Apple's iTunes 9 rumored to have Blu-ray, social media support

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  • Reply 81 of 248
    antkm1antkm1 Posts: 1,441member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by CanadianMac2008 View Post


    Yes, very much agreed. iTunes is a great concept and I like it, BUT, it us WAY too slow and basically suffers from feature bloat. They need to completely rethink their implementation of everything from the groundup. Give us a completely new iTunes.



    Totally agree with you. And i thought iTunes was so slow because i'm using a PC it's way slower than any single program i have. I second the iTunes Reboot idea. And when the heck are they going to let us download our movies to iTunes!!! Come on Apple...get with it. DVD's have only been around for like 20 years already! Figure out the licensing and coding so i can watch my DVD's on my Apple TV put the discs in storage!!! It's crazy they haven't done this yet. It works for Music, so why not movies?



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by str1f3 View Post


    I really don't care about this stuff and I'm guessing that most iTunes users (Mac & Windows) feel the same way. I want a faster 64-bit Cocoa app. I could care less about social networking in a media player. iTunes is the slowest app on my Mac. Even slower than Office now because of SP2.



    I had to look up "Cocoa" because i'm not an IT person. Personally, i think for Apple to cater to people wining about not having a "Cocoa" version is just unrealistic. I'd like to see a quote of how many Mac Users actually use Cocoa or even know what it is. Then we can start asking Apple for favors...



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by bobmarleypeople View Post


    Here's hoping they'll release a standalone Apple Blu-ray drive (or have compatibility with 3rd party ones). My Blu-ray player is a fairly early model and takes about 5/6 minutes to load a disc (and is only profile 1 compatible, so no picture-in-picture or online content for me at the moment). I get the feeling my iMac could handle it just fine. It'd have to be a firewire connection though. I doubt USB will be fast enough (plus I've ran out of USB ports and have a Firewire 800 port free).



    As much as i doubt they will, i wouldn't put it past them. Personally, i think what they mean by "Blu-Ray Support" is for iMovie or Premiere or Final Cut Pro. A lot of video cameras now have standard HDTV resolution and it would be tough to make copies of these home movies without Blu-Ray support. Also, a lot of Podcasts out there may want to offer HD versions as well. So that's my thought.
  • Reply 82 of 248
    antkm1antkm1 Posts: 1,441member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by dbfreq View Post


    The BluRay licensing association (whatever their official name is) approved Managed Copy in the past month or two. Licensing also became significantly more reasonable at the same time. They can see the writing on the wall -- downloads are going to make physical media obsolete over the next 2-4 years and they want to make as much money as they can with the higher-margin BluRay media while they can, so making licensing easier and cheaper and allowing people to store copies of their discs on their hard drives only makes sense. I wonder whether DVD will start to make similar concessions?



    As much as you'd like to think this is true, i really doubt it. VHS is still in production, hate to break it to you; even though stores don't sell them, they still exist and people are using them. How's that for a shocker. So i don't think your time frame of 2-4 years is accurate. I really love reading how all you people out there think that digital media is going to make physical media obsolete. Hate to break it to you for a second time. but not everyone has a digital home storage system. I would say less than 1% (my prediction) of all households own some kind of digital storage (other than a DVR).



    Computers crash, hard drives crash. Storage is lost in computer glitches. Back-ups are fogotten and time consuming and costly. Most people don't have a second back-up hard drive. You're never going to replace Physical media, at least not in the next 15-20 years is my prediction. Try telling a 40-60 year old with no computer and a storage cabinet full of VHS' and DVD's that digital downloads are taking over and they'll have to replace everything.



    This will make you laugh:

    http://www2.panasonic.com/webapp/wcs...72009023243932
  • Reply 83 of 248
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by antkm1 View Post


    As much as you'd like to think this is true, i really doubt it. VHS is still in production, hate to break it to you; even though store don't sell them, they still exist and people are using them. How's that for a shocker. So i don't think your time frame of 2-4 years is inaccurate. I really love reading how all you people out there think that digital media is going to make physical media obsolete. Hate to break it to you for a second time. but not everyone has a digital home storage system. I would say less than 1% (my prediction) of all households own some kind of digital storage (other than a DVR).



    Computers crash, hard drives crash. Storage is lost in computer glitches. Back-ups are fogotten and time consuming and costly. Most people don't have a second back-up hard drive. You're never going to replace Physical media, at least not in the next 15-20 years is my prediction. Try telling a 40-60 year old with no computer and a storage cabinet full of VHS' and DVD's that digital downloads are taking over and they'll have to replace everything.



    This will make you laugh:

    http://www2.panasonic.com/webapp/wcs...72009023243932



    Nice one there.
  • Reply 84 of 248
    antkm1antkm1 Posts: 1,441member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by BenRoethig View Post


    It isn't compelling to you. There are many with a different opinion.



