Yeah sort of like GM where they preferred their corporate heads in the sand ignoring the competition. Frankly you get no support from me in your position because it represents an attitude that has done a lot of damage to corporate America and their ability to compete. Once you discount the viability of a competitors product you pretty much doom your company.
Again this is exactly the attitude that has hurt corporate America and our ability to compete. Deny that the competition has a viable and compelling product and shoot the messager. In any event go ahead and maintain your attitude, see how it benefits you in the long term.
As a side note I don't see this as Balmer flying off the handle. On the contrary it looks like somebody that is quick thinking leveraging an opportunity that came his way in a funny way. Or as somebody else suggested the happening was staged.
Dave
Dave, honestly, do you believe what you've just said?
I'm not going to defend corporate America. But if you don't believe in the company that pays your wages, why should they believe in you? Maybe the individual is involved in the development of win mobile. Which begs the question, 'why aren't you making our products better?' If I was an employer and saw that I would wonder if the individual was passionate enough about our business to be a part of its future. I really doubt that employees that aren't passionate about the company they work for do a very good job.
I don't know if the guy will get fired, I hope not, or if the whole event was staged. But if it wasn't and that was a genuine expression of anger on Ballmer's part I suspect that if he isn't fired it'll probably affect his ability to get promoted or affect his salary increases in the future. It may not be right but that's the way it works.
That's a problem, not with the individual, but with some corporate culture mindsets, which is often myopic and narrow. If they fire people for buying the "wrong" product with their own earnings, you're going to wither away your intelligence base even more, it results in intellectual incest and even more of a yes-man mindset. Does a company want people that are broad minded, or people that just buy the party line with their own earnings because that's who writes their checks? People buying the competitor's product should either be a clue either that something is wrong with your own product, or an indication that your workers aren't so henpecked as to blindly go along with the corporate line when maybe something else suits them better.
We have enough of this us-vs.-them, friend or foe, ally or traitor mindset, and frankly, I think this kind of attitude is poisonous.
But this was at a MS corporate function. What does it say about MS products when their employees show up at functions or in public with competitor's products? People aren't stupid. If MS won't eat their own cooking why should they? I certainly wouldn't.
That's why it was stupid for Ballmer to draw attention to it IMO.
Apple touted LP as a way to package extras with Albums. It is a nice thought but what if they have plans beyound that?
Some have suggested it is a back door into the E-Book world which is an interesting idea. Today I see that a comic has already been released in this format. It is like innovation has started before the format has had a week to breath. Further it has already sparked ideas in my mind.
So yeah more crap to Jack up the price of a song, that we don't need. The potential is there for much more though. It will be interesting to see how this pans out.
Dave
I see it as a spin on all the concessions Apple had to make to renew their download music licensing agreement and secure the mobile (over-the-air) music licensing agreement (which was not part of the original agreement). Apple didn't want tiered pricing, they didn't want all this other stuff, but now that they have to sell it ... Personally I think Apple hopes this dies an early death. Jobs fought for so long for 99 cents a song, I can't imagine they're too ecstatic about catering to the music industry's every idea for increasing their own revenue.
I think that SJ should personally call this kid and offer him a job!
You might be right.
Or, maybe he only makes the right decision half the time.
Of course, he may be smarter than I think. If he were fired and wasn't compensated appropriately, it would make one hell of a wrongful termination case.
What's wrong with more choice, and who is this "we" you speak for?
I guess that was just Apple and myself who insisted on 99 cents a song (no exceptions) and albums have to be available as individual song downloads. This new push to sell "extras" is what the music industry insisted Apple allow in order to renew their licensing agreements (along with tiered pricing, which Jobs was dead-set against). Its a way to get AROUND Apple's pricing policy (which is now tiered thanks to said music industry). This is a single song being sold for $1.99 as an "Album" on iTunes, and a lot of people seem to be all for it. This is the music industry's idea of "how we can make some more money", not Apple's idea of "let's give the people what they want".
Ballmer can be an idiot sometimes with his antics, but the employee stupid enough to show up at a MS corporate function with a competitors product gets no sympathy from me.
He's lucky if he's able to keep his job. Especially now when times are difficult and talented people are without jobs.
Jeez - that's pretty harsh man. I'm sure he's running windows at home
Why are people like you so harsh? You seem to WANT people to get fired for innocuous things that don't even come CLOSE to dismissable "offenses". Chill the heck out and try being nice for a change.
