Apple should just allow the Pre to sync with iTunes. This is just snotty of them. It is something I would expect of Microsoft, but not Apple.
You should allow us all to live in your iTunes house. It's just snotty of you that only your family and friends are allowed in but everybody else is kept out by lock and key.
It's not fair that none of us can come and go as they please, eat your food and watch your TV even though you're generous enough to provide food and TV when we ask for it.
We've not paid the bills for keeping your place in order but if you keep changing the locks then we'll keep making new keys until you allow us to come and go as we please.
The sad part is, is that this is all obvious, common sense. Yet we have to use elaborate analogies to illustrate it.
lol you call that elaborate? Seemed pretty simple and straight forward to me
Palm can bitch all they want, but they are in the wrong here. This discussion always comes up, and in the end, the most logical response is: DUH, PALM!
OF COURSE Apple is gonna block Palm. With my limited business logic, I would have figured Apple could sell more mp3s to people by not doing so, but Apple seems to be doing pretty good (business logic wise lol) so it's safe to say they have weighed the impact, and are taking the better route.
I wonder how long this will go on for before one of the two are unable to programmatically achieve their goal.
At this point it's safe to say that Palm appears to be the one fighting the neverending uphill battle.
checking out some of the palm forums, it appears that palm has bigger problems on the pre than itunes syncing. when your customers are having issues like running out of space when installing apps, is it wise to spend time on delivering hacks for itunes?
checking out some of the palm forums, it appears that palm has bigger problems on the pre than itunes syncing. when your customers are having issues like running out of space when installing apps, is it wise to spend time on delivering hacks for itunes?
The hack is very minor compared to building an app to connect to iTunes. Though they could lease access through one of the other apps already available (the names escape me right now). I think Palm likes the free marketing associated with it, and while many will technically inclined people will understand why Palm is in the wrong, there is little recourse for the USB-IF that Palm can?t eventually apologize for and the supporters of Sprint or Palm, or the anti-Apple or anti-iPhone groups will see this as Apple being the bad guy. In the short term this is a good move for Palm. In the long term, not so much, but they have time to fix that.
This kind of behavior gives me less and less respect for Apple. Apple wants to be able to run their hardware on Windows and wants Windows to 'play nicely' with their software, but when the tables are turned and Palm wants to merely sync with iTunes, Apple cries like a child, takes its ball and goes home.
I should have read all the comments before I posted a reply, but it is amazing to read how many people think the issue is with Apple and not Palm.
This kind of behavior gives me less and less respect for Apple. Apple wants to be able to run their hardware on Windows and wants Windows to 'play nicely' with their software, but when the tables are turned and Palm wants to merely sync with iTunes, Apple cries like a child, takes its ball and goes home.
In other words:
This kind of behavior gives me less and less respect for Apple.
Apple wants its iPod child to live happily in the Windows apartment rented from the Microsoft landlord.
Apple wants the plumbing in its Windows apartment to play nice with its iTunes washing machine, but when the tables are turned and Palm merely wants to use the iTunes washing machine, Apple cries like a child, takes its ball and goes home.
i.e. Apple and Palm each have their own apartments in the same Windows block with the same plumbing, why does Palm have to buy, install and maintain their own machine when Apple has the nice iTunes machine in its apartment?
All Palm wants to do is wash its clothes in Apple's machine; Palm gets clean clothes without paying for the soap, utilities or maintenance.
Palm doesn't care its Apple neighbor keeps changing the locks after each trespass; Palm's only too happy getting free laundry at Apple's expense!
I'm happy and grateful that my analogy has helped understanding.
This kind of behavior gives me less and less respect for Apple.
Apple wants its iPod child to live happily in the Windows apartment rented from the Microsoft landlord.
Apple wants the plumbing in its Windows apartment to play nice with its iTunes washing machine, but when the tables are turned and Palm merely wants to use the iTunes washing machine, Apple cries like a child, takes its ball and goes home.
i.e. Apple and Palm each have their own apartments in the same Windows block with the same plumbing, why does Palm have to buy, install and maintain their own machine when Apple has the nice iTunes machine in its apartment?
