


    I'm going to side with Dave here (not to the point of calling you ignorant though). OSX on a tablet sounds good, but when you get down to it, it would be a nightmare in terms of usability. Programs on OSX such as Word are not touch friendly, and some never will be. As long as you have a tablet running an operating system intitially designed for point and click cursor operation, there will be programs (or portions of the OS) that are a pain to operate on a touch screen. This is one of the major reasons that tablets have never gained any traction.



    iPhoneOS ensures that everything is touch friendly, and all that really limits the softwares potential is the hardware itself. There is no stopping Apple from creating a new Tablet only section of the App store. I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that you would prefer a touch friendly version of word or pages if it had all the features you needed from the OSX version. There is no reason why Apple couldn't include (or provide Apps for) Time Machine and Drop Box, although I would consider both to be highly doubtful, and you would likely be stuck with itunes sync for somewhat similar functions. A tablet running iPhoneOS doesn't mean that it will be a big iPhone, it just means that it will have a clean, consistent, and touch friendly UI.



    I think the issue here is whether they are going to make OSX more touch friendly, or come out with an upgraded OS for the tablet based on the current iPhone OS. Each option clearly has problems.



    If they made a separate section of the store for Tablet software, we would then have to wait for many of the existing software packages to come up with a Tablet version, and see how compromised they are for normal use before passing judgement on it. Its going to take forever to get that off the ground though for things like Office. Unfortunately, ease of use of Office docs is going to be a big issue.



    However, I think it would be better to make the current desktop OS more touch friendly or at least allow people to run those applications if they want to. I for one would love a tablet that I could occasionally hook a wireless keyboard to in order to get some work done.



    I think it really matters which direction they want this device to go - functional for many things, or really a media device that can also do some word processing/email, but that doesn't have all the features one would need to supplant a laptop.



    I would be happier with an desktop OS based device that was tweaked for touch. Just my opinion. If you want a gaming, movie playing device that can also do some web-browsing, then the iTablet with iPhone OS is fine for you. I definitely need everything to sync quickly and easily so that I can work on documents, etc. quickly between different devices. This is one area the current iPhone based OS falls down completely - it has NO built-in file management system available to the user.



    Different people have different needs, but I think the main OS is the most flexible, and we should have the option to run it. Actually - wouldn't it be cool if the customer could choose? Then we could both have what we want
  • Reply 51 of 238
    yensid98yensid98 Posts: 302member
    All right this has gone too far. Apple hasn't even announced this product yet we have reports talking about a release date of early 2010, what OS it will be running, a price point of $600, and even how much it's going to sell in it's first year.



    The product has not been announced.



    We think ourselves an advanced civilization but here we are paying attention to these soothsayers predicting 2011 results for a product that does not officially exist.



    People are WAY too anxious for this product and bound to be disappointed. In the past rumors have been believed and proven false when Apple never announced the product. Remember the iPhone nano? There is something troubling and sad about this level of speculation and immediate belief. Do we have no minds of our own? Are we so infantilized that we demand realization of our dreams for satisfaction?



    Lets try not to fall into the hype and wait for an official announcement before speculating with this intensity.
  • Reply 52 of 238
    hmurchisonhmurchison Posts: 12,312member
    Still sounds like a niche product to me.



    Other than a larger screen there's nothing this tablet appears to do over an iPhone.

    If it doesn't do doc creation and run standard Mac apps then what's really the point?



    Apple's going to have to amaze to sell 2 million of this device at $600 a pop. The Apple TV sold but that's a product with a under 300 dollar pricepoint.
  • Reply 53 of 238
    While so many rumors indicate a 10" screen and very flashy design with super thin trim around the big screen, I would, from a practical user point of view, prefer a smaller foot print for more practical daily use. An ideal size for me would be a 6" or 7" screen with a solid leather cover, like those on a quality paper organizer. So that I can toss it around in my hand bag, without the "professional" notebook case.



