Apple's iTunes 9 rumored to have Blu-ray, social media support

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  • Reply 101 of 248
    wigginwiggin Posts: 2,265member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post


    Streaming/downloads is the future. Clinging to physical media is clinging to the old business model and not embracing the future. That's why Sony is in the terrible shape its in now.



    Yes, but it's much farther off than many bleeding-edgers would like to think. Just like Beta vs VHS and blu-ray vs HD DVD slowed the adoption of those new formats, the many different sources and incompatibilities of various download services is going to greatly slow its adoption.



    Think 5-7 years.
  • Reply 102 of 248
    tenobelltenobell Posts: 7,014member
    double
  • Reply 103 of 248
    tenobelltenobell Posts: 7,014member
    Exactly what are you saying will happen in 5 - 7 years?



    I'm not saying I expect streaming/downloading to become the dominant way people watch video. I am saying it will quickly become one of the primary ways.



    I do agree however that lack of compatibility and ubiquity that the physical media formats have has stunted the growth of downloads.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Wiggin View Post


    Yes, but it's much farther off than many bleeding-edgers would like to think. Just like Beta vs VHS and blu-ray vs HD DVD slowed the adoption of those new formats, the many different sources and incompatibilities of various download services is going to greatly slow its adoption.



    Think 5-7 years.



  • Reply 104 of 248
    antkm1antkm1 Posts: 1,441member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Wiggin View Post


    Yes, but it's much farther off than many bleeding-edgers would like to think. Just like Beta vs VHS and blu-ray vs HD DVD slowed the adoption of those new formats, the many different sources and incompatibilities of various download services is going to greatly slow its adoption.



    Think 5-7 years.



    I'd guess again before predicting the demise of BD. it took VHS almost 30 years before it' finally died in 2006 to the commercial market. If you want to predict the end of Phyical Media, a safe bet would be 20 years more.
  • Reply 105 of 248
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,570member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post


    I disagree with that its a flimsy excuse. Ten years ago CD was a superior option in every respect. It was superior storage and playback medium.



    At the time, you could see the difference between the really bad VHS and DVD on the average Tv. On a good Tv, like my XBR, the difference was greater. So, yes, there was a big improvement.



    Quote:

    The only advantage BR has is storing an HD movie on a portable disc. Other than that BR has no real advantages over many other options. The fact that Apple would need to implement more DRM in OS X is a minus.



    I don't agree with this. First of all, no one can argue that B-R isn't a much higher quality than DVD. Not only is it sharper, but the color is better as well. On a good Tv this is pretty obvious.



    On a good 24" or larger monitor, it's even more obvious, and decent monitors have better color and sharpness than even LCD and plasma sets.



    I enjoy B-R on my Tv, and the difference between that and the DVD version is quite noticeable.



    And honestly, I couldn't care less about the DRM. That's not a real issue. All downloadable movies, Tv shows, and videos are already DRM heavy. If the ability to use DRM for B-R is implemented, it would only affect B-R playback. And what DVD isn't full of DRM? The OS already needs to recognize that, so don't kid yourself about DRM.



    Quote:

    Its only a matter of time as the price of flash memory comes down. They will be able to sell movies on SD cards. You slip them into the slot in your television or computer and enjoy 1080P.



    I doubt we'll see that for a long time, if ever. I can't see any advantage to that at this point. In order to hold a movie at the quality level of a B-R movie, the stick will need to be 25 GB at least. Until those sticks, with packaging, drop to $1 apiece, about what it costs to do a DVD with artwork and jewel case, it won't be competitive. And the cost of producing B-R movies is dropping rapidly with the construction of new plants in China and elsewhere. It will be at that level in another couple of years at the latest.



    It will also take a good 8 years or so for downloading to be practical for most people. At least a 10Mb/s connection will be required, and that's a minimum. 50 Mb/s is more practical. If we want to see a movie on our increasingly larger sets, we're going to need less compression as time goes by. how long would it take you to download a full quality B-R movie? What about the extras that they give, and people like?



