Ignoring certain subscribers because it makes your argument for Verizon looks better is like choosing to ignore all wireless subs that don?t pay for unlimited data to make AT&T look better.
Actually it's the exact opposite.
You people have been talking about how iphone this and iphone that --- when a big chunk of AT&T's new subcriber additions have been from Tracfone subscribers for the last 2 years. You people are ignoring the importance of Tracfone to AT&T's numbers.
You people have been talking about how iphone this and iphone that --- when a big chunk of AT&T's new subcriber additions have been from Tracfone subscribers for the last 2 years. You people are ignoring the importance of Tracfone to AT&T's numbers.
Are you counting Altell, then? What was that, 14M?
In the end, the number of subs is pointless, too. They both enough subs to keep them going and neither is losing them in droves to risk a collapse, so the metrics worth looking at are financials (which Verizon will likely win due to AT&T?s excessive upgrade costs to meet the high bandwidth usage of the iPhone) and other things, like dropped calls, customer service, etc. For most of them Verizon will trump AT&T, but AT&T has the iPhone, which maintains its own call center for tech support and has stores with people experienced in the device. In returning to AT&T and having 3 iPhones I have not yet been to an AT&T store for those phones or dialed 611 to get AT&T?s assistance with my account. I?d wager that trumps Verizon and other phones on other carriers in many areas.
Are you counting Altell, then? What was that, 14M?
In the end, the number of subs is pointless, too. They both enough subs to keep them going and neither is losing them in droves to risk a collapse, so the metrics worth looking at are financials (which Verizon will likely win due to AT&T?s excessive upgrade costs to meet the high bandwidth usage of the iPhone) and other things, like dropped calls, customer service, etc. For most of them Verizon will trump AT&T, but AT&T has the iPhone, which maintains its own call center for tech support and has stores with people experienced in the device. In returning to AT&T and having 3 iPhones I have not yet been to an AT&T store for those phones or dialed 611 to get AT&T?s assistance with my account. I?d wager that trumps Verizon and other phones on other carriers in many areas.
That's what I have been saying all along, isn't it?
Verizon is doing financially fine, without the iphone. They earned the respect to not to have their decisions second-guessed by monday morning quarterbacking.
That's what I have been saying all along, isn't it?
Verizon is doing financially fine, without the iphone. They earned the respect to not to have their decisions second-guessed by monday morning quarterbacking.
Of course they are, so is AT&T, just not as well, but that doesn?t mean they don?t want the iPhone. Unfortunately, a stock can fall and market caps can shrink despite a company?s earnings if investors are fearful of a downward trend in growth. One reason I like Apple as an investment is the very controlled growth they tend to have. It?s pretty easy to gauge most of their products? growth YoY.
Of course they are, so is AT&T, just not as well, but that doesn?t mean they don?t want the iPhone. Unfortunately, a stock can fall and market caps can shrink despite a company?s earnings if investors are fearful of a downward trend in growth. One reason I like Apple as an investment is the very controlled growth they tend to have. It?s pretty easy to gauge most of their products? growth YoY.
But that controlled growth has nothing to do with Apple share price --- which goes up and down very wildly.
I don't agree that the number of subs is entirely pointless. Its just that VZW and ATT are so close the number of subs isn't as important.
I don't think you can disregard how important the Alltel acquisition was for VZW. ATT would have left them in the dust without it.
Even though Samab would argue VZW no matter how many subs VZW have they are doing better than anyone else and VZW needs no one else to be the best.
VZW never cared whether they are left in the dust on subscriber headcounts --- when they lost their number 1 carrier status with the Cingular/AT&T Wireless merger. VZW never went after market share with prepaid or MVNO's.
I don't think you can disregard how VZ passed their chance to buy Alltel the first time around in 2007.
Well in your reality where VZW is perfect, I'm sure you are right that they've done everything 100% right.
In the reality that the rest of us live in. The number of subs do matter because subs is how they make money. The number of subs determines market position and negotiating power. That is the reason Cingular merged with ATT, the reason VZW merged with Alltel.
ATT and VZW can more effectively market services such as friends/family and mobile to mobile with out competing for lower prices because they have such large number of subs. T-Mobile and Sprint have to compete on price because they have a smaller number of subs.