    I am saying this because I use my NOKIA N810 MID on a daily basis and it is very handy to check RSS news, voip calls, email check, etc. Even its screen is just little over 4" in diagonal, its 800X480 display is close to what I expect.



    A tablet with 10" will be too close to the 13" macbook and carniblization is unavoidable. It also demands similar care and carry, which sacrifices its portability and practicality. A 6" or 7" ipad can be perfectly positioned between the 4" iphone and 13" macboook and offer a perfect balance between function, feature, and practicality. Screen resolution of 1280X800 will be more than sufficient.



    One more thing is the software, which is also Apple' strength. Iphone is a phone-centric and macbook is a conventional computer. The mid-size ipad can be MID, ebook reader, media player, GPS, PIM, so on and on. There is big room there to be covered. None of these functions can be better served by either the smaller iphone or ipod or the bigger macbook.



    Last but not least, the price should also be competitive, like 699 or 749. Above 800 will be hard. Walmart is offering full spec 15" Vista HP notebook at 298USD. How can Apple sell a "less" device for 500USD more?



    Yingkai
  • Reply 54 of 238
    gqbgqb Posts: 1,934member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by wolfneuralnet View Post


    Well Dave - thanks for calling me ignorant, which is why I don't normally post here - too many kids.



    As for your suggestions about how I change how I think about things, you clearly didn't understand what I said.



    I have no interest at all in iPhone versions of Word, Mail, or whatever other mobile versions of these apps people would come up with. If I am on a ten-inch screen I want to use the full versions of these apps. And I want Dropbox syncing those documents immediately.



    I know damn well what the iPhone OS is and what it is capable of, and I don't WANT it on a 10" tablet. I want everything that is in OSX (Time Machine, etc.).



    What I described is NOT an iPhone OS running on a Tablet.



    iPhone OS on a tablet is a deal killer for me - you can try and reframe it all you want, but it won't do everything I want it to do with the iPhone OS (and it is a different OS, with different APIs than OSX, no matter what you say.)



    Sounds like you won't be buying one then.

    The device will NOT be the magical desktop replacement you seem to want.
  • Reply 55 of 238
    cmf2cmf2 Posts: 1,427member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by wolfneuralnet View Post


    Different people have different needs, but I think the main OS is the most flexible, and we should have the option to run it. Actually - wouldn't it be cool if the customer could choose? Then we could both have what we want



    That would be nice, but I'd place my bets on the iPhoneOS being more popular.



    Apple could already be working with some of the larger software companies (such as Microsoft) to ensure that there are some major tablet Apps available at launch.



    I think you glossed over some of the point I was trying to make (or it was poorly explained on my part) though.



    Things like multitasking, wireless keyboards, and current software functionality are not really limitations of iPhone OS but of the iPhone itself.



    Hopefully this tablet does come to fruition so that we can find out how wrong we all were.
  • Reply 56 of 238
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by cmf2 View Post


    I think you glossed over some of the point I was trying to make (or it was poorly explained on my part) though.



    Things like multitasking, wireless keyboards, and current software functionality are not really limitations of iPhone OS but of the iPhone itself.



    Hopefully this tablet does come to fruition so that we can find out how wrong we all were.



    I think this is one of Apple's specialties, and am waiting to be impressed and surprised.



    As for your point that those are limitations are the hardware, that is just not true. Apple could easily enable bluetooth functionality for the wireless keyboards on the iPhone, but have chosen not to at a software level. Same goes for multi-tasking (unless you are referring to battery life). If what you are saying is that the iPhone OS could do these things on a tablet as well, then I agree. I just don't want it to be limited. The poster above thinks it shouldn't be a magical desktop replacement. To which I say - why not? The hardware is capable - give us the option.
  • Reply 57 of 238
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by wolfneuralnet View Post


    Running the iPhone OS on this tablet would be a deal killer for me.



    I really am not interested in a larger version of the iPhone - the iPhone works just fine for what I need.



    However, a 10 inch machine that I could do some email and light word-processing on that would sync easily with my other desktop and laptop - that would be great.



