Why all the hostility here guys? The article had interesting points to make, so let's discuss them like adults.
People in these sorts of threads base their entire self-worth on market and community validation of their purchases and investments. Assumptions are challenged. Hostilities ensue.
I thought the article was OK, even if the outcome was obvious from the title plus the URL. (Arbitrary graphs at the end notwithstanding; many often open systems are embedded systems, for example. Even more insane is the assumption that present hardware marketshare implies overall "business model success", especially given the use, highlighted earlier, of platforms as delivery systems.)
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism
The Droid can?t even play videos out of the box. You have to get a 3rd-party app from the Android Marketplace. None are very good at this point.
The built in gallery app on the moto droid played every video I saw being tried. It is odd that this functionality is not built into the music player instead.
The built in gallery app on the moto droid played every video I saw being tried. It is odd that this functionality is not built into the music player instead.
I naturally expect the media player to handle music and video and I don?t care about cameras on phones so i didn?t check the photo library. Were those videos it took with the camera or videos that were loaded into it from a PC?
This is a very important analysis of the difference between Apple's whole design philosophy and its 'non-integrated' competitors like Google, Microsoft and the whole host of 'me-too' hardware and software manufacturers in the IT industry. Lots of IT-people (or geeks) condemn Apple products because they can't fiddle around with the hardware or software. If they have the time and knowledge to fiddle in this way then they shouldn't buy Apple products, and they shouldn't complain when Apple keeps breaking their jailbreaks and hacks.
The vast majority of people in this world do not work directly in the IT industry. And they just want a device that is designed to work in a reliable and consistent way, is of good quality, is aesthetically pleasing to look at and to use, and helps them get their real work done. Those people are actually willing to pay extra for a device that helps them rather than one that hinders or annoys or stresses them, or wastes their valuable time with inconsistencies in user interfaces. Apple's integrated design philosophy is the reason why Apple products are so popular with non-IT people. So why are IT-people so consistently wrong about Apple? Is it self-interest to protect their careers based on the support of poorly designed IT products?
Good integrated product design is the reason Apple is such a respected company, and why Apple will continue to gain market share from its competitors. Unfortunately the corporate whizz-kids in Microsoft and elsewhere have yet to learn this simple lesson. Perhaps it is too late for them to change course. Perhaps they will just continue to slide into the valley of corporate death! Or perhaps it is time for Microsoft to buy a hardware manufacturer such as Dell or HP, or Google to buy someone like Nokia or Motorola?
Let's go easy on the animosity guys and discuss issues, I myself have been covered here, but anyone who disagrees had better do so with arguments before resorting to calling others bullshitters.
Unlike the iPhone, Android presents no significant limitations on which apps Google will list in Android's software market, but there's also no requirement for software signing or other security restrictions in place to prevent users from being spied upon or attacked by malicious apps or hassled by adware, nor any app quality guidelines.
and yet Storm8's apps are still in the app store and Storm8 is still spying on the users
and yet Storm8's apps are still in the app store and Storm8 is still spying on the users
You are unwittingly validating the article's point however. If a security issue can occur in such a tightly safeguarded system as the iphone with 1 out of 100,000 apps being the culprit one can imagine the havoc of the android platform in the future.
I laughed when I read that but it?s more common that not. What is sad is how natural and simple the iPhone really is. No 50 page booklet explaining how to use the features.
The Droid can?t even play videos out of the box. You have to get a 3rd-party app from the Android Marketplace. None are very good at this point.
And, interestingly, this is precisely where a kind of hubris among tech enthusiasts-- both consumers and manufacturers--gets them into trouble.
It's a long standing PC world slur on Macs-- that being "easy to use" just means "is for idiots." That not having to dick around with a lot of system maintenance equals "hand holding." That elegance at the level of UI and interactions proves that Apple products are "toys".
The Droid marketing is clearly going all in on the idea that the Droid is an industrial bad-ass to the iPhone's pussified gentility. Moreover, Android itself has that "pretty and easy is for faggots" vibe beloved by gear heads who rarely see the light of day.