    Here, here! I'm glad to see i'm not the only one on these forums that think like you.



    [/QUOTE]Hopefully, they're finally rolling DVD player into iTunes. It (and quicktime for that matter) should have been merged in iTunes years ago. We only need one media app.[/QUOTE]



    Well, what if you don't want all your videos in iTunes? Not all videos or short clips that i own are iTunes compatible, even though they are playable in quicktime. I have vacation movies and clips that i want to just quickly view, without the time consuming task of opening iTunes, quicktime works just fine for me.
  • Reply 85 of 248
    antkm1antkm1 Posts: 1,441member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SGSStateStudent View Post


    Nice one there.



    yeah, i think it's funny that a lot of reality TV shows only want video tape when receiving submissions for casting (i.e. The Amazing Race and Survivor). My guess is that the TV industry still relies on VHS or tape-based media since digital is too easy to manipulate.
  • Reply 86 of 248
    antkm1antkm1 Posts: 1,441member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    I bought an aTv a while ago. I also have B-R.



    If I have a B-R disk, and get the same movie in 720 from Apple, the B-R version just kills it. It isn't very close either.



    Of course, you have to have a big enough set, and you have to be sitting at the correct distance.



    If you have a small 42" set, and you're sitting ten feet away, then you probably won't see much of a difference at all.



    Again, I have to say it kills me to see all you people with these inflated ideas of big, small, good, bad, etc...



    A 42" TV is NOT small!!! If you compare the vertical dimension to a standard 4:3 TV it's about equivalent to a 36" TV. That was considered a BIG TV before 16:9 TVs came out.



    However, i do agree that BD kills Apple TV with 720p playback. And, as i've stated in previous posts...license or not, I think it's ridiculous that if you want to watch a movie you already own on DVD or BD on your iPhone or iPod, you have to buy the it again!!! Sorry apple, that marketing strategy is about a flimsy as Panasonic's dual deck BD/VHS i posted a couple up...
  • Reply 87 of 248
    brucepbrucep Posts: 2,823member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by antkm1 View Post


    A



    ..license or not, I think it's ridiculous that if you want to watch a movie you already own on DVD or BD on your iPhone or iPod, you have to buy the it again!!! Sorry apple, that marketing strategy is about a flimsy as Panasonic's dual deck BD/VHS i posted a couple up...



    Why do i have re buy scores of discs to BD when HD is already here.

    Even ROKU netflix HAS HD and apple itunes has HD . BLURAY lost .

    FOR A 50 dollar machine they charge 800 dollars /
  • Reply 88 of 248
    antkm1antkm1 Posts: 1,441member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by brucep View Post


    Why do i have re buy scores of discs to BD when HD is already here.

    Even ROKU netflix HAS HD and apple itunes has HD . BLURAY lost .

    FOR A 50 dollar machine they charge 800 dollars /



    I agree that BD is way too expensive. I'm not sure where you shop but i got my panasonic BD player for $299 at best buy, which is pretty average. Now i'm not saying that isn't a rip-off either, but that's what DVD players cost after being on the market for 2 years. And yes, BD movies are crazy expenisve. If they really want to compete with Digital and DVD sales, they need to make the movies close enough in price to make worth it.



    I, for one, only buy movies for the special features. If i like a movie enough, i will buy it, but really only for the special stuff. Like LOTR. now you can't get the 8+ hours of bonus content from those extended editions on iTunes can you? Thought so. Plus, Netflix is just such a better deal than iTunes movie rentals. I can watch as many DVD/BD movies as i like and instant download for $18 a month. I'd like to say that iTunes single use rentals are just as cheap but they are far off the mark.



    Now, look at what it costs to buy a HD movie on iTunes...$19.99. I just bought the Extended Edition of "Watchmen" with the digital copy and all bonus features for $19.99 at Best Buy. Prices are coming down and you get so much more with physical media still.
  • Reply 89 of 248
    antkm1antkm1 Posts: 1,441member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by brucep View Post


    Why do i have re buy scores of discs to BD when HD is already here.

    Even ROKU netflix HAS HD and apple itunes has HD . BLURAY lost .

    FOR A 50 dollar machine they charge 800 dollars /



    you also seem to miss the point with Netflix. They RELY on DVD and BD for business. If BD and DVD die, then so does Netflix.
  • Reply 90 of 248
    wigginwiggin Posts: 2,265member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by antkm1 View Post


    As much as you'd like to think this is true, i really doubt it. VHS is still in production, hate to break it to you; even though stores don't sell them, they still exist and people are using them. How's that for a shocker. So i don't think your time frame of 2-4 years is accurate. I really love reading how all you people out there think that digital media is going to make physical media obsolete. Hate to break it to you for a second time. but not everyone has a digital home storage system. I would say less than 1% (my prediction) of all households own some kind of digital storage (other than a DVR).