All Palm wants to do is wash its clothes in Apple's machine; Palm gets clean clothes without paying for the soap, utilities or maintenance.
Palm doesn't care its Apple neighbor keeps changing the locks after each trespass; Palm's only too happy getting free laundry at Apple's expense!
I'm happy and grateful that my analogy has helped understanding.
Your analogy is a complete work of fiction.
Apple only uses the published Windows API in their Windows applications, their applications don't pretend to be some something else and their hardware doesn't pretend to be anything they are not. Apple doesn't do anything different than Adobe or Intuit or Roxio or Quark or Autodesk or anyone else does on the Windows platform.
(Off on a tangent, do you really think Microsoft would allow Apple to use a non-standard, non-published interface?)
Palm pretends their Pre is an Apple iPod. Despite the fact there is a published interface for communicating with a users iTunes collection (Mac or Windows), which companies like RIM (Blackberry) use successfully with their own cell phone sync apps. Palm could do the same with a little bit of effort, but Jon Rubinstein is too lazy to do his own coding; he'd rather take advantage of someone else's work.
Here's a better analogy.
Apple built an apartment building. The nicer iPod/iPhone apartments have their own washing machines. The cheaper Pre apartments have to use a shared coin laundromat in the basement. A tad less convenient, but the clothes get just as clean. Palm picked the locks of the iPod/iPhone apartment without the owners consent and issued duplicate keys to the people in the cheaper Pre apartments, instead of using the laundromat.
Seriously, if you found someone in your apartment using your stuff, wouldn't you change the locks at the minimum?
Not that it matters, the non-iPhone smartphone momentum is clearly going to the Droid, not the Pre. I predict that Jon Rubinstein will be looking for a new apartment complex in no time.
Since Palm has clearly violated USB-IF rules and USB-IF has sided with Apple, then why aren't they being reprimanded?
the USB-IF is not a legal authority so there's not a lot they can do beyond the "cut it out Palm" that they already did.
I believe they do have the licensing rights to USB so it might be possible for them to refuse to license any further versions to Palm but that's about it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob55
Maybe Palm is like the kid who tries to cheat off of you during the final exam. They didn't study or do their homework and now they just wanna cheat off of you.
Palm 'borrowing' itunes without permission is like the identical twins next door switching places during finals so that the one that is great at math takes both of their math tests so they both get As.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob55
If Apple did let the Pre sync with iTunes then they'd have to let everyone else as well. That would erode iPod and iPhone sales and create a support nightmare for Apple. Right or wrong, I think it's better for Apple to stand their ground.
it's not even that. it's a matter of support. if they open up itunes syncing functions to all hardware then they have to make sure that it works with everything. that's a lot of testing and such. same as if they let folks put Mac OS X on any old hardware or sold the iphone OS to other phone makers. that issue alone makes an open system a huge bag of hurt that is worse than blu-ray. thus while Apple has the legal ground to get away with it, they keep the clubhouse door closed. they did however put all the info in an open file format so anyone can make their own interface. and most have
This kind of behavior gives me less and less respect for Apple. Apple wants to be able to run their hardware on Windows and wants Windows to 'play nicely' with their software, but when the tables are turned and Palm wants to merely sync with iTunes, Apple cries like a child, takes its ball and goes home.
This kind of behavior gives me less and less respect for Apple. Apple wants to be able to run their hardware on Windows and wants Windows to 'play nicely' with their software, but when the tables are turned and Palm wants to merely sync with iTunes, Apple cries like a child, takes its ball and goes home.
You aren't paying attention.
Apple does "play nice" on Windows. Standard APIs, documented interfaces, the works.
Palm could also "play nice" and sync via the standard interfaces to the user's iTunes library but they choose to hack iTunes instead and pretend the Pre is an iPod. It's Jon Rubinstein's huge ego at work, he could do what RIM did with their Blackberry sync software, but that would mean admitting he's not the uber-iPod-guru that he thinks he is.
