Most people say they do, but I think it has more to do w/ weight& gearing.
Im doing a tranny swap on my 98 M3 to a euro 6-spd. Ill be moving the diff from 3.25 to 3.64or3.73 when I do. This should take care of any 'over wheeling' that might occur from 19s. While Im at it, Im going to install a Rouge flywheel & Sachs comp clutch.
Good choice on the BBS. Im looking at CHs or LMs.
Im in DC too. Do you go to DTMpower.net. There are alot of Bimmer meets-probably not many until spring tho. You should come.
I'm looking at new cars already. I test drove an Audi A4 1.8 T today. Holy cow, that 4 cylinder gots some power to it. I floored it on I-64 and 100 before I knew it. I am going to test drive the A4 3.0 quattro soon and see how that compares. I am also looking at a BMW 325i.
<strong>I'm looking at new cars already. I test drove an Audi A4 1.8 T today. Holy cow, that 4 cylinder gots some power to it. I floored it on I-64 and 100 before I knew it. I am going to test drive the A4 3.0 quattro soon and see how that compares. I am also looking at a BMW 325i.
Can someone give some advice and their opinions?</strong><hr></blockquote>
well are u limiting yerself to european? and whats the price range that yer workin w/?
<strong>I'm looking at new cars already. I test drove an Audi A4 1.8 T today. Holy cow, that 4 cylinder gots some power to it. I floored it on I-64 and 100 before I knew it. I am going to test drive the A4 3.0 quattro soon and see how that compares. I am also looking at a BMW 325i.
Can someone give some advice and their opinions?</strong><hr></blockquote>
I feel that Audi kicks ass all over BMW. I also think you already drove the best one, unless you have eighty grand to spend. Actually the S4 is pretty sporty if you can spend a little more than the A4.
Most people say they do, but I think it has more to do w/ weight& gearing.
Im doing a tranny swap on my 98 M3 to a euro 6-spd. Ill be moving the diff from 3.25 to 3.64or3.73 when I do. This should take care of any 'over wheeling' that might occur from 19s. While Im at it, Im going to install a Rouge flywheel & Sachs comp clutch.
Good choice on the BBS. Im looking at CHs or LMs.
Im in DC too. Do you go to DTMpower.net. There are alot of Bimmer meets-probably not many until spring tho. You should come.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I've never felt that the 19s slowed me down. I've got the CHs and they are so freggin light... I think it's more a question of having a car that's made to handle it... 19s may slow morons in civics down, but on an m3.. no troubles....
Anyway... I've never been to DTMpower, but I'll check it out.
I may just be driving a plain-jane 330ci by then though.. blasted insurance.
Oh, and whoever said that Audi is the Apple of car world, you're wrong. Audis are just tarted up VW's. BMW is about the last family-owned major car company in the world. They are the smallest of the major German marques. Their attention to detail is unparalleled, and the cars have a soul, unlike Audis, which, while being great cars, don't have the same... bmw-ness to them.
There is a soul and a connection with the road in a BMW that is unmatched in any car, shy of a +100,000 dollar one. Note the Car and Driver 2002 Ten Best: the 3-series is on for the 11th straight year. The 5 is on for the 7th. These are the 2 lowest priced BMW lines, yet they rank among the best-recieved cars in the history of the automotive press.
Audis are just wanna-be BMW's. Quattro is the only thing they've got going for them. There's nothing more satisfying than the whirring and the velvety smooth power delivery of a BMW straight six... it's something that has been refined for decades. They're really more flexible, usable powerhouses, and they do it with unparalleled smoothness.
how did i know that the previous post would spawn a reply by jonathon?
btw, im really not all the impressed by the 3 series or the 5 series--the only BMWs i enjoy over other cars are the Ms.
the car and driver top 10 thing dont mean much...the civic and accord are regularly on that and they arent exactly performance vehicles--just well made.
the m3 is probably one of the best vehicles u can buy (the newest generation anyway). unfortunately, its a lil pricey now--just get a honda S2000 and throw a supercharger in it, and uv caught up to and surpassed the m3 fer 2/3rds the price. of course, hondas basically giving away the S2k...32k is so incredibly low for that car its amazing. and most people dont know anything about em...
well are u limiting yerself to european? and whats the price range that yer workin w/?</strong><hr></blockquote>
I am looking primarily at German autos for now. I am looking at the Chrysler 300m, which is a great car for the money, but I haven't test driven it yet.