You may be right, but can you really imagine that an Apple employee who had the choice of using an iPod or a Zune would actually choose the latter on purpose? Steve might actually suggest a brain transplant to such an idiot.
I guess that was just Apple and myself who insisted on 99 cents a song (no exceptions) and albums have to be available as individual song downloads. This new push to sell "extras" is what the music industry insisted Apple allow in order to renew their licensing agreements (along with tiered pricing, which Jobs was dead-set against). Its a way to get AROUND Apple's pricing policy (which is now tiered thanks to said music industry). This is a single song being sold for $1.99 as an "Album" on iTunes, and a lot of people seem to be all for it. This is the music industry's idea of "how we can make some more money", not Apple's idea of "let's give the people what they want".
Now, that's even more wrong. The music industry is not supporting "iTunes LP" and they have not asked for it. Just the opposite; they are working on a competing "value-added" format on their own. People have been asking Apple for "extras" all the time: full liner notes, lyrics, videos, etc. and also for extras with movie downloads. Just because you do not want it, it does not mean they are not "giving the people what they want". If you do not comprehend that the "song" described in the article contains tons more content and value than a single song, it looks a bit like making your point is more important than facts? Hint: You can buy the same song without the extras for 99 cents in the same store. Big deal.
That's a problem, not with the individual, but with some corporate culture mindsets, which is often myopic and narrow. If they fire people for buying the "wrong" product with their own earnings, they're going to wither away their intelligence base even more, it usually results in intellectual incest and even more of a yes-man mindset. Does a company want people that are broad minded, or people that just buy the party line with their own earnings because that's who writes their checks? People buying the competitor's product should either be a clue either that something is wrong with your own product, or an indication that your workers aren't so henpecked as to blindly go along with the corporate line when maybe something else suits them better.
We have enough of this us-vs.-them, friend or foe, ally or traitor mindset, and frankly, I think this kind of attitude is poisonous.
Agreed - I just don't see this as a big deal. I doubt Ballmer actually cares - sounds like he was just using it as a funny off-the-cuff way to rally the troops a little - get some boos.
No, I don't think Apple would hire him in the first place.
Apple's hatred of MS's dominance is so great that I don't think SJ would hire anybody who works for MS either. So if I were this guy I wouldn't be waiting for a call from SJ.
But this was at a MS corporate function. What does it say about MS products when their employees show up at functions or in public with competitor's products? People aren't stupid. If MS won't eat their own cooking why should they? I certainly wouldn't.
That's why it was stupid for Ballmer to draw attention to it IMO.
Sure, but to suggest that it would have been acceptable to fire them? That's the nadir of corporate insecurity, IMO.
Not only that, Apple themselves used Windows Mobile based devices in their own stores. What did you way about eating your own cooking?
Sure, but to suggest that it would have been acceptable to fire them? That's the nadir of corporate insecurity, IMO.
Not only that, Apple themselves used Windows Mobile based devices in their own stores. What did you way about eating your own cooking?
I didn't say it would be acceptable to fire them. But in corporate America, and in Japan I suspect, its not uncommon. And to clear, I think it was poor judgement on both Ballmer and the employees part. The employee should be discreet about using a competitors product and Ballmer shouldn't have made a big display out of the iPhone. He only brought unnecessary attention to MS employees using iPhones.
And funny you bring up the Win Mobile devices and their use in Apple stores. Seems like we had a thread on that and that many felt it was important for Apple to develop a POS product so Apple wouldn't need the Win Mobile devices.
PS. Apple gave all their employees an iPhone in 07. While it was a generous act, I suspect it was also a subtle message to the employees. We going to eat our cooking.
Microsoft needs to embrace the iPhone and iPod rather than mock it and treat it like dirt.
Microsoft has failed with Zune and though they may try again with Zune II, the iPod and iTunes are the clear market leaders by a very large margin. Though MS has a large presence with Windows Mobile on other phones, consumers make the choice that is most desirable for them.
The App Store has been used 1.8 billion times so far to download software applications to the iPhone and iPod touch, many of which come with a price. There are at present, 65,000 applications in the App Store ... yet the largest software company on the planet authors just 2 of those (both free).
I suspect you will likely continue to act like a big baby and fake stomp an iPhone on stage from time to time, but that won't get people to buy, use, and love Microsoft products.
Comments
Yeah sort of like GM where they preferred their corporate heads in the sand ignoring the competition. Frankly you get no support from me in your position because it represents an attitude that has done a lot of damage to corporate America and their ability to compete. Once you discount the viability of a competitors product you pretty much doom your company.
