Apple's tablet will be more than a niche product - report

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  • Reply 81 of 238
    anonymouseanonymouse Posts: 6,570member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by AdamIIGS View Post


    It's funny that you say this, at the starbucks where I live there is a woman who sets up her iMac at a table every day and uses it, and yes the large model, I don't know if she just moved here and doesn't have internet yet or what, but she has it in a suitcase with rollers and brings it in and sits there and works all day.



    http://forums.appleinsider.com/showp...0&postcount=17
  • Reply 82 of 238
    virgil-tb2virgil-tb2 Posts: 1,416member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by JupiterOne View Post


    Yes, but how practical is that? I carry my iPhone everywhere. Home, work, bars, clubs, the grocery store...it's always in my pocket. Something in the 10" size you're going to be carrying it in a sleeve or something, just like any other notebook. And I definitely don't carry my MBP everywhere with me.



    So I think a 10" device is just too big for a carry everywhere device like the iPhone. So it is going to be a niche product or something different for say, the home, that everyone would want to get?



    Just think of it as a lighter, more portable MacBook Pro. In other words a netbook.



    I don't think you have an argument calling a netbook or a MacBook or a MacBook Pro a "niche" product. It's a base-line portable computer. A "niche" product would be a product that has severely limited functionality or appeal. This thing seems by design to be aimed at broad functionality and broad appeal.
  • Reply 83 of 238
    virgil-tb2virgil-tb2 Posts: 1,416member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by AdamIIGS View Post


    It's funny that you say this, at the starbucks where I live there is a woman who sets up her iMac at a table every day and uses it, and yes the large model, I don't know if she just moved here and doesn't have internet yet or what, but she has it in a suitcase with rollers and brings it in and sits there and works all day. ...



    I'm a life-long pacifist and I've never hit anyone in anger, but people like this woman just need to be slapped if you ask me.



    Starbucks is so lame in this regard because they don't have any actual managers at the store. Usually just some silly 18 year old young thing with the *title* of manager.



    What's wrong with people today that someone would even think this was an okay thing to do, and that no one would ever call her on it?

  • Reply 84 of 238
    jupiteronejupiterone Posts: 1,564member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Virgil-TB2 View Post


    Just think of it as a lighter, more portable MacBook Pro. In other words a netbook.



    I don't think you have an argument calling a netbook or a MacBook or a MacBook Pro a "niche" product. It's a base-line portable computer. A "niche" product would be a product that has severely limited functionality or appeal. This thing seems by design to be aimed at broad functionality and broad appeal.



    I didn't mean to make it seem like I was calling them niche products because I wouldn't consider a netbook or MBP a niche product. I'm trying to guess what it might be. 1) A niche product, limited in scope or demographic, 2) Another portable option along with a MBP or 3) An "OMFG there's nothing else like it and I have to have it" device, like the iPhone.



    I think a lighter more portable MacBook Pro will still need to be carried like a MacBook Pro even if lighter. Which means it is not a carry everywhere device. But that's fine if it's just another portable option.....something to choose between a MBP or tablet, it would certainly serve a purpose.



    But I was trying to think if it could be something else. Something that would make everyone go nuts and rush out and buy it to add to their collection of Apple products.
  • Reply 85 of 238
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by al_bundy View Post


    $2000 for car DVD system

    $2000 for navigation



    $600 for itablet and you don't have to take a stack of DVD's along with you to keep the kids entertained



    Odd numbers.



    <200 for a portable DVD player in the car.

    <200 for a portable GPS navigation system.

    Nintendo DS or some such, 200?



    Now we are talking equal prices.
  • Reply 86 of 238
    mj webmj web Posts: 918member
    If it looked this dorky no one would buy it.

  • Reply 87 of 238
    dfilerdfiler Posts: 3,420member
    It's almost as if some people have perpetual amnesia, continuously forgetting the reasons why tablets are less popular than other form factors. It isn't that we don't have the technology. And it isn't for lack of thought or effort. Hundreds of millions of dollars have been sunk into developing tablets but every venture bumps into the same brick wall. For a large percentage of computing tasks, interacting with a tablet is cumbersome for humans. It isn't the technology that's the problem, but rather the physiology of humans.



