It's obvious because Toshiba has been doing this every year for the last six years.
It's like guessing that Apple will update their iPod lineup soon after school starts and the Back To School sales end.
Toshiba releasing 1.8? HDDs about every year or so does not equate to Toshiba will be announcing new 1.8? HDDs immediately after Apple announces a new iPod Classic. Can you show me proof of where you made such a claim before Toshiba?s announcement today?
Toshiba releasing 1.8? HDDs about every year or so does not equate to Toshiba will be announcing new 1.8? HDDs immediately after Apple announces a new iPod Classic. Can you show me proof of where you made such a claim before Toshiba?s announcement today?
That would be hard since I've made neither statement. I believe this is called a "strawman" and often used to cover up after saying something stupid.
Lets try this again: how did you come to the conclusion that 1.8" HDD drive development had "appeared" to have ceased?
Lets try this again: how did you come to the conclusion that 1.8" HDD drive development had "appeared" to have ceased?
No publicly accessible evidence from any HDD vendor that higher-capacity 1.8? HDDs existed prior to the Classic release today. Not a single appearance of a 160GB 1.8? single-platter HDD before the Classic announcement. Stating that Toshiba is likely to introduce a denser 1.8? HDD late in the calender year is not appearance, it?s a educated guess, but you likely didn?t conceive of until after the Classic was announced and 160GB SP drive was confirmed and you surely wouldn?t have known the exact date when it would be released. From all available information at the time there was no appearance of these drives on the market.
PS: There is no appearance of God so i won?t make absolute statements to God?s existence. I?m sure you?ll say ?I told you there was a God" should a God ever appear.
Doesn?t appear, because prior to the Classic announcement there was no information available on Google. ?Appears? is not a statement of fact. It is an observation based on the data at hand.
What data at hand? That there had been an update every fall for the last six years but suddenly because sometime mid summer you didn't see any new releases that advancement had appeared to cease?
It appears that you were clearly wrong. It appears that you didn't even bother to see when Toshiba did their releases. It appears you were completely unaware that Toshiba released a new 1.8" HDD every year.
How do those statements differ from your usage of the word "appears"? Oh, it appears these are correct statements based on evidence while yours was...not.
Quote:
When the 160GB Classic was announced and the size was the exact same as the 120GB Classic, guess what appeared to be the case? It wasn?t TARDIS technology, it appeared that Apple got these drives and announced them before the vendor did. That turned out to be true. Geez! You should take reading comprehension courses with Teckstud if you going to read a conditional statement as an absolute statement.
My reading comprehension is fine. Your RDF, however, is not very strong.
"1.8? HDD technology doesn?t appear to have increased capacity, reduced power usage or increased speed."
Is a factually incorrect statement. It isn't conditional as much a (hedging mealy-mouthed) assertion of a condition (development had stopped) to support your position (160GB iPod not likely) . At no point in the last 6 years did 1.8" HDD technology EVER stop increasing capacity, reduced power usage and increased in speed. Like clockwork it happened EVERY single year.
The really funny part is that even now you won't admit you were wrong. So I keep tweaking you.
What data at hand? That there had been an update every fall for the last six years but suddenly because sometime mid summer you didn't see any new releases that advancement had appeared to cease?
September 9th is mid-Summer now? Global Warning really is happening.
No publicly accessible evidence from any HDD vendor that higher-capacity 1.8? HDDs existed prior to the Classic release today.
Therefore they could not exist despite there being one every year since 2003.
Quote:
Not a single appearance of a 160GB 1.8? single-platter HDD before the Classic announcement.
Yes, because Apple ISN'T a secretive company that just handed over a $500M prepayment to Toshiba and has no pull with Toshiba to stay quiet a month or two and Apple has never had partners delay their announcements to after Apple had made theirs.
And Apple isn't one of the largest remaining user of 1.8" drives...
Quote:
Stating that Toshiba is likely to introduce a denser 1.8? HDD late in the calender year is not appearance, it?s a educated guess, but you likely didn?t conceive of until after the Classic was announced and 160GB SP drive was confirmed and you surely wouldn?t have known the exact date when it would be released. From all available information at the time there was no appearance of these drives on the market.
Which has nothing to do with your incorrect assertion that development of 1.8" HDD had "appeared" to have stopped in favor of SDD development. Would you call that an uneducated guess?