    Spontaneity goes out the door with downloads unless the speed is good enough, or you also have the bandwidth for streaming. When will Apple. or others stream a full quality 1080p with 5 channel sound over the internet?
  • Reply 106 of 248
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,570member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post


    Blu-ray may stand a chance if the disc price come down to $5-$10 at Wal-mart. Few people are ever going to buy discs at $20-$30.



    I've seen people watching a horrible $5 bootleg on an HD television. The majority of the consumer market cares about price far more than quality.



    Most B-R movies these days are going for under $20. Many are $15. You can find older ones on sale on Amazon and other places, J&R for example for under $10. Price isn't an issue.
  • Reply 107 of 248
    antkm1antkm1 Posts: 1,441member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post


    Exactly what are you saying will happen in 5 - 7 years?



    I'm not saying I expect streaming/downloading to become the dominant way people watch video. I am saying it will quickly become one of the primary ways.



    I do agree however that lack of compatibility and ubiquity that the physical media formats have has stunted the growth of downloads.



    Ok man...you should first read up the page a bit to see all the arguments as to why digital media will probably not be fully accepted; so i don't have to repeat things.



    I for one think physical media will be around for a very long time. BD, DVD, chips, whatever. there will be physical media. you just can't get past the fact that:



    1. maybe less than 1% of users actually back up their stuff on a secondary hard disc; or even own a 2nd hard drive.

    2. people don't want to re-purchase what they already have digitally. Hopefully Apple is working on this.

    3. hard drives last up to 5-7 years on most normal computers. so once that crashes, you're screwed. Optical Discs from the factory (meaning the movie quality ones) typically can last up to 100 years.

    4. transferring of digital licenses is a pain, from what i've read, i've never had a problem transferring music from one computer to another but we'll see.

    5. No additional features or content on digital. Physical copies have way more special features. No commentaries on digital copies.

    6. BD is coming down (see my post about "Watchmen" extended copy for $19.99 at Best Buy, vs. the iTunes copy standard HD version for the same price.)



    To me, Digital Downloads will be the new rental service, but not the be-all, end-all of home entertainment. It's just a large piece of the Home Theater Puzzle.
  • Reply 108 of 248
    cubertcubert Posts: 728member
    Yeah, but with the recent changes in Blu-Ray licensing it is now more a bag of pinch.
  • Reply 109 of 248
    pt123pt123 Posts: 696member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post


    I disagree with that its a flimsy excuse. Ten years ago CD was a superior option in every respect. It was superior storage and playback medium.



    The only advantage BR has is storing an HD movie on a portable disc. Other than that BR has no real advantages over many other options. The fact that Apple would need to implement more DRM in OS X is a minus.



    Its only a matter of time as the price of flash memory comes down. They will be able to sell movies on SD cards. You slip them into the slot in your television or computer and enjoy 1080P.



    Another advantage for BR is the player will play my existing DVD collection. Digital downloads and SD cards mean cutting ties with my old media. I don't think being superior storage is going to obsolete optical media. Most people will look at price first.
  • Reply 110 of 248
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,570member
    We're already seeing sales of B-R players drop below $200. I just got this e-mail from J&R. By Christmas, when player prices are expected to drop to $200 as the regular price, we'll see even lower sale pricing. And after that, it will move even lower.



    http://www.jr.com/sharp/pe/SHA_BDHP2...dSale.08072009
  • Reply 111 of 248
    virgil-tb2virgil-tb2 Posts: 1,416member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by antkm1 View Post


    ... I ... only buy movies for the special features. ...



    This right here, puts you in the tiniest of minorities out of those that buy movies. Most people who buy movies buy them to own or collect the movies themselves.



    The vast majority of the movie buying public doesn't care at all about the supposed extras that they shovel onto the disc. The "extra content" thing was revealed to be mostly a scam years and years ago. Almost all you get is advertisements for other movies or promotions for the movie you have already bought. Not one movie company has ever used the full capabilities of the DVD medium for "extras" as they were originally envisioned when the format was designed.



    Most buyers, when asked in a survey, would rather have them taken off the disc given that they are mostly advertisements and that the viewer is "locked in" to viewing said advertisements when they don't even want to. I bought a disc just last week for $45 and I had to watch 15 minutes of advertisements before I was *allowed* to access the movie.



