You are incorrect. They are successful because Windows users decide to use them. Over 90% of ipods and iphones are synced to Windows systems.
Not sure how to respond to the if Windows was never invented. What I can say is I still doubt Apple would have been the OS leader seeing in 30 years they still haven't been able to come up with a decent Office Suite. Also if Apple really wanted to cater to the market they would have opened up their OS a long time ago. Clearly they can not manage all the hardware option out in the world like MS can.
Steve Jobs is one of the biggest protection freaks in the world.
There is a point here.
One of the reasons for iPod popularity is in the fact that Microsoft didn't put much of an effort into media players before, thus making a lot of space for Apple, even within their own backyard.
If anyone else managed to grow strong with different platform - say, Commodore with Amiga - no one can say what would happen. Maybe Commodore would have successful line of their own media players, thus minimizing Apple's success?
As it is, I think it is safe to say Microsoft is responsible for iPod success, though more for not competing with Apple than for not preventing Apple from populating Microsoft's market.
Note: Recent iPod models that do not support FireWire charging, such as the iPod nano (4th generation), and the iPod touch (2nd generation), will not charge when used with the iPod Hi-Fi.
Your just one of those people that believe you are elite because you use an Apple product which is the single biggest downfall to Apple.
Not sure what is so funny the fact is if it wasn't for Windows users ipod sales would drop 90%. All you have to do is look at PC market share and anyone can come to the conclusion that without Windows users Apple product growth would be very limited.
I never said the ipod or iphone was a bad product, which is why Windows users use them. The Zune most likely never took off because it came to the market too late, after Apple had already been around a long time in that market. Its not rocket science. I know guys like you hold onto ipod sales for dear life because its the only thing Apple had lead in for 30 years.
I one of those elite..stop assuming mate, as Yuusharo so clearly stated and I agree, I am person who is loyal to the BEST product, not because it is Apple. I do like Apple has a company, but if the product stinks, I would not buy it.
Btw: Who said you said anything about iPod being a bad product. Take time to read replies, do not get emotional and start ranting, believing in your head that this is personal attack on you or MS. I do attack MS but not because it MS, but for some of the bad product decisions and lack of innovation in some areas.
If you read the forum ( look for reply #24) carefully, I actually told someone to review Zune HD, since if I had not invested so much time/money in iPhone, I would consider the product.
come lets not get carried away here, MS were the ones that were sued for their internet browser behavior, which affected numerous companies.
MS still has a great lead on Apple when it comes to killing competition, but I understand your point.
... And good old US of America used to exterminate their native inhabitants, yet today it is considered one of the most democratic countries on this planet.
Yes, MS was really nasty 10+ years ago, but 10 years in IT is distant history.
Today, Apple is much more extreme in dealing with competition and restricting their own users in every possible way than Microsoft is, and we are living in today.
As an iPhone user, I really like device - really like it - and software is greatly thought of and executed for mobile device, but I keep thinking iPhone could have been so much more without Apple's paranoid enforcements, just as it is. In fact, after just 3 weeks of having it, I'm already considering an option to jailbreak it.
... And good old US of America used to exterminate their native inhabitants, yet today it is considered one of the most democratic countries on this planet.
Yes, MS was really nasty 10+ years ago, but 10 years in IT is distant history.
Today, Apple is much more extreme in dealing with competition and restricting their own users in every possible way than Microsoft is, and we are living in today.
As an iPhone user, I really like device - really like it - and software is greatly thought of and executed for mobile device, but I keep thinking iPhone could have been so much more without Apple's paranoid enforcements, just as it is. In fact, after just 3 weeks of having it, I'm already considering an option to jailbreak it.
I think I did say I understand his point, so what was your point about my post??
Exactly. I don't like MS any more than the next person here. I feel they have poor business practices. However, when they do make good products (and yes, it DOES happen), then I praise those products. I also don't like Apple for their business practices (being very anti-competitive and closed) but when they have a good product, I'll praise it too. I like the hardware in the iPod Touch and think the device is wonderful. I however hate the OS and its limitations it puts on the hardware.