Again this is exactly the attitude that has hurt corporate America and our ability to compete. Deny that the competition has a viable and compelling product and shoot the messager. In any event go ahead and maintain your attitude, see how it benefits you in the long term.
As a side note I don't see this as Balmer flying off the handle. On the contrary it looks like somebody that is quick thinking leveraging an opportunity that came his way in a funny way. Or as somebody else suggested the happening was staged.
Dave
Dave, honestly, do you believe what you've just said?
I'm not going to defend corporate America. But if you don't believe in the company that pays your wages, why should they believe in you? Maybe the individual is involved in the development of win mobile. Which begs the question, 'why aren't you making our products better?' If I was an employer and saw that I would wonder if the individual was passionate enough about our business to be a part of its future. I really doubt that employees that aren't passionate about the company they work for do a very good job.
I don't know if the guy will get fired, I hope not, or if the whole event was staged. But if it wasn't and that was a genuine expression of anger on Ballmer's part I suspect that if he isn't fired it'll probably affect his ability to get promoted or affect his salary increases in the future. It may not be right but that's the way it works.
That's a problem, not with the individual, but with some corporate culture mindsets, which is often myopic and narrow. If they fire people for buying the "wrong" product with their own earnings, you're going to wither away your intelligence base even more, it results in intellectual incest and even more of a yes-man mindset. Does a company want people that are broad minded, or people that just buy the party line with their own earnings because that's who writes their checks? People buying the competitor's product should either be a clue either that something is wrong with your own product, or an indication that your workers aren't so henpecked as to blindly go along with the corporate line when maybe something else suits them better.
We have enough of this us-vs.-them, friend or foe, ally or traitor mindset, and frankly, I think this kind of attitude is poisonous.
But this was at a MS corporate function. What does it say about MS products when their employees show up at functions or in public with competitor's products? People aren't stupid. If MS won't eat their own cooking why should they? I certainly wouldn't.
That's why it was stupid for Ballmer to draw attention to it IMO.
Apple touted LP as a way to package extras with Albums. It is a nice thought but what if they have plans beyound that?
Some have suggested it is a back door into the E-Book world which is an interesting idea. Today I see that a comic has already been released in this format. It is like innovation has started before the format has had a week to breath. Further it has already sparked ideas in my mind.
So yeah more crap to Jack up the price of a song, that we don't need. The potential is there for much more though. It will be interesting to see how this pans out.
Dave
I see it as a spin on all the concessions Apple had to make to renew their download music licensing agreement and secure the mobile (over-the-air) music licensing agreement (which was not part of the original agreement). Apple didn't want tiered pricing, they didn't want all this other stuff, but now that they have to sell it ... Personally I think Apple hopes this dies an early death. Jobs fought for so long for 99 cents a song, I can't imagine they're too ecstatic about catering to the music industry's every idea for increasing their own revenue.
I think that SJ should personally call this kid and offer him a job!
You might be right.
Or, maybe he only makes the right decision half the time.
Of course, he may be smarter than I think. If he were fired and wasn't compensated appropriately, it would make one hell of a wrongful termination case.
What's wrong with more choice, and who is this "we" you speak for?
I guess that was just Apple and myself who insisted on 99 cents a song (no exceptions) and albums have to be available as individual song downloads. This new push to sell "extras" is what the music industry insisted Apple allow in order to renew their licensing agreements (along with tiered pricing, which Jobs was dead-set against). Its a way to get AROUND Apple's pricing policy (which is now tiered thanks to said music industry). This is a single song being sold for $1.99 as an "Album" on iTunes, and a lot of people seem to be all for it. This is the music industry's idea of "how we can make some more money", not Apple's idea of "let's give the people what they want".
Ballmer can be an idiot sometimes with his antics, but the employee stupid enough to show up at a MS corporate function with a competitors product gets no sympathy from me.
He's lucky if he's able to keep his job. Especially now when times are difficult and talented people are without jobs.
Jeez - that's pretty harsh man. I'm sure he's running windows at home
Why are people like you so harsh? You seem to WANT people to get fired for innocuous things that don't even come CLOSE to dismissable "offenses". Chill the heck out and try being nice for a change.
"Right arm! Farm out!"
You may be right, but can you really imagine that an Apple employee who had the choice of using an iPod or a Zune would actually choose the latter on purpose? Steve might actually suggest a brain transplant to such an idiot.