    While some of the better dics like criterion etc. have some valuable extras, the majority of movie extras are junk and most people would rather not have them at all.
  • Reply 112 of 248
    iTunes already has an extraordinary social capacity that is seriously underdeveloped, in the form of Library Sharing. The fact that Sharing does not does not already have basic social tools - you can't chat, comment, or even log what items in my Library people have been checking out (duh! )- is a stunning oversight that I hope will be soon addressed. All those iPod Touches and iPhones provide interesting possibilities for viral and site-specific ambient distribution, too.
  • Reply 113 of 248
    brucepbrucep Posts: 2,823member
    triple post
  • Reply 114 of 248
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,570member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Virgil-TB2 View Post


    This right here, puts you in the tiniest of minorities out of those that buy movies. Most people who buy movies buy them to own or collect the movies themselves.



    The vast majority of the movie buying public doesn't care at all about the supposed extras that they shovel onto the disc. The "extra content" thing was revealed to be mostly a scam years and years ago. Almost all you get is advertisements for other movies or promotions for the movie you have already bought. Not one movie company has ever used the full capabilities of the DVD medium for "extras" as they were originally envisioned when the format was designed.



    Most buyers, when asked in a survey, would rather have them taken off the disc given that they are mostly advertisements and that the viewer is "locked in" to viewing said advertisements when they don't even want to. I bought a disc just last week for $45 and I had to watch 15 minutes of advertisements before I was *allowed* to access the movie.



    While some of the better dics like criterion etc. have some valuable extras, the majority of movie extras are junk and most people would rather not have them at all.



    I've never heard of a survey where "most buyers" said that they would like the extras removed from the disk. Those extras are a big selling point. So are the special disk sets with games and an extra disk of interviews and such that won't fit onto the movie disk. Boxed editions at much higher prices with fold out pictures and other extras as well as various cuts are very popular, and very expensive, but sell well.



    I'd like to see some of those surveys. While I believe that many people don't look at some of the extra stuff. I've never read anywhere that most would rather not have it at all. Maybe a few people, thinking it would be cheaper.
  • Reply 115 of 248
    brucepbrucep Posts: 2,823member
    edits
  • Reply 116 of 248
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ArthurAscii View Post


    iTunes already has an extraordinary social capacity that is seriously underdeveloped, in the form of Library Sharing. The fact that Sharing does not does not already have basic social tools - you can't chat, comment, or even log what items in my Library people have been checking out (duh! )- is a stunning oversight that I hope will be soon addressed. All those iPod Touches and iPhones provide interesting possibilities for viral and site-specific ambient distribution, too.



    I agree with you.

    I feel like Apple really missed an opportunity to make iTunes more of an interactive experience with friends. Myspace's initial focus was all about the music. I'm no Myspace fan, but there is something to be learned from sites like Myspace, facebook, and twitter where people are spending more and more of their time.



    It should be an optional feature. I could care less about social networking, but for most people it's a big part of their online life.



    Why not allow users to develop profiles and recommend music? Why not allow anyone to view music videos for free? I think all of these things would only help sales.
  • Reply 117 of 248
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,570member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by brucep View Post


    Is HD dead then. Did someone win ?? I really thought blu ray lost . DID not apple

    I thought Blu Ray lost already and this was the dead cat bounce we're seeing .



    Will there be one standard ?? or three. or two . I hope HD wins out .OR are all 3 standards dead and digital the tidal wave on a calm sunny day that we have not seen yet. But SOON we will all be washed away with ??



    Bruce, you are really out of it. It was all over the news last year that HD-DVD died. And good riddance!
  • Reply 118 of 248
    antkm1antkm1 Posts: 1,441member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by brucep View Post


    I agree the last 3 itunes rentals I found on netflix same week . The DL thing is great for instant watchu\\ing at work.but from now on i iwll wait a few extras days for netflix.



    I will buy the LoTR next mega mega release extended . WAS THE WATCHMAN THAT GOOD ???

    Does on;y best buy have the bonus extra's ??