But yeah, if MS were to release the App, I'm sure people would do exactly as you said, install and delete without trying JUST to give MS a One Star... which has the effect of nothing against the company they hate so much.
BTW, after reading your other posts on the matter, I'm very glad someone have views like me around here.
I think you and yuusharo are my two never-known-about-separated-at-birth twin brothers
When you look up the word Bulls**t, it says "see Microsoft". PC users are full of BS. Can't handle the truth. Carry on using your bloated Windows (a copy of OS X), 8 billion viruses (uniquely Windows only), malware (windows only), crashes, file incompatibility, software incompatibility, even certain MS products aren't backward or forward compatible. The huge extra cost in staff wages to run networks, solve IT problems etc. iTunes is still nearly 90% of what it was when it was originally released. So not sure where you get bloatware from. It just works, unlike 90% of MS software. If Windows and Ms Office aren't bloatware, I don't know what is.
An ex PC User.
Yeah, it just works... until your new HDD starts beeping and clicking, your "superdrive" dies on you, your graphics card starts freezing, your display gets all corrupted and your shiny laptop gets cracks all over it.
Last time I was checking, list of incompatible OSX software was pretty substantial. Hardly any smaller than Vista incompatibilities.
iTunes is horrible bloatware, and it even doesn't do some simple basic tasks any half-decent media player should do - like monitoring media folder. If I could sync music on my iPhone with WMP, I'd switch in a split second. If I could sync iPhone apps with something else, iTunes would be immediately uninstalled and its sorrow remains purged with Crap Cleaner.
Yes, I loath it that much, unfortunately have to use it because Steve-o said so. \
Yeah, it just works... until your new HDD starts beeping and clicking, your "superdrive" dies on you, your graphics card starts freezing, your display gets all corrupted and your shiny laptop gets cracks all over it.
Last time I was checking, list of incompatible OSX software was pretty substantial. Hardly any smaller than Vista incompatibilities.
iTunes is horrible bloatware, and it even doesn't do some simple basic tasks any half-decent media player should do - like monitoring media folder. If I could sync music on my iPhone with WMP, I'd switch in a split second. If I could sync iPhone apps with something else, iTunes would be immediately uninstalled and its sorrow remains purged with Crap Cleaner.
Yes, I loath it that much, unfortunately have to use it because Steve-o said so. \
Good to hear personal experiences, but anyone can provide actually factual data of precenatge of people are not satisfied with iTunes, since I could not found it any place on internet.
which OSX are you refering to Panther, Tiger, Leopard or Snow Leopard ? Can you link, where your saw that list? (i.e., OSX (which one) vs Vista).
It just works is a joke. The last verison of itunes had several problems for people that had large libraries. Everytime Apple puts out a patch you have to pray to god you don't need a reinstall of the entire OS because OSX is not smart enough to backout updates. You download a bad patch from Apple your are stuck doing an Archive and Install. Its a joke.
What are you an ex pc user from 1970? I haven't had a virus in about 7 years. OSX can't even remotely network as well as Vista. Maybe your just not smart enough to know how to use a PC.
I like to have options like if I want to use a certain driver my entire computer is controlled by what Steve Jobs wants me to run. If I want to back something out I can without doing an entire reinstall of my OS. Apple puts in a patch and its bad which many times they are your pretty much screwed until they get around to figuring it out.
If you are running weekly backups via Time Machine or Carbon Copy, then archive and install is non-issue. Of course, maybe you're not smart enough to figure that out on OS X (Sorry, but after reading the "Maybe your just not smart enough to know how to use a PC", that had to be done). Like most everything else with computers, these "issues" are normally user related IMO.
Yeah, it just works... until your new HDD starts beeping and clicking, your "superdrive" dies on you, your graphics card starts freezing, your display gets all corrupted and your shiny laptop gets cracks all over it.
Last time I was checking, list of incompatible OSX software was pretty substantial. Hardly any smaller than Vista incompatibilities.
iTunes is horrible bloatware, and it even doesn't do some simple basic tasks any half-decent media player should do - like monitoring media folder. If I could sync music on my iPhone with WMP, I'd switch in a split second. If I could sync iPhone apps with something else, iTunes would be immediately uninstalled and its sorrow remains purged with Crap Cleaner.