Better hang on to this--this may be literally the end of the line for the iPod classic, now fitted with a single-platter 160 GB hard drive.l.
Vinea has clearly stated that since Toshiba has released a higher capacity 1.8? HDD every year for 6 years about this time that they will continue to do so every year for the rest of eternity, even when there is no previous announcement. I guess he didn?t notice when the .85? died, followed by the 1?, then the 1.3?. Somehow 1.8? will live on forever.
Dunno when your thread was. You said "many weeks", not days. I did not bother looking for that original "many weeks ago" original thread.
I said I’ve been looking for evidence of new 1.8” HDD developments all year. Something to tip us off that the Classic would not only be kept but that the capacity would also be increasing. Just because a company isn’t releasing a product until later doesn’t mean we don’t often know about it ahead of time. Ny lack of evidence wasn’t a statement that it couldn’t exist, and you know that.
Despite what you think, 1.8” are a dying breed. If the Classic sales were low enough they would not have updated them and Toshiba may not have produced a higher-capacity 1.8” drive. This is business.
You can pooh-pooh me for looking where you weren’t and trying to hide timelines of announcements that didn’t exist when i made mention, but the fact remains that you brought it up only after it was a fact and that eventually the 1.8” HDD will stop being engineered.
Do you have any posts when the rumors of the Classic being discontinued stating that people are all crazy and that Apple will have a higher capacity Classic? I didn’t think so.
Better hang on to this--this may be literally the end of the line for the iPod classic, now fitted with a single-platter 160 GB hard drive.
In September 2010, the 128 GB flash memory 4G iPod touch will likely replace the iPod classic once and for all.
Could be. The size difference might be small enough even compared to a 200-240GB 1.8" HDD.
Flash prices have stabilized a bit even though Apple has locked in a billion worth of flash. 128GB at $399 might be doable for Apple by this time next year but more likely in 2011 given past trends.
2 years ago it was 16GB for $299. This year it's 32GB for $299. Assuming the same fairly aggressive trend line we're looking at 2 years as the most likely case.
I said I’ve been looking for evidence of new 1.8” HDD developments all year.
All year is "too soon" eh?
Quote:
Something to tip us off that the Classic would not only be kept but that the capacity would also be increasing. Just because a company isn’t releasing a product until later doesn’t mean we don’t often know about it ahead of time. Ny lack of evidence wasn’t a statement that it couldn’t exist, and you know that.
So how much warning did the market have that the 120GB single platter would appear?
Oh wait...let's see what happened on September 9 2008?
"Today, right after Steve J. rolled out a "thin" 120GB iPod classic, Toshiba announced its 120GB 4200rpm 1.8" drive, a new high for that slimmer single-platter config. Everybody knows that's the drive for classic iPods."
OMFG, Toshiba announcing a new HDD right after Apple announces a new iPod classic is such a improbable possibility that...uh...it happened last year.
The amusement continues.
Quote:
Despite what you think, 1.8” are a dying breed. If the Classic sales were low enough they would not have updated them and Toshiba may not have produced a higher-capacity 1.8” drive. This is business.
Sure. The time, however, to make that particular pronouncement of lack of evidence of advancement isn't early September 2009 but winter 2010...
Quote:
You can pooh-pooh me for looking where you weren’t and trying to hide timelines of announcements that didn’t exist when i made mention, but the fact remains that you brought it up only after it was a fact and that eventually the 1.8” HDD will stop being engineered.
Are you trying to claim that you did sooo much research you failed to note the obvious release cycle? And what happened last year when the 120GB iPod was released?
The reason why I never mentioned it before today is because I didn't care about the iPod (touch or classic) enough to read many threads about it. Despite my post count, I don't read every thread on here.
Quote:
Do you have any posts when the rumors of the Classic being discontinued stating that people are all crazy and that Apple will have a higher capacity Classic? I didn’t think so.
No, because I don't talk out of my ass so much. It keeps me from having to eat too much crow.
Sure. The time, however, to make that particular pronouncement of lack of evidence of advancement isn't early September 2009 but winter 2010...
And how exactly would it be relevant months after the event to wonder if the Classic would still be available and if it would be updated months prior?
