I don't see anywhere in the article where Iwata says he is "scared" I do see this however.
"Mr. Iwata says the company's hand-helds offer an experience that mobile phones?no matter how smart the phone?can't match."
Nitendo has been on the ropes before and has always come out ahead.
Nintendo is also great at doing this.
"My job is to find the potential in something that others can not see, to secretly pour our resources into them and turn them into hits before anyone else catches on,"
That last quote almost sounds like something Steve Jobs would say, funny part is when SJ says it he is being innovative yet when someone else says it they are scared.
Fear and foreboding are not the same thing. He may not be expressing fear in his statement but the foreboding is coming out like gangbusters!
Really, care to dispute some of my points then, or are they all spot on?
Also idk what parents are buyings young kids ipod touches lol, a DSlite to DSi goes from 129-159. at a 199 premium (yeah its a premium) you have to evaluate the price amongst what else is out there like idk Xbox 360 (soon to be 99 for the holidays?) and a Nintendo Wii.
When apple has world known developers making content for them like Hideo Kojima, Hironobu Sakaguchi, Shigeru Miyamoto or Clif Blezinki come talk to me again.
Also, if Apple made a console it would fail more miserably than the Sega Dreamcast did
people worship Shigeru Miyamoto but in the end he's been making the same few games for the last 30 some years with better graphics each generation
Nintendo has been in this position before. They are one of the wealthiest companies in Japan and have been out of favour with customers before. I have no doubt at this time they will find away to come back stronger than ever. Like Apple, they often redefine the market. ...
I know you like to be optimistic, but I have to disagree with this. To me this is just hopeful statements without anything to back it up. I can't see how any intelligent analysis of the current state of affairs could come up with anything other than the view that Nintendo is pretty much dead in the water right now.
Sure they *may* come up with some unknown device that can compete with the iPhone, but it would be pretty much starting from scratch for them to do so. Even if they did, all they'd have going for it is the brand and backward compatibility on some games that are already kind of old.
I don't know about the US, but in my neck of the woods the DS is already rarely seen. I mean even the design looks like something out of the early 90's with all that plastic, the crappy two screens and the little stick. I'd be embarrassed to be caught holding one in my hand.
What he is saying is there will be a dark future if they don't do something about it now. Which means they will do something about it. Do you honestly think a company like Nintendo is just going to roll over. Your dreaming.
Did you even read whad you quoted from me?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bageljoey
I have no doubt but that he has a plan to avoid this possible future
Well you guys are delusional as always but ill oblige you. Wall of text incoming but you should read it!
1. The big N's numbers dropped because the Wii sales have fallen off TREMENDOUSLY, the rate at which people were buying the systems has dropped significantly but it has the highest market share for consoles, Apple has not cut into that deep into Nintendo like AI would like you to believe, but its Nintendo not able to sustain its explosive growth (to spin this, if iPhone sales plummet because they cant keep growth they are automatically f*cked? Get real.) DS sales have dropped because they dont have content that US/Euro users want currently, simple as that.
2. Market Share and Distribution. We have to count the iphone with touch sales otherwise the platform is well behind Nintendo's 117 million DS sold as of October 09. Also where said pieces sold are a key piece. Japan is a huge player in the video game market, if you dont have this market support you will not be king simple as that (MS knows this, and they try hard as hell to appeal to the japanese market by creating content they want, and every gaming console/platform from overseas has a 100% rejection rate thus far, because japanese and western/european tastes are much different)
3. Content. Funny AI decided to bring Madden and Metal Gear into the picture. Metal Gear for the touch and metal gear: peacewalker arent even remotely in the same category when it comes to quality (google search it, you can see first hand). As it stands, you get what you pay for 10 bucks vs 40 bucks is a huge leap, I mean this is the saying amongst Apple users no?
4. Pricing. Like i said earlier the quality from 10 bucks vs 40 is a huge one. You wont see major full scale mobile games like on the DS or PSP until there is a market there to support it (blast me all you want, but people are all about the 99c apps, some may pay 4.99 for a GOOD one...this pricing disparity is a huge negative)
5. Split. You think a publisher is gonna cut Apple 30% of sales? You must be delusional, no console gets those kinds of royalty rates, none have and none will. The average GOOD game sells about 1 million copies (great games go well above that...nintendogs for example already 22 million) and at about 29 bucks a pop (more for PSP games) that is money publishers will not give up unless Apple changes this to entice developers to move over, simple as that and its not an arguable point
6. Sales. Apple is good at touting the number of games it has, but whats the best selling game? Whats the revenue/profits of these games? There is no doubt some will dabble in ipod/phone gaming...plenty of companies have well before the iphone/ipod since the cell gaming market is big, especially in japan. The way they sell these games as well is interesting, iTunes is unquestionably a success. How is Apple going to handle millions of downloads well over 1+ GB (assuming the game is decent content, not some shoddy homebrew you see a lot of currently) if they do happen to have a huge leap into the game industry? They struggle constantly all the time when a new iphone launches because their servers cant handle it...Also what about those who are old enough to buy games but dont have a credit/debit card and you have to be 18 to have an iTunes account iirc. Being able to physically purchase games is a huge advantage (well a plus), for the iphone this doesnt matter since you can get games on the go anywhere, but for the touch your nailed down to wifi to buy a game.
7. Hardware. Apple doesnt have physical buttons...they need to add a peripheral for this, you can only do so much with an accelerometer and on screen controls. I have sonic on my girls iphone, its a decent game (would hope so for how old it is) the on screen controls work but i want ALL THE SCREEN to view the game.