Yes, I loath it that much, unfortunately have to use it because Steve-o said so. \
I agree with "souliisoul". Provide some links next time or expect to be called out for "BS".
One of the reasons for iPod popularity is in the fact that Microsoft didn't put much of an effort into media players before, thus making a lot of space for Apple, even within their own backyard.
If anyone else managed to grow strong with different platform - say, Commodore with Amiga - no one can say what would happen. Maybe Commodore would have successful line of their own media players, thus minimizing Apple's success?
As it is, I think it is safe to say Microsoft is responsible for iPod success, though more for not competing with Apple than for not preventing Apple from populating Microsoft's market.
So what is your defense for Microsoft losing market share in the mobile market, especially since the release of the iPhone? I see where you are coming from and company like Microsoft can't be counted out of anything, but your logic seems bit flawed.
You must be the only PC user, who knows how to use one. 99% of PC users don't, thats why call centers around the world are full of an army of staff, just to answer simple questions, like how to switch it off.
My company doesn't use PCs, because they are crap, not even for accounts. And never will. And I thought this was a MAC forum, not a PC one. You obviously don't know what you are talking about, since neither MS or Apple were around in 1970. One big dumb-ass PC User.http://forums.appleinsider.com/images/smilies/lol.gif
Today, Apple is much more extreme in dealing with competition and restricting their own users in every possible way
You're saying that as if the average user is suffering. In fact the average user is actively, repeatedly, choosing this model. Apple's "walled garden" approach is golden, and it's paying off.
In what way has Microsoft tried to kill competition illegally? That's a pretty bold statement.
You haven't been paying attention then.
AARP code to made it appear that Windows 3.1 would not load under the superior DR-DOS of the time. When Windows tried to load, it detected if it was MS-DOS or not but looking at the location of code pages. If different from MS-DOS, it would terminate and provide a bullsh*t error message implying that it would not work with DR-DOS. That is the single biggest reason why MS started up the development of Windows95. Before then, MS made more money selling two products. First, they sold DOS, then got people to fork over for Windows 3.1. DR-DOS was faster than MS' product, more stable, and cheaper. More proof that the better product rarely survives an attack by a monopolist.
It's binding agreements with nearly every OEM which still are unchallenged. All the OEMs live in fear of Microsoft. Dell, for example, really can't sell machines without Windows and so Dell makes sure they keep Microsoft happy because Acer would love nothing better than to see Dell unable to ship Windows. Just using the two as an example. This is why you cannot buy a consumer-level machine from nearly every single major OEM *without* Windows on it. This is the basis for the "Microsoft tax".
If you are running weekly backups via Time Machine or Carbon Copy, then archive and install is non-issue. Of course, maybe you're not smart enough to figure that out on OS X (Sorry, but after reading the "Maybe your just not smart enough to know how to use a PC", that had to be done). Like most everything else with computers, these "issues" are normally user related IMO.
Time Machine has not exactly been around or a long time compared to Windows restore. Yes this problem has been resolved with Time Machine but that didn't help the last ten years.
As far as how smart I am I think I have this Applle stuff down seeing I have been a systems programmer for IBM for 22 years now and durning that time have always had a Mac and PC on my desk.
You must be the only PC user, who knows how to use one. 99% of PC users don't, thats why call centers around the world are full of an army of staff, just to answer simple questions, like how to switch it off.
My company doesn't use PCs, because they are crap, not even for accounts. And never will. And I thought this was a MAC forum, not a PC one. You obviously don't know what you are talking about, since neither MS or Apple were around in 1970. One big dumb-ass PC User.http://forums.appleinsider.com/images/smilies/lol.gif
Apple was certainly around in the 1970's and Bill Gates and Steve Jobs worked together in the 1970's. Learn to read.
In fact let me give you this article that shows you the war was over a long time ago.
Comments
What are people using iPod HiFis these days for? Aren't they incompatible with today's iPods?
No, they're not.
You are incorrect. They are successful because Windows users decide to use them. Over 90% of ipods and iphones are synced to Windows systems.