2007 was before ATT was adding 2 million iPhone activation per quarter and VZW had no phone to compete.
Quote:
Originally Posted by samab
VZW never cared whether they are left in the dust on subscriber headcounts --- when they lost their number 1 carrier status with the Cingular/AT&T Wireless merger. VZW never went after market share with prepaid or MVNO's.
I don't think you can disregard how VZ passed their chance to buy Alltel the first time around in 2007.
Well in your reality where VZW is perfect, I'm sure you are right that they've done everything 100% right.
In the reality that the rest of us live in. The number of subs do matter because subs is how they make money. The number of subs determines market position and negotiating power. That is the reason Cingular merged with ATT, the reason VZW merged with Alltel.
ATT and VZW can more effectively market services such as friends/family and mobile to mobile with out competing for lower prices because they have such large number of subs. T-Mobile and Sprint have to compete on price because they have a smaller number of subs.
2007 was before ATT was adding 2 million iPhone activation per quarter and VZW had no phone to compete.
I never claimed that VZ is perfect, but looking at its history, a normal person should give VZ the benefit of the doubt.
VZ made a big bet on 3G nationalwide deployment in the US (while the former AT&T Wireless had a 6 city rollout due to its agreement with DoCoMo) --- turned out that VZ was right. VZ made a big bet of FIOS while AT&T made a much cheaper bet on FTTN --- turned out that VZ was right. VZ made a big bet on $99 unlimited voice plan --- within hours AT&T had to copy it, within days every single carrier in the US had to copy it.
When VZ annouced that they are going nationalwide on LTE, I am going to give them the benefit of the doubt. When VZ announced that they reject the iphone, I am going to give them the benefit of the doubt.
VZW doesn't need Alltel to become the largest carrier in the US because VZW was already having the largest friends and family/mobile to mobile population in the US. AT&T MVNO subscribers don't get free calling to AT&T subscribers, and vice versa. So if you just count the retail subscribers --- VZW was 6-7 million subscribers larger than AT&T's retail subscribers before the Alltel merger.
I never claimed that VZ is perfect, but looking at its history, a normal person should give VZ the benefit of the doubt.
VZ made a big bet on 3G nationalwide deployment in the US (while the former AT&T Wireless had a 6 city rollout due to its agreement with DoCoMo) --- turned out that VZ was right. VZ made a big bet of FIOS while AT&T made a much cheaper bet on FTTN --- turned out that VZ was right. VZ made a big bet on $99 unlimited voice plan --- within hours AT&T had to copy it, within days every single carrier in the US had to copy it.
When VZ annouced that they are going nationalwide on LTE, I am going to give them the benefit of the doubt. When VZ announced that they reject the iphone, I am going to give them the benefit of the doubt.
VZW doesn't need Alltel to become the largest carrier in the US because VZW was already having the largest friends and family/mobile to mobile population in the US. AT&T MVNO subscribers don't get free calling to AT&T subscribers, and vice versa. So if you just count the retail subscribers --- VZW was 6-7 million subscribers larger than AT&T's retail subscribers before the Alltel merger.
That just about explains it all. You can't ever see them doing anything wrong. No matter what, you'll keep giving them the benefit of the doubt.
Most of the Apple supporters on this board have seen Apple take the wrong path and have said so.
That just about explains it all. You can't ever see them doing anything wrong. No matter what, you'll keep giving them the benefit of the doubt.
Most of the Apple supporters on this board have seen Apple take the wrong path and have said so.
I don't blindly give Verizon the benefit of the doubt.
There is no objective evidence right now to say that Verizon has done the wrong thing in rejecting the iphone. Verizon Wireless' retail net adds have held up against the iphone for the last 2 years. Verizon share price has held up better than AT&T share price in the same period.
ATT is acquiring Centennial Wireless which has 7.1 million subs.
Where are seeing that number? According to the Wikipedia citation in the link above, Centennial only has 1M subs. Note that Wikpedia page only lists 0.63M subs.
Quote:
The Company ended the quarter with 1,057,500 total wireless subscribers, which compares to 1,090,400 for the year-ago quarter and 1,078,200 for the previous quarter ended May 31, 2009.
Comments
Ignoring certain subscribers because it makes your argument for Verizon looks better is like choosing to ignore all wireless subs that don?t pay for unlimited data to make AT&T look better.