I honestly think that's a fundamental error on Google, Verizon and Motorola's part; you don't get big market share by limiting yourself to young men-- and make no mistake, that's what they're shooting for.
Apple changed the market by making a smart phone aimed squarely at "normal people." I don't think the way to steal market share from them is to act like normal people are stupid or insipid, all the while making it clear that to the extent the phone you're selling doesn't do some things easily or well, it's because "easy and well" are contemptible. I think it's just a really short sighted strategy.
This is the first topic I felt the need to ever respond to and not a response to anyone else's post so far (just the main article).
I won't pretend to be a long time Apple fan. I am a "pc" guy who loves my iphone and previous ipods, but when my AT&T contract runs out I am considering jumping ship to a Droid or whatever the best fit that is out at that time.... why???
- I am all about the $$$, it drives my choices
--- Same reason I am a PC guy, I would rather install a MAC OS VM on my ESX box then pay $1k+for a slower piece of hardware (compared to a $1k self built PC or insert Vendor)
- I don't wish to be controlled
--- If I "hack" a OS or install a 3rd party app I can agree to expect NO support from the OS vendor, but that doesn't mean I void my HW warranty
- I like instant innovation and implementation
--- Apple does a great job of bringing the masses what they want (even if they masses didn't know they needed it), but now I know it and give me the rest NOW
So because of ideas like this I see my next phone....
- Saving me Money (don't waste mine)
--- A phone with a webcam that has the physical capability to perform video recording but doesn't make me buy new hardware to receive the feature (3G vs 3Gs); provide it now
--- A mic that can perform voice phone calls and with a software upgrade also perform a desktop search feature, nope have to pay for that (3G vs 3Gs)
--- What Android can do to help - Install Google Voice App and use it on the carries cellular lines, save my minutes (thanks for the money) - Want turn by turn directions install Google Maps Navigation app, how much is that? Free / Apple $50+ (thanks for the money back)
-Control
--- I want tethering, I can enable it with simple xml hack, but there goes my SW/HW support.
--- What Android can do to help - Install Android Proxy App, can I still get HW support? of course (also thanks for the money savings)
-innovation (the uncontrolled Android OS versus the iphone SW/HW tested OS)
--- I absolutely agree with the authors point that the OS will be untested with the 1000's of homemade apps (and spyware, and virus, and FEAR FEAR FEAR) that can be installed on this uncontrolled "open" OS
--- What Android can do to help - You can bet that Google tests their Apps on their OS to work well, scared of the unknown?, install only Google Apps, oh and don't wait for the next model to receive a software feature that could be enabled on your current hardware
Of course then again my contract runs out around WWDC 2010, hmmm hard choices
I agree with what you're saying, but how do we do that? It's not our business to do so, and errors are present in every technical article I read, no matter where I read it.
The articles aren't full of errors, though there are some. We usually talk about them too.
It is the publishers duty to print the truth. Factual information should be referenced.
Opposing views should be supported with references. Otherwise they should be deleted or if proven incorrect, retracted.
Articles in question should be sent back to the author for comment and/or corrected accordingly. Authors who refuse to do so, should have their articles or contentious materials noted and/or deleted.
It doesn't do us readers any good if the editorial staff publishes everything that is submitted knowing that they are inaccurate to start with. We wouldn't do it in the peer reviewed scientific community, why do we have to accept it here?
Yet when I tried to say that all phones compete against each other I was rubbished.
Since it's unlikely that a consumer will have more than one phone any sale of another phone, smartphone or otherwise, is not a sale for Apple. What comment(s) of yours are you referring to?
Since it's unlikely that a consumer will have more than one phone any sale of another phone, smartphone or otherwise, is not a sale for Apple. What comment(s) of yours are you referring to?
It was a while ago, I tried to do a search but it doesn't go back far enough
It was a while ago, I tried to do a search but it doesn't go back far enough
If I'm recalling correctly (and forgive me if I'm not), you wanted to lump in dumb phones as being competitors to the iPhone-- so that, for instance, Nokia's overwhelming share of dumb phones was a telling competitive advantage over the Apple.