Not sure how to respond to the if Windows was never invented. What I can say is I still doubt Apple would have been the OS leader seeing in 30 years they still haven't been able to come up with a decent Office Suite. Also if Apple really wanted to cater to the market they would have opened up their OS a long time ago. Clearly they can not manage all the hardware option out in the world like MS can.
Steve Jobs is one of the biggest protection freaks in the world.
There is a point here.
One of the reasons for iPod popularity is in the fact that Microsoft didn't put much of an effort into media players before, thus making a lot of space for Apple, even within their own backyard.
If anyone else managed to grow strong with different platform - say, Commodore with Amiga - no one can say what would happen. Maybe Commodore would have successful line of their own media players, thus minimizing Apple's success?
As it is, I think it is safe to say Microsoft is responsible for iPod success, though more for not competing with Apple than for not preventing Apple from populating Microsoft's market.
The Zune looks very appealing to me, so I see no problem with Zune software for the Mac. Just to be fair, iTunes sucks on Windows.
No, they're not.
http://support.apple.com/kb/HT1640#faq1
Note: Recent iPod models that do not support FireWire charging, such as the iPod nano (4th generation), and the iPod touch (2nd generation), will not charge when used with the iPod Hi-Fi.
Your just one of those people that believe you are elite because you use an Apple product which is the single biggest downfall to Apple.
Not sure what is so funny the fact is if it wasn't for Windows users ipod sales would drop 90%. All you have to do is look at PC market share and anyone can come to the conclusion that without Windows users Apple product growth would be very limited.
I never said the ipod or iphone was a bad product, which is why Windows users use them. The Zune most likely never took off because it came to the market too late, after Apple had already been around a long time in that market. Its not rocket science. I know guys like you hold onto ipod sales for dear life because its the only thing Apple had lead in for 30 years.
I one of those elite..stop assuming mate, as Yuusharo so clearly stated and I agree, I am person who is loyal to the BEST product, not because it is Apple. I do like Apple has a company, but if the product stinks, I would not buy it.
Btw: Who said you said anything about iPod being a bad product. Take time to read replies, do not get emotional and start ranting, believing in your head that this is personal attack on you or MS. I do attack MS but not because it MS, but for some of the bad product decisions and lack of innovation in some areas.
If you read the forum ( look for reply #24) carefully, I actually told someone to review Zune HD, since if I had not invested so much time/money in iPhone, I would consider the product.
come lets not get carried away here, MS were the ones that were sued for their internet browser behavior, which affected numerous companies.
MS still has a great lead on Apple when it comes to killing competition, but I understand your point.
... And good old US of America used to exterminate their native inhabitants, yet today it is considered one of the most democratic countries on this planet.
Yes, MS was really nasty 10+ years ago, but 10 years in IT is distant history.
Today, Apple is much more extreme in dealing with competition and restricting their own users in every possible way than Microsoft is, and we are living in today.
As an iPhone user, I really like device - really like it - and software is greatly thought of and executed for mobile device, but I keep thinking iPhone could have been so much more without Apple's paranoid enforcements, just as it is. In fact, after just 3 weeks of having it, I'm already considering an option to jailbreak it.
... And good old US of America used to exterminate their native inhabitants, yet today it is considered one of the most democratic countries on this planet.
Yes, MS was really nasty 10+ years ago, but 10 years in IT is distant history.
Today, Apple is much more extreme in dealing with competition and restricting their own users in every possible way than Microsoft is, and we are living in today.
As an iPhone user, I really like device - really like it - and software is greatly thought of and executed for mobile device, but I keep thinking iPhone could have been so much more without Apple's paranoid enforcements, just as it is. In fact, after just 3 weeks of having it, I'm already considering an option to jailbreak it.
I think I did say I understand his point, so what was your point about my post??
Exactly. I don't like MS any more than the next person here. I feel they have poor business practices. However, when they do make good products (and yes, it DOES happen), then I praise those products. I also don't like Apple for their business practices (being very anti-competitive and closed) but when they have a good product, I'll praise it too. I like the hardware in the iPod Touch and think the device is wonderful. I however hate the OS and its limitations it puts on the hardware.