Actually it's the exact opposite.
You people have been talking about how iphone this and iphone that --- when a big chunk of AT&T's new subcriber additions have been from Tracfone subscribers for the last 2 years. You people are ignoring the importance of Tracfone to AT&T's numbers.
Actually it's the exact opposite.
You people have been talking about how iphone this and iphone that --- when a big chunk of AT&T's new subcriber additions have been from Tracfone subscribers for the last 2 years. You people are ignoring the importance of Tracfone to AT&T's numbers.
Are you counting Altell, then? What was that, 14M?
In the end, the number of subs is pointless, too. They both enough subs to keep them going and neither is losing them in droves to risk a collapse, so the metrics worth looking at are financials (which Verizon will likely win due to AT&T?s excessive upgrade costs to meet the high bandwidth usage of the iPhone) and other things, like dropped calls, customer service, etc. For most of them Verizon will trump AT&T, but AT&T has the iPhone, which maintains its own call center for tech support and has stores with people experienced in the device. In returning to AT&T and having 3 iPhones I have not yet been to an AT&T store for those phones or dialed 611 to get AT&T?s assistance with my account. I?d wager that trumps Verizon and other phones on other carriers in many areas.
Are you counting Altell, then? What was that, 14M?
In the end, the number of subs is pointless, too. They both enough subs to keep them going and neither is losing them in droves to risk a collapse, so the metrics worth looking at are financials (which Verizon will likely win due to AT&T?s excessive upgrade costs to meet the high bandwidth usage of the iPhone) and other things, like dropped calls, customer service, etc. For most of them Verizon will trump AT&T, but AT&T has the iPhone, which maintains its own call center for tech support and has stores with people experienced in the device. In returning to AT&T and having 3 iPhones I have not yet been to an AT&T store for those phones or dialed 611 to get AT&T?s assistance with my account. I?d wager that trumps Verizon and other phones on other carriers in many areas.
That's what I have been saying all along, isn't it?
Verizon is doing financially fine, without the iphone. They earned the respect to not to have their decisions second-guessed by monday morning quarterbacking.
That's what I have been saying all along, isn't it?
Verizon is doing financially fine, without the iphone. They earned the respect to not to have their decisions second-guessed by monday morning quarterbacking.
Of course they are, so is AT&T, just not as well, but that doesn?t mean they don?t want the iPhone. Unfortunately, a stock can fall and market caps can shrink despite a company?s earnings if investors are fearful of a downward trend in growth. One reason I like Apple as an investment is the very controlled growth they tend to have. It?s pretty easy to gauge most of their products? growth YoY.
Of course they are, so is AT&T, just not as well, but that doesn?t mean they don?t want the iPhone. Unfortunately, a stock can fall and market caps can shrink despite a company?s earnings if investors are fearful of a downward trend in growth. One reason I like Apple as an investment is the very controlled growth they tend to have. It?s pretty easy to gauge most of their products? growth YoY.
But that controlled growth has nothing to do with Apple share price --- which goes up and down very wildly.
I don't think you can disregard how important the Alltel acquisition was for VZW. ATT would have left them in the dust without it.
Even though Samab would argue VZW no matter how many subs VZW have they are doing better than anyone else and VZW needs no one else to be the best.
In the end, the number of subs is pointless, too.
I don't agree that the number of subs is entirely pointless. Its just that VZW and ATT are so close the number of subs isn't as important.
I don't think you can disregard how important the Alltel acquisition was for VZW. ATT would have left them in the dust without it.
Even though Samab would argue VZW no matter how many subs VZW have they are doing better than anyone else and VZW needs no one else to be the best.
VZW never cared whether they are left in the dust on subscriber headcounts --- when they lost their number 1 carrier status with the Cingular/AT&T Wireless merger. VZW never went after market share with prepaid or MVNO's.
I don't think you can disregard how VZ passed their chance to buy Alltel the first time around in 2007.
In the reality that the rest of us live in. The number of subs do matter because subs is how they make money. The number of subs determines market position and negotiating power. That is the reason Cingular merged with ATT, the reason VZW merged with Alltel.
ATT and VZW can more effectively market services such as friends/family and mobile to mobile with out competing for lower prices because they have such large number of subs. T-Mobile and Sprint have to compete on price because they have a smaller number of subs.