    OS



    The "bonus content" for the extended edition was kind of cool because it was like you were watching the feature with the director right there. he would pause the movie to talk about particular scenes, focus on areas you might miss. The bonus features on the added disc were just OK, i think the first one was the best, more about he history of the Graphic novel.



    The extended scenes are seamlessly integrated and if you read the graphic novel, you'll appreciate the added content. Much like LotR extended editions. Nothing compares to the quality of the bonus features on LotR. I've yet to find anything as comprehensive.
  • Reply 119 of 248
    brucepbrucep Posts: 2,823member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by antkm1 View Post


    I agree that BD is way too expensive. I'm not sure where you shop but i got my panasonic BD player for $299 at best buy, which is pretty average. Now i'm not saying that isn't a rip-off either, but that's what DVD players cost after being on the market for 2 years. And yes, BD movies are crazy expenisve. If they really want to compete with Digital and DVD sales, they need to make the movies close enough in price to make worth it.



    I, for one, only buy movies for the special features. If i like a movie enough, i will buy it, but really only for the special stuff. Like LOTR. now you can't get the 8+ hours of bonus content from those extended editions on iTunes can you? Thought so. Plus, Netflix is just such a better deal than iTunes movie rentals. I can watch as many DVD/BD movies as i like and instant download for $18 a month. I'd like to say that iTunes single use rentals are just as cheap but they are far off the mark.



    Now, look at what it costs to buy a HD movie on iTunes...$19.99. I just bought the Extended Edition of "Watchmen" with the digital copy and all bonus features for $19.99 at Best Buy. Prices are coming down and you get so much more with physical media still.



    I agree the last 3 itunes rentals I found on netflix same week . The DL thing is great for instant watchu\\ing at work.but from now on i iwll wait a few extras days for netflix.



    I will buy the LoTR next mega mega release extended comes out .



    WAS THE WATCHMAN THAT GOOD ???I will get it then .

    Does only best buy have the bonus extra's ??



    update B R WON THE WAR !!!!



    I only buy discs when its action block buster type . But DIGITAL and disc sounds great .

    Good will hunting or dinner with Andre is a joke on blu ray . Thats , my point about Bluray .



    RIGHT now i get movies from discs bought from stores

    bootlegs

    Itunes

    netflix

    roku

    reg dvr tv

    HULU

    and all the abc cbs type sites

    AND Amazon just sent me 50 Amazon dollars to spend in their movie dept. connected to roku or online



    I would love one stop shopping



    Thanks guys



    9
  • Reply 120 of 248
    Most people seem to be focusing on Blu-Ray for the video support, but I think a very important point for including Blu-Ray is the raw storage size.



    Apple was an early adopter of DVD players across the entire Mac line compared to PC makers, which meant Apple developers could very early switch to DVD exclusive distributions and not have to offer a second multiple CD version of everything. That reduces cost and complexity.



    We are now reaching the point were the storage space of DVDs for applications is at it's limit. Quite a few games, for example, are already needing 2 dual layer DVDs. Adobe Creative Suite and even Apple's Final Cut Studio and Logic Studio are also needing multiple discs. The Internet may be improving, but with all the talk of ISPs wanting throttling and bandwidth caps, having to download 20GB+ of data isn't going to be the most convenient. In Canada, for example, even a 60GB bandwidth cap is generous making downloading a Blu-Ray sized 50GB a virtual death sentence for the month, pardon the pun. John Carmack's RAGE has terabytes of raw textures that he's going to try to shrink to 2 DL DVDs for XBox 360 and PC/Mac, since it wouldn't be convenient to be swapping more. He's said he's open to making a better 50GB+ version for computer users if there was interest.



    The faster Apple adopts cross-board Blu-Ray drive support, the faster Mac developers can switch to Blu-Ray distribution instead of multiple DVD distribution. Digital downloads may be the future, but physical media still looks to be the mainstream for the next 5-10 years. And with price being the consumer/media focus these days, the addition of Blu-Ray drives will most likely be done without increase end-user model price with Apple absorbing the cost in their already large profit margin. It's hard to see the reason to complain about getting Blu-Ray support if you won't have to pay extra for it.
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