sounds like you are suggesting that the sales people violate the customer's right to privacy and ask if they are smokers or just give a nice "oh and if you smoke or eat or drink or . . . or . . . or . . . around your computer don't bother bringing it in cause we won't fix anything" every time.
No, I am not. You are saying that 1+1 = 3.
But guess what? That's as legal as your right to smoke.
If you smoke damage a computer, from any source, your warranty is void. Period. That is likely Apple's policy. The "safety" explanations may have been bogus. There is not enough detail in the story to know if in fact it is Apple's policy not to service smoke damaged computers.
chances are the person came into for a bar appointment cause the machine overheated, crashed, whatever. the tech opened it and found the gunk and in the course of probing found out that the person was a heavy smoker and very often smoked while at the computer. A quick poke with a pen tip or such was enough to know that the gunk and dust was everywhere and as accidental damage it was not covered by AppleCare. the tech probably then told the person they could try to clean out the gunk but it would likely require a full strip down which is not a service that they do, nor do they have somewhere that could and when the person balked and asked for a manager they were told that it wasn't a covered service and additionally cigarette tar and nicotine is listed by OSHA as a hazard and as such the company can't make an employee work on the machine and be exposed to such substances.
and the peeved customer decided to rant off to make Apple look like dicks for turning them away .
If however, Apple are refusing service because of health concerns, they should provide a replacement or a refund - the reasons for the refusal are quite irrelevant - the customer has paid for a service which they have a right to be provided with.
So should Apple supply Haz-Mat suits for the computer that come in from nuclear lab? How about biotech firms working with a dangerous virus, or should they just trust the customer that the computer is dead and send them a new one?
These are completely legal activities yet you cannot expect Apple to supply the tools/garments necessary to work on computers coming from these types of environments. If the user contaminates the computer with harmful chemicals, biohazards... then Apple is not responsible to service them _even_ if still under warrantee! And in my opinion even if the potential failure would normally be covered.
If you contaminate your computer, that's your fault not Apples!
Here is one of the worst photos. It's a nasty combination of tar, dirt, dust and mold. Anyone who thinks that warranties should cover this or thinks that a computer company should force it's employees to work on computers in such a state is delusional.
1) No computer coming in for repair, especially after any length of time, is clean and pristine inside. If being clean is a prerequisite for warranty service, most computers would be denied coverage.
2) If it really is an OSHA issue then why have we not heard of this issue before? Keep in mind every consumer electronics device could potentially be exposed to this kind of environment yet there just doesn't seem to be any examples of a TV or whatever not being repaired because of "environmental toxins cause by the user".
3) Nicotine probably has a very low precipitation rate on surfaces. The gunk in the computer is much more likely tar.
4) Aqueous liquids can instantly damage electronics. That's why spills can automatically void a warranty. By contrast, vapors don't cause failures in that way. Similarly, people don't instantly die from tobacco smoke, cheeseburgers, or a beer. However, you can certainly die almost instantly from drowning. Consequently, trying to connect this whole issue to water damage just doesn't work.
And for the story, I can understand it is bad to use your computer as ashtray and agree with Apple in such case.
But the reason "smoke is dangerous so I do not want repair your computer" sounds like a joke and very arrogant to me: isn't a company supposed to make customers happy.
I mean, it's not like they were sniffing plutonium...
I do not smoke and usually ask smokers next to me to stop; but I can understand people who smoke while using their computer: isn't tobacco supposed to reduce stress ?
just another big corporation trying to screw its customers out of costly warranties...
Ever since the inception of the warranty, companies have been finding ways any way they can to not honor them.
This is a nice and simple way of voiding your warranty even if there is no proof of anything. Next up...if you ever sneeze around your computer the warranty is null! Afterall...it might be a flu hazard...
What kind of an idiot are you? Assuming you're a smoker, you must not do much house cleaning, or you would have noticed the all the brown sticky scum covering EVERYTHING.
I can understand this is His Steveness himself was doing all the repairs.
I read a report that in the summer, you know if you've been there, the air in Los Angeles is brown and apparently worse then smoking. Not second hand smoke but smoking. So if your anti smoking and live in LA, that's pretty funny, although not really.
Anyway Apple really? Is that a US thing as try going to Europe where they smoke in the stores, trains. The US is so restricted. No wonder companies out source. Kid blows off a finger with a firecracker, instead of punishing the parents, let's outlaw it.
