Apple to release Mac OS X Snow Leopard on August 28

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  • Reply 161 of 215






    I got Amazon.com Order Update on Snow Leopard!
  • Reply 162 of 215
    mactrippermactripper Posts: 1,328member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by webpoet73 View Post


    I have both a clone and use Time Machine... TM is good for incremental backups. I have recovered many files using TM that weren't on my clone since I only do a full clone about once a month... probably should do once a week, but right now, once a month.



    The only thing I don't do is take a clone off-site in case of disaster...





    I agree with you there, if I had a lot of files that changed daily or week to week even, I would use Time Capsule/Machine on top of cloning the whole drive like you do.



    Right now, burning a DVD for file backup is enough for my meager needs.



    I keep a copy of my iTunes folder on my iPod, as well as on several clones, including a couple in my safe deposit box that only have connected to Apple servers and nothing else.



    I got nothing super secret, it's just that I've spent a huge amount of time tweaking my large music library and I got burglarized and even flooded once, so now I make plenty of clones. It's only $80 for 500 GB drive and $40 for a enclosure.



    My time and money spent on my iTunes library is well into the tens of thousands of dollars.
  • Reply 163 of 215
    docno42docno42 Posts: 3,759member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by MacTripper View Post


    A cost savings suggestion: If your going to order online, go with MacMall or Otherworld Computing or another online retailer that DOESN'T have a physical presence in the State your living in or shipping the Mac too. This way you can avoid the state taxes, which for a computer is quite a bundle.



    Actually, every state has laws stating that you are responsible for paying use tax on any untaxed out of state purchases. Of course no one pays attention to them, but with state budgets tanking, what's to prevent states from upping enforcement?
  • Reply 164 of 215
    mactrippermactripper Posts: 1,328member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by DCJ001 View Post


    Replacing one's hard drive does not void one's MacBook warranty unless the one doing the replacing damages something in the process, at which point only the damage caused during the hard drive replacement is not covered.





    Is that right?



    Seems I've replaced my MPB hard drive myself (Apple reseller wanted to charge $600 for a $300 drive!), but didn't put certain screws back exactly the way they came from the factory and had to remove a certain tape, saying not to remove it to install the new hard drive.



    Tried to have Apple take a look for a Superdrive issue and nope, they said it was tampered with.



    Luckily the issue worked itself out in software and all is fine now.
  • Reply 165 of 215
    docno42docno42 Posts: 3,759member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by MacTripper View Post


    a Time Machine restore is harder and more time consuming, as one has to first install the OS, update it (with upgrade disks) and then restore from Time Machine and later find out not all things are copied/restored/working.



    Thats not true at all. You can restore from Time Machine during the OS install - I've done it on my G4 PowerBook as well as my MacBook Pro.



    If I had to pick between a clone and Time Machine, I'd pick Time Machine - Time Machine seamlessly gives me as many alternate versions of my most recently used files as I have disk space on my time machine volume. The bigger the time machine drive, the more versions of files I have. Cloning doesn't do that - it's just a single snapshot in time.



    Yeah, I can boot off a cloned disk... but rather then that I just have slim OSX install on my time machine volume - I can boot off that if I need to (I backup to Time Machine via a sparse bundle I created using the Time Tamer script from Drobo.com) And I can pull files from my Time Machine just as easily from a clone.



    Best yet - Time Machine is integrated into the OS and free.



    Cloning - I have to think about what I'm doing. It requires intervention. Time Machine - plug it in and forget it. I'm much more likely to do the latter then the former
  • Reply 166 of 215
    mactrippermactripper Posts: 1,328member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by DocNo42 View Post


    Actually, every state has laws stating that you are responsible for paying use tax on any untaxed out of state purchases. Of course no one pays attention to them, but with state budgets tanking, what's to prevent states from upping enforcement?



    Because if a state begins trying to enforce taxes on incoming products through the mails, the original point of origin state will want to tax the products leaving it's state to get that money first, resulting in double tax, which everybody looses.



    Also the originating state will need the cooperation of the receiving state for enforcement and collection as they don't have jurisdiction in the other state.. So the receiving state will need to be compensated for enforcement and collection, which the amounts are not enough to warrant the effort.



    Since the Federal mail system is used in shipping and to act as once voice in all this chaos, the US Government would have to get involved, further complicating matters and subject to political changes.



    So you got 52 states, districts, reservations etc, and the US Federal government all fighting to waste money to get a portion of that little $70 which during this deflation period, people are not buying so much so the sales everywhere have dropped considerably, making even less of a attractive means of tax generation.



    It's mutually assured economic destruction.



    The better option would to be to increase property taxes, as there is leverage if you don't pay it, they can take your house.
  • Reply 167 of 215
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by MacTripper View Post


    You can only restore FROM a Time Machine drive to another working boot drive. It requires a working DVD drive to reinstall the OS from the (hopefully pristine) install disks onto a working drive first before restoring from Time Machine drive.