And I am trying to keep it around 30k; that's about the limit of my money. I wish I could afford the 50k range, then I would either be in a 540i or A6 4.3 quattro. But alas, the Navy don't pay well...
I feel that Audi kicks ass all over BMW. I also think you already drove the best one, unless you have eighty grand to spend. Actually the S4 is pretty sporty if you can spend a little more than the A4.
Audi is to BMW as Apple is to IBM!</strong><hr></blockquote>
Well, I feel you can't go wrong with either. German auto is the way to go. I am not looking at Japan at all. The 300m is the only American car I am looking at. Maybe a Volvo S70, who knows. But primarily German cars are the best. I couldn't believe the quality of the A4 I drove. And I couldn't believe that I hit 100 mph on an acceleration lane on I-64 here! And on a 4 cylinder, too! And that Tiptronic tranny is sweet. I think BMW offers that, too.
Ive driven many cars, but my M3 is in a class by itself. True, the US got screwed on the 240 HP E36 M3 while the europeans have a 320 HP version. But even the US moto can pass 260 rwHP w/less than 5k of NA mods.
Im working on a euro motor swap. I had bought an engine in Oct, but got screwed over by a POS named Bill Regas (aka Ceno Illusions). Now Im looking for another one. When Im done, I will have about 365 bHP without any forced induction.
I blasted by an M3 this morning in my 2000 dodge caravan,(4 cyl, 3 spd auto (yes THREE)) while listening to the Christmas station on the radio.
At least I've got two valentine ones!
I'm going to swap out my rear windows wiper to a lighter one next week. I might even top off the tires to their recommended pressure. And this 88 cent gas is great!
Soon after I got my ///M, I learned to stay away from minivans. Even I know my limits.
Actually, between minivans and SUVs, Im ready to give up driving. I cant stand them. In DC it seems like every prick that couldn't drive a 2000lb car has run out and bought a 4000lb off-road vehicle...and a cell phone.
I dont drive my BMW to work, because Im scared of the other drivers. Atleast once a week, one of tese monstrosities nearly hits me. Thats why my daily driver is a 89 Honda Accord w/300,000 miles (makes me appreciate the ///M more too)
Ive driven many cars, but my M3 is in a class by itself. True, the US got screwed on the 240 HP E36 M3 while the europeans have a 320 HP version. But even the US moto can pass 260 rwHP w/less than 5k of NA mods.</strong><hr></blockquote>
All right, all right, the M3 is an exception. Can't a guy make a sweeping generalization any more? I've been hating on BMWs for so long that now that they finally make ONE car that basically beats all the German competition in its class, I can't see saying "BMWs suck.... except the M3." It's easier just to keep it simple!
Jonathan, even if Quattro WERE all that Audi had going for it, that's pretty big, unless you're always going to be driving in a straight line on dry pavement.
And if you think Audis are just "tarted up" VWs, then you haven't been inside an Audi since the 5000 or so, I guess.
The 300m is the only American car I am looking at. </strong><hr></blockquote>
My dad owns a 300M and before I got my own car I drove it a lot. It is a wonderful car, especially for an American car. The engine is really powerful and the dual exhaust is really nice. 253 horses is plenty powerful for a midsize sedan. I also like the analog clock, very nice touch. The manual shift mode is a nice touch too. I would strongly reccomend seriously considering it. But on the other hand , people seem to go crazy for BMWs so.... just my $.02
G4dude, the 300m is definitely a fine car, but I have noticed that a new one is almost 4 grand more than that Audi A4 1.8T that I test drove the other day. And Audi has 4 year 50K mile maintenance plan that inlcudes everything but the tires and windshields. That's a hard deal to pass up.
I am on my way to Casey BMW... 330i looks nice, but at 35k, that's almost out of my budget. The 325i is what I am probably going to look at.
Next week or so Pomoco Chrysler is where I'll end up. Thank God there ain't no Ferrari dealer around here...
All right, all right, the M3 is an exception. Can't a guy make a sweeping generalization any more? I've been hating on BMWs for so long that now that they finally make ONE car that basically beats all the German competition in its class, I can't see saying "BMWs suck.... except the M3." It's easier just to keep it simple!
Jonathan, even if Quattro WERE all that Audi had going for it, that's pretty big, unless you're always going to be driving in a straight line on dry pavement.