People need to take responsability. I remembervworking working for Capitol Records in Hollywood. They used to smoke in all the offices. If you own a company, can you legally allow smoking or has the govt. gone that Nazi?
At least in film production they still smoke. Youdon't t like it and suddenly they will find a reason to let you go.
All theses laws and tar being dangerous? I hope Apple gets sued and loses. Why extreme leftist non tech genius said eewwww with their sweaty palms said I'm not fixing that. Oh brother. This is the type of person that has eveything sqaured and to many shoes. More apple PR. Can we at
As you will see below, you are the one spouting nonsense.
Name one country where it's illegal -- it's certainly not illegal in the US, where I live. The fact that something could be, some day, illegal is not a basis to act and think like it is. A lot of the other examples I mentioned could be 'illegal' some day, but that doesn't make them illegal now. Nor should it.
You are out of your intellectual league here. Addiction can be, and is often rational. Theories of 'rational addiction' are well-understood. (See for instance, a Nobel laureate economist, Gary Becker, on this issue: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rational_addiction). Incidentally, if it was so irreversibly addictive, people would not be giving it up in droves.
Nah, I pay for your skin cancer, your obesity, your health consequences from unsafe sex, etc. -- more generally, a lot of your lifestyle choices -- through my taxes and through the social compact.
No one disagrees that smoke is poison -- I certainly didn't, and don't. Stop hyperventilating.
The fact that it might be illegal in public does not make it illegal (indeed, people don't use their Apple computers mostly in public places).
It's no wonder that some people on the Right think that people with views like yours are one step away from celebrating fascism in the name of 'social good.'
Employees at one Apple store reportedly told a customer that her computer was "beyond economical repair due to tar from cigarette smoke."
Both customers sent letters directly to Steve Job's office and both were declined service even though they had active Applecare warranties. One reader received a response advising that "nicotine is on OSHA's list of hazardous substances and Apple would not require an employee to repair anything deemed hazardous to their health."
Apple has not officially responded to any inquiries about this policy and it is unclear if it is a blanket policy or if there is a workable threshold for the amount of smoke damage present.
I'm a non smoker and always have been. But this story has to be a joke. Unless a computer has fire, smoke and water damage, how could cigarette smoking damage a computer beyond repair - OR - prevent employees from repairing the computer.
My advice to these 2 consumers: If you have a reasonable case, SUE! for breach of contract, breach of warranty, unreasonable conduct and discrimination based on lifestyle or handicap.
It?s one thing to refuse service because excessive tar actually caused the failure (I?ve seen some disgusting stained walls in smokers? homes). Maybe that can happen, hard as it is to believe.
It?s another to say that no safety gear exists which allows workers to repair the machine safely. I feel certain that a properly-equipped repair tech could work on tobacco-slimed hardware for many years without taking in any of the toxins.
I suppose Apple could say that supplying such gear (and the extra time involved) makes the repair too expensive to cover. That would be weird, though. Does Apple tell you when you buy the AppleCare plan that heavy smoking without ventilation may render your hardware impractical to repair? If not, then Apple shouldn?t be deciding AFTER the fact that it?s a problem. Smoking, sad to say, is still common, so it?s not an issue Apple should have overlooked. Apple should pay whatever it takes to repair the systems safely?or simply replace them?unless they?re going to give more fair warning about this issue.
Gimme a break. In case you hadn't noticed, Apple is taking stands on issues which are important. The health of their employees is very important. Putting the responsibility for the effects of smoking back on the smoker is NOT unreasonable. If fact, it's the RIGHT thing to do.
Those who insist on being STOOOPID and smoke like chimneys around their computer equipment should realize what damage they're doing, not only to their equipment, but to the technician who MIGHT have worked on it.
You want the warranty coverage? QUIT SMOKING! Simple.
Just so everyone is clear, this would not void the warranty on all smoker's computers, only ones that are so full of tar, that is inhibits working on it. Likely it is a judgement call on the part of the service technician. Just keep your area around your computer clean. A DJ taking a computer into a smoky bar for 4 hours is NOT going to cause a warranty to be voided (that DJ ought to consider supplemental insurance on the equipment protecting it from beer spills anyhow). They are talking about systems that look like the one we've got pictured in the comments thread here. You won't see this being enforced only because the system smells a little bit like a cigarette. I have seen computers returned to the store after being in the possession of the customer for 12 hours smell like a pack of Marlboros, those are the people that should be concerned about the long term affects on the computer.