    Computers crash, hard drives crash. Storage is lost in computer glitches. Back-ups are fogotten and time consuming and costly. Most people don't have a second back-up hard drive. You're never going to replace Physical media, at least not in the next 15-20 years is my prediction. Try telling a 40-60 year old with no computer and a storage cabinet full of VHS' and DVD's that digital downloads are taking over and they'll have to replace everything.



    This will make you laugh:

    http://www2.panasonic.com/webapp/wcs...72009023243932



    One thing the link to the BD/VHS player also demonstrates is that people don't want a dozen boxes connected to their TVs. I think this is one of the major failings of the AppleTV. It's yet another box to connect, and it doesn't allow me to get rid of any of the boxes I already have. If they had put a DVD player in it it really wouldn't have increased the production cost much, and I think it would have little impact to iTunes sales (because if I want to own the physical disc, I'm going to buy the physical disc regardless). A DVD player would be the perfect Trojan horse to get AppleTVs into living rooms. Then let people discover the convenience of online video renting, buying the TV episodes you forget to record, etc. Instead, they went straight for forced reliance for iTunes content and as a result have a much smaller installed base.



    As for the rest of your post, I agree wholeheartedly. Many of us on these forums have good home theater PC set-ups, we have large storage systems with backup, and fat broadband pipes. Most people don't have that. And until they do, downloaded movies are not ideal. Another issue with downloaded content...what happens to the content when you and your significant other breakup/divorce, or when your kids go off to college, or you die? Who ones it? How do you transfer ownership? It essentially become a lifetime license to the person who purchased it. You can't sell, trade, or give it away.



    Downloaded content is great for renting, but it's a bad purchase proposition unless it's significantly discounted from the cost of physical media (and it's not).
  • Reply 91 of 248
    tenobelltenobell Posts: 7,014member
    Quicktime doesn't support DVD, I seriously doubt it will support Blu-ray.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Hattig View Post


    I presume that also means BluRay support in Quicktime?



  • Reply 92 of 248
    antkm1antkm1 Posts: 1,441member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Wiggin View Post


    One thing the link to the BD/VHS player also demonstrates is that people don't want a dozen boxes connected to their TVs. I think this is one of the major failings of the AppleTV. It's yet another box to connect, and it doesn't allow me to get rid of any of the boxes I already have. If they had put a DVD player in it it really wouldn't have increased the production cost much, and I think it would have little impact to iTunes sales (because if I want to own the physical disc, I'm going to buy the physical disc regardless). A DVD player would be the perfect Trojan horse to get AppleTVs into living rooms. Then let people discover the convenience of online video renting, buying the TV episodes you forget to record, etc. Instead, they went straight for forced reliance for iTunes content and as a result have a much smaller installed base.



    Downloaded content is great for renting, but it's a bad purchase proposition unless it's significantly discounted from the cost of physical media (and it's not).



    Yeah, I think most of the weak points about the aTV are in Job's dislike for physical media. You know if that guy wasn't so stubborn about stuff we'd never have the iPod or iMac, but...that ego can also hurt great products, like the aTV. totally agree with you.
  • Reply 93 of 248
    tenobelltenobell Posts: 7,014member
    I disagree with that its a flimsy excuse. Ten years ago CD was a superior option in every respect. It was superior storage and playback medium.



    The only advantage BR has is storing an HD movie on a portable disc. Other than that BR has no real advantages over many other options. The fact that Apple would need to implement more DRM in OS X is a minus.



    Its only a matter of time as the price of flash memory comes down. They will be able to sell movies on SD cards. You slip them into the slot in your television or computer and enjoy 1080P.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    Apple should allow the option. It's a flimsy excuse to look at the price. When Apple included CD, it was very expensive. Same thing with DVD. Blu-Ray is no different. In fact, in inflated dollars, B-R is cheaper than either CD or DVD was when Apple included them.



    The only difference is that back then, Apple had no download business to push. Now it does.



  • Reply 94 of 248
    tenobelltenobell Posts: 7,014member
    Blu-ray may stand a chance if the disc price come down to $5-$10 at Wal-mart. Few people are ever going to buy discs at $20-$30.



    I've seen people watching a horrible $5 bootleg on an HD television. The majority of the consumer market cares about price far more than quality.





    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    I bought an aTv a while ago. I also have B-R.



    If I have a B-R disk, and get the same movie in 720 from Apple, the B-R version just kills it. It isn't very close either.