8. Market Health/Perception/Demographic. Everyone has been saying the handheld market is dying (of course this was before DS/PSP). Apple has a distinct advantage here. Gaming is huge no doubt, but if i walked out on campus and saw a grown ass man playing a DS im gonna probably say hes a nerd. DS has sold well because it works for a young audience as well as an older audience (in japan its nothing to see someone on a PSP/DS regardless of age, in the US its rare to see a person over 12 using a DS, and i rarely see PSPs at all, even though its for a more mature audience) Most adults will game on a true console be it Wii/PS3/360/PC.
For Apple to be successful they need to hit a wide range for their audience, so mom/dad will buy one for their kid, (and it needs to be priced accordingly...199 for a Wii/360 or a iPod Touch?)They have the image to work for older gamers so this is a huge plus for Apple, since they wont be embarrassed to be seen playing a game on their Touch/Phone.
Anyways these are things Apple needs to tackle if they are serious about taking on the game market. Analysts who are spouting Nintendos death are idiots, simple as that. Nintendo isnt going anywhere and Apple doesnt have the correct model currently to make a swath into true mobile gaming
I think you need to learn to focus on just a few points and make them good ones. Some of the stuff you say in here hints at interesting things, but most of it is just gobbldy-gook to me. Try taking up less space and concentrating on just a few simple things you want to say. A lot of this is just poorly re-staties things that the article, or others has already said.
The only point that sticks out to me is your comment about the need for physical buttons, which I completely disagree with. It's fair to say that so far the market also disagrees that this is a big issue as well.
what? Reacting to the competition instead of setting the bar?
Exactly what competitor's product was the Nintendo DS a reaction to? At the time of it's release, Nintendo was the undisputed king of portable gaming. The only thing it was a reaction to was falling profits from the previous generation Gameboy.
What was the Wii a reaction to? Nintendo was getting trampled by both Sony and Microsoft in the home console market. How does it react? Does it just put out a bigger, better version of the Sony and Microsoft offerings? No, it does its own thing and creates a different product than its competitors. In the process it reclaims its crown as king of console sales. Now both Microsoft and Sony are scrambling to add motion controls to their respective offerings.
Quote:
then they'll need something entirely new and different. Not another variant of the same thing.
God, please explain what "entirely new and different" thing Apple has EVER created? The iPhone is a smartphone variant. Or an iPod variant. Or just a generic PMP variant. In the gaming sector, the DS had already introduced touch screen gaming. Variations of the App Store already existed for cell phone applications. Microsoft (and other companies) had already introduced media extenders long before the AppleTV.
I know the iPhone is the current tech media darling, but all I see it as is the current cell phone generation's version of the Motorola Razor. It's the cell phone fashion accessory to have. But just like the Razor before it, other phones will come around to eclipse it.
If you'd take off your fanboy glasses, you'd see that it's Apple that just copies other ideas and Nintendo that truly does its own thing. Yes, Apple may make better versions of the products it copies but they're far from original ideas. Even now, people are hoping will copy its way into the netbook and e-reader markets. Apple may be innovative, but it's far from inventive.
people worship Shigeru Miyamoto but in the end he's been making the same few games for the last 30 some years with better graphics each generation
Well thats what happens when you have a franchise. Mario is undoubtedly the most well known mascot/character ever, he is extremely recognizable.
Mario and Zelda will sell systems, simple as that. Anything Miyamoto touches essentially becomes gold, if it wasnt for Miyamoto Nintendo wouldn't be what it is just like Apple is nothing with Jobs.
I love how people think Nintendo is just going to fall instantaneously and start making games on other consoles. The core of users who will undyingly support Nintendo is enough to sustain the company, seeing as how it had for almost 10 years.
Nintendo learned the hardway they needed to differentiate themselves from their competitors. They got raped by Sony twice and MS once, they arent going to compete head to head in graphics or hardware.
Right now the mindshare for gaming is PS3/360 for traditional hardcore gamers, Wii for everyone (extremely casual, even old people play these things) PSP for mature mobile gaming, and DS for younger crowd. Apple isnt even mentioned when it comes to games, only on fanblogs and thats the reality of it...hell even people who own ipod/phones dont call the games games, but call them apps lol
Really, care to dispute some of my points then, or are they all spot on?
I'm sorry I have to keep answers short am I am suffering from RSI and my hands are my livelihood.
Some of the point you make a valid, but not necessarily relevant. You seem to be basing your views on todays technology. I feel the point of most relevance is tomorrows market.
1) the question is not the one you answered but instead "now where?"
2. japan, a tricky market indeed, but is not necessary to conquer for apple to achieve significant gaming presence.
3. content. one by one the content makers will succumb. Also, aple are creating the ecosystem for their own generation of game programmers. It's like the 80's all over again, I witnessed it then as I witness it now. Hundreds of small softwares houses, turn into large significant players in a short time.
4. market share will come.
5). create a big enough market, the split is less relevant.
6. every point here is based on todays reality. Todays top selling game. Todays broadband speeds. Nothing stays still, this is a mistake i commonly see on this site. The same arguments were used in defense of nokia, and now we see the inevitable and predictable (had people not used 'todays' stats and arguments) drop in market share.
7. again, accelerometer, gps, augmented reality, we have a new era of input devices for a new era of gaming on the horizon.
I think you need to learn to focus on just a few points and make them good ones. Some of the stuff you say in here hints at interesting things, but most of it is just gobbldy-gook to me. Try taking up less space and concentrating on just a few simple things you want to say. A lot of this is just poorly re-staties things that the article, or others has already said.