    Tablets have to be held in one hand while using the other hand for interaction. Or it can be held with two hands and barely operated with both thumbs. Tablets can't be effectively used without holding the screen in a viewable position. The lack of a true keyboard is also key. Tasks involving much user input will be significantly slower and more aggravating on a tablet. This isn't something that can be overcome with technology.



    The reason why the iPhone succeeds while tablets haven't is because the iPhone is small enough to fit in a pocket. People are willing to put up with the limitations of the form factor because of the incredible convenience provided by having a computer on them at all times, without having to lug around a piece of protective luggage.



    Sorry to rain on the parade. It's just that tablet proponents constantly fall into the trap of thinking that tablets are new or un-thought-out. The reality is that they've been thought-out and rehashed continuously for nearly 20 years now. The problem isn't technology. Instead it's the very nature of how humans must interact with objects in the physical world.



    This is why I'm asserting that tablets will only gain wide scale use when they become dirt cheap. They simply aren't appealing enough unless the price is a non-issue. For the vast majority of humanity, tablets will always be relegated to the status of an auxiliary computer. At this point in time, auxiliary computers have to be cheap because they aren't truly necessary for our jobs or lifestyles.
  • Reply 88 of 238
    cmf2cmf2 Posts: 1,427member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by dfiler View Post


    It's almost as if some people have perpetual amnesia, continuously forgetting the reasons why tablets are less popular than other form factors. It isn't that we don't have the technology. And it isn't for lack of thought or effort. Hundreds of millions of dollars have been sunk into developing tablets but every venture bumps into the same brick wall. For a large percentage of computing tasks, interacting with a tablet is cumbersome for humans. It isn't the technology that's the problem, but rather the physiology of humans.



    Tablets have to be held in one hand while using the other hand for interaction. Or it can be held with two hands and barely operated with both thumbs. Tablets can't be effectively used without holding the screen in a viewable position. The lack of a true keyboard is also key. Tasks involving much user input will be significantly slower and more aggravating on a tablet. This isn't something that can be overcome with technology.



    The reason why the iPhone succeeds while tablets haven't is because the iPhone is small enough to fit in a pocket. People are willing to put up with the limitations of the form factor because of the incredible convenience provided by having a computer on them at all times, without having to lug around a piece of protective luggage.



    Sorry to rain on the parade. It's just that tablet proponents constantly fall into the trap of thinking that tablets are new or un-thought-out. The reality is that they've been thought-out and rehashed continuously for nearly 20 years now. The problem isn't technology. Instead it's the very nature of how humans must interact with objects in the physical world.



    This is why I'm asserting that tablets will only gain wide scale use when they become dirt cheap. They simply aren't appealing enough unless the price is a non-issue. For the vast majority of humanity, tablets will always be relegated to the status of an auxiliary computer. At this point in time, auxiliary computers have to be cheap because they aren't truly necessary for our jobs or lifestyles.



    Of course capacitive multitouch screens, lighter weights, stronger low power processors, better batteries, and operating systems designed from the ground up for touch wouldn't help a tablets chances at all. Also, I believe you are underestimating how much people would pay for such a device.



    You also got the reason why the iPhone succeeds completely wrong. There have been pocketable touchscreens before it, none have reached anywhere near the heights of the iPhone. There is more to the picture than what you have described, and if Apple does produce a tablet, I think you will see that there is more to that picture as well.
  • Reply 89 of 238
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by MJ Web View Post


    If it looked this dorky no one would buy it.



    No, THIS is a dorky tablet...



  • Reply 90 of 238
    bsenkabsenka Posts: 799member
    My biggest fear is that Apple will decide for people what they need instead of giving them what they want. They have a pretty bad track record lately of bait and switch when it comes to key features. They'll give you something really cool that you've never had before, but not without taking away something that you use every day.



    I cringe when I think of things they could do, like a tablet that is just a big iPhone (no tactile input, no file system, all apps must be bought/installed through the app store, restricted internet capabilities, etc).