Which I don't think is what is being discussed here.
This is the first topic I felt the need to ever respond to and not a response to anyone else's post so far (just the main article).
I won't pretend to be a long time Apple fan. I am a "pc" guy who loves my iphone and previous ipods, but when my AT&T contract runs out I am considering jumping ship to a Droid or whatever the best fit that is out at that time.... why???
- I am all about the $$$, it drives my choices
--- Same reason I am a PC guy, I would rather install a MAC OS VM on my ESX box then pay $1k+for a slower piece of hardware (compared to a $1k self built PC or insert Vendor)
- I don't wish to be controlled
--- If I "hack" a OS or install a 3rd party app I can agree to expect NO support from the OS vendor, but that doesn't mean I void my HW warranty
- I like instant innovation and implementation
--- Apple does a great job of bringing the masses what they want (even if they masses didn't know they needed it), but now I know it and give me the rest NOW
So because of ideas like this I see my next phone....
- Saving me Money (don't waste mine)
--- A phone with a webcam that has the physical capability to perform video recording but doesn't make me buy new hardware to receive the feature (3G vs 3Gs); provide it now
--- A mic that can perform voice phone calls and with a software upgrade also perform a desktop search feature, nope have to pay for that (3G vs 3Gs)
--- What Android can do to help - Install Google Voice App and use it on the carries cellular lines, save my minutes (thanks for the money) - Want turn by turn directions install Google Maps Navigation app, how much is that? Free / Apple $50+ (thanks for the money back)
-Control
--- I want tethering, I can enable it with simple xml hack, but there goes my SW/HW support.
--- What Android can do to help - Install Android Proxy App, can I still get HW support? of course (also thanks for the money savings)
-innovation (the uncontrolled Android OS versus the iphone SW/HW tested OS)
--- I absolutely agree with the authors point that the OS will be untested with the 1000's of homemade apps (and spyware, and virus, and FEAR FEAR FEAR) that can be installed on this uncontrolled "open" OS
--- What Android can do to help - You can bet that Google tests their Apps on their OS to work well, scared of the unknown?, install only Google Apps, oh and don't wait for the next model to receive a software feature that could be enabled on your current hardware
Of course then again my contract runs out around WWDC 2010, hmmm hard choices
I'm having a hard time understanding how your solution to "Apple makes me buy a new phone to get new hardware features" is "so I'll change carriers and buy a new phone."
As far as "don't wait for the next model to receive a software feature that could be enabled on your current hardware" goes, Apple has enabled all kinds of new functionality with software updates on the original iPhone, and you have no idea what features Verizon/Motorola will or will not enable somewhere down the road on the current model Droid, or how many future iterations of Android will run on that hardware.
And if your contract runs till WWDC 2010, it's likely that a version of Google's nav app will be available for the iPhone.
Of course, you should get whatever phone you like, I just wonder at these kind of lists that seem to go so far out of their way to justify what appears to be a forgone conclusion.
If I'm recalling correctly (and forgive me if I'm not), you wanted to lump in dumb phones as being competitors to the iPhone-- so that, for instance, Nokia's overwhelming share of dumb phones was a telling competitive advantage over the Apple.
Yes that was it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox
Which I don't think is what is being discussed here.
It still does matter, because...
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross
It matters because Every phone sale impacts on every other phone sale.
How do you plan to accommodate the differing hardware and OS features of Android?
As the OS becomes more differentiated, with different GUI's, different hardware, and little compatibility between them, what will you do?
Believe it or not, but right now it is just ONE hardware setup for Android (despite they look very different, it is the same device from the developers perspective), while iPhone has three different ones (original + GPS + compass) so you have to face this on iPhone, too. Plus nobody knows about the plans of Apple, so if they ever introduce iPhone Nano or Tablet, you'll be in the same situation but without any previous knowledge. At least you get the info about the future direction on Android.