    Yes, and?



    So you're assuming a bad hard drive AND a bad DVD drive AND a bad OSX DVD? Yikes. If all that happens to you at the same time, I'd avoid crossing the street. Seriously, I completely understand the value of being careful, but there's careful, and then there's paranoid.



    I think Time Machine is an excellent way of dealing any problem that a user is actually likely to have. I work with non-technical and novice Mac users a lot. I find if you give them solutions which are more complicated than they need to be, then they don't do them. And you want them to do them, or what's the point?



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by backtomac View Post


    While TM is nice, a clone is very useful and desirable in addition to TM, IMO.



    If your drive fails you can boot from the clone and continue using your machine until you can take your machine to Apple or replace the HDD yourself.



    I use SuperDuper and while it's not as easy to use as TM it isn't difficult to use. I wouldn't consider it much more 'geeky' than TM and certainly no more 'geeky' than off line backups.



    I've restored a new HDD from a clone and the process was easy and flawless. I would use it before I would do a full HDD restore form TM simply because I know it works well. I haven't tried that with TM.



    Turning the TIme Machine preferences to "on" is geeky? Look, if your hard drive fails what you are going to need is a complete, up-to-date backup. Time Machine does that and does it seamlessly, for multiple Macs, and with no user intervention required. I know some think the solution ought to be more complicated than that, but I'll be darned if I know why.



    Also, keep in mind, this discussion is being held in the context of the Snow Leopard update. I would never say that a user should not have a complete backup of their Mac before upgrading, because they ought to have that all the time, period. But making assumptions of multiple hardware failures at the point of upgrade is going overboard IMO, especially when we know that 99.9% of the time, simply clicking on "upgrade" works perfectly. At some point we're suggesting killing gnats with artillery.
  • Reply 169 of 215
    dcj001dcj001 Posts: 301member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by MacTripper View Post


    Is that right?



    Seems I've replaced my MPB hard drive myself (Apple reseller wanted to charge $600 for a $300 drive!), but didn't put certain screws back exactly the way they came from the factory and had to remove a certain tape, saying not to remove it to install the new hard drive.



    Tried to have Apple take a look for a Superdrive issue and nope, they said it was tampered with.



    Luckily the issue worked itself out in software and all is fine now.



    Apple gives instructions on replacing hard drives and memory. For example, instructions for replacing a MacBook Pro's hard drive is online here:



    http://support.apple.com/kb/HT3419



    and in the user manual that comes with it. That "non-user serviceable" back of the MacBook is held on with ten screws. If you've got your "Screwdriver Authorization" certificate (kidding) you're authorized to open it up.



    Wouldn't Apple have a liability to say, "Opening the back of your MacBook Pro voids any and all warranty" if this statement were true? Of course, judgments made by service personnel like Apple Geniuses may vary and, if you are ever told anything that doesn't make sense, ask for their manager, or that person's manager, etc. until you get a logical answer.
  • Reply 170 of 215
    nvidia2008nvidia2008 Posts: 9,262member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Lorre View Post


    Great news! Now I only hope this will install to a blank hard drive. I'm treating my MacBook on a bigger harddrive to accompany the Snow Leopard update... Having to Install Leopard just to be able to install SL would be quite cumbersome.



    Now for the great dillemma... 320GB 7200RPM vs 500GB 5400RPM...



    7200rpm. You won't regret the speed boost. There's always external storage. I can't imagine you need 500GB on hand all the time. But the speed boost - it's always there every time you use the computer. I will never go back to 5400rpm drives. Next stop, SSD, but for now, my 7200rpm is sweet. Particularly with Snow Leopard, you'll get some nice real smooth performance, don't let the hard disk hold you back.
  • Reply 171 of 215
    thepixeldocthepixeldoc Posts: 2,257member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ncee View Post


    Hi folks Is anyone here been testing SL, and if so, do you use Freehand, and if so, does it still work?



    We use Freehand here - like most people breath ? so we'd really like to keep using it, if it works. If not

    I guess we MAY have to switch to Illustrator, or keep a few computers here, with and older OS.



    Skip



    I as well as a number of clients are in the same boat (with FreeHand). I'll be testing as soon as the disks arive (Friday?-Saturday?). I would think it should work as it does now using Rosetta. If not, we'll be making the full switch to Illustrator. However, I must say they are still a lot of things that we can do faster and more efficiently with FH than Illu., so it will definately be a bummer if it fails to work.



    I myself am hoping for better performance from the whole CS4 Suite, but also looking forward to CS5 for the perfect "marriage".
  • Reply 172 of 215
    pbpb Posts: 4,255member
    Not a word about Rosetta... Is it gone in SL?
  • Reply 173 of 215
    m01etym01ety Posts: 278member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by PB View Post


    Not a word about Rosetta... Is it gone in SL?