But yeah, if MS were to release the App, I'm sure people would do exactly as you said, install and delete without trying JUST to give MS a One Star... which has the effect of nothing against the company they hate so much.
BTW, after reading your other posts on the matter, I'm very glad someone have views like me around here.
I think you and yuusharo are my two never-known-about-separated-at-birth twin brothers
When you look up the word Bulls**t, it says "see Microsoft". PC users are full of BS. Can't handle the truth. Carry on using your bloated Windows (a copy of OS X), 8 billion viruses (uniquely Windows only), malware (windows only), crashes, file incompatibility, software incompatibility, even certain MS products aren't backward or forward compatible. The huge extra cost in staff wages to run networks, solve IT problems etc. iTunes is still nearly 90% of what it was when it was originally released. So not sure where you get bloatware from. It just works, unlike 90% of MS software. If Windows and Ms Office aren't bloatware, I don't know what is.
An ex PC User.
Yeah, it just works... until your new HDD starts beeping and clicking, your "superdrive" dies on you, your graphics card starts freezing, your display gets all corrupted and your shiny laptop gets cracks all over it.
Last time I was checking, list of incompatible OSX software was pretty substantial. Hardly any smaller than Vista incompatibilities.
iTunes is horrible bloatware, and it even doesn't do some simple basic tasks any half-decent media player should do - like monitoring media folder. If I could sync music on my iPhone with WMP, I'd switch in a split second. If I could sync iPhone apps with something else, iTunes would be immediately uninstalled and its sorrow remains purged with Crap Cleaner.
Yes, I loath it that much, unfortunately have to use it because Steve-o said so.
I think I did say I understand his point, so what was your point about my post??
Just killing some time before I go home
Just killing some time before I go home
ok fair enough
Yeah, it just works... until your new HDD starts beeping and clicking, your "superdrive" dies on you, your graphics card starts freezing, your display gets all corrupted and your shiny laptop gets cracks all over it.
Last time I was checking, list of incompatible OSX software was pretty substantial. Hardly any smaller than Vista incompatibilities.
iTunes is horrible bloatware, and it even doesn't do some simple basic tasks any half-decent media player should do - like monitoring media folder. If I could sync music on my iPhone with WMP, I'd switch in a split second. If I could sync iPhone apps with something else, iTunes would be immediately uninstalled and its sorrow remains purged with Crap Cleaner.
Yes, I loath it that much, unfortunately have to use it because Steve-o said so.
Good to hear personal experiences, but anyone can provide actually factual data of precenatge of people are not satisfied with iTunes, since I could not found it any place on internet.
which OSX are you refering to Panther, Tiger, Leopard or Snow Leopard ? Can you link, where your saw that list? (i.e., OSX (which one) vs Vista).
It just works is a joke. The last verison of itunes had several problems for people that had large libraries. Everytime Apple puts out a patch you have to pray to god you don't need a reinstall of the entire OS because OSX is not smart enough to backout updates. You download a bad patch from Apple your are stuck doing an Archive and Install. Its a joke.
What are you an ex pc user from 1970? I haven't had a virus in about 7 years. OSX can't even remotely network as well as Vista. Maybe your just not smart enough to know how to use a PC.
I like to have options like if I want to use a certain driver my entire computer is controlled by what Steve Jobs wants me to run. If I want to back something out I can without doing an entire reinstall of my OS. Apple puts in a patch and its bad which many times they are your pretty much screwed until they get around to figuring it out.
If you are running weekly backups via Time Machine or Carbon Copy, then archive and install is non-issue. Of course, maybe you're not smart enough to figure that out on OS X (Sorry, but after reading the "Maybe your just not smart enough to know how to use a PC", that had to be done). Like most everything else with computers, these "issues" are normally user related IMO.
Yeah, it just works... until your new HDD starts beeping and clicking, your "superdrive" dies on you, your graphics card starts freezing, your display gets all corrupted and your shiny laptop gets cracks all over it.