And if you think Audis are just "tarted up" VWs, then you haven't been inside an Audi since the 5000 or so, I guess.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Hmmm... let's see. My god, the amount of sheer idiocy represented in this post is beyond my comprehension.
Let's dissect, shall we?
You say "finally BMW makes a car that beats all German competition in it's class"
Hmm, looks to me like just about every BMW model for the past, oh, 5 or 6 years has soundly beaten its competitors, German, American, or Japanese, in most comparison tests in car magazines.
Re: Quattro. Yes, it's a good thing for when you're going off-roading in your $40,000 dollar sport sedan As for wet/snow performance, I would venture that the skid protection fitted to all BMW's and Mercedeses is perfectly sufficient for most wet conditions. Sure, it's not going to blast through a snowbank, but, then again, neither will an Audi... And if you really want AWD, you can get it on some BMW's and Mercedeses.
And yes, I have been inside an Audi this side of the 5000... I drove an A4 1.8T just the other day, actually, mr. sizzle chest, and I was immediately struck by how similar to the interior of a modern Jetta/Passat it was. Granted, the TT has a very, er, unique (read, cheap looking) interior to it, but the fundamental design ethos behind the interiors are very similar.
In addition, Audi seats SUCK. Even the sportiest ones that I could find in the dealership, being in the S4, seemed like flat benches with very little lateral support.
I do like the diversity in interior finishes that Audi offers. It's nice to be able to, with little difficulty, order a non-standard color of leather or Alcantara, with a wierd wood or something.
Fact is, I just can't stand cars that require forced induction (turbocharger) to make power. It seems that it's cheating: It's clear that Audi can't seem to make a normally aspirated engine that is anywhere near as brawny or usable as a normally aspirated BMW engine.
If I had to buy an Audi, it'd be an RS4 or an S8 cars that have no competitors from BMW. In every other category, though, I think that the Audi offering gets stomped all over by their BMW counterparts.
Hmmm... let's see. My god, the amount of sheer idiocy represented in this post is beyond my comprehension.
Let's dissect, shall we?
You say "finally BMW makes a car that beats all German competition in it's class"
Hmm, looks to me like just about every BMW model for the past, oh, 5 or 6 years has soundly beaten its competitors, German, American, or Japanese, in most comparison tests in car magazines.
Re: Quattro. Yes, it's a good thing for when you're going off-roading in your $40,000 dollar sport sedan As for wet/snow performance, I would venture that the skid protection fitted to all BMW's and Mercedeses is perfectly sufficient for most wet conditions. Sure, it's not going to blast through a snowbank, but, then again, neither will an Audi... And if you really want AWD, you can get it on some BMW's and Mercedeses.
And yes, I have been inside an Audi this side of the 5000... I drove an A4 1.8T just the other day, actually, mr. sizzle chest, and I was immediately struck by how similar to the interior of a modern Jetta/Passat it was. Granted, the TT has a very, er, unique (read, cheap looking) interior to it, but the fundamental design ethos behind the interiors are very similar.
In addition, Audi seats SUCK. Even the sportiest ones that I could find in the dealership, being in the S4, seemed like flat benches with very little lateral support.
I do like the diversity in interior finishes that Audi offers. It's nice to be able to, with little difficulty, order a non-standard color of leather or Alcantara, with a wierd wood or something.
Fact is, I just can't stand cars that require forced induction (turbocharger) to make power. It seems that it's cheating: It's clear that Audi can't seem to make a normally aspirated engine that is anywhere near as brawny or usable as a normally aspirated BMW engine.
If I had to buy an Audi, it'd be an RS4 or an S8 cars that have no competitors from BMW. In every other category, though, I think that the Audi offering gets stomped all over by their BMW counterparts.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I see that you failed to counter my Dodge Caravan 2.4 Cyl, SEVEN passenger lux-tour-de-force! Oh yeah, can't take the heat!
Price? $14,200 after 'greeen slip' and applicable rebates. 24 MPG, too!
My mistake. I failed to recognize that it's unreasonable to good-naturedly question something like brand preference. Apparently I alone among all human beings on earth have failed to recognize that BMW is and has always been by far the greatest car manufacturer ever. Thanks for setting me straight.
Comments
Left:
Jeep Grand Cherokee <img src="graemlins/smokin.gif" border="0" alt="[Chilling]" />
4.7-liter SOHC 16-valve V-8 with 265 hp 325 lb-ft torque,
4WD,
4-speed automatic transmission.