I don't smoke, but I find your attitude quite unbelievable. Last I checked, it is a perfectly legal activity. If smoking did "nothing" for the smoker -- e.g., give them pleasure -- why would they smoke in the first place? And 'hazardous to health?' People lie around in the sun, eat too much red meat, put too much salt in their food, drive above the speed limit, drive after they've had a drink or two, have unprotected/unsafe sex, don't wash hands enough, etc etc. Would you ban all such activity?
That's a silly analogy. If so, Apple should state upfront that either that a person in that situation would not qualify for Applecare, or they should charge extra. They do neither.
I can see this going to court.
No, it's YOUR attitude that is unbelievable. Relying on "legality" as a benchmark for "right" and "wrong" is a luxury we as a society can no long afford. Apple is not waiting for a silly law to be passed to say that they're going to protect their employees' health. They're doing the right thing.
Do you have proof that these workers have no choice in the matter and are not able to quite work if they so choose? Are you implying that the Chinese factories that make Apple?s products are less healthy than the Chinese factories that make all other products in the world?
Are those iPhones in hand?
No. Chinese factories that make Apple products are more healthy. At least when compared to those factories making drywall for the US housing market, or dog food and baby formula, or lead paint in Childrens toys. Although, now that I think about it, I wonder what is truly going on in those iPhones?
Relying on "legality" as a benchmark for "right" and "wrong" is a luxury we as a society can no long afford. Apple is not waiting for a silly law to be passe....
Uh-uh. No, make that haha. So, what is Apple relying on when they say: " ....nicotine is on OSHA's list of hazardous substances and Apple would not require an employee to repair anything deemed hazardous to their health."
Comments
sounds like you are suggesting that the sales people violate the customer's right to privacy and ask if they are smokers or just give a nice "oh and if you smoke or eat or drink or . . . or . . . or . . . around your computer don't bother bringing it in cause we won't fix anything" every time.
No, I am not. You are saying that 1+1 = 3.
But guess what? That's as legal as your right to smoke.
If you smoke damage a computer, from any source, your warranty is void. Period. That is likely Apple's policy. The "safety" explanations may have been bogus. There is not enough detail in the story to know if in fact it is Apple's policy not to service smoke damaged computers.
chances are the person came into for a bar appointment cause the machine overheated, crashed, whatever. the tech opened it and found the gunk and in the course of probing found out that the person was a heavy smoker and very often smoked while at the computer. A quick poke with a pen tip or such was enough to know that the gunk and dust was everywhere and as accidental damage it was not covered by AppleCare. the tech probably then told the person they could try to clean out the gunk but it would likely require a full strip down which is not a service that they do, nor do they have somewhere that could and when the person balked and asked for a manager they were told that it wasn't a covered service and additionally cigarette tar and nicotine is listed by OSHA as a hazard and as such the company can't make an employee work on the machine and be exposed to such substances.
and the peeved customer decided to rant off to make Apple look like dicks for turning them away .
It's Apple's job to repair your computer, not clean/disinfect it. If you're a pig and don't take care of your crap it'll eventually catch up with you.
If however, Apple are refusing service because of health concerns, they should provide a replacement or a refund - the reasons for the refusal are quite irrelevant - the customer has paid for a service which they have a right to be provided with.
So should Apple supply Haz-Mat suits for the computer that come in from nuclear lab? How about biotech firms working with a dangerous virus, or should they just trust the customer that the computer is dead and send them a new one?
These are completely legal activities yet you cannot expect Apple to supply the tools/garments necessary to work on computers coming from these types of environments. If the user contaminates the computer with harmful chemicals, biohazards... then Apple is not responsible to service them _even_ if still under warrantee! And in my opinion even if the potential failure would normally be covered.
If you contaminate your computer, that's your fault not Apples!
KRR
Here is one of the worst photos. It's a nasty combination of tar, dirt, dust and mold. Anyone who thinks that warranties should cover this or thinks that a computer company should force it's employees to work on computers in such a state is delusional.
1) No computer coming in for repair, especially after any length of time, is clean and pristine inside. If being clean is a prerequisite for warranty service, most computers would be denied coverage.