2007 was before ATT was adding 2 million iPhone activation per quarter and VZW had no phone to compete.
VZW never cared whether they are left in the dust on subscriber headcounts --- when they lost their number 1 carrier status with the Cingular/AT&T Wireless merger. VZW never went after market share with prepaid or MVNO's.
I don't think you can disregard how VZ passed their chance to buy Alltel the first time around in 2007.
Verizon is only 7.6M subs away from AT&T now.
Well in your reality where VZW is perfect, I'm sure you are right that they've done everything 100% right.
In the reality that the rest of us live in. The number of subs do matter because subs is how they make money. The number of subs determines market position and negotiating power. That is the reason Cingular merged with ATT, the reason VZW merged with Alltel.
ATT and VZW can more effectively market services such as friends/family and mobile to mobile with out competing for lower prices because they have such large number of subs. T-Mobile and Sprint have to compete on price because they have a smaller number of subs.
2007 was before ATT was adding 2 million iPhone activation per quarter and VZW had no phone to compete.
I never claimed that VZ is perfect, but looking at its history, a normal person should give VZ the benefit of the doubt.
VZ made a big bet on 3G nationalwide deployment in the US (while the former AT&T Wireless had a 6 city rollout due to its agreement with DoCoMo) --- turned out that VZ was right. VZ made a big bet of FIOS while AT&T made a much cheaper bet on FTTN --- turned out that VZ was right. VZ made a big bet on $99 unlimited voice plan --- within hours AT&T had to copy it, within days every single carrier in the US had to copy it.
When VZ annouced that they are going nationalwide on LTE, I am going to give them the benefit of the doubt. When VZ announced that they reject the iphone, I am going to give them the benefit of the doubt.
VZW doesn't need Alltel to become the largest carrier in the US because VZW was already having the largest friends and family/mobile to mobile population in the US. AT&T MVNO subscribers don't get free calling to AT&T subscribers, and vice versa. So if you just count the retail subscribers --- VZW was 6-7 million subscribers larger than AT&T's retail subscribers before the Alltel merger.
I never claimed that VZ is perfect, but looking at its history, a normal person should give VZ the benefit of the doubt.
VZ made a big bet on 3G nationalwide deployment in the US (while the former AT&T Wireless had a 6 city rollout due to its agreement with DoCoMo) --- turned out that VZ was right. VZ made a big bet of FIOS while AT&T made a much cheaper bet on FTTN --- turned out that VZ was right. VZ made a big bet on $99 unlimited voice plan --- within hours AT&T had to copy it, within days every single carrier in the US had to copy it.
When VZ annouced that they are going nationalwide on LTE, I am going to give them the benefit of the doubt. When VZ announced that they reject the iphone, I am going to give them the benefit of the doubt.
VZW doesn't need Alltel to become the largest carrier in the US because VZW was already having the largest friends and family/mobile to mobile population in the US. AT&T MVNO subscribers don't get free calling to AT&T subscribers, and vice versa. So if you just count the retail subscribers --- VZW was 6-7 million subscribers larger than AT&T's retail subscribers before the Alltel merger.
That just about explains it all. You can't ever see them doing anything wrong. No matter what, you'll keep giving them the benefit of the doubt.
Most of the Apple supporters on this board have seen Apple take the wrong path and have said so.
That just about explains it all. You can't ever see them doing anything wrong. No matter what, you'll keep giving them the benefit of the doubt.
Most of the Apple supporters on this board have seen Apple take the wrong path and have said so.
I don't blindly give Verizon the benefit of the doubt.
There is no objective evidence right now to say that Verizon has done the wrong thing in rejecting the iphone. Verizon Wireless' retail net adds have held up against the iphone for the last 2 years. Verizon share price has held up better than AT&T share price in the same period.
ATT is acquiring Centennial Wireless which has 7.1 million subs.
Where are seeing that number? According to the Wikipedia citation in the link above, Centennial only has 1M subs. Note that Wikpedia page only lists 0.63M subs.
The Company ended the quarter with 1,057,500 total wireless subscribers, which compares to 1,090,400 for the year-ago quarter and 1,078,200 for the previous quarter ended May 31, 2009.