The only point that sticks out to me is your comment about the need for physical buttons, which I completely disagree with. It's fair to say that so far the market also disagrees that this is a big issue as well.
I think i covered every point well enough, plus a few people neglect all the time because they are apple blind without even knowing conditions of the current gaming market.
Also, you have 3 methods of input on the Touch, Screen microphone and accelerometer, this works good for SIMPLE games, but if Apple is serious about marketing as a gaming machine its not going to work, even Nintendo has added peripherals for the Wii mote.
Also if your playing a decent game, do you want your fingers on the screen constantly taking away from viewable space? Also, lets say you put a 4 direction pad and 6 button on screen keyboard (think the PS controller but no R-L buttons) you cut that screen from 3 inches to roughly 2 now as well as your going to smear the screen constantly (heat from the screen will make your fingers sweat, its gonna happen).
If Apple could make it a serious gaming handheld more power to them but they have work to do before its viable to be just that. The fanboys here will argue im wrong but 3 input methods compared to 8+ on the DS or PSP is a huge difference and that difference will show up in how games are made.
Well you guys are delusional as always but ill oblige you. Wall of text incoming but you should read it!
Snip snip snip snip snip...
OK. First off, the "demise if Nintendo" is different from Apple overtaking or even eclipsing Nintendo.
I think there will always be a place for a dedicated gaming system and there are things that Nintendo excels at that Apple will never (I expect) touch. There will be people who compare specs and buttons and top level games and choose Nintendo now and in the future. Of this I have no doubt.
However, the interesting thing to me is the dynamics of the first portable gaming system purchase in a kid's life. I think in many, many cases, the kid gets the game as a gift with little input. Meanwhile, many parents have kids who pick up their iPhone or iTouch and have bought cheep games on their own system for their own kids.
Do you see where this is going? When that parent goes to buy a present this December, are they looking at Metal Gear? No, they are looking at their own kid playing on their iTouch. They already know the kids love the device--there is no need for comparison.
I'm sure the convergence factor comes into play as well. An Apple portable may be more expensive, but, as others have noted, it obviates the need to purchase an iPod and so on.
The real question to me is: Can the iTouch/iPhone gaming platform grow to be what these kids want to have when they buy their second or third system. If Apple can do this, Nintendo had better come up with something very compelling indeed!
The kind of "bias" (which is actually "news") because it's an APPLE FANSITE?
I'm an Apple fan too, but spreading FUD is going a bit too far.
I do game on my iPhone, but gaming is the least used aspect of my iPhone. I always carry my DS Lite with me and I game on it the most. The DS has the most diverse and more quality games than the iPhone. There are kinds of games that can't be done on the iPhone, or are unplayable with on screen buttons. There are very few iPhone OS games that have the quality, production values and immersion of NDS games.
Just recently I finished Suikoden Tierkreis, there is nothing on the iPhone OS that even approach it. The game is more than worth its $30 price tag.
The biggest lose in all of this has to be Sony and their PSP GO. But PSP suffered from a lack of continuous flow of worth-playing titles.
I'm sorry I have to keep answers short am I am suffering from RSI and my hands are my livelihood.
Some of the point you make a valid, but not necessarily relevant. You seem to be basing your views on todays technology. I feel the point of most relevance is tomorrows market.
1) the question is not the one you answered but instead "now where?"
2. japan, a tricky market indeed, but is not necessary to conquer for apple to achieve significant gaming presence.
3. content. one by one the content makers will succumb. Also, aple are creating the ecosystem for their own generation of game programmers. It's like the 80's all over again, I witnessed it then as I witness it now. Hundreds of small softwares houses, turn into large significant players in a short time.
4. market share will come.
5). create a big enough market, the split is less relevant.
6. every point here is based on todays reality. Todays top selling game. Todays broadband speeds. Nothing stays still, this is a mistake i commonly see on this site. The same arguments were used in defense of nokia, and now we see the inevitable and predictable (had people not used 'todays' stats and arguments) drop in market share.
7. again, accelerometer, gps, augmented reality, we have a new era of input devices for a new era of gaming on the horizon.
8) sorry i gotta pick up my sister...bye
1. not sure what your asking for number one lol
2. Its not required like you said to be successful, MS has proved this. If the japanese devs dont come to your platform then it leaves room for other companies (and seeing as how Nintendo has had this gridlocked for years this doesnt seem to change). Also there is an American audience for japanese games, be it Final Fantasy or Mario without great COMPELLING content people will go where it is.
3. Most of these small studios dont have what it takes to compete with big publishers unfortunately. Franchises really make people stay loyal to a platform. Unfortunately the game industry doesnt have many small studios and the ones that do make an amazing game are usually swooped up by a bigger company.
4. Market Share comes from having the content to push the device. Weak content = slow sales. Apple has an advantage here because the ipod is sold first and foremost as a PMP that can do a lot. When it comes to games first, Apple is woefully behind in content (8k+ games means squat if 7800 of them suck incredibly bad)
5. Not so, that split is too high. Take Nintendogs, 22 Million copies times 29.99 (about 660 million) 30% of that to Apple is an absurd amount. Small house devs wont see numbers this high so it doesnt bother them, but big publishers will see this as unacceptable. When it comes to that bottom line it matters.
6. Trends for the gaming market are hard to forecast but if you dont have content to push out to your consumers then your device will fail to flourish. Apple is riding the PMP wave and is using it to push into gaming. Look at it like this, if the ipod didnt have a browser/media playback how well would it stack up against the PSP/DS based on content alone?