    Hopefully I won't have to create a hackintosh in order to get this.





    I think iPhone OS is quite capable of handling light word-processing, and plenty of apps now can sync very well. Apple could even make a lite version of iWork (Pages, Keynote, Numbers) that would sync perfectly with your home machine. I think the current iWork online beta service is a test bed for just that.



    I hope they also expand the video, photo and audio editing capabilities so that it would be possible to actually put together a small blog or podcast.



    The key point in using the iPhone OS is that lots of developers are already in the program and there are millions of users, both Mac and Windoze.
  • Reply 58 of 238
    cmf2cmf2 Posts: 1,427member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by wolfneuralnet View Post


    I think this is one of Apple's specialties, and am waiting to be impressed and surprised.



    As for your point that those are limitations are the hardware, that is just not true. Apple could easily enable bluetooth functionality for the wireless keyboards on the iPhone, but have chosen not to at a software level. Same goes for multi-tasking (unless you are referring to battery life). If what you are saying is that the iPhone OS could do these things on a tablet as well, then I agree. I just don't want it to be limited. The poster above thinks it shouldn't be a magical desktop replacement. To which I say - why not? The hardware is capable - give us the option.



    All I meant was that Apple chooses not to enable those features in the iPhone and they could chose to enable them on a tablet. People hear tablet running iPhoneOS and think just a big iPhone, that is the notion I am trying to overcome. I would consider iPhoneOS to be a much better jumping off point than OSX, for the usability reasons I have described. Apple is big on user experience, and I don't think desktop Apps would cut it.
  • Reply 59 of 238
    MarvinMarvin Posts: 14,232moderator
    I think in order to avoid the niche, it will have to use Intel's Pine Trail Atom processors at a minimum so it can run all current software. I just don't see people buying what would essentially be a $600 ipod touch.



    I think it will be a big hit as a proper Mac though, especially among students. The CrunchPad gives a good idea of what to expect:



    http://www.techcrunch.com/2009/06/03...nch-prototype/

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gEni3OmohP8



    Apple's one should be very slim and the Pine Trail CPUs don't require a fan. Add in a 64-128GB SSD, 2GB Ram and it'll perform quite well.
  • Reply 60 of 238
    wigginwiggin Posts: 2,265member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by yingkai View Post


    While so many rumors indicate a 10" screen and very flashy design with super thin trim around the big screen, I would, from a practical user point of view, prefer a smaller foot print for more practical daily use. An ideal size for me would be a 6" or 7" screen with a solid leather cover, like those on a quality paper organizer. So that I can toss it around in my hand bag, without the "professional" notebook case.



    I am saying this because I use my NOKIA N810 MID on a daily basis and it is very handy to check RSS news, voip calls, email check, etc. Even its screen is just little over 4" in diagonal, its 800X480 display is close to what I expect.



    A tablet with 10" will be too close to the 13" macbook and carniblization is unavoidable. It also demands similar care and carry, which sacrifices its portability and practicality. A 6" or 7" ipad can be perfectly positioned between the 4" iphone and 13" macboook and offer a perfect balance between function, feature, and practicality. Screen resolution of 1280X800 will be more than sufficient.



    One more thing is the software, which is also Apple' strength. Iphone is a phone-centric and macbook is a conventional computer. The mid-size ipad can be MID, ebook reader, media player, GPS, PIM, so on and on. There is big room there to be covered. None of these functions can be better served by either the smaller iphone or ipod or the bigger macbook.



    Last but not least, the price should also be competitive, like 699 or 749. Above 800 will be hard. Walmart is offering full spec 15" Vista HP notebook at 298USD. How can Apple sell a "less" device for 500USD more?



    Yingkai



    +1 (minus the hand bag part )



    I would get an iPod touch, but it's screen is just too small to be of much use other than for one-trick-pony apps. But 10" is too big to carry around on a regular basis, and a screen that size will be harder to protect from damage making it even less of a "go everywhere" device.
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