The Android platform doesn't compete with iPhone. In the long run, they are cool with high iPhone penetration. They are happy Android phones replace old low level ones and WinMo. All they care is that device has decent browser so users will actually use it (iPhone is great there, so is Android). They sell web ads. More browsers = more places to sell. It is simple as that.
Comments
Why all the hostility here guys? The article had interesting points to make, so let's discuss them like adults.
People in these sorts of threads base their entire self-worth on market and community validation of their purchases and investments. Assumptions are challenged. Hostilities ensue.
I thought the article was OK, even if the outcome was obvious from the title plus the URL. (Arbitrary graphs at the end notwithstanding; many often open systems are embedded systems, for example. Even more insane is the assumption that present hardware marketshare implies overall "business model success", especially given the use, highlighted earlier, of platforms as delivery systems.)
The Droid can?t even play videos out of the box. You have to get a 3rd-party app from the Android Marketplace. None are very good at this point.
The built in gallery app on the moto droid played every video I saw being tried. It is odd that this functionality is not built into the music player instead.
The built in gallery app on the moto droid played every video I saw being tried. It is odd that this functionality is not built into the music player instead.
I naturally expect the media player to handle music and video and I don?t care about cameras on phones so i didn?t check the photo library. Were those videos it took with the camera or videos that were loaded into it from a PC?
The vast majority of people in this world do not work directly in the IT industry. And they just want a device that is designed to work in a reliable and consistent way, is of good quality, is aesthetically pleasing to look at and to use, and helps them get their real work done. Those people are actually willing to pay extra for a device that helps them rather than one that hinders or annoys or stresses them, or wastes their valuable time with inconsistencies in user interfaces. Apple's integrated design philosophy is the reason why Apple products are so popular with non-IT people. So why are IT-people so consistently wrong about Apple? Is it self-interest to protect their careers based on the support of poorly designed IT products?
Good integrated product design is the reason Apple is such a respected company, and why Apple will continue to gain market share from its competitors. Unfortunately the corporate whizz-kids in Microsoft and elsewhere have yet to learn this simple lesson. Perhaps it is too late for them to change course. Perhaps they will just continue to slide into the valley of corporate death! Or perhaps it is time for Microsoft to buy a hardware manufacturer such as Dell or HP, or Google to buy someone like Nokia or Motorola?
Let's go easy on the animosity guys and discuss issues, I myself have been covered here, but anyone who disagrees had better do so with arguments before resorting to calling others bullshitters.
Unlike the iPhone, Android presents no significant limitations on which apps Google will list in Android's software market, but there's also no requirement for software signing or other security restrictions in place to prevent users from being spied upon or attacked by malicious apps or hassled by adware, nor any app quality guidelines.
and yet Storm8's apps are still in the app store and Storm8 is still spying on the users
and yet Storm8's apps are still in the app store and Storm8 is still spying on the users
You are unwittingly validating the article's point however. If a security issue can occur in such a tightly safeguarded system as the iphone with 1 out of 100,000 apps being the culprit one can imagine the havoc of the android platform in the future.
Can I have a go, please?
And I use the scientific definition of a bullshitter.
I laughed when I read that but it?s more common that not. What is sad is how natural and simple the iPhone really is. No 50 page booklet explaining how to use the features.
The Droid can?t even play videos out of the box. You have to get a 3rd-party app from the Android Marketplace. None are very good at this point.
And, interestingly, this is precisely where a kind of hubris among tech enthusiasts-- both consumers and manufacturers--gets them into trouble.
It's a long standing PC world slur on Macs-- that being "easy to use" just means "is for idiots." That not having to dick around with a lot of system maintenance equals "hand holding." That elegance at the level of UI and interactions proves that Apple products are "toys".
The Droid marketing is clearly going all in on the idea that the Droid is an industrial bad-ass to the iPhone's pussified gentility. Moreover, Android itself has that "pretty and easy is for faggots" vibe beloved by gear heads who rarely see the light of day.
I honestly think that's a fundamental error on Google, Verizon and Motorola's part; you don't get big market share by limiting yourself to young men-- and make no mistake, that's what they're shooting for.