5. Split. You think a publisher is gonna cut Apple 30% of sales? You must be delusional, no console gets those kinds of royalty rates, none have and none will. The average GOOD game sells about 1 million copies (great games go well above that...nintendogs for example already 22 million) and at about 29 bucks a pop (more for PSP games) that is money publishers will not give up unless Apple changes this to entice developers to move over, simple as that and its not an arguable point
They give up more now for sales that are harder for people to make. For a DS game, the fee to Nintendo is just part of the expense, there are also manufacturing and distribution expenses and then the customer has to go to the store to buy it. The game company makes well less than 70% of each sale. On this point they come out ahead.
And is it not troubling that EA can sell Maddon 2010 for the iPhone/touch for $9.99, but didn't even bother making a version for the DS despite their being able to sell that for $29.99? Do you consider that more people can buy a $9.99 game than can buy a $29.99 game?
And the problem Nintendo faces isn't selling to people who are willing to carry both an iPhone and a DS around, it's selling to the people who won't do that. The associated problem is keeping game developers on their platform.
I know you like to be optimistic, but I have to disagree with this. To me this is just hopeful statements without anything to back it up. I can't see how any intelligent analysis of the current state of affairs could come up with anything other than the view that Nintendo is pretty much dead in the water right now.
Sure they *may* come up with some unknown device that can compete with the iPhone, but it would be pretty much starting from scratch for them to do so. Even if they did, all they'd have going for it is the brand and backward compatibility on some games that are already kind of old.
I don't know about the US, but in my neck of the woods the DS is already rarely seen. I mean even the design looks like something out of the early 90's with all that plastic, the crappy two screens and the little stick. I'd be embarrassed to be caught holding one in my hand.
Sorry disagree with most of the comments here - Nintendo are not 'dead in the water' by any stretch of the imagination. I have an iPhone and iPod touch and whilst they are fun devices I have yet to find one single game with the depth and quality of design that games such as Animal Crossing, Super Mario and Pokemon Pearl enjoy. I know this because my kids will play with games on the iPhone until the novelty wears off but they always go back to the DS eventually.
I was contemplating purchasing an iPod Touch for each of them for Christmas but having thought about it I have decided to get them a new DSi each (they have had the DS devices for around 2 years now and they are getting a little battered). Yes it is an incremental improvement from Nintendo but they have actually doubled the speed of the Arm chip, added two cameras, redesigned the unit and OS, added extra functionality in the way of built in software, improved wireless capability, added SD card storage, AAC music ability amongst other improvements.
I am confident given the revisions above that my kids would prefer the DSi to an iPod touch at this time - this may change as they get older but right now amongst their peer groups it's the DSi that is the 'in' device - given my experience with the longevity of the DS units and games I am more than happy to invest my money on the Nintendo DSi.
people worship Shigeru Miyamoto but in the end he's been making the same few games for the last 30 some years with better graphics each generation
This statement shows your ignorance. Miyamoto designs/produces a huge variety of games, and is a strong force of innovation in gaming. There are plenty of modern examples of this innovation. Nintendogs. Wii Sports. Wii Fit. Pikmen. He doesnt just stick to the old franchises. In addition to this, the old franchises are constantly changing and innovating. When gaming made the massive shift from 2D to 3D, Miyamoto led the way with Mario 64, and perfected it with Ocarina of Time. To claim that these games are identical to the original Mario or Legend of Zelda is idiotic. Very rarely does Miyamoto create a rehash of an old game without any innovation. He is a gaming god.
Sorry disagree with most of the comments here - Nintendo are not 'dead in the water' by any stretch of the imagination. I have an iPhone and iPod touch and whilst they are fun devices I have yet to find one single game with the depth and quality of design that games such as Animal Crossing, Super Mario and Pokemon Pearl enjoy. I know this because my kids will play with games on the iPhone until the novelty wears off but they always go back to the DS eventually.
I was contemplating purchasing an iPod Touch for each of them for Christmas but having thought about it I have decided to get them a new DSi each (they have had the DS devices for around 2 years now and they are getting a little battered). Yes it is an incremental improvement from Nintendo but they have actually doubled the speed of the Arm chip, added two cameras, redesigned the unit and OS, added extra functionality in the way of built in software, improved wireless capability, added SD card storage, AAC music ability amongst other improvements.
I am confident given the revisions above that my kids would prefer the DSi to an iPod touch at this time - this may change as they get older but right now amongst their peer groups it's the DSi that is the 'in' device - given my experience with the longevity of the DS units and games I am more than happy to invest my money on the Nintendo DSi.
How many people already buying their kids an iPod will make the same conclusion? I suspect not as many who will decide to buy them an iPod touch.
As for depth of games, there is certainly nothing to preclude that. And there are certainly games on the iPhone/touch that you will never find on the DS. A game doesn't have to have elaborate depth to be fun. A developer can have an idea for a simple game and spend a month or two creating it for Apple's platform and sell it for 99 cents. Sell 20-50,000 and he's more than paid for his time, and he could sell a lot more than that if it's as fun as he thinks it'd be. The same game simply isn't feasible on the DS.
Shigeru Miyamoto is certainly a huge asset for Nintendo. But is that enough to keep a handheld platform alive?
Comments
I don't see anywhere in the article where Iwata says he is "scared" I do see this however.
"Mr. Iwata says the company's hand-helds offer an experience that mobile phones?no matter how smart the phone?can't match."
Nitendo has been on the ropes before and has always come out ahead.
Nintendo is also great at doing this.