    Of course, you have to have a big enough set, and you have to be sitting at the correct distance.



    If you have a small 42" set, and you're sitting ten feet away, then you probably won't see much of a difference at all.



  • Reply 95 of 248
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,570member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by webraider View Post


    Especially when Windows already has this. It's quite frankly embarrassing that Apple doesn't have it.



    Yes. It's very annoying.



    It should be up to the users whether they want to watch a movie on their computer or not.



    In fact, I've watched more than a few DVDs on my 24" monitor. They look very good, better than they do on many widescreen Tvs. B-R would look better. And certainly, those with 30" monitors would appreciate this.
  • Reply 96 of 248
    tenobelltenobell Posts: 7,014member
    Streaming/downloads is the future. Clinging to physical media is clinging to the old business model and not embracing the future. That's why Sony is in the terrible shape its in now.



    I agree that Jobs is being stubborn to the detriment of ATV. The problem is forcing ATV to be locked to iTunes and not opening it to other services. The ATV would be a much more popular device if it were open to Hulu, Netflix, and iPlayer. It would be much more able to replace the cable box and the physical media player.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by antkm1 View Post


    Yeah, I think most of the weak points about the aTV are in Job's dislike for physical media. You know if that guy wasn't so stubborn about stuff we'd never have the iPod or iMac, but...that ego can also hurt great products, like the aTV. totally agree with you.



  • Reply 97 of 248
    pt123pt123 Posts: 696member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by antkm1 View Post


    Try telling a 40-60 year old with no computer and a storage cabinet full of VHS' and DVD's that digital downloads are taking over and they'll have to replace everything.

    [/url]



    Not just the 60 year old with the computer, but most people who look a little deeper into digital downloads too. The iTunes HD movies is less than 5 Mbps. Most of those folks isn't going to upgrade from DVD's to this. Even the average guy with a bunch of DVD's won't upgrade to digital downloads. Try selling him a device that play digital download but will not work with any of the DVD's he already owns.
  • Reply 98 of 248
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,570member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by antkm1 View Post


    Again, I have to say it kills me to see all you people with these inflated ideas of big, small, good, bad, etc...



    A 42" TV is NOT small!!! If you compare the vertical dimension to a standard 4:3 TV it's about equivalent to a 36" TV. That was considered a BIG TV before 16:9 TVs came out.



    However, i do agree that BD kills Apple TV with 720p playback. And, as i've stated in previous posts...license or not, I think it's ridiculous that if you want to watch a movie you already own on DVD or BD on your iPhone or iPod, you have to buy the it again!!! Sorry apple, that marketing strategy is about a flimsy as Panasonic's dual deck BD/VHS i posted a couple up...



    I don't say "small" pejoratively. I say it because I know, and read of so many people who think that at their normal viewing distance, they can appreciate 1080p with a 42" set, which is the most popular size, though larger sets are being bought more now that prices have dropped.



    I say small because in order to get the full resolution of 1080p from it, a person with 20/20 vision needs to sit no further than 5 feet away. How many people do that? In order to see the full 720p you need to sit no further away than 8 feet. Even that's closer than most people sit.



    So for the average seating distance that most people have, a 42" set is "small".



    These numbers are based on known, and agreed upon viewing abilities of people, it's not an opinion.
  • Reply 99 of 248
    tenobelltenobell Posts: 7,014member
    You are only looking at one of two options. Buy a physical disc or buy a digital download. While many people don't do either of those two. There are many many other options for watching movies and television.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by antkm1 View Post


    Now, look at what it costs to buy a HD movie on iTunes...$19.99. I just bought the Extended Edition of "Watchmen" with the digital copy and all bonus features for $19.99 at Best Buy. Prices are coming down and you get so much more with physical media still.



  • Reply 100 of 248
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,570member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by brucep View Post


    Why do i have re buy scores of discs to BD when HD is already here.

    Even ROKU netflix HAS HD and apple itunes has HD . BLURAY lost .

    FOR A 50 dollar machine they charge 800 dollars /



    First of all, B-R has not "lost". It's growing faster than DVD did at the same time after its introduction. It hasn't been very long since Toshiba gave up the ghost with HD-DVD. That's the actual beginning of the format. In fact, Toshiba finally admitted that they will be making B-D themselves, after first saying that they wouldn't. Too much money being left on the table they've said.



    In addition, we're in the middle of the worst recession around the entire world since the Great Depression of the 1930's. Bringing out a new format during that time is very difficult.



    You can now get B-R players for $250, and by the holiday, it's expected we'll see them for $200, possibly less. Movies on the format have dropped considerably in price as well.



    Downloaded HD movies look terrible when compared to the same movie on B-R. That's very easy to see.
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