Apple changed the market by making a smart phone aimed squarely at "normal people." I don't think the way to steal market share from them is to act like normal people are stupid or insipid, all the while making it clear that to the extent the phone you're selling doesn't do some things easily or well, it's because "easy and well" are contemptible. I think it's just a really short sighted strategy.
I won't pretend to be a long time Apple fan. I am a "pc" guy who loves my iphone and previous ipods, but when my AT&T contract runs out I am considering jumping ship to a Droid or whatever the best fit that is out at that time.... why???
- I am all about the $$$, it drives my choices
--- Same reason I am a PC guy, I would rather install a MAC OS VM on my ESX box then pay $1k+for a slower piece of hardware (compared to a $1k self built PC or insert Vendor)
- I don't wish to be controlled
--- If I "hack" a OS or install a 3rd party app I can agree to expect NO support from the OS vendor, but that doesn't mean I void my HW warranty
- I like instant innovation and implementation
--- Apple does a great job of bringing the masses what they want (even if they masses didn't know they needed it), but now I know it and give me the rest NOW
So because of ideas like this I see my next phone....
- Saving me Money (don't waste mine)
--- A phone with a webcam that has the physical capability to perform video recording but doesn't make me buy new hardware to receive the feature (3G vs 3Gs); provide it now
--- A mic that can perform voice phone calls and with a software upgrade also perform a desktop search feature, nope have to pay for that (3G vs 3Gs)
--- What Android can do to help - Install Google Voice App and use it on the carries cellular lines, save my minutes (thanks for the money) - Want turn by turn directions install Google Maps Navigation app, how much is that? Free / Apple $50+ (thanks for the money back)
-Control
--- I want tethering, I can enable it with simple xml hack, but there goes my SW/HW support.
--- What Android can do to help - Install Android Proxy App, can I still get HW support? of course (also thanks for the money savings)
-innovation (the uncontrolled Android OS versus the iphone SW/HW tested OS)
--- I absolutely agree with the authors point that the OS will be untested with the 1000's of homemade apps (and spyware, and virus, and FEAR FEAR FEAR) that can be installed on this uncontrolled "open" OS
--- What Android can do to help - You can bet that Google tests their Apps on their OS to work well, scared of the unknown?, install only Google Apps, oh and don't wait for the next model to receive a software feature that could be enabled on your current hardware
Of course then again my contract runs out around WWDC 2010, hmmm hard choices
I agree with what you're saying, but how do we do that? It's not our business to do so, and errors are present in every technical article I read, no matter where I read it.
The articles aren't full of errors, though there are some. We usually talk about them too.
It is the publishers duty to print the truth. Factual information should be referenced.
Opposing views should be supported with references. Otherwise they should be deleted or if proven incorrect, retracted.
Articles in question should be sent back to the author for comment and/or corrected accordingly. Authors who refuse to do so, should have their articles or contentious materials noted and/or deleted.
It doesn't do us readers any good if the editorial staff publishes everything that is submitted knowing that they are inaccurate to start with. We wouldn't do it in the peer reviewed scientific community, why do we have to accept it here?
It matters because Every phone sale impacts on every other phone sale.
Yet when I tried to say that all phones compete against each other I was rubbished.
Yet when I tried to say that all phones compete against each other I was rubbished.
Since it's unlikely that a consumer will have more than one phone any sale of another phone, smartphone or otherwise, is not a sale for Apple. What comment(s) of yours are you referring to?
Since it's unlikely that a consumer will have more than one phone any sale of another phone, smartphone or otherwise, is not a sale for Apple. What comment(s) of yours are you referring to?
It was a while ago, I tried to do a search but it doesn't go back far enough
It was a while ago, I tried to do a search but it doesn't go back far enough
If I'm recalling correctly (and forgive me if I'm not), you wanted to lump in dumb phones as being competitors to the iPhone-- so that, for instance, Nokia's overwhelming share of dumb phones was a telling competitive advantage over the Apple.
Which I don't think is what is being discussed here.
This is the first topic I felt the need to ever respond to and not a response to anyone else's post so far (just the main article).