Right:
BMW X5 SAV :cool:
4.4-litler DOHC 4-cam 32-valve V-8 with 290 hp 324 lb-ft torque,
Full-time all-wheel drive with All Season Traction,
5-speed with Adaptive Transmission Control and STEPTRONIC automatic/clutchless manual.
Kenneth
Do your 19s slow you down?
Most people say they do, but I think it has more to do w/ weight& gearing.
Im doing a tranny swap on my 98 M3 to a euro 6-spd. Ill be moving the diff from 3.25 to 3.64or3.73 when I do. This should take care of any 'over wheeling' that might occur from 19s. While Im at it, Im going to install a Rouge flywheel & Sachs comp clutch.
Good choice on the BBS. Im looking at CHs or LMs.
Im in DC too. Do you go to DTMpower.net. There are alot of Bimmer meets-probably not many until spring tho. You should come.
Can someone give some advice and their opinions?
<strong>I'm looking at new cars already. I test drove an Audi A4 1.8 T today. Holy cow, that 4 cylinder gots some power to it. I floored it on I-64 and 100 before I knew it. I am going to test drive the A4 3.0 quattro soon and see how that compares. I am also looking at a BMW 325i.
Can someone give some advice and their opinions?</strong><hr></blockquote>
well are u limiting yerself to european? and whats the price range that yer workin w/?
<strong>I'm looking at new cars already. I test drove an Audi A4 1.8 T today. Holy cow, that 4 cylinder gots some power to it. I floored it on I-64 and 100 before I knew it. I am going to test drive the A4 3.0 quattro soon and see how that compares. I am also looking at a BMW 325i.
Can someone give some advice and their opinions?</strong><hr></blockquote>
I feel that Audi kicks ass all over BMW. I also think you already drove the best one, unless you have eighty grand to spend. Actually the S4 is pretty sporty if you can spend a little more than the A4.
Audi is to BMW as Apple is to IBM!
<strong>Jonathan-
Do your 19s slow you down?
Most people say they do, but I think it has more to do w/ weight& gearing.
Im doing a tranny swap on my 98 M3 to a euro 6-spd. Ill be moving the diff from 3.25 to 3.64or3.73 when I do. This should take care of any 'over wheeling' that might occur from 19s. While Im at it, Im going to install a Rouge flywheel & Sachs comp clutch.
Good choice on the BBS. Im looking at CHs or LMs.
Im in DC too. Do you go to DTMpower.net. There are alot of Bimmer meets-probably not many until spring tho. You should come.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I've never felt that the 19s slowed me down. I've got the CHs and they are so freggin light... I think it's more a question of having a car that's made to handle it... 19s may slow morons in civics down, but on an m3.. no troubles....
Anyway... I've never been to DTMpower, but I'll check it out.
I may just be driving a plain-jane 330ci by then though.. blasted insurance.
Oh, and whoever said that Audi is the Apple of car world, you're wrong. Audis are just tarted up VW's. BMW is about the last family-owned major car company in the world. They are the smallest of the major German marques. Their attention to detail is unparalleled, and the cars have a soul, unlike Audis, which, while being great cars, don't have the same... bmw-ness to them.
There is a soul and a connection with the road in a BMW that is unmatched in any car, shy of a +100,000 dollar one. Note the Car and Driver 2002 Ten Best: the 3-series is on for the 11th straight year. The 5 is on for the 7th. These are the 2 lowest priced BMW lines, yet they rank among the best-recieved cars in the history of the automotive press.
Audis are just wanna-be BMW's. Quattro is the only thing they've got going for them. There's nothing more satisfying than the whirring and the velvety smooth power delivery of a BMW straight six... it's something that has been refined for decades. They're really more flexible, usable powerhouses, and they do it with unparalleled smoothness.
btw, im really not all the impressed by the 3 series or the 5 series--the only BMWs i enjoy over other cars are the Ms.
the car and driver top 10 thing dont mean much...the civic and accord are regularly on that and they arent exactly performance vehicles--just well made.
the m3 is probably one of the best vehicles u can buy (the newest generation anyway). unfortunately, its a lil pricey now--just get a honda S2000 and throw a supercharger in it, and uv caught up to and surpassed the m3 fer 2/3rds the price. of course, hondas basically giving away the S2k...32k is so incredibly low for that car its amazing. and most people dont know anything about em...
til they lose a race to one, that is.