    I know they COULD make something Insanely Great that makes all other netbooks and tablets look lame in comparison, I just fear that they won't.



    For me, the ideal would be an official Apple 10" version of the ModBook Pro (a real full-function Macbook Pro with a combination multitouch screen/wacom tablet, running the full current version of OS X), WITH a rotate-and-fold-to-hide real keyboard.
  • Reply 91 of 238
    cmf2cmf2 Posts: 1,427member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by bsenka View Post


    My biggest fear is that Apple will decide for people what they need instead of giving them what they want. They have a pretty bad track record lately of bait and switch when it comes to key features. They'll give you something really cool that you've never had before, but not without taking away something that you use every day.



    I cringe when I think of things they could do, like a tablet that is just a big iPhone (no tactile input, no file system, all apps must be bought/installed through the app store, restricted internet capabilities, etc).



    I know they COULD make something Insanely Great that makes all other netbooks and tablets look lame in comparison, I just fear that they won't.



    For me, the ideal would be an official Apple 10" version of the ModBook Pro (a real full-function Macbook Pro with a combination multitouch screen/wacom tablet, running the full current version of OS X), WITH a rotate-and-fold-to-hide real keyboard.



    They probably wont be making the tablet you want. Sadly Apple can't satisfy everybody, and what you want wouldn't sell well to the masses and it wouldn't come cheap...
  • Reply 92 of 238
    haggarhaggar Posts: 1,568member
    Why does everybody keep talking about flat tablets with no keyboards? There are other kinds of tablets, such as convertible tablets which are regular laptops with touchscreens that can swivel around and fold down over the keyboard. Wouldn't a convertible laptop running full Mac OS X be far more useful than an oversized iPhone?
  • Reply 93 of 238
    amorphamorph Posts: 7,112member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Haggar View Post


    Why does everybody keep talking about flat tablets with no keyboards? Wouldn't a convertible laptop with a touchscreen running full Mac OS X be far more useful than an oversized iPhone?



    Something that would be thicker, heavier, more unwieldy, more expensive and more fragile would not necessarily be more useful. Why buy that over a MacBook, especially since it would be guaranteed to cost more? At least you can use a tablet immediately in almost any position.



    The main limitation of the iPhone as a computer is its screen size. It could do many more tricks with a 10" screen, including intuitive multitasking. And I really don't think Apple have finished developing iPhone OS. It's still a puppy. There are a lot of tricks they can teach it. It already has 85% of Snow Leopard's code base.
  • Reply 94 of 238
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Haggar View Post


    Why does everybody keep talking about flat tablets with no keyboards? There are other kinds of tablets, such as convertible tablets which are regular laptops with touchscreens that can swivel around and fold down over the keyboard.



    But, that's a laptop, not a tablet. These tablets might be very useful for students or people who want access to digital books. The keyboard will probably be onscreen like the iPhone. That's a better solution for a device that's not meant to replace a laptop or impersonate a laptop.
  • Reply 95 of 238
    cmf2cmf2 Posts: 1,427member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Amorph View Post


    Something that would be thicker, heavier, more unwieldy, more expensive and more fragile would not necessarily be more useful. Why buy that over a MacBook, especially since it would be guaranteed to cost more? At least you can use a tablet immediately in almost any position.



    The main limitation of the iPhone as a computer is its screen size. It could do many more tricks with a 10" screen, including intuitive multitasking. And I really don't think Apple have finished developing iPhone OS. It's still a puppy. There are a lot of tricks they can teach it. It already has 85% of Snow Leopard's code base.



    I agree.



    Additionaly, Apple likes to keep their designs simple and clean. They wouldn't do a screen on a swivel hinge. It would also directly contradict their statement that people don't want cramped keyboards. the iPhone doesn't have a slide out keyboard, neither will a tablet.
  • Reply 96 of 238
    brucepbrucep Posts: 2,823member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post


    2001 was a strange movie. In anyevent I'm recalling a scene in that movie where a guy was sitting at a table using or looking at a tablet computer. It was a little on the big size but I'm hoping for something similar from Apple. That is something thin and wide screen format.