2) If it really is an OSHA issue then why have we not heard of this issue before? Keep in mind every consumer electronics device could potentially be exposed to this kind of environment yet there just doesn't seem to be any examples of a TV or whatever not being repaired because of "environmental toxins cause by the user".
3) Nicotine probably has a very low precipitation rate on surfaces. The gunk in the computer is much more likely tar.
4) Aqueous liquids can instantly damage electronics. That's why spills can automatically void a warranty. By contrast, vapors don't cause failures in that way. Similarly, people don't instantly die from tobacco smoke, cheeseburgers, or a beer. However, you can certainly die almost instantly from drowning. Consequently, trying to connect this whole issue to water damage just doesn't work.
ZZzzzzz . . .
Another installment of Strange But True.
If cigarette smoke residue has rendered the unit unsafe as per regulations, then that's that.
Apple shoots people they don't like...
"Well sure... I see no problem with that..."
I'm guessing there must be SOMETHING that Apple might do that would cross the line right?!!? Killing baby puppies perhaps? Flipping the bird at nuns??
I mean Apple HAS to be in the WRONG sometime right?!?!
And for the story, I can understand it is bad to use your computer as ashtray and agree with Apple in such case.
But the reason "smoke is dangerous so I do not want repair your computer" sounds like a joke and very arrogant to me: isn't a company supposed to make customers happy.
I mean, it's not like they were sniffing plutonium...
I do not smoke and usually ask smokers next to me to stop; but I can understand people who smoke while using their computer: isn't tobacco supposed to reduce stress ?
just another big corporation trying to screw its customers out of costly warranties...
Ever since the inception of the warranty, companies have been finding ways any way they can to not honor them.
This is a nice and simple way of voiding your warranty even if there is no proof of anything. Next up...if you ever sneeze around your computer the warranty is null! Afterall...it might be a flu hazard...
What kind of an idiot are you? Assuming you're a smoker, you must not do much house cleaning, or you would have noticed the all the brown sticky scum covering EVERYTHING.
I can understand this is His Steveness himself was doing all the repairs.
I read a report that in the summer, you know if you've been there, the air in Los Angeles is brown and apparently worse then smoking. Not second hand smoke but smoking. So if your anti smoking and live in LA, that's pretty funny, although not really.
Anyway Apple really? Is that a US thing as try going to Europe where they smoke in the stores, trains. The US is so restricted. No wonder companies out source. Kid blows off a finger with a firecracker, instead of punishing the parents, let's outlaw it.
People need to take responsability. I remembervworking working for Capitol Records in Hollywood. They used to smoke in all the offices. If you own a company, can you legally allow smoking or has the govt. gone that Nazi?
At least in film production they still smoke. Youdon't t like it and suddenly they will find a reason to let you go.
All theses laws and tar being dangerous? I hope Apple gets sued and loses. Why extreme leftist non tech genius said eewwww with their sweaty palms said I'm not fixing that. Oh brother. This is the type of person that has eveything sqaured and to many shoes. More apple PR. Can we at
least see a picture?
Peace all.
This is just silly.
As you will see below, you are the one spouting nonsense.
Name one country where it's illegal -- it's certainly not illegal in the US, where I live. The fact that something could be, some day, illegal is not a basis to act and think like it is. A lot of the other examples I mentioned could be 'illegal' some day, but that doesn't make them illegal now. Nor should it.
You are out of your intellectual league here. Addiction can be, and is often rational. Theories of 'rational addiction' are well-understood. (See for instance, a Nobel laureate economist, Gary Becker, on this issue: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rational_addiction). Incidentally, if it was so irreversibly addictive, people would not be giving it up in droves.
Nah, I pay for your skin cancer, your obesity, your health consequences from unsafe sex, etc. -- more generally, a lot of your lifestyle choices -- through my taxes and through the social compact.
No one disagrees that smoke is poison -- I certainly didn't, and don't. Stop hyperventilating.
The fact that it might be illegal in public does not make it illegal (indeed, people don't use their Apple computers mostly in public places).
It's no wonder that some people on the Right think that people with views like yours are one step away from celebrating fascism in the name of 'social good.'
Employees at one Apple store reportedly told a customer that her computer was "beyond economical repair due to tar from cigarette smoke."
Both customers sent letters directly to Steve Job's office and both were declined service even though they had active Applecare warranties. One reader received a response advising that "nicotine is on OSHA's list of hazardous substances and Apple would not require an employee to repair anything deemed hazardous to their health."