By your reasoning, since Toshiba released a drive this year, they must surely release one next year. After all, they’ve done it since 2003, which means that they must surely release one the following year, and the year after that, etc.. It’s sad that you don’t see how this is a fallacy to think that it will or can be continued every year? At some point the development will stop, but you, for some reason, feel a need to attack me for looking for evidence of this happening or not happening prior to this iPod event and putting words in my mouth when I clearly state that I found no evidence.
Given that the 1.3" first appeared at the 2007 CES I'd say it was more stillborn than anything else.
0.85" and 1" HDDs died because it really is too small in comparison to flash regardless of areal density. Even then, they weren't around long. 2004 to 2008. They were never widely used anyway.
Flash will overtake even 2.5" drives in time. Toshiba has been a big proponent of dropping flash unit costs to push Flash to replace HDDs.
The 1.8" drives have the problem that rotational speeds will never be very high and 2.5" drives fit in netbooks just fine. So the primary niche remaining is iPods and HD cameras until 2TB SDXC cards appear anyway.
The 1.8" drives have the problem that rotational speeds will never be very high and 2.5" drives fit in netbooks just fine. So the primary niche remaining is iPods and HD cameras until 2TB SDXC cards appear anyway.
So you now admit that 1.8” will eventually not be produced at a higher capacity, thereby preventing the Classic from increasing in capacity with HDDs, despite your previous statement that because they were updated x-many years previously that they would obviously be updated again?
And how exactly would it be relevant months after the event to wonder if the Classic would still be available and if it would be updated months prior?
By your reasoning, since Toshiba released a drive this year, they must surely release one next year.
High probability that they will. And if I had to guess I'm gonna say that if they do, they'll announce it right after Steve announces the 200GB iPod Classic.
Oh, that's reductio ad absurdum by the way. Another tactic of the weak.
Fact: Toshiba released a new 1.8" HDD every year since 2003.
Fact: Toshiba announced their new 1.8" HDD AFTER Apple announced the new 120GB iPod that used it in 2008.
Projection: Toshiba will likely release a new 1.8" HDD in 2010 and announce it after their primary user (Apple) gets the honors of announcing their product first.
Reductio ad absurdum: YOU CLAIM 1.8" DRIVES WILL BE RELEASED FOREVER AND EVER AND EVER.
Nope. Just that the data points to a certain trend and you ought to have compelling reasons to suggest otherwise.
Same as the trendline that suggests 128GB iPod touch in 2011 vs 2010.
So, to recap:
2010...upgraded iPod classic likely.
2011...upgraded iPod classic not likely.
Using the projected iPod Touch size (64GB) for this year, the odds were very high that we'd see a bumped iPod classic. And we did.
Odds are good next year but not as good as 2009.
Quote:
After all, they?ve done it since 2003, which means that they must surely release one the following year, and the year after that, etc.. It?s sad that you don?t see how this is a fallacy to think that it will or can be continued every year? At some point the development will stop, but you, for some reason, feel a need to attack me for looking for evidence of this happening or not happening prior to this iPod event and putting words in my mouth when I clearly state that I found no evidence.
You found evidence to the contrary, you simply ignored it. Come on dude...the EXACT same scenario played out last year.
Here's a clearly wrong statement you made in this very thread about this subject:
"despite no evidence of Apple ever announcing a 1.8? HDD capacity upgrade before the HDD manufacturer,"
And yet googling what happened last year shows that it happened exactly this way last year. So your claiming no evidence for anything has very little credibility.
You simply didn't look. Just like you didn't look when you made that assertion of "no evidence" several posts ago.
So you now admit that 1.8? will eventually not be produced at a higher capacity, thereby preventing the Classic from increasing in capacity with HDDs, despite your previous statement that because they were updated x-many years previously that they would obviously be updated again?
Yep. Because my analysis is based on data...not whimsy and making shit up. There's clearly no evidence you did any research or thinking at all about whether Toshiba would release a bigger 1.8" HDD this year for the iPod. Because if you had, you might have noticed they did the exact thing last year...which is hardly "no evidence".
Comments
It's obvious because Toshiba has been doing this every year for the last six years.
It's like guessing that Apple will update their iPod lineup soon after school starts and the Back To School sales end.