    At least I'm hoping that was 2001. Getting old and mixing up movie scenes is a real possibility. Like wise if you watch Eureka they get most of the tablets wrong. Generally in Eureka they are to thick and squarish.



    It would be interesting to see which movie or TV show people think best represents what a tablet should be.





    Dave



    star trek with the bald guy has the most tablets i think

    i wonder what chips can keep it cool to the touch

    yet give us ramming speed power



    remember the g 4 is dead

    a worldwide fever pitch this tablet thing
  • Reply 97 of 238
    dfilerdfiler Posts: 3,420member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by cmf2 View Post


    Of course capacitive multitouch screens, lighter weights, stronger low power processors, better batteries, and operating systems designed from the ground up for touch wouldn't help a tablets chances at all.



    From a hardware perspective, laptops face pretty much the same hurdles. As for software, there have been plenty of tablet OSes written for the ground up.



    Quote:

    You also got the reason why the iPhone succeeds completely wrong. There have been pocketable touchscreens before it, none have reached anywhere near the heights of the iPhone. There is more to the picture than what you have described, and if Apple does produce a tablet, I think you will see that there is more to that picture as well.



    There is certainly more to the picture.



    The reason why I mentioned size as paramount is because all tablet-resembling computers that have ever had even the slightest degree of success, have been small enough to fit in a pocket. The point being, the iPhone and a larger tablet are completely different devices. That slight difference in size has massive implications for how humans are willing to integrate the device into their life. The convenience of carrying a particular sized object will never change, regardless of technological advances.



    This isn't to say that larger tablet devices won't become more popular. It's just recognizing the reason why tablets haven't become popular while pocket computers and laptops/desktops have. At an extremely low price though, people will certainly adopt tablets into their computing usage. But for the most part, that usage will supplement their current computing, not replace it.



    [EDIT]

    Laptops, and even desktops for that matter, could also bennefit from multi-touch. The key is price. For the given price, the masses have repeatedly spoken, they don't want to pay for computers with touch screens (and touch interfaces)... yet. When touch screens become ridiculously cheap, we will without a doubt see touch interfaces integrated into our daily lives. Desktops and laptops too, not just tablets, will benefit from that technology. By that point though, people will likely have also adopted tablets for certain tasks. I doubt they will carry them around too much more than we see today though.
  • Reply 98 of 238
    antkm1antkm1 Posts: 1,441member
    My Initial thought would be this:

    $499 - $699 for this? It's just a jumbo iPod Touch with multi-tasking? Well, if that's true, i'd rather have a $399 netbook and be done with it. at least i won't have to prop it up on my lap and deal with a touch keyboard.
  • Reply 99 of 238
    fjpoblamfjpoblam Posts: 126member
    ...with the spate of enthusiastic censorship Apple has recently piled upon iPhone apps, I strongly hesitate.



    It detracts from the tablet's usefulness in the extreme. Software stagnation!
  • Reply 100 of 238
    cmf2cmf2 Posts: 1,427member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by dfiler View Post


    From a hardware perspective, laptops face pretty much the same hurdles. As for software, there have been plenty of tablet OSes written for the ground up.



    As laptops have gotten thinner and more powerful, they have become more and more popular. Now we are coming to a point where people are saying the desktop is dead. Technological advances can and do move products forward. As far as input methods go, the advances in touch screen technology mean a lot to a tablet, just like good trackpads have helped laptops. For example, how many laptops would there be if we still had to use that little nub placed in the middle of the keyboard instead of a trackpad?



    When most people think of a tablet, they think of a tablet running some form of Windows, which was not made for touch from the ground up, nor were its programs. I wouldn't mind reading up on some of the operating systems made for touch from the ground up that were used on tablets if you have any examples (I'm not familar with them so I wouldn't be able to argue their strengths or flaws, although one obvious weakness would be lack of software support if they weren't windows, iPhoneOS wouldn't have that problem).



    Edit: Laptops becoming cheaper had a lot to do with their growth too, which would support your point. However, I think an Apple tablet in the $600 - $700 range (possibly less with a 3G contract) would sell well. I think that would represent a significant enough drop for many people to purchase them.
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