Apple has not officially responded to any inquiries about this policy and it is unclear if it is a blanket policy or if there is a workable threshold for the amount of smoke damage present.
I'm a non smoker and always have been. But this story has to be a joke. Unless a computer has fire, smoke and water damage, how could cigarette smoking damage a computer beyond repair - OR - prevent employees from repairing the computer.
My advice to these 2 consumers: If you have a reasonable case, SUE! for breach of contract, breach of warranty, unreasonable conduct and discrimination based on lifestyle or handicap.
It?s one thing to refuse service because excessive tar actually caused the failure (I?ve seen some disgusting stained walls in smokers? homes). Maybe that can happen, hard as it is to believe.
It?s another to say that no safety gear exists which allows workers to repair the machine safely. I feel certain that a properly-equipped repair tech could work on tobacco-slimed hardware for many years without taking in any of the toxins.
I suppose Apple could say that supplying such gear (and the extra time involved) makes the repair too expensive to cover. That would be weird, though. Does Apple tell you when you buy the AppleCare plan that heavy smoking without ventilation may render your hardware impractical to repair? If not, then Apple shouldn?t be deciding AFTER the fact that it?s a problem. Smoking, sad to say, is still common, so it?s not an issue Apple should have overlooked. Apple should pay whatever it takes to repair the systems safely?or simply replace them?unless they?re going to give more fair warning about this issue.
Gimme a break. In case you hadn't noticed, Apple is taking stands on issues which are important. The health of their employees is very important. Putting the responsibility for the effects of smoking back on the smoker is NOT unreasonable. If fact, it's the RIGHT thing to do.
Those who insist on being STOOOPID and smoke like chimneys around their computer equipment should realize what damage they're doing, not only to their equipment, but to the technician who MIGHT have worked on it.
You want the warranty coverage? QUIT SMOKING! Simple.
I don't smoke, but I find your attitude quite unbelievable. Last I checked, it is a perfectly legal activity. If smoking did "nothing" for the smoker -- e.g., give them pleasure -- why would they smoke in the first place? And 'hazardous to health?' People lie around in the sun, eat too much red meat, put too much salt in their food, drive above the speed limit, drive after they've had a drink or two, have unprotected/unsafe sex, don't wash hands enough, etc etc. Would you ban all such activity?
That's a silly analogy. If so, Apple should state upfront that either that a person in that situation would not qualify for Applecare, or they should charge extra. They do neither.
I can see this going to court.
No, it's YOUR attitude that is unbelievable. Relying on "legality" as a benchmark for "right" and "wrong" is a luxury we as a society can no long afford. Apple is not waiting for a silly law to be passed to say that they're going to protect their employees' health. They're doing the right thing.
This from the same company that uses slave labor in a communist country.
When did Singapore become a communist country?
Do you have proof that these workers have no choice in the matter and are not able to quite work if they so choose? Are you implying that the Chinese factories that make Apple?s products are less healthy than the Chinese factories that make all other products in the world?
Are those iPhones in hand?
No. Chinese factories that make Apple products are more healthy. At least when compared to those factories making drywall for the US housing market, or dog food and baby formula, or lead paint in Childrens toys. Although, now that I think about it, I wonder what is truly going on in those iPhones?
Not healthy!
http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2007/aug/13/china
http://www.chinacsr.com/en/2007/04/0...g-food-recall/
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/16/wo...ia/16milk.html
http://www.chinalawblog.com/2009/10/..._makes_us.html
Apple shoots people they don't like...
"Well sure... I see no problem with that..."
I'm guessing there must be SOMETHING that Apple might do that would cross the line right?!!? Killing baby puppies perhaps? Flipping the bird at nuns??
I mean Apple HAS to be in the WRONG sometime right?!?!
"nicotine is on OSHA's list of hazardous substances and Apple would not require an employee to repair anything deemed hazardous to their health."
Good enough for me. I assume it was a bit more serious than yellowing of the case.
Relying on "legality" as a benchmark for "right" and "wrong" is a luxury we as a society can no long afford. Apple is not waiting for a silly law to be passe....
Uh-uh. No, make that haha. So, what is Apple relying on when they say: " ....nicotine is on OSHA's list of hazardous substances and Apple would not require an employee to repair anything deemed hazardous to their health."