Comments
Apple should just allow the Pre to sync with iTunes. This is just snotty of them. It is something I would expect of Microsoft, but not Apple.
You should allow us all to live in your iTunes house. It's just snotty of you that only your family and friends are allowed in but everybody else is kept out by lock and key.
It's not fair that none of us can come and go as they please, eat your food and watch your TV even though you're generous enough to provide food and TV when we ask for it.
We've not paid the bills for keeping your place in order but if you keep changing the locks then we'll keep making new keys until you allow us to come and go as we please.
The sad part is, is that this is all obvious, common sense. Yet we have to use elaborate analogies to illustrate it.
lol you call that elaborate? Seemed pretty simple and straight forward to me
Palm can bitch all they want, but they are in the wrong here. This discussion always comes up, and in the end, the most logical response is: DUH, PALM!
OF COURSE Apple is gonna block Palm. With my limited business logic, I would have figured Apple could sell more mp3s to people by not doing so, but Apple seems to be doing pretty good (business logic wise lol) so it's safe to say they have weighed the impact, and are taking the better route.
I wonder how long this will go on for before one of the two are unable to programmatically achieve their goal.
I wonder how long this will go on for before one of the two are unable to programmatically achieve their goal.
At this point it's safe to say that Palm appears to be the one fighting the neverending uphill battle.
At this point it's safe to say that Palm appears to be the one fighting the neverending uphill battle.
checking out some of the palm forums, it appears that palm has bigger problems on the pre than itunes syncing. when your customers are having issues like running out of space when installing apps, is it wise to spend time on delivering hacks for itunes?
checking out some of the palm forums, it appears that palm has bigger problems on the pre than itunes syncing. when your customers are having issues like running out of space when installing apps, is it wise to spend time on delivering hacks for itunes?
The hack is very minor compared to building an app to connect to iTunes. Though they could lease access through one of the other apps already available (the names escape me right now). I think Palm likes the free marketing associated with it, and while many will technically inclined people will understand why Palm is in the wrong, there is little recourse for the USB-IF that Palm can?t eventually apologize for and the supporters of Sprint or Palm, or the anti-Apple or anti-iPhone groups will see this as Apple being the bad guy. In the short term this is a good move for Palm. In the long term, not so much, but they have time to fix that.
This kind of behavior gives me less and less respect for Apple. Apple wants to be able to run their hardware on Windows and wants Windows to 'play nicely' with their software, but when the tables are turned and Palm wants to merely sync with iTunes, Apple cries like a child, takes its ball and goes home.
I should have read all the comments before I posted a reply, but it is amazing to read how many people think the issue is with Apple and not Palm.
This kind of behavior gives me less and less respect for Apple. Apple wants to be able to run their hardware on Windows and wants Windows to 'play nicely' with their software, but when the tables are turned and Palm wants to merely sync with iTunes, Apple cries like a child, takes its ball and goes home.
In other words:
This kind of behavior gives me less and less respect for Apple.
Apple wants its iPod child to live happily in the Windows apartment rented from the Microsoft landlord.
Apple wants the plumbing in its Windows apartment to play nice with its iTunes washing machine, but when the tables are turned and Palm merely wants to use the iTunes washing machine, Apple cries like a child, takes its ball and goes home.
i.e. Apple and Palm each have their own apartments in the same Windows block with the same plumbing, why does Palm have to buy, install and maintain their own machine when Apple has the nice iTunes machine in its apartment?
All Palm wants to do is wash its clothes in Apple's machine; Palm gets clean clothes without paying for the soap, utilities or maintenance.
Palm doesn't care its Apple neighbor keeps changing the locks after each trespass; Palm's only too happy getting free laundry at Apple's expense!
I'm happy and grateful that my analogy has helped understanding.
In other words:
This kind of behavior gives me less and less respect for Apple.
Apple wants its iPod child to live happily in the Windows apartment rented from the Microsoft landlord.