Toshiba releasing 1.8? HDDs about every year or so does not equate to Toshiba will be announcing new 1.8? HDDs immediately after Apple announces a new iPod Classic. Can you show me proof of where you made such a claim before Toshiba?s announcement today?
Toshiba releasing 1.8? HDDs about every year or so does not equate to Toshiba will be announcing new 1.8? HDDs immediately after Apple announces a new iPod Classic. Can you show me proof of where you made such a claim before Toshiba?s announcement today?
That would be hard since I've made neither statement. I believe this is called a "strawman" and often used to cover up after saying something stupid.
Lets try this again: how did you come to the conclusion that 1.8" HDD drive development had "appeared" to have ceased?
Lets try this again: how did you come to the conclusion that 1.8" HDD drive development had "appeared" to have ceased?
No publicly accessible evidence from any HDD vendor that higher-capacity 1.8? HDDs existed prior to the Classic release today. Not a single appearance of a 160GB 1.8? single-platter HDD before the Classic announcement. Stating that Toshiba is likely to introduce a denser 1.8? HDD late in the calender year is not appearance, it?s a educated guess, but you likely didn?t conceive of until after the Classic was announced and 160GB SP drive was confirmed and you surely wouldn?t have known the exact date when it would be released. From all available information at the time there was no appearance of these drives on the market.
PS: There is no appearance of God so i won?t make absolute statements to God?s existence. I?m sure you?ll say ?I told you there was a God" should a God ever appear.
Doesn?t appear, because prior to the Classic announcement there was no information available on Google. ?Appears? is not a statement of fact. It is an observation based on the data at hand.
What data at hand? That there had been an update every fall for the last six years but suddenly because sometime mid summer you didn't see any new releases that advancement had appeared to cease?
It appears that you were clearly wrong. It appears that you didn't even bother to see when Toshiba did their releases. It appears you were completely unaware that Toshiba released a new 1.8" HDD every year.
How do those statements differ from your usage of the word "appears"? Oh, it appears these are correct statements based on evidence while yours was...not.
When the 160GB Classic was announced and the size was the exact same as the 120GB Classic, guess what appeared to be the case? It wasn?t TARDIS technology, it appeared that Apple got these drives and announced them before the vendor did. That turned out to be true. Geez! You should take reading comprehension courses with Teckstud if you going to read a conditional statement as an absolute statement.
My reading comprehension is fine. Your RDF, however, is not very strong.
"1.8? HDD technology doesn?t appear to have increased capacity, reduced power usage or increased speed."
Is a factually incorrect statement. It isn't conditional as much a (hedging mealy-mouthed) assertion of a condition (development had stopped) to support your position (160GB iPod not likely) . At no point in the last 6 years did 1.8" HDD technology EVER stop increasing capacity, reduced power usage and increased in speed. Like clockwork it happened EVERY single year.
The really funny part is that even now you won't admit you were wrong. So I keep tweaking you.
What data at hand? That there had been an update every fall for the last six years but suddenly because sometime mid summer you didn't see any new releases that advancement had appeared to cease?
September 9th is mid-Summer now? Global Warning really is happening.
In September 2010, the 128 GB flash memory 4G iPod touch will likely replace the iPod classic once and for all.
No publicly accessible evidence from any HDD vendor that higher-capacity 1.8? HDDs existed prior to the Classic release today.
Therefore they could not exist despite there being one every year since 2003.
Not a single appearance of a 160GB 1.8? single-platter HDD before the Classic announcement.
Yes, because Apple ISN'T a secretive company that just handed over a $500M prepayment to Toshiba and has no pull with Toshiba to stay quiet a month or two and Apple has never had partners delay their announcements to after Apple had made theirs.
And Apple isn't one of the largest remaining user of 1.8" drives...
Stating that Toshiba is likely to introduce a denser 1.8? HDD late in the calender year is not appearance, it?s a educated guess, but you likely didn?t conceive of until after the Classic was announced and 160GB SP drive was confirmed and you surely wouldn?t have known the exact date when it would be released. From all available information at the time there was no appearance of these drives on the market.
Which has nothing to do with your incorrect assertion that development of 1.8" HDD had "appeared" to have stopped in favor of SDD development. Would you call that an uneducated guess?
Maybe you'll be right in 2010.
September 9th is mid-Summer now? Global Warning really is happening.