    It's not gone, and this has been answered several times already.
  • Reply 174 of 215
    imatimat Posts: 213member
    Now let's just hope the new Aperture won't take long to release....
  • Reply 175 of 215
    imatimat Posts: 213member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by m01ety View Post


    It's not gone, and this has been answered several times already.



    Rosetta will not be installed by default on Snow Leopard. You will have to manually select the installation. Although I am not sure if it installs Rosetta when you upgrade from Leopard if there is software known to need it (for instance if you have the old version of Office installed then maybe Snow Leopard will install Rosetta)
  • Reply 176 of 215
    imatimat Posts: 213member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by nvidia2008 View Post


    7200rpm. You won't regret the speed boost. There's always external storage. I can't imagine you need 500GB on hand all the time. But the speed boost - it's always there every time you use the computer. I will never go back to 5400rpm drives. Next stop, SSD, but for now, my 7200rpm is sweet. Particularly with Snow Leopard, you'll get some nice real smooth performance, don't let the hard disk hold you back.



    Or.. Just take the plunge while you are at it.

    I installed a Seagate 500GB 7200 rpm HDD on my MBP 4,1 (pre-unibody) and am very happy with it. I suggest you do the same so you'll not have to compromise on anything...
  • Reply 177 of 215
    mactrippermactripper Posts: 1,328member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss View Post


    Yes, and?



    So you're assuming a bad hard drive AND a bad DVD drive AND a bad OSX DVD? Yikes. If all that happens to you at the same time, I'd avoid crossing the street. Seriously, I completely understand the value of being careful, but there's careful, and then there's paranoid.



    Not paranoia, it's experience.



    I've had Mac's not boot from the hard drive and the OS X install disk (either from a damaged disk or a drive software/hardware failure), but would boot from a clone just fine. Saved a expensive trip to a Apple Store, which the closest one is several hundred miles away.



    With a Superdrive and a OS X install disk, that's two failure potentials in one boot method, either or can fail resulting in not being able to use the secondary boot method. A clone gives a third option, and makes it a hell of a lot easier to restore from than waiting around while the OS X install disk waits for your input.



    Reverse cloning is a breeze, start it and come back in a hour or so. Your drive is exactly the same way it was when you cloned.



    If your not a novice and only got money for one external hard drive, I would make it a clone instead of a Time Machine drive, as a Time Machine drive is not bootable.







    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss View Post


    I think Time Machine is an excellent way of dealing any problem that a user is actually likely to have. I work with non-technical and novice Mac users a lot. I find if you give them solutions which are more complicated than they need to be, then they don't do them. And you want them to do them, or what's the point?





    I work with a lot of computer novices myself and I maintain a clone of each of their boot drives, in most cases I can get them back to nearly exactly to their happy state of computer bliss in the time it takes to boot from the clone, which is under a minute and can be done over the phone. Time Machine can't do that, no fricking way, not yet anyway.





    Time Machine is a good backup solution, but it's not a good alternate boot solution.



    Cloning and Time Machine are two different concepts, each has their strengths and weaknesses.





    If Time Machine adopted the cloning concept and allowed it to be booted from, it would be my backup solution of choice. But that's not going to happen because Apple won't copy the whole drive due to complaints from third party software developers who place hidden files on drives to prevent piracy.



    If third party software developers take the computers id and or MAC address into their protection schemes, then it wouldn't matter which hard drive was used to boot from.







    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss View Post


    Turning the TIme Machine preferences to "on" is geeky? Look, if your hard drive fails what you are going to need is a complete, up-to-date backup. Time Machine does that and does it seamlessly, for multiple Macs, and with no user intervention required. I know some think the solution ought to be more complicated than that, but I'll be darned if I know why.



    I never said "Turning the TIme Machine preferences to "on" is geeky?". In fact OS X annoys the hell out of one every time they hook up a external drive. Good thing there is is Tinkertool, which allows one to turn off that annoyance.





    Time Machine backups are not bootable, which has a lot of drawbacks, getting online, seeking help etc. It forces the novice into taking their only machine (and their private files) in for service.



    If they had a clone, they could boot from that to determine if it's a software or hardware problem with the drive, and recover and repair themselves. Without the several hundred mile trip to spread out Apple stores, or hunting down the rare and usually expensive local Mac tech.



    Cloning one's boot drive is the novices next step in their learning curve of computer backup solutions. It's not for the very new user who needs a lot of hand held assistance, which Time Machine is certainly more tailored for.