<img src="graemlins/smokin.gif" border="0" alt="[Chilling]" />
<strong>
well are u limiting yerself to european? and whats the price range that yer workin w/?</strong><hr></blockquote>
I am looking primarily at German autos for now. I am looking at the Chrysler 300m, which is a great car for the money, but I haven't test driven it yet.
And I am trying to keep it around 30k; that's about the limit of my money. I wish I could afford the 50k range, then I would either be in a 540i or A6 4.3 quattro. But alas, the Navy don't pay well...
<strong>
I feel that Audi kicks ass all over BMW. I also think you already drove the best one, unless you have eighty grand to spend. Actually the S4 is pretty sporty if you can spend a little more than the A4.
Audi is to BMW as Apple is to IBM!</strong><hr></blockquote>
Well, I feel you can't go wrong with either. German auto is the way to go. I am not looking at Japan at all. The 300m is the only American car I am looking at. Maybe a Volvo S70, who knows. But primarily German cars are the best. I couldn't believe the quality of the A4 I drove. And I couldn't believe that I hit 100 mph on an acceleration lane on I-64 here! And on a 4 cylinder, too! And that Tiptronic tranny is sweet. I think BMW offers that, too.
Ive driven many cars, but my M3 is in a class by itself. True, the US got screwed on the 240 HP E36 M3 while the europeans have a 320 HP version. But even the US moto can pass 260 rwHP w/less than 5k of NA mods.
Im working on a euro motor swap. I had bought an engine in Oct, but got screwed over by a POS named Bill Regas (aka Ceno Illusions). Now Im looking for another one. When Im done, I will have about 365 bHP without any forced induction.
Yeah Bimmers suck.
At least I've got two valentine ones!
I'm going to swap out my rear windows wiper to a lighter one next week. I might even top off the tires to their recommended pressure. And this 88 cent gas is great!
I might get a carbon fiber rear bench seat, too.
I know .... I'm just dreaming.
JRC
Actually, between minivans and SUVs, Im ready to give up driving. I cant stand them. In DC it seems like every prick that couldn't drive a 2000lb car has run out and bought a 4000lb off-road vehicle...and a cell phone.
I dont drive my BMW to work, because Im scared of the other drivers. Atleast once a week, one of tese monstrosities nearly hits me. Thats why my daily driver is a 89 Honda Accord w/300,000 miles (makes me appreciate the ///M more too)
Hoofhearted, nice mini! Sweet. Kate has something like that I think.
[ 12-19-2001: Message edited by: breakskull ]</p>
<strong>BMW=IBM WTF!!
Ive driven many cars, but my M3 is in a class by itself. True, the US got screwed on the 240 HP E36 M3 while the europeans have a 320 HP version. But even the US moto can pass 260 rwHP w/less than 5k of NA mods.</strong><hr></blockquote>
All right, all right, the M3 is an exception. Can't a guy make a sweeping generalization any more? I've been hating on BMWs for so long that now that they finally make ONE car that basically beats all the German competition in its class, I can't see saying "BMWs suck.... except the M3." It's easier just to keep it simple!
Jonathan, even if Quattro WERE all that Audi had going for it, that's pretty big, unless you're always going to be driving in a straight line on dry pavement.
And if you think Audis are just "tarted up" VWs, then you haven't been inside an Audi since the 5000 or so, I guess.
<strong>
The 300m is the only American car I am looking at. </strong><hr></blockquote>
My dad owns a 300M and before I got my own car I drove it a lot. It is a wonderful car, especially for an American car. The engine is really powerful and the dual exhaust is really nice. 253 horses is plenty powerful for a midsize sedan. I also like the analog clock, very nice touch. The manual shift mode is a nice touch too. I would strongly reccomend seriously considering it. But on the other hand , people seem to go crazy for BMWs so.... just my $.02
I am on my way to Casey BMW... 330i looks nice, but at 35k, that's almost out of my budget. The 325i is what I am probably going to look at.
Next week or so Pomoco Chrysler is where I'll end up. Thank God there ain't no Ferrari dealer around here...
<strong>
All right, all right, the M3 is an exception. Can't a guy make a sweeping generalization any more? I've been hating on BMWs for so long that now that they finally make ONE car that basically beats all the German competition in its class, I can't see saying "BMWs suck.... except the M3." It's easier just to keep it simple!