Apple wants the plumbing in its Windows apartment to play nice with its iTunes washing machine, but when the tables are turned and Palm merely wants to use the iTunes washing machine, Apple cries like a child, takes its ball and goes home.
i.e. Apple and Palm each have their own apartments in the same Windows block with the same plumbing, why does Palm have to buy, install and maintain their own machine when Apple has the nice iTunes machine in its apartment?
All Palm wants to do is wash its clothes in Apple's machine; Palm gets clean clothes without paying for the soap, utilities or maintenance.
Palm doesn't care its Apple neighbor keeps changing the locks after each trespass; Palm's only too happy getting free laundry at Apple's expense!
I'm happy and grateful that my analogy has helped understanding.
Your analogy is a complete work of fiction.
Apple only uses the published Windows API in their Windows applications, their applications don't pretend to be some something else and their hardware doesn't pretend to be anything they are not. Apple doesn't do anything different than Adobe or Intuit or Roxio or Quark or Autodesk or anyone else does on the Windows platform.
(Off on a tangent, do you really think Microsoft would allow Apple to use a non-standard, non-published interface?)
Palm pretends their Pre is an Apple iPod. Despite the fact there is a published interface for communicating with a users iTunes collection (Mac or Windows), which companies like RIM (Blackberry) use successfully with their own cell phone sync apps. Palm could do the same with a little bit of effort, but Jon Rubinstein is too lazy to do his own coding; he'd rather take advantage of someone else's work.
Here's a better analogy.
Apple built an apartment building. The nicer iPod/iPhone apartments have their own washing machines. The cheaper Pre apartments have to use a shared coin laundromat in the basement. A tad less convenient, but the clothes get just as clean. Palm picked the locks of the iPod/iPhone apartment without the owners consent and issued duplicate keys to the people in the cheaper Pre apartments, instead of using the laundromat.
Seriously, if you found someone in your apartment using your stuff, wouldn't you change the locks at the minimum?
Not that it matters, the non-iPhone smartphone momentum is clearly going to the Droid, not the Pre. I predict that Jon Rubinstein will be looking for a new apartment complex in no time.
Since Palm has clearly violated USB-IF rules and USB-IF has sided with Apple, then why aren't they being reprimanded?
the USB-IF is not a legal authority so there's not a lot they can do beyond the "cut it out Palm" that they already did.
I believe they do have the licensing rights to USB so it might be possible for them to refuse to license any further versions to Palm but that's about it.
Maybe Palm is like the kid who tries to cheat off of you during the final exam.
Palm 'borrowing' itunes without permission is like the identical twins next door switching places during finals so that the one that is great at math takes both of their math tests so they both get As.
If Apple did let the Pre sync with iTunes then they'd have to let everyone else as well. That would erode iPod and iPhone sales and create a support nightmare for Apple. Right or wrong, I think it's better for Apple to stand their ground.
it's not even that. it's a matter of support. if they open up itunes syncing functions to all hardware then they have to make sure that it works with everything. that's a lot of testing and such. same as if they let folks put Mac OS X on any old hardware or sold the iphone OS to other phone makers. that issue alone makes an open system a huge bag of hurt that is worse than blu-ray. thus while Apple has the legal ground to get away with it, they keep the clubhouse door closed. they did however put all the info in an open file format so anyone can make their own interface. and most have
This kind of behavior gives me less and less respect for Apple. Apple wants to be able to run their hardware on Windows and wants Windows to 'play nicely' with their software, but when the tables are turned and Palm wants to merely sync with iTunes, Apple cries like a child, takes its ball and goes home.
You aren't paying attention.
Apple does "play nice" on Windows. Standard APIs, documented interfaces, the works.
Palm could also "play nice" and sync via the standard interfaces to the user's iTunes library but they choose to hack iTunes instead and pretend the Pre is an iPod. It's Jon Rubinstein's huge ego at work, he could do what RIM did with their Blackberry sync software, but that would mean admitting he's not the uber-iPod-guru that he thinks he is.
Next time, try to keep up...