Dunno when your thread was. You said "many weeks", not days. I did not bother looking for that original "many weeks ago" original thread.
Better hang on to this--this may be literally the end of the line for the iPod classic, now fitted with a single-platter 160 GB hard drive.l.
Vinea has clearly stated that since Toshiba has released a higher capacity 1.8? HDD every year for 6 years about this time that they will continue to do so every year for the rest of eternity, even when there is no previous announcement. I guess he didn?t notice when the .85? died, followed by the 1?, then the 1.3?. Somehow 1.8? will live on forever.
Dunno when your thread was. You said "many weeks", not days. I did not bother looking for that original "many weeks ago" original thread.
I said I’ve been looking for evidence of new 1.8” HDD developments all year. Something to tip us off that the Classic would not only be kept but that the capacity would also be increasing. Just because a company isn’t releasing a product until later doesn’t mean we don’t often know about it ahead of time. Ny lack of evidence wasn’t a statement that it couldn’t exist, and you know that.
Despite what you think, 1.8” are a dying breed. If the Classic sales were low enough they would not have updated them and Toshiba may not have produced a higher-capacity 1.8” drive. This is business.
You can pooh-pooh me for looking where you weren’t and trying to hide timelines of announcements that didn’t exist when i made mention, but the fact remains that you brought it up only after it was a fact and that eventually the 1.8” HDD will stop being engineered.
Do you have any posts when the rumors of the Classic being discontinued stating that people are all crazy and that Apple will have a higher capacity Classic? I didn’t think so.
Better hang on to this--this may be literally the end of the line for the iPod classic, now fitted with a single-platter 160 GB hard drive.
In September 2010, the 128 GB flash memory 4G iPod touch will likely replace the iPod classic once and for all.
Could be. The size difference might be small enough even compared to a 200-240GB 1.8" HDD.
Flash prices have stabilized a bit even though Apple has locked in a billion worth of flash. 128GB at $399 might be doable for Apple by this time next year but more likely in 2011 given past trends.
2 years ago it was 16GB for $299. This year it's 32GB for $299. Assuming the same fairly aggressive trend line we're looking at 2 years as the most likely case.
I said I’ve been looking for evidence of new 1.8” HDD developments all year.
All year is "too soon" eh?
Something to tip us off that the Classic would not only be kept but that the capacity would also be increasing. Just because a company isn’t releasing a product until later doesn’t mean we don’t often know about it ahead of time. Ny lack of evidence wasn’t a statement that it couldn’t exist, and you know that.
So how much warning did the market have that the 120GB single platter would appear?
Oh wait...let's see what happened on September 9 2008?
"Today, right after Steve J. rolled out a "thin" 120GB iPod classic, Toshiba announced its 120GB 4200rpm 1.8" drive, a new high for that slimmer single-platter config. Everybody knows that's the drive for classic iPods."
http://gizmodo.com/5047611/toshibas-...the-240gb-ipod
OMFG, Toshiba announcing a new HDD right after Apple announces a new iPod classic is such a improbable possibility that...uh...it happened last year.
The amusement continues.
Despite what you think, 1.8” are a dying breed. If the Classic sales were low enough they would not have updated them and Toshiba may not have produced a higher-capacity 1.8” drive. This is business.
Sure. The time, however, to make that particular pronouncement of lack of evidence of advancement isn't early September 2009 but winter 2010...
You can pooh-pooh me for looking where you weren’t and trying to hide timelines of announcements that didn’t exist when i made mention, but the fact remains that you brought it up only after it was a fact and that eventually the 1.8” HDD will stop being engineered.
Are you trying to claim that you did sooo much research you failed to note the obvious release cycle?
The reason why I never mentioned it before today is because I didn't care about the iPod (touch or classic) enough to read many threads about it. Despite my post count, I don't read every thread on here.
Do you have any posts when the rumors of the Classic being discontinued stating that people are all crazy and that Apple will have a higher capacity Classic? I didn’t think so.
No, because I don't talk out of my ass so much. It keeps me from having to eat too much crow.
Sure. The time, however, to make that particular pronouncement of lack of evidence of advancement isn't early September 2009 but winter 2010...
And how exactly would it be relevant months after the event to wonder if the Classic would still be available and if it would be updated months prior?