    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss View Post


    Also, keep in mind, this discussion is being held in the context of the Snow Leopard update. I would never say that a user should not have a complete backup of their Mac before upgrading, because they ought to have that all the time, period. But making assumptions of multiple hardware failures at the point of upgrade is going overboard IMO, especially when we know that 99.9% of the time, simply clicking on "upgrade" works perfectly. At some point we're suggesting killing gnats with artillery.





    A clone allows one to go back to Leopard, which all the printer drivers, video drivers, third party software works perfectly. Snow Leopard is a unknown and novices upgrading without first checking with early adopters (who do clone) first are just asking for a possible expensive service call/Apple Store trip.



    Apple isn't perfect, they have rushed out OS upgrades before, in fact Leopard was a real problem when it first came out, until several updates later.



    Many times third party developers will use a OS X upgrade as a excuse to force a paid upgrade of their software and may even not release a update for quite some time.



    I don't upgrade my users with a recently issued OS upgrade, it's just not worth the unnecessary headaches and complaints until I know I can do it without any problems.
  • Reply 178 of 215
    mactrippermactripper Posts: 1,328member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by DCJ001 View Post


    Apple gives instructions on replacing hard drives and memory. For example, instructions for replacing a MacBook Pro's hard drive is online here:



    http://support.apple.com/kb/HT3419



    and in the user manual that comes with it. That "non-user serviceable" back of the MacBook is held on with ten screws. If you've got your "Screwdriver Authorization" certificate (kidding) you're authorized to open it up.



    Wouldn't Apple have a liability to say, "Opening the back of your MacBook Pro voids any and all warranty" if this statement were true? Of course, judgments made by service personnel like Apple Geniuses may vary and, if you are ever told anything that doesn't make sense, ask for their manager, or that person's manager, etc. until you get a logical answer.







    "If you've got your "Screwdriver Authorization" certificate (kidding) you're authorized to open it up."





    Yes, you really need one depending upon the Mac your working on:



    1: A green or dark cloth to see the tiny screws and a method to catch dropped screws while working on a Mac, like a large flat tub.



    2: A container with numerical labeled sub compartments (inside the tub with the Mac) to hold one screw which a list is maintained which screw goes exactly back where on the operated Mac as they look the same, but can vary on length, type and size and thread type. No extra screws available either.



    3: A written list of how to disassemble and reassemble, because you certainly can't boot from the Mac and watch the video.



    4: I think it's a #10 torx micro driver too, to really get into the guts of the machine. Which certainly would void your warranty/Apple Care. Not needed for the recent MacBooks of course, which the drive is accessible through the battery/RAM bay and a few screws, so it's a user serviceable part.



    5: The correct size Phillips head micro screw driver needed, not forcing a blade of a knife or a wrong size screwdriver into those finely machines screws, stripping their heads.



    6: Assorted magnifying glasses and magnetic pickup tools, tweezers and such for micro work.





    Apple should make all their laptop drives user accessible. A little screwed on door and pull out the device, slide in a new one (or the old one, hehehe)
  • Reply 179 of 215
    codymrcodymr Posts: 28member
    The only apps I am concerned about is Final Cut Pro 5.1.4 and Motion 2.1.2. Does anyone out there know if they are compatible with 10.6?
  • Reply 180 of 215
    abster2coreabster2core Posts: 2,501member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by MacTripper View Post


    "If you've got your "Screwdriver Authorization" certificate (kidding) you're authorized to open it up."





    Yes, you really need one depending upon the Mac your working on:



    1: A green or dark cloth to see the tiny screws and a method to catch dropped screws while working on a Mac, like a large flat tub.



    2: A container with numerical labeled sub compartments (inside the tub with the Mac) to hold one screw which a list is maintained which screw goes exactly back where on the operated Mac as they look the same, but can vary on length, type and size and thread type. No extra screws available either.



    3: A written list of how to disassemble and reassemble, because you certainly can't boot from the Mac and watch the video.



    4: I think it's a #10 torx micro driver too, to really get into the guts of the machine. Which certainly would void your warranty/Apple Care. Not needed for the recent MacBooks of course, which the drive is accessible through the battery/RAM bay and a few screws, so it's a user serviceable part.



    5: The correct size Phillips head micro screw driver needed, not forcing a blade of a knife or a wrong size screwdriver into those finely machines screws, stripping their heads.



    6: Assorted magnifying glasses and magnetic pickup tools, tweezers and such for micro work.





    Apple should make all their laptop drives user accessible. A little screwed on door and pull out the device, slide in a new one (or the old one, hehehe)



    And it doesn't hurt if you use your iPhone, particular the 3GS, to take pictures/videos of each phase as you go.



    I ported the instructional video to my iPhone, printed out the directions from Fixit and used them as a guide. However, taking my own pics along the way ensured that I was replacing everything in the right place and in the right order.



    Most important, taking before photos will help you get everything looking in the exact place when you are done. That may be important later on.
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