Jonathan, even if Quattro WERE all that Audi had going for it, that's pretty big, unless you're always going to be driving in a straight line on dry pavement.
And if you think Audis are just "tarted up" VWs, then you haven't been inside an Audi since the 5000 or so, I guess.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Hmmm... let's see. My god, the amount of sheer idiocy represented in this post is beyond my comprehension.
Let's dissect, shall we?
You say "finally BMW makes a car that beats all German competition in it's class"
Hmm, looks to me like just about every BMW model for the past, oh, 5 or 6 years has soundly beaten its competitors, German, American, or Japanese, in most comparison tests in car magazines.
Re: Quattro. Yes, it's a good thing for when you're going off-roading in your $40,000 dollar sport sedan
And yes, I have been inside an Audi this side of the 5000... I drove an A4 1.8T just the other day, actually, mr. sizzle chest, and I was immediately struck by how similar to the interior of a modern Jetta/Passat it was. Granted, the TT has a very, er, unique (read, cheap looking) interior to it, but the fundamental design ethos behind the interiors are very similar.
In addition, Audi seats SUCK. Even the sportiest ones that I could find in the dealership, being in the S4, seemed like flat benches with very little lateral support.
I do like the diversity in interior finishes that Audi offers. It's nice to be able to, with little difficulty, order a non-standard color of leather or Alcantara, with a wierd wood or something.
Fact is, I just can't stand cars that require forced induction (turbocharger) to make power. It seems that it's cheating: It's clear that Audi can't seem to make a normally aspirated engine that is anywhere near as brawny or usable as a normally aspirated BMW engine.
If I had to buy an Audi, it'd be an RS4 or an S8 cars that have no competitors from BMW. In every other category, though, I think that the Audi offering gets stomped all over by their BMW counterparts.
<strong>
Hmmm... let's see. My god, the amount of sheer idiocy represented in this post is beyond my comprehension.
Let's dissect, shall we?
You say "finally BMW makes a car that beats all German competition in it's class"
Hmm, looks to me like just about every BMW model for the past, oh, 5 or 6 years has soundly beaten its competitors, German, American, or Japanese, in most comparison tests in car magazines.
Re: Quattro. Yes, it's a good thing for when you're going off-roading in your $40,000 dollar sport sedan
And yes, I have been inside an Audi this side of the 5000... I drove an A4 1.8T just the other day, actually, mr. sizzle chest, and I was immediately struck by how similar to the interior of a modern Jetta/Passat it was. Granted, the TT has a very, er, unique (read, cheap looking) interior to it, but the fundamental design ethos behind the interiors are very similar.
In addition, Audi seats SUCK. Even the sportiest ones that I could find in the dealership, being in the S4, seemed like flat benches with very little lateral support.
I do like the diversity in interior finishes that Audi offers. It's nice to be able to, with little difficulty, order a non-standard color of leather or Alcantara, with a wierd wood or something.
Fact is, I just can't stand cars that require forced induction (turbocharger) to make power. It seems that it's cheating: It's clear that Audi can't seem to make a normally aspirated engine that is anywhere near as brawny or usable as a normally aspirated BMW engine.
If I had to buy an Audi, it'd be an RS4 or an S8 cars that have no competitors from BMW. In every other category, though, I think that the Audi offering gets stomped all over by their BMW counterparts.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I see that you failed to counter my Dodge Caravan 2.4 Cyl, SEVEN passenger lux-tour-de-force! Oh yeah, can't take the heat!
Price? $14,200 after 'greeen slip' and applicable rebates. 24 MPG, too!
<strong>
I see that you failed to counter my Dodge Caravan 2.4 Cyl, SEVEN passenger lux-tour-de-force! Oh yeah, can't take the heat!
Price? $14,200 after 'greeen slip' and applicable rebates. 24 MPG, too!</strong><hr></blockquote>
touché, sir. touché.
<strong>
Hmmm... let's see. My god, the amount of sheer idiocy represented in this post is beyond my comprehension.
Let's dissect, shall we? </strong><hr></blockquote>
My mistake. I failed to recognize that it's unreasonable to good-naturedly question something like brand preference. Apparently I alone among all human beings on earth have failed to recognize that BMW is and has always been by far the greatest car manufacturer ever. Thanks for setting me straight.