Last time I was checking, list of incompatible OSX software was pretty substantial. Hardly any smaller than Vista incompatibilities.
iTunes is horrible bloatware, and it even doesn't do some simple basic tasks any half-decent media player should do - like monitoring media folder. If I could sync music on my iPhone with WMP, I'd switch in a split second. If I could sync iPhone apps with something else, iTunes would be immediately uninstalled and its sorrow remains purged with Crap Cleaner.
Yes, I loath it that much, unfortunately have to use it because Steve-o said so.
I agree with "souliisoul". Provide some links next time or expect to be called out for "BS".
There is a point here.
One of the reasons for iPod popularity is in the fact that Microsoft didn't put much of an effort into media players before, thus making a lot of space for Apple, even within their own backyard.
If anyone else managed to grow strong with different platform - say, Commodore with Amiga - no one can say what would happen. Maybe Commodore would have successful line of their own media players, thus minimizing Apple's success?
As it is, I think it is safe to say Microsoft is responsible for iPod success, though more for not competing with Apple than for not preventing Apple from populating Microsoft's market.
So what is your defense for Microsoft losing market share in the mobile market, especially since the release of the iPhone? I see where you are coming from and company like Microsoft can't be counted out of anything, but your logic seems bit flawed.
My company doesn't use PCs, because they are crap, not even for accounts. And never will. And I thought this was a MAC forum, not a PC one. You obviously don't know what you are talking about, since neither MS or Apple were around in 1970. One big dumb-ass PC User.http://forums.appleinsider.com/images/smilies/lol.gif
Today, Apple is much more extreme in dealing with competition and restricting their own users in every possible way
You're saying that as if the average user is suffering. In fact the average user is actively, repeatedly, choosing this model. Apple's "walled garden" approach is golden, and it's paying off.
In what way has Microsoft tried to kill competition illegally? That's a pretty bold statement.
You haven't been paying attention then.
AARP code to made it appear that Windows 3.1 would not load under the superior DR-DOS of the time. When Windows tried to load, it detected if it was MS-DOS or not but looking at the location of code pages. If different from MS-DOS, it would terminate and provide a bullsh*t error message implying that it would not work with DR-DOS. That is the single biggest reason why MS started up the development of Windows95. Before then, MS made more money selling two products. First, they sold DOS, then got people to fork over for Windows 3.1. DR-DOS was faster than MS' product, more stable, and cheaper. More proof that the better product rarely survives an attack by a monopolist.
It's binding agreements with nearly every OEM which still are unchallenged. All the OEMs live in fear of Microsoft. Dell, for example, really can't sell machines without Windows and so Dell makes sure they keep Microsoft happy because Acer would love nothing better than to see Dell unable to ship Windows. Just using the two as an example. This is why you cannot buy a consumer-level machine from nearly every single major OEM *without* Windows on it. This is the basis for the "Microsoft tax".
Need more?
If you are running weekly backups via Time Machine or Carbon Copy, then archive and install is non-issue. Of course, maybe you're not smart enough to figure that out on OS X (Sorry, but after reading the "Maybe your just not smart enough to know how to use a PC", that had to be done). Like most everything else with computers, these "issues" are normally user related IMO.
Time Machine has not exactly been around or a long time compared to Windows restore. Yes this problem has been resolved with Time Machine but that didn't help the last ten years.
As far as how smart I am I think I have this Applle stuff down seeing I have been a systems programmer for IBM for 22 years now and durning that time have always had a Mac and PC on my desk.
You must be the only PC user, who knows how to use one. 99% of PC users don't, thats why call centers around the world are full of an army of staff, just to answer simple questions, like how to switch it off.
My company doesn't use PCs, because they are crap, not even for accounts. And never will. And I thought this was a MAC forum, not a PC one. You obviously don't know what you are talking about, since neither MS or Apple were around in 1970. One big dumb-ass PC User.http://forums.appleinsider.com/images/smilies/lol.gif
Apple was certainly around in the 1970's and Bill Gates and Steve Jobs worked together in the 1970's. Learn to read.
In fact let me give you this article that shows you the war was over a long time ago.
http://d5.allthingsd.com/20070530/d5...obs-interview/