I won't pretend to be a long time Apple fan. I am a "pc" guy who loves my iphone and previous ipods, but when my AT&T contract runs out I am considering jumping ship to a Droid or whatever the best fit that is out at that time.... why???
- I am all about the $$$, it drives my choices
--- Same reason I am a PC guy, I would rather install a MAC OS VM on my ESX box then pay $1k+for a slower piece of hardware (compared to a $1k self built PC or insert Vendor)
- I don't wish to be controlled
--- If I "hack" a OS or install a 3rd party app I can agree to expect NO support from the OS vendor, but that doesn't mean I void my HW warranty
- I like instant innovation and implementation
--- Apple does a great job of bringing the masses what they want (even if they masses didn't know they needed it), but now I know it and give me the rest NOW
So because of ideas like this I see my next phone....
- Saving me Money (don't waste mine)
--- A phone with a webcam that has the physical capability to perform video recording but doesn't make me buy new hardware to receive the feature (3G vs 3Gs); provide it now
--- A mic that can perform voice phone calls and with a software upgrade also perform a desktop search feature, nope have to pay for that (3G vs 3Gs)
--- What Android can do to help - Install Google Voice App and use it on the carries cellular lines, save my minutes (thanks for the money) - Want turn by turn directions install Google Maps Navigation app, how much is that? Free / Apple $50+ (thanks for the money back)
-Control
--- I want tethering, I can enable it with simple xml hack, but there goes my SW/HW support.
--- What Android can do to help - Install Android Proxy App, can I still get HW support? of course (also thanks for the money savings)
-innovation (the uncontrolled Android OS versus the iphone SW/HW tested OS)
--- I absolutely agree with the authors point that the OS will be untested with the 1000's of homemade apps (and spyware, and virus, and FEAR FEAR FEAR) that can be installed on this uncontrolled "open" OS
--- What Android can do to help - You can bet that Google tests their Apps on their OS to work well, scared of the unknown?, install only Google Apps, oh and don't wait for the next model to receive a software feature that could be enabled on your current hardware
Of course then again my contract runs out around WWDC 2010, hmmm hard choices
I'm having a hard time understanding how your solution to "Apple makes me buy a new phone to get new hardware features" is "so I'll change carriers and buy a new phone."
As far as "don't wait for the next model to receive a software feature that could be enabled on your current hardware" goes, Apple has enabled all kinds of new functionality with software updates on the original iPhone, and you have no idea what features Verizon/Motorola will or will not enable somewhere down the road on the current model Droid, or how many future iterations of Android will run on that hardware.
And if your contract runs till WWDC 2010, it's likely that a version of Google's nav app will be available for the iPhone.
Of course, you should get whatever phone you like, I just wonder at these kind of lists that seem to go so far out of their way to justify what appears to be a forgone conclusion.
If I'm recalling correctly (and forgive me if I'm not), you wanted to lump in dumb phones as being competitors to the iPhone-- so that, for instance, Nokia's overwhelming share of dumb phones was a telling competitive advantage over the Apple.
Yes that was it.
Which I don't think is what is being discussed here.
It still does matter, because...
It matters because Every phone sale impacts on every other phone sale.
Yes that was it.
It still does matter, because...
In the context of the conversation, I think it's pretty clear Mel's talking about smart phones.
Since you're a developer. give us your view.
How do you plan to accommodate the differing hardware and OS features of Android?
As the OS becomes more differentiated, with different GUI's, different hardware, and little compatibility between them, what will you do?
Believe it or not, but right now it is just ONE hardware setup for Android (despite they look very different, it is the same device from the developers perspective), while iPhone has three different ones (original + GPS + compass) so you have to face this on iPhone, too. Plus nobody knows about the plans of Apple, so if they ever introduce iPhone Nano or Tablet, you'll be in the same situation but without any previous knowledge. At least you get the info about the future direction on Android.
In the context of the conversation, I think it's pretty clear Mel's talking about smart phones.
no, what he meant is what he said, otherwise he would have said differently.