By your reasoning, since Toshiba released a drive this year, they must surely release one next year. After all, they’ve done it since 2003, which means that they must surely release one the following year, and the year after that, etc.. It’s sad that you don’t see how this is a fallacy to think that it will or can be continued every year? At some point the development will stop, but you, for some reason, feel a need to attack me for looking for evidence of this happening or not happening prior to this iPod event and putting words in my mouth when I clearly state that I found no evidence.
then the 1.3?.
Given that the 1.3" first appeared at the 2007 CES I'd say it was more stillborn than anything else.
0.85" and 1" HDDs died because it really is too small in comparison to flash regardless of areal density. Even then, they weren't around long. 2004 to 2008. They were never widely used anyway.
Flash will overtake even 2.5" drives in time. Toshiba has been a big proponent of dropping flash unit costs to push Flash to replace HDDs.
The 1.8" drives have the problem that rotational speeds will never be very high and 2.5" drives fit in netbooks just fine. So the primary niche remaining is iPods and HD cameras until 2TB SDXC cards appear anyway.
The 1.8" drives have the problem that rotational speeds will never be very high and 2.5" drives fit in netbooks just fine. So the primary niche remaining is iPods and HD cameras until 2TB SDXC cards appear anyway.
So you now admit that 1.8” will eventually not be produced at a higher capacity, thereby preventing the Classic from increasing in capacity with HDDs, despite your previous statement that because they were updated x-many years previously that they would obviously be updated again?
And how exactly would it be relevant months after the event to wonder if the Classic would still be available and if it would be updated months prior?
By your reasoning, since Toshiba released a drive this year, they must surely release one next year.
High probability that they will. And if I had to guess I'm gonna say that if they do, they'll announce it right after Steve announces the 200GB iPod Classic.
Oh, that's reductio ad absurdum by the way. Another tactic of the weak.
Fact: Toshiba released a new 1.8" HDD every year since 2003.
Fact: Toshiba announced their new 1.8" HDD AFTER Apple announced the new 120GB iPod that used it in 2008.
Projection: Toshiba will likely release a new 1.8" HDD in 2010 and announce it after their primary user (Apple) gets the honors of announcing their product first.
Reductio ad absurdum: YOU CLAIM 1.8" DRIVES WILL BE RELEASED FOREVER AND EVER AND EVER.
Nope. Just that the data points to a certain trend and you ought to have compelling reasons to suggest otherwise.
Same as the trendline that suggests 128GB iPod touch in 2011 vs 2010.
So, to recap:
2010...upgraded iPod classic likely.
2011...upgraded iPod classic not likely.
Using the projected iPod Touch size (64GB) for this year, the odds were very high that we'd see a bumped iPod classic. And we did.
Odds are good next year but not as good as 2009.
After all, they?ve done it since 2003, which means that they must surely release one the following year, and the year after that, etc.. It?s sad that you don?t see how this is a fallacy to think that it will or can be continued every year? At some point the development will stop, but you, for some reason, feel a need to attack me for looking for evidence of this happening or not happening prior to this iPod event and putting words in my mouth when I clearly state that I found no evidence.
You found evidence to the contrary, you simply ignored it. Come on dude...the EXACT same scenario played out last year.
Here's a clearly wrong statement you made in this very thread about this subject:
"despite no evidence of Apple ever announcing a 1.8? HDD capacity upgrade before the HDD manufacturer,"
And yet googling what happened last year shows that it happened exactly this way last year. So your claiming no evidence for anything has very little credibility.
You simply didn't look. Just like you didn't look when you made that assertion of "no evidence" several posts ago.
So you now admit that 1.8? will eventually not be produced at a higher capacity, thereby preventing the Classic from increasing in capacity with HDDs, despite your previous statement that because they were updated x-many years previously that they would obviously be updated again?
Yep. Because my analysis is based on data...not whimsy and making shit up. There's clearly no evidence you did any research or thinking at all about whether Toshiba would release a bigger 1.8" HDD this year for the iPod. Because if you had, you might have noticed they did the exact thing last year...which is hardly "no evidence".
Next year the flash memory will be up to 128MB. I can see Apple introducing a basic ultra slim iPod classic in black & white.
I think the classic is here to stay.
Next year the flash memory will be up to 128MB. I can see Apple introducing a basic ultra slim iPod classic in black & white.
You mean 128GB