"My job is to find the potential in something that others can not see, to secretly pour our resources into them and turn them into hits before anyone else catches on,"
That last quote almost sounds like something Steve Jobs would say, funny part is when SJ says it he is being innovative yet when someone else says it they are scared.
Fear and foreboding are not the same thing. He may not be expressing fear in his statement but the foreboding is coming out like gangbusters!
Really, care to dispute some of my points then, or are they all spot on?
Also idk what parents are buyings young kids ipod touches lol, a DSlite to DSi goes from 129-159. at a 199 premium (yeah its a premium) you have to evaluate the price amongst what else is out there like idk Xbox 360 (soon to be 99 for the holidays?) and a Nintendo Wii.
When apple has world known developers making content for them like Hideo Kojima, Hironobu Sakaguchi, Shigeru Miyamoto or Clif Blezinki come talk to me again.
Also, if Apple made a console it would fail more miserably than the Sega Dreamcast did
people worship Shigeru Miyamoto but in the end he's been making the same few games for the last 30 some years with better graphics each generation
I suggest Nintendo to add a phone to the DS and then call it: NinPho
Their fanboys would then be NinPho maniacs?
Nintendo has been in this position before. They are one of the wealthiest companies in Japan and have been out of favour with customers before. I have no doubt at this time they will find away to come back stronger than ever. Like Apple, they often redefine the market. ...
I know you like to be optimistic, but I have to disagree with this. To me this is just hopeful statements without anything to back it up. I can't see how any intelligent analysis of the current state of affairs could come up with anything other than the view that Nintendo is pretty much dead in the water right now.
Sure they *may* come up with some unknown device that can compete with the iPhone, but it would be pretty much starting from scratch for them to do so. Even if they did, all they'd have going for it is the brand and backward compatibility on some games that are already kind of old.
I don't know about the US, but in my neck of the woods the DS is already rarely seen. I mean even the design looks like something out of the early 90's with all that plastic, the crappy two screens and the little stick. I'd be embarrassed to be caught holding one in my hand.
What he is saying is there will be a dark future if they don't do something about it now. Which means they will do something about it. Do you honestly think a company like Nintendo is just going to roll over. Your dreaming.
Did you even read whad you quoted from me?
I have no doubt but that he has a plan to avoid this possible future
Emphasis added...
Well you guys are delusional as always but ill oblige you. Wall of text incoming but you should read it!
1. The big N's numbers dropped because the Wii sales have fallen off TREMENDOUSLY, the rate at which people were buying the systems has dropped significantly but it has the highest market share for consoles, Apple has not cut into that deep into Nintendo like AI would like you to believe, but its Nintendo not able to sustain its explosive growth (to spin this, if iPhone sales plummet because they cant keep growth they are automatically f*cked? Get real.) DS sales have dropped because they dont have content that US/Euro users want currently, simple as that.
2. Market Share and Distribution. We have to count the iphone with touch sales otherwise the platform is well behind Nintendo's 117 million DS sold as of October 09. Also where said pieces sold are a key piece. Japan is a huge player in the video game market, if you dont have this market support you will not be king simple as that (MS knows this, and they try hard as hell to appeal to the japanese market by creating content they want, and every gaming console/platform from overseas has a 100% rejection rate thus far, because japanese and western/european tastes are much different)
3. Content. Funny AI decided to bring Madden and Metal Gear into the picture. Metal Gear for the touch and metal gear: peacewalker arent even remotely in the same category when it comes to quality (google search it, you can see first hand). As it stands, you get what you pay for 10 bucks vs 40 bucks is a huge leap, I mean this is the saying amongst Apple users no?
4. Pricing. Like i said earlier the quality from 10 bucks vs 40 is a huge one. You wont see major full scale mobile games like on the DS or PSP until there is a market there to support it (blast me all you want, but people are all about the 99c apps, some may pay 4.99 for a GOOD one...this pricing disparity is a huge negative)
5. Split. You think a publisher is gonna cut Apple 30% of sales? You must be delusional, no console gets those kinds of royalty rates, none have and none will. The average GOOD game sells about 1 million copies (great games go well above that...nintendogs for example already 22 million) and at about 29 bucks a pop (more for PSP games) that is money publishers will not give up unless Apple changes this to entice developers to move over, simple as that and its not an arguable point
6. Sales. Apple is good at touting the number of games it has, but whats the best selling game? Whats the revenue/profits of these games? There is no doubt some will dabble in ipod/phone gaming...plenty of companies have well before the iphone/ipod since the cell gaming market is big, especially in japan. The way they sell these games as well is interesting, iTunes is unquestionably a success. How is Apple going to handle millions of downloads well over 1+ GB (assuming the game is decent content, not some shoddy homebrew you see a lot of currently) if they do happen to have a huge leap into the game industry? They struggle constantly all the time when a new iphone launches because their servers cant handle it...Also what about those who are old enough to buy games but dont have a credit/debit card and you have to be 18 to have an iTunes account iirc. Being able to physically purchase games is a huge advantage (well a plus), for the iphone this doesnt matter since you can get games on the go anywhere, but for the touch your nailed down to wifi to buy a game.
7. Hardware. Apple doesnt have physical buttons...they need to add a peripheral for this, you can only do so much with an accelerometer and on screen controls. I have sonic on my girls iphone, its a decent game (would hope so for how old it is) the on screen controls work but i want ALL THE SCREEN to view the game.