Boom!
Right- but imagine if SJ saw a Zune on his premises? "GET OUT NOW!!!!!"
No, I don't think Apple would hire him in the first place.
I guess that was just Apple and myself who insisted on 99 cents a song (no exceptions) and albums have to be available as individual song downloads. This new push to sell "extras" is what the music industry insisted Apple allow in order to renew their licensing agreements (along with tiered pricing, which Jobs was dead-set against). Its a way to get AROUND Apple's pricing policy (which is now tiered thanks to said music industry). This is a single song being sold for $1.99 as an "Album" on iTunes, and a lot of people seem to be all for it. This is the music industry's idea of "how we can make some more money", not Apple's idea of "let's give the people what they want".
Now, that's even more wrong. The music industry is not supporting "iTunes LP" and they have not asked for it. Just the opposite; they are working on a competing "value-added" format on their own. People have been asking Apple for "extras" all the time: full liner notes, lyrics, videos, etc. and also for extras with movie downloads. Just because you do not want it, it does not mean they are not "giving the people what they want". If you do not comprehend that the "song" described in the article contains tons more content and value than a single song, it looks a bit like making your point is more important than facts? Hint: You can buy the same song without the extras for 99 cents in the same store. Big deal.
That's a problem, not with the individual, but with some corporate culture mindsets, which is often myopic and narrow. If they fire people for buying the "wrong" product with their own earnings, they're going to wither away their intelligence base even more, it usually results in intellectual incest and even more of a yes-man mindset. Does a company want people that are broad minded, or people that just buy the party line with their own earnings because that's who writes their checks? People buying the competitor's product should either be a clue either that something is wrong with your own product, or an indication that your workers aren't so henpecked as to blindly go along with the corporate line when maybe something else suits them better.
We have enough of this us-vs.-them, friend or foe, ally or traitor mindset, and frankly, I think this kind of attitude is poisonous.
Agreed - I just don't see this as a big deal. I doubt Ballmer actually cares - sounds like he was just using it as a funny off-the-cuff way to rally the troops a little - get some boos.
No, I don't think Apple would hire him in the first place.
Apple's hatred of MS's dominance is so great that I don't think SJ would hire anybody who works for MS either. So if I were this guy I wouldn't be waiting for a call from SJ.
But this was at a MS corporate function. What does it say about MS products when their employees show up at functions or in public with competitor's products? People aren't stupid. If MS won't eat their own cooking why should they? I certainly wouldn't.
That's why it was stupid for Ballmer to draw attention to it IMO.
Sure, but to suggest that it would have been acceptable to fire them? That's the nadir of corporate insecurity, IMO.
Not only that, Apple themselves used Windows Mobile based devices in their own stores. What did you way about eating your own cooking?
Sure, but to suggest that it would have been acceptable to fire them? That's the nadir of corporate insecurity, IMO.
Not only that, Apple themselves used Windows Mobile based devices in their own stores. What did you way about eating your own cooking?
I didn't say it would be acceptable to fire them. But in corporate America, and in Japan I suspect, its not uncommon. And to clear, I think it was poor judgement on both Ballmer and the employees part. The employee should be discreet about using a competitors product and Ballmer shouldn't have made a big display out of the iPhone. He only brought unnecessary attention to MS employees using iPhones.
And funny you bring up the Win Mobile devices and their use in Apple stores. Seems like we had a thread on that and that many felt it was important for Apple to develop a POS product so Apple wouldn't need the Win Mobile devices.
PS. Apple gave all their employees an iPhone in 07. While it was a generous act, I suspect it was also a subtle message to the employees. We going to eat our cooking.
Are you kidding? Jobs would probably laugh. I know I would - seeing a Zune anywhere would crack me up.
No kidding. Have you ever seen one out in the wild? I have not.
Microsoft needs to embrace the iPhone and iPod rather than mock it and treat it like dirt.
Microsoft has failed with Zune and though they may try again with Zune II, the iPod and iTunes are the clear market leaders by a very large margin. Though MS has a large presence with Windows Mobile on other phones, consumers make the choice that is most desirable for them.
The App Store has been used 1.8 billion times so far to download software applications to the iPhone and iPod touch, many of which come with a price. There are at present, 65,000 applications in the App Store ... yet the largest software company on the planet authors just 2 of those (both free).
I suspect you will likely continue to act like a big baby and fake stomp an iPhone on stage from time to time, but that won't get people to buy, use, and love Microsoft products.
Joe User