8. Market Health/Perception/Demographic. Everyone has been saying the handheld market is dying (of course this was before DS/PSP). Apple has a distinct advantage here. Gaming is huge no doubt, but if i walked out on campus and saw a grown ass man playing a DS im gonna probably say hes a nerd. DS has sold well because it works for a young audience as well as an older audience (in japan its nothing to see someone on a PSP/DS regardless of age, in the US its rare to see a person over 12 using a DS, and i rarely see PSPs at all, even though its for a more mature audience) Most adults will game on a true console be it Wii/PS3/360/PC.
For Apple to be successful they need to hit a wide range for their audience, so mom/dad will buy one for their kid, (and it needs to be priced accordingly...199 for a Wii/360 or a iPod Touch?)They have the image to work for older gamers so this is a huge plus for Apple, since they wont be embarrassed to be seen playing a game on their Touch/Phone.
Anyways these are things Apple needs to tackle if they are serious about taking on the game market. Analysts who are spouting Nintendos death are idiots, simple as that. Nintendo isnt going anywhere and Apple doesnt have the correct model currently to make a swath into true mobile gaming
I think you need to learn to focus on just a few points and make them good ones. Some of the stuff you say in here hints at interesting things, but most of it is just gobbldy-gook to me. Try taking up less space and concentrating on just a few simple things you want to say. A lot of this is just poorly re-staties things that the article, or others has already said.
The only point that sticks out to me is your comment about the need for physical buttons, which I completely disagree with. It's fair to say that so far the market also disagrees that this is a big issue as well.
what? Reacting to the competition instead of setting the bar?
Exactly what competitor's product was the Nintendo DS a reaction to? At the time of it's release, Nintendo was the undisputed king of portable gaming. The only thing it was a reaction to was falling profits from the previous generation Gameboy.
What was the Wii a reaction to? Nintendo was getting trampled by both Sony and Microsoft in the home console market. How does it react? Does it just put out a bigger, better version of the Sony and Microsoft offerings? No, it does its own thing and creates a different product than its competitors. In the process it reclaims its crown as king of console sales. Now both Microsoft and Sony are scrambling to add motion controls to their respective offerings.
then they'll need something entirely new and different. Not another variant of the same thing.
God, please explain what "entirely new and different" thing Apple has EVER created? The iPhone is a smartphone variant. Or an iPod variant. Or just a generic PMP variant. In the gaming sector, the DS had already introduced touch screen gaming. Variations of the App Store already existed for cell phone applications. Microsoft (and other companies) had already introduced media extenders long before the AppleTV.
I know the iPhone is the current tech media darling, but all I see it as is the current cell phone generation's version of the Motorola Razor. It's the cell phone fashion accessory to have. But just like the Razor before it, other phones will come around to eclipse it.
If you'd take off your fanboy glasses, you'd see that it's Apple that just copies other ideas and Nintendo that truly does its own thing. Yes, Apple may make better versions of the products it copies but they're far from original ideas. Even now, people are hoping will copy its way into the netbook and e-reader markets. Apple may be innovative, but it's far from inventive.
people worship Shigeru Miyamoto but in the end he's been making the same few games for the last 30 some years with better graphics each generation
Well thats what happens when you have a franchise. Mario is undoubtedly the most well known mascot/character ever, he is extremely recognizable.
Mario and Zelda will sell systems, simple as that. Anything Miyamoto touches essentially becomes gold, if it wasnt for Miyamoto Nintendo wouldn't be what it is just like Apple is nothing with Jobs.
I love how people think Nintendo is just going to fall instantaneously and start making games on other consoles. The core of users who will undyingly support Nintendo is enough to sustain the company, seeing as how it had for almost 10 years.
Nintendo learned the hardway they needed to differentiate themselves from their competitors. They got raped by Sony twice and MS once, they arent going to compete head to head in graphics or hardware.
Right now the mindshare for gaming is PS3/360 for traditional hardcore gamers, Wii for everyone (extremely casual, even old people play these things) PSP for mature mobile gaming, and DS for younger crowd. Apple isnt even mentioned when it comes to games, only on fanblogs and thats the reality of it...hell even people who own ipod/phones dont call the games games, but call them apps lol
The NDS is a runaway success and continues to be. I still game on my DS more than anything else.
Really, care to dispute some of my points then, or are they all spot on?
I'm sorry I have to keep answers short am I am suffering from RSI and my hands are my livelihood.
Some of the point you make a valid, but not necessarily relevant. You seem to be basing your views on todays technology. I feel the point of most relevance is tomorrows market.
1) the question is not the one you answered but instead "now where?"
2. japan, a tricky market indeed, but is not necessary to conquer for apple to achieve significant gaming presence.
3. content. one by one the content makers will succumb. Also, aple are creating the ecosystem for their own generation of game programmers. It's like the 80's all over again, I witnessed it then as I witness it now. Hundreds of small softwares houses, turn into large significant players in a short time.
4. market share will come.
5). create a big enough market, the split is less relevant.
6. every point here is based on todays reality. Todays top selling game. Todays broadband speeds. Nothing stays still, this is a mistake i commonly see on this site. The same arguments were used in defense of nokia, and now we see the inevitable and predictable (had people not used 'todays' stats and arguments) drop in market share.
7. again, accelerometer, gps, augmented reality, we have a new era of input devices for a new era of gaming on the horizon.
8) sorry i gotta pick up my sister...bye
AI showing its bias with stories like this!
The NDS is a runaway success and continues to be. I still game on my DS more than anything else.
You mean its Apple fansite bias?
The kind of "bias" (which is actually "news") because it's an APPLE FANSITE?
AI showing its bias with stories like this!
The NDS is a runaway success and continues to be
Unfortunately for Nintendo, so is the iPod and iPhone. That's the point.
I think you need to learn to focus on just a few points and make them good ones. Some of the stuff you say in here hints at interesting things, but most of it is just gobbldy-gook to me. Try taking up less space and concentrating on just a few simple things you want to say. A lot of this is just poorly re-staties things that the article, or others has already said.
The only point that sticks out to me is your comment about the need for physical buttons, which I completely disagree with. It's fair to say that so far the market also disagrees that this is a big issue as well.
I think i covered every point well enough, plus a few people neglect all the time because they are apple blind without even knowing conditions of the current gaming market.
Also, you have 3 methods of input on the Touch, Screen microphone and accelerometer, this works good for SIMPLE games, but if Apple is serious about marketing as a gaming machine its not going to work, even Nintendo has added peripherals for the Wii mote.
Also if your playing a decent game, do you want your fingers on the screen constantly taking away from viewable space? Also, lets say you put a 4 direction pad and 6 button on screen keyboard (think the PS controller but no R-L buttons) you cut that screen from 3 inches to roughly 2 now as well as your going to smear the screen constantly (heat from the screen will make your fingers sweat, its gonna happen).
If Apple could make it a serious gaming handheld more power to them but they have work to do before its viable to be just that. The fanboys here will argue im wrong but 3 input methods compared to 8+ on the DS or PSP is a huge difference and that difference will show up in how games are made.
Well you guys are delusional as always but ill oblige you. Wall of text incoming but you should read it!
Snip snip snip snip snip...
OK. First off, the "demise if Nintendo" is different from Apple overtaking or even eclipsing Nintendo.
I think there will always be a place for a dedicated gaming system and there are things that Nintendo excels at that Apple will never (I expect) touch. There will be people who compare specs and buttons and top level games and choose Nintendo now and in the future. Of this I have no doubt.
However, the interesting thing to me is the dynamics of the first portable gaming system purchase in a kid's life. I think in many, many cases, the kid gets the game as a gift with little input. Meanwhile, many parents have kids who pick up their iPhone or iTouch and have bought cheep games on their own system for their own kids.
Do you see where this is going? When that parent goes to buy a present this December, are they looking at Metal Gear? No, they are looking at their own kid playing on their iTouch. They already know the kids love the device--there is no need for comparison.
I'm sure the convergence factor comes into play as well. An Apple portable may be more expensive, but, as others have noted, it obviates the need to purchase an iPod and so on.
The real question to me is: Can the iTouch/iPhone gaming platform grow to be what these kids want to have when they buy their second or third system. If Apple can do this, Nintendo had better come up with something very compelling indeed!
You mean its Apple fansite bias?
The kind of "bias" (which is actually "news") because it's an APPLE FANSITE?
I'm an Apple fan too, but spreading FUD is going a bit too far.
I do game on my iPhone, but gaming is the least used aspect of my iPhone. I always carry my DS Lite with me and I game on it the most. The DS has the most diverse and more quality games than the iPhone. There are kinds of games that can't be done on the iPhone, or are unplayable with on screen buttons. There are very few iPhone OS games that have the quality, production values and immersion of NDS games.
Just recently I finished Suikoden Tierkreis, there is nothing on the iPhone OS that even approach it. The game is more than worth its $30 price tag.
The biggest lose in all of this has to be Sony and their PSP GO. But PSP suffered from a lack of continuous flow of worth-playing titles.
I'm sorry I have to keep answers short am I am suffering from RSI and my hands are my livelihood.
Some of the point you make a valid, but not necessarily relevant. You seem to be basing your views on todays technology. I feel the point of most relevance is tomorrows market.
1) the question is not the one you answered but instead "now where?"
2. japan, a tricky market indeed, but is not necessary to conquer for apple to achieve significant gaming presence.
3. content. one by one the content makers will succumb. Also, aple are creating the ecosystem for their own generation of game programmers. It's like the 80's all over again, I witnessed it then as I witness it now. Hundreds of small softwares houses, turn into large significant players in a short time.
4. market share will come.
5). create a big enough market, the split is less relevant.
6. every point here is based on todays reality. Todays top selling game. Todays broadband speeds. Nothing stays still, this is a mistake i commonly see on this site. The same arguments were used in defense of nokia, and now we see the inevitable and predictable (had people not used 'todays' stats and arguments) drop in market share.
7. again, accelerometer, gps, augmented reality, we have a new era of input devices for a new era of gaming on the horizon.
8) sorry i gotta pick up my sister...bye
1. not sure what your asking for number one lol
2. Its not required like you said to be successful, MS has proved this. If the japanese devs dont come to your platform then it leaves room for other companies (and seeing as how Nintendo has had this gridlocked for years this doesnt seem to change). Also there is an American audience for japanese games, be it Final Fantasy or Mario without great COMPELLING content people will go where it is.
3. Most of these small studios dont have what it takes to compete with big publishers unfortunately. Franchises really make people stay loyal to a platform. Unfortunately the game industry doesnt have many small studios and the ones that do make an amazing game are usually swooped up by a bigger company.
4. Market Share comes from having the content to push the device. Weak content = slow sales. Apple has an advantage here because the ipod is sold first and foremost as a PMP that can do a lot. When it comes to games first, Apple is woefully behind in content (8k+ games means squat if 7800 of them suck incredibly bad)
5. Not so, that split is too high. Take Nintendogs, 22 Million copies times 29.99 (about 660 million) 30% of that to Apple is an absurd amount. Small house devs wont see numbers this high so it doesnt bother them, but big publishers will see this as unacceptable. When it comes to that bottom line it matters.
6. Trends for the gaming market are hard to forecast but if you dont have content to push out to your consumers then your device will fail to flourish. Apple is riding the PMP wave and is using it to push into gaming. Look at it like this, if the ipod didnt have a browser/media playback how well would it stack up against the PSP/DS based on content alone?
7.i addressed that in a different post
8. see ya when you got back
5. Split. You think a publisher is gonna cut Apple 30% of sales? You must be delusional, no console gets those kinds of royalty rates, none have and none will. The average GOOD game sells about 1 million copies (great games go well above that...nintendogs for example already 22 million) and at about 29 bucks a pop (more for PSP games) that is money publishers will not give up unless Apple changes this to entice developers to move over, simple as that and its not an arguable point
They give up more now for sales that are harder for people to make. For a DS game, the fee to Nintendo is just part of the expense, there are also manufacturing and distribution expenses and then the customer has to go to the store to buy it. The game company makes well less than 70% of each sale. On this point they come out ahead.
And is it not troubling that EA can sell Maddon 2010 for the iPhone/touch for $9.99, but didn't even bother making a version for the DS despite their being able to sell that for $29.99? Do you consider that more people can buy a $9.99 game than can buy a $29.99 game?
And the problem Nintendo faces isn't selling to people who are willing to carry both an iPhone and a DS around, it's selling to the people who won't do that. The associated problem is keeping game developers on their platform.
I know you like to be optimistic, but I have to disagree with this. To me this is just hopeful statements without anything to back it up. I can't see how any intelligent analysis of the current state of affairs could come up with anything other than the view that Nintendo is pretty much dead in the water right now.
Sure they *may* come up with some unknown device that can compete with the iPhone, but it would be pretty much starting from scratch for them to do so. Even if they did, all they'd have going for it is the brand and backward compatibility on some games that are already kind of old.
I don't know about the US, but in my neck of the woods the DS is already rarely seen. I mean even the design looks like something out of the early 90's with all that plastic, the crappy two screens and the little stick. I'd be embarrassed to be caught holding one in my hand.
Sorry disagree with most of the comments here - Nintendo are not 'dead in the water' by any stretch of the imagination. I have an iPhone and iPod touch and whilst they are fun devices I have yet to find one single game with the depth and quality of design that games such as Animal Crossing, Super Mario and Pokemon Pearl enjoy. I know this because my kids will play with games on the iPhone until the novelty wears off but they always go back to the DS eventually.
I was contemplating purchasing an iPod Touch for each of them for Christmas but having thought about it I have decided to get them a new DSi each (they have had the DS devices for around 2 years now and they are getting a little battered). Yes it is an incremental improvement from Nintendo but they have actually doubled the speed of the Arm chip, added two cameras, redesigned the unit and OS, added extra functionality in the way of built in software, improved wireless capability, added SD card storage, AAC music ability amongst other improvements.
I am confident given the revisions above that my kids would prefer the DSi to an iPod touch at this time - this may change as they get older but right now amongst their peer groups it's the DSi that is the 'in' device - given my experience with the longevity of the DS units and games I am more than happy to invest my money on the Nintendo DSi.
Originally Posted by al_bundy
people worship Shigeru Miyamoto but in the end he's been making the same few games for the last 30 some years with better graphics each generation
This statement shows your ignorance. Miyamoto designs/produces a huge variety of games, and is a strong force of innovation in gaming. There are plenty of modern examples of this innovation. Nintendogs. Wii Sports. Wii Fit. Pikmen. He doesnt just stick to the old franchises. In addition to this, the old franchises are constantly changing and innovating. When gaming made the massive shift from 2D to 3D, Miyamoto led the way with Mario 64, and perfected it with Ocarina of Time. To claim that these games are identical to the original Mario or Legend of Zelda is idiotic. Very rarely does Miyamoto create a rehash of an old game without any innovation. He is a gaming god.
Sorry disagree with most of the comments here - Nintendo are not 'dead in the water' by any stretch of the imagination. I have an iPhone and iPod touch and whilst they are fun devices I have yet to find one single game with the depth and quality of design that games such as Animal Crossing, Super Mario and Pokemon Pearl enjoy. I know this because my kids will play with games on the iPhone until the novelty wears off but they always go back to the DS eventually.
I was contemplating purchasing an iPod Touch for each of them for Christmas but having thought about it I have decided to get them a new DSi each (they have had the DS devices for around 2 years now and they are getting a little battered). Yes it is an incremental improvement from Nintendo but they have actually doubled the speed of the Arm chip, added two cameras, redesigned the unit and OS, added extra functionality in the way of built in software, improved wireless capability, added SD card storage, AAC music ability amongst other improvements.
I am confident given the revisions above that my kids would prefer the DSi to an iPod touch at this time - this may change as they get older but right now amongst their peer groups it's the DSi that is the 'in' device - given my experience with the longevity of the DS units and games I am more than happy to invest my money on the Nintendo DSi.
How many people already buying their kids an iPod will make the same conclusion? I suspect not as many who will decide to buy them an iPod touch.
As for depth of games, there is certainly nothing to preclude that. And there are certainly games on the iPhone/touch that you will never find on the DS. A game doesn't have to have elaborate depth to be fun. A developer can have an idea for a simple game and spend a month or two creating it for Apple's platform and sell it for 99 cents. Sell 20-50,000 and he's more than paid for his time, and he could sell a lot more than that if it's as fun as he thinks it'd be. The same game simply isn't feasible on the DS.
Shigeru Miyamoto is certainly a huge asset for Nintendo. But is that enough